Write your congressman, ask for a rewrite of the Patriot Act

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.

How much do you trust law enforcement?

I believe that law enforcement is good and beyond corruption
0
No votes
I believe that law enforcement is good but has some corrupted personel
16
43%
I believe that law enforcement is good and has no corrupted elements such as Opus Dei or other religious, nazi or terrorist groups working within
0
No votes
I believe that law enforcement has corrupted elements such as Opus Dei or other religious, nazi or terrorist groups working within
12
32%
Forget about it all law enforcement is corrupt by its nature!
9
24%
 
Total votes : 37

Write your congressman, ask for a rewrite of the Patriot Act

Postby Apollonaris Zeus » Fri Apr 29, 2005 2:24 pm

Ask for an amendment to include routine polygraph testing of all federal law enforcement agents.

In the future you will hear of major violations of the "Seek and Peek" law, but for now we need to protect ourselves from the many people that wish to see Burning Man GONE!

Call or write your congressman today.


Lets hear it!!!!!!

Seek and Peek, then Polygraph test!!!!!!!

America need to protect itself from itself!

A II Z
User avatar
Apollonaris Zeus
 
Posts: 3716
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 11:17 am

Before I tell you my story...

Postby Apollonaris Zeus » Mon May 02, 2005 5:39 pm

JUDI BARI

Do you know who she is?

It will made into a movie some day. This has got it all.

Lies, Deception, Planted Bombs, Bad Cops (no good one found yet), poisoning, freedom fighters, Nationwide investigation, Frame Ups and good citizens blown up!

Judy was an environmentalist trying to protect some ancient Redwood trees up in Mendocino.

Out of the blue, the FBI has this Bomb scene investigation clinic for local sheriffs and local law enforcement, in which, the fbi supplies the bombs. Next day, a bomb blows up in Jen Bari's car. She is almost killed along with two others. The bomb is claimed to belong to the activists, but members have been known to be pacifists. Fbi have a clinic with bombs and bomb blows up in activists car? Bomb is either stolen from FBI or FBI plants it?

Either way, this results in a search and seizure of address books and phone records. All names on the lists are investigated nationwide as terrorists.

FBI is given lists by timber, ranching and extractive industries of people they suspect to being ECO-Terrorists. It turns out to be a wish list of people they don't like and hope the fbi finds something to put them in jail.
If you wrote a letter to the editor or the national forest on an issue and you are being investigated- and of course the fbi has it fair share of sympathisers and family of the wise use industries.

Now remember that Eco-terrorists come under the patriot act. Now you have those sympathiser going into your home without your knowledge and guess what they do to you and your home. Most likely bug it or give your house keys to a logger and a miner- Judi died of cancer perhaps from them poisoning her.

Now they wait for you to do anything they can call their buddy at the local police and try to bust you on some other non-terrorist charge or they have your busness records and your finances and your balls!

Fight for Judi and the many other peaceful activists and fucking call your congressman to cut out the Seek and Peek and add polygraph testing so we can find her bomber.

Help keep Law Officials Honest!

thank you

A II Z
User avatar
Apollonaris Zeus
 
Posts: 3716
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 11:17 am

Postby Isotopia » Mon May 02, 2005 10:12 pm

Out of the blue, the FBI has this Bomb scene investigation clinic for local sheriffs and local law enforcement, in which, the fbi supplies the bombs.


Bad cops? Yep. An inept investigation? No doubt. Judi and Darrel's situation sucked. They were royally fucked over. No doubt. There was an initial mis-carriage of justice but fortunately justice is slowly wending its way through the courts. Wending its way by a lawyer who once defended me and 30 something other people I might add.. What sucks EQUALLY as much in getting the story across is when someone has an agenda - regardless of what side of the political spectrum one hails - and buttresses it with outright falsehoods, unproven accusations and innuendo.

You have no proof to corroborate what you just posted above other than an intense wish for it to be so.

And that really sucks AZ. Your zeal is worthless and pitiable when you make the claims you did - especially when such accusations have yet to be proven in any way or in any measure. They serve no one. Least of all the truth.

You should be ashamed.
User avatar
Isotopia
 
Posts: 2838
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2003 11:26 am

Postby Scubapro » Mon May 02, 2005 11:41 pm

This entire national security...yadda, yadda, yadda...stuff really bugs me. There may be good intentions, but this doesn't mean there will a good outcome. I not only want to keep the government out of my personal life, but also go back to what the powers the constitution gave it. This means only protecting my right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Everything else is an intrusion on our freedoms. Write your congress about that if you've the inclination to do so. [Stepping off my soapbox. :) ]
Scubapro
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 6:37 pm
Location: Nipomo, California

"We have met the enemy... and he is us"

Postby joel the ornery » Tue May 03, 2005 6:07 am

The Constitution of the United States of America

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.


pogo wrote:"We have met the enemy... and he is us"


I am compelled to remind anyone who reads this, "we, the people" equal "the government"... so if it is good or bad as you think it, the government is... you only have 300 million other participants, like yourself, to blame.
User avatar
joel the ornery
 
Posts: 2659
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 3:28 pm
Location: i'm the snarky one in your worst fucking nightmares
Burning Since: 1998

post script

Postby joel the ornery » Tue May 03, 2005 6:08 am

i am going to regret i ever participated in this thread.
User avatar
joel the ornery
 
Posts: 2659
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 3:28 pm
Location: i'm the snarky one in your worst fucking nightmares
Burning Since: 1998

Postby Apollonaris Zeus » Tue May 03, 2005 1:43 pm

I'm not, ashamed, but what part do you don't agree to and feel is a lie?

The Bomb's origin?

why does the fbi have bomb clinic and then one blows up in their car?

Is it the list of eco-terrorists?

That's been documented!

On my situation:
I've been visited by the Thought Police. Stole data, deleted email send by an underage minor that was coerced to lie and then admitted that she did. Whoever did that has committed a felony since it took place on federal. any law agent that knows of this information is an accomplice and a criminal.

But I think I caught one accidentally since I never thought it would be the same people I though would come to my rescue to find the people that poisoned me. I was thinking that it was my nemesis from the extractive industry so I booby-trap my abode. Later, when I was out of town, my landlord wanted the police to check my place since I had left the music on loud. The told her in no way in hell were they going in!

Law enforcement is not my nemesis, but if they are fooled or compliant to my nemesis lies then you must action against that form of prejudice.

So, Iso, that’s part of the message, sorry if you feel my story too is a lie!

A II Z
User avatar
Apollonaris Zeus
 
Posts: 3716
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 11:17 am

Postby Apollonaris Zeus » Wed May 04, 2005 6:03 pm

Today's surrender of FBI Agent Franks is just another perfect example of why we need polygraph testing.

This shit is just one group of people and yet there are many so many more.

Any leaks of confidentiality can cost lives abroad and even a broad or two here too.

Now be a good burner and write your little old congressman right now!

A II Z
User avatar
Apollonaris Zeus
 
Posts: 3716
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 11:17 am

Postby Apollonaris Zeus » Fri May 13, 2005 12:19 pm

Just for those who want to learn more about the Judy Bari Case you can start here: http://www.judibari.org/#History

There are links to other sites about FOIA and stuff about the list and further investigations involving individuals in all states!

A II Z
User avatar
Apollonaris Zeus
 
Posts: 3716
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 11:17 am

Postby Apollonaris Zeus » Wed May 18, 2005 6:51 pm

I like to post this little exerpt from the above link.


"The jury clearly found that six of the seven FBI and OPD defendants framed Judi and Darryl in an effort to crush Earth First! and chill participation in Redwood Summer."

So how many of you find it unbelievable that some of these agents are NOT involved with the Wise Use Terrorist groups operating in America. Oh, they break into environmentals homes and poison them. They get the keys from their FBI connections inflitrators.

I'm surprised! Didn't you people know about Jim Hanson the counteragent. He was an Opus Dei operative as well.

Next i'll tell you about my experiences with the DEA and a national investigation that involved agents all over America. The cost was several tens of thousands of your money wasted. Wasted by a lovers triangle involving a corrupted DEA agent abusing his power of office, a close alumni friend of mine and me- oh and a an evil woman that loved to play her men!

Write your congressman NOW!

AII
User avatar
Apollonaris Zeus
 
Posts: 3716
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 11:17 am

Try being a gun owner

Postby Scubapro » Fri May 20, 2005 12:31 am

I can bring up hundreds of horror stories associated with the BATF involving gun owners. Our government is truly getting too big for its britches. We have entire agencys overstepping their powers. Being a Libertarian politically, I believe the American people can do without 99% of them! It has been proven throughout history that governments always acquire more power over the people over time. This situation with the FBI et. al. doesn't surprise me in the least.
Scubapro
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 6:37 pm
Location: Nipomo, California

Postby Apollonaris Zeus » Sat May 21, 2005 10:34 am

Call it Verticle Management by interests beyond the intentions of our government!

If you want to cntrol the government you do top to bottom or vice a versus but only a fool would denign that it exists.

Applied for my conceal weapons permit and found out I have to take the written and shooting test again. Last time I had an arguement with my instructor on the shooting test because he claimed that I had missed one shot. On further examination of the target, two shots were exactly in the same place.

Take back your government with Polygraph tests for every law enforcement agencies!!!!!!!

AIIZ
User avatar
Apollonaris Zeus
 
Posts: 3716
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 11:17 am

I feel your pain

Postby Scubapro » Mon May 23, 2005 11:20 pm

AZ,
I feel your pain. I carry a gun for a living and have to qualify every quarter with my performance evaluation hanging in the balance. I always double-check my target after the rangemaster has graded it. No I'm not law enforcement but work at a Nuke plant as an armed officer. We have to go through more training and such bullshit than a regular SWAT team.
That said I would like to add that I have worked closely with law enforcement and have found they are a great group of people. I feel a lot of the bullshit comes from the top. Most of the guys I have collaborated with are just like the "Mom and apple pie" variety and are very honest and sincere in their work.
I think the polygraph idea is intriguing. Somehow, someway the people need to take back what our government has taken away. I do not advocate any violence. Thank God our system of government provides a way to change things peacefully if only enough of our citizens will get invovled. I feel this is what it takes. Instead, people are only too happy to let the media, talking heads, politicians tell them what reality is and never followup on what is true. This goes for both sides of the party lines. In Greece, it was the responsibility of every able voting citizen (unfortunately back then it was only men), to become involved with government affairs. It was a requirement. Although I don't advocate forcing people in this country to become involved, just think if every American citizen took such a responsible stance in government and how much greater we could become because of it. Again, I have to step off my pedestal.
Scubapro
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 6:37 pm
Location: Nipomo, California

Postby Apollonaris Zeus » Tue May 24, 2005 11:07 am

Scubapro, Its good to hear from someone like you. I agree with you. And to others, I must point out that this is not an attack on every law official out there. There are tons of great and loyal agents out there putting their life on the line to protect our rights. But there are fringe elements that have agendas other than our constitution. There are some that are guided by their religion and would put their god before the USA.

I beleive that most law enforcement would line up and be polygraphed tested much like the many Americans that would allow "sneek and peek" investigations into their own home because they have nothing to hide.

so I invite those agents of the law to come into this discussion such as scubapro did and give us their opinion.

Remember, I'm not out to get anyone, but to improve the security of our country not only from outside forces, but within for they are there.

AIIZ
User avatar
Apollonaris Zeus
 
Posts: 3716
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 11:17 am

Postby Apollonaris Zeus » Tue May 24, 2005 12:03 pm

Iso said, guote, "You have no proof to corroborate what you just posted above other than an intense wish for it to be so.

And that really sucks AZ. Your zeal is worthless and pitiable when you make the claims you did - especially when such accusations have yet to be proven in any way or in any measure. They serve no one. Least of all the truth.

You should be ashamed." unguote.

I will let Judy speak for herself and me:

Judi Ban Interview 16: The FBI's Single-Minded Pursuit
Albion Monitor / Features

The FBI's Single-Minded Pursuit

[... We responded with absolute principle: we didn't go away; we didn't fail to demonstrate; we stood up, and we stood up with non-violence; and
we stood up without hatred ... ]
The FBI went around and interviewed local police. And they said things like: "Name the prominent environmentalists in your town"

JUDI: That was an incredible accomplishment, and maybe it's going to take us a lot of years to remember that we did this. Because I don't think that our community even remembers that we did this.
We may break into packs or wrestle like young wolves at times, but the moral fiber and the bravery within the environmental community makes me cry with joy as often, like watching an epic movie — and then, there is the moral fiber of the /•'#/. What else have you learned about the FBI's bogus investigation?
JUDI: Simultaneous to snooping through the Letters files and compiling names, the FBI went around and interviewed local police. And they said things like: "Name the prominent environmentalists in your town."
The police - and 1 don't think they were doing this to be hostile: an act of terror had been committed in their community, and they were the police and they were trying to help solve the crime. So they just named: Ellen Droll, Walter Camp. The Ukiah police named Norman de Vail, Alexander Cockburn and David Colfax! They just gave out names! And the FBI compiled these lists of names.

Then they went and interviewed the timber executives -- they didn't interview the loggers! They went through the phone book and called up each timber company, but only the big ones responded — and Harwood, and some of the others who knew us. And they said:

"Tell us anything you know about the environmentalists. Give us names of environmentalists."

MAXXAM submitted 50 names of people.

They said: "These are Earth First! trespassers. Well, they were never arrested or prosecuted. But1 They are Earth First! trespassers anyway." Fifty names of people. They gave them leaflets — Hemp Liberation Day. Come to the Hemp Rally. Come to the Air Pollution Hearing. Things that were so innocent ifs ridiculous. And all these materials were turned into
the FBI and compiled.

So in this method they compiled 150 names of local activists — interviewing the newspapers, the police, the timber executives, and the members of the Wise Use Movement (they interviewed Candy Boak and Paula Langager.) And in the course of these interviews, for example, Paula Langager says: "Well, Dave Cruzan from the Wise Use Advocate wrote the fake press releases."

The FBI never interviews Dave Cruzan. And they continue to treat the fake presses releases as if they were real, even after they get this confession! It's a very one-sided investigation to put it mildly.

Another example: the sheriffs, both of Mendocino and Humboldt, came
sided up with what they called a list of 'Core Group Capable of Violence.'
investigation to Well, here we are: we've never committed any violence before; we're in the act of standing up to lethal force with non-violence; and we've not put it mildly committed any violence since. They've ignored all of the documented attacks on us by timber people. They're not defining any timber people capable of violence. But they come up with this list -- given with no evidence what-so-ever -- of "a core group capable of violence. "It includes Darryl. It includes Greg King. It includes Lisa Henry People who are absolutely innocent.
Then the FBI says of this group in their memos - and they won't reveal to me who all of them are: "We have discovered that there is a core group whose association with each other includes getting arrested together," — as if they have never heard of non-violent civil disobedience — "so in order to pursue this case further, we are going to have to compile and monitor the phone calls of this core group." There are fourteen people, it says in the memo, whose phone calls are going to be monitored.
Strangely, they only do our out-of-state calls. Now every incident in this bombing case takes place in California, but they never monitor our California calls — at least it's not in the files. They get this list, and from April to May 1990, the two months around the bombing, these fourteen people, who we don't know who they are, they compile a list of all of their out-of-state phone calls. They had a computer sort these phone calls by area code, so they came up with a list of 634 people across the country who had received a phone call from somebody in this "core group capable of violence" who has never committed any violence.

They then send these numbers out to all the FBI offices around the country, and they ask them to send back information And so for the next year and a half, information trickles back in from all over the country. And on these 634 people, whose sole crime is receiving a phone call from an Earth First!er, they come up with name, address, place of employment, criminal record if any, and political associates.

It's like the 'red scare' all People who let me stay at their house overnight were ousted by CAMP the next day. The FBI came and talked with somebody's employer who let me stay at their house. There was a very concerted effort to make it hard for me to move back here over. But it's the 'green scare' now. Here's one case: agents ask the phone company, and the phone company says: "This phone number belongs to somebody called Louisa Hemacheck. But besides this phone number, she also has another phone that she calls the 'Green Line1. Based on that information only, the FBI then interviews the sheriff. They say: "What do you know about Louisa Hemacheck?"
"Oh, she's a hippie and an environmentalist." Environmental activity is treated as criminal on its face. In this method, they came up with the names of close to 800 Earth First!ers, environmentalists and our associates... // sounds like Germany in the '30s!
JUDI: Yes. And it's no crimes committed. No leads to lead to the bomber.
Was anybody from L-P present at bomb school, Judi? The detonation actions took place at an L-P clearcut after all.
JIJDI: We asked Frank Doyle that question in the depositions, and he said, Frank Wigginton of L-P security would have been there to secure the company's interests. And he said he remembers Frank Wigginton at bomb schools, but he doesn't remember what years - which is how they get out of answering a question straight on. I want to add one more outrageous thing that happened in the course of this investigation which I think shows there is some level of connection between the FBI and local police and timber. I said that all the death threats came during one time period before the bombing, except one. When I tried to move back to the community, they tried real hard to keep me out. It was very scary. I was terrified. I went into hiding when I got out of the hospital 1 stayed with some Quakers in the middle of nowhere, because I was too scared to come home. Meanwhile, the Building Department busted my ex-husband's, my landlord's house, and my house. The Child Protective Department was asking around about my children. People who let me stay at their house overnight were busted by CAMP the next day. The FBI came and talked with somebody's employer who let me stay at their house. There was a very concerted effort to make it hard for me to move back here. I persisted, and the scariest part was just as I was getting ready to come back, a death threat was posted both on my landlord's mailbox and downtown in Willits, that gave the exact directions to my house -- which it called my "Hideout." The notice said: "Bari get out of Willits." and it offered a case of Coors "to the stud who bums (me) out", and a "six pack for every hippie shack you take out on (my) road."
That was very scary, and the whole neighborhood had a meeting. Even the timber people in this neighborhood came to the meeting. 1 came, and Bruce Anderson came with me. And my neighbors said: "You have a right to live anywhere you want to." The whole neighborhood stuck up for my right to live here, despite the threat to them. And Karen Smith, Walter Smith's wife, wrote a letter to the Willits News publicly offering me and my children to live with them, for protection -- after which, they were harassed. So the community didn't let them drive me out, and I have to express my appreciation to the community for that. But I was very terrified by this threat. 1 never knew where it came from.
Then I got my FBI files last year — through the [discovery] process -- and in my FBI files, there is a notice. It is from one of the FBI case agents, and it's a list of things to do: "Intelligence has revealed that Judi Ban has a hideout northeast of Willits where she lives without electricity that she is trading labor for the use of." It goes on to say that Stockton Buck, the FBI agent, is instructed, with Steve Satterwhite (now don't forget, Satterwhite is the Mendocino county deputy who didn't have the manpower to investigate the death threats) to find my "hideout" — and that's their word. So, I'm supposedly not being charged with any crime at this point, and yet, Steve Satterwhite has time to find my hippie shack!
So, they conduct this investigation. (They actually do; I have evidence of it in my file.) They look through the land titles trying to find out who my landlord is, and they investigate the propane companies to see if they can find who delivers propane here to try to find out where my hideout is. Then, in the middle of August, they record in the FBI files, that the Willits News has received a phone call from somebody who gives exact directions to my house (and it has certain wording for the directions.)
One week after this is recorded in the FBI files, 1 get this death threat, and the death threat says: "The hippies up String Creek have built a hide out (same word as from the FBI files) for Earth First! terrorist Judi Bari." (The tip to the Willits News said: "They're building a national headquarters for Earth First!")
"We don't want national headquarters for Earth First! in Willits," says the death threat. Same, exact language. And then the directions it gave to my house and the death threat are identical to the directions recorded in the FBI file.
Are you saying the FBI was involved with this death threat? Sgt. Satterwhite, who by the way, in preparation for Redwood Summer, was giving self-defense with small arms workshops to gyppo logging groups
jusi before and after the bombing.
JUDI: I'm saying they are both possibly involved. So what we did with this threat - the Mendocino sheriffs weren't very helpful -- we turned it over to the Willits police, which were the only police force that ever helped me. But the Willits police had to turn it over to the county, because I live in an unincorporated area, and the county never did anything with the death threat Including, they never turned it over to the FBI, or the FBI never admits to have received it.
So here's the FBI conducting this big bombing investigation, finding my "hideout", and they don't know I've received a death threat with the exact same wording as they've used the week before'71 find that very hard to believe. I don't know what this means. 1 don't know if this means Satterwhite or Stockton Buck or either of them was involved in the last death threat. It's certainly hard to believe that they didn't know about it. The Willits Police says they told them about it.
language that occurs in the FBI files occurs in the Lord's Avenger's letter, in tips to the Willits News, in death threats to you. You've spent the past four years uncovering these buried links. Finally, what do you think they mean7
JUDI: It raises very serious questions about FBI prior knowledge, about FBI involvement, about police involvement. All of these questions are raised. We don't have the answers yet. 1 hope we can get them.

Read the Entire Judi Ran interview @ C New Settler Interview

Can you handle the truth now, ISO!!!!


AIIZ
User avatar
Apollonaris Zeus
 
Posts: 3716
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 11:17 am

Postby blyslv » Tue May 24, 2005 2:32 pm

To anybody who's made it this far just a clarification. It's your Senators you need to contact abouit the Patriot Act rewrite. And a phone call is just as effective.
Fight for the fifth freedom!
blyslv
 
Posts: 1562
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 2:22 pm
Location: Fanta Se NM

Postby Apollonaris Zeus » Wed May 25, 2005 12:35 pm

Thanks BlySly for the clarification!

Call FBI headquarters today to request records on Religious Demographics distribution of agents.

they didn't have an answer if those records exisit. I can't think in this day and age of TERRORISM that information isn't being recorded. I think they have them but I think they are worried about Equal Employment discrimination!

AIIZ
User avatar
Apollonaris Zeus
 
Posts: 3716
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 11:17 am

Rumors of the end of the world are highly exaggerated

Postby joel the ornery » Wed May 25, 2005 2:01 pm

The Sky Is Falling (a Bulrovian fairy tale adapted by Rick Walton )

Once upon a time there was a tiny, tiny chicken named Chicken Little. One day Chicken Little was scratching in the garden when something fell on her head.

"Oh," cried Chicken Little, "the sky is falling. I must go tell the king."

So Chicken Little ran and ran, and she met Henny Penny.

"Where do you travel so fast, Chicken Little?" asked Henny Penny.

"Ah, Henny Penny," said Chicken Little, "the sky is falling, and I must go and tell the king."

"How do you know that the sky is falling, Chicken Little?" asked Henny Penny.

"I saw it with my eyes, I heard it with my ears, and a bit of it fell on my head," said Chicken Little.

"I will go with you to the king," said Henny Penny.

So they ran along together, and they met Ducky Daddles.

"Where do you travel so fast?" asked Ducky Daddles.

"Ah, Ducky Daddles," said Chicken Little, "the sky is falling, and Henny Penny and I go to tell the king."

"How do you know that the sky is falling, Chicken Little?" asked Ducky Daddles.

"I saw it with my eyes, I heard it with my ears, and a bit of it fell on my head," said Chicken Little.

"I will go with you to the king," said Ducky Daddles.

So they ran along together, and they met Goosey Loosey.

"Where do you travel so fast, Chicken Little?" asked Goosey Loosey.

"Ah, Goosey Loosey," said Chicken Little, "the sky is falling. Henny Penny and Ducky Daddles and I go to tell the king."

"How do you know that the sky is falling, Chicken Little?" asked Goosey Loosey.

"I saw it with my eyes, I heard it with my ears, and a bit of it fell on my head," said Chicken Little.

"I will go with you," said Goosey Loosey.

So they ran along together, and they met Turkey Lurkey.

"Where do you travel so fast, Chicken Little?" asked Turkey Lurkey.

"Ah, Turkey Lurkey," said Chicken Little, "the sky is falling, and Henny Penny and Ducky Daddles and Goosey Loosey and I go to tell the king."

"How do you know that the sky is falling?" asked Turkey Lurkey.

"I saw it with my eyes, I heard it with my ears, and a bit of it fell on my head," said Chicken Little.

"I will go with you to the king," said Turkey Lurkey.

So they ran along together, and they met Foxy Loxy.

"Where do you travel so fast, Chicken Little?" asked Foxy Loxy.

"Ah, Foxy Loxy," said Chicken Little, "the sky is falling, and we go to tell the king."

"Do you know the way to the king's house?" asked Foxy Loxy.

"No," said Chicken Little.

"No," said Henny Penny.

"No," said Ducky Daddles.

"No," said Goosey Loosey.

"No," said Turkey Lurkey.

"Then come with me and I will show you," said Foxy Loxy.

And just as he was about to lead them into his den to eat them...

...the sky fell on him.

"Oh dear," said Chicken Little.

"We're too late," said Henny Penny.

"Poor Foxy Loxy," said Ducky Daddles.

"No sense in going to the king," said Goosey Loosey.

"Nothing to do now but go home," said Turkey Lurkey.

And they did.

or


The Sky is Falling
(so worried the man from Qi.)


Once there was a man from Qi, who was worried about falling sky and sinking earch.
A friend, worried about his worrying, came to calm him.

He said to the man, "The sky is all air, nothing but air. As you inhale and exhale, and breathe air into the sky all day long, there is no need to worry about falling sky."

The man then asked, "So the sky is just air. Then what about the Sun, the Moon and the stars falling from the sky?"

He replied, "These are only twinkling objects of air. Even if they fall, they won't hurt you."

The man continued, "What about sinking earth?"

He replied, "The earch is made up of solid blocks of earth, which filled up all spaces. There are no empty spaces. If you stamp you feet on the ground all day, the earth will not sink."

Hearing this, the man is very happy. The friend is very happy.

What is the moral of this story?
The man is worried needlessly. His friend calmed him with faulty explanations. Should you worry?
User avatar
joel the ornery
 
Posts: 2659
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 3:28 pm
Location: i'm the snarky one in your worst fucking nightmares
Burning Since: 1998

Postby Apollonaris Zeus » Fri May 27, 2005 11:26 am

Fuck you Joel!

Take your bullshit and mindless additions somewhere else.

You have no original opinion what so ever!

AIIZ
User avatar
Apollonaris Zeus
 
Posts: 3716
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 11:17 am

Postby Apollonaris Zeus » Fri May 27, 2005 11:27 am

Iso said, guote, "You have no proof to corroborate what you just posted above other than an intense wish for it to be so.

And that really sucks AZ. Your zeal is worthless and pitiable when you make the claims you did - especially when such accusations have yet to be proven in any way or in any measure. They serve no one. Least of all the truth.

You should be ashamed." unguote.

I will let Judy speak for herself and me:

Judi Ban Interview 16: The FBI's Single-Minded Pursuit
Albion Monitor / Features

The FBI's Single-Minded Pursuit

[... We responded with absolute principle: we didn't go away; we didn't fail to demonstrate; we stood up, and we stood up with non-violence; and
we stood up without hatred ... ]
The FBI went around and interviewed local police. And they said things like: "Name the prominent environmentalists in your town"

JUDI: That was an incredible accomplishment, and maybe it's going to take us a lot of years to remember that we did this. Because I don't think that our community even remembers that we did this.
We may break into packs or wrestle like young wolves at times, but the moral fiber and the bravery within the environmental community makes me cry with joy as often, like watching an epic movie — and then, there is the moral fiber of the /•'#/. What else have you learned about the FBI's bogus investigation?
JUDI: Simultaneous to snooping through the Letters files and compiling names, the FBI went around and interviewed local police. And they said things like: "Name the prominent environmentalists in your town."
The police - and 1 don't think they were doing this to be hostile: an act of terror had been committed in their community, and they were the police and they were trying to help solve the crime. So they just named: Ellen Droll, Walter Camp. The Ukiah police named Norman de Vail, Alexander Cockburn and David Colfax! They just gave out names! And the FBI compiled these lists of names.

Then they went and interviewed the timber executives -- they didn't interview the loggers! They went through the phone book and called up each timber company, but only the big ones responded — and Harwood, and some of the others who knew us. And they said:

"Tell us anything you know about the environmentalists. Give us names of environmentalists."

MAXXAM submitted 50 names of people.

They said: "These are Earth First! trespassers. Well, they were never arrested or prosecuted. But1 They are Earth First! trespassers anyway." Fifty names of people. They gave them leaflets — Hemp Liberation Day. Come to the Hemp Rally. Come to the Air Pollution Hearing. Things that were so innocent ifs ridiculous. And all these materials were turned into
the FBI and compiled.

So in this method they compiled 150 names of local activists — interviewing the newspapers, the police, the timber executives, and the members of the Wise Use Movement (they interviewed Candy Boak and Paula Langager.) And in the course of these interviews, for example, Paula Langager says: "Well, Dave Cruzan from the Wise Use Advocate wrote the fake press releases."

The FBI never interviews Dave Cruzan. And they continue to treat the fake presses releases as if they were real, even after they get this confession! It's a very one-sided investigation to put it mildly.

Another example: the sheriffs, both of Mendocino and Humboldt, came
sided up with what they called a list of 'Core Group Capable of Violence.'
investigation to Well, here we are: we've never committed any violence before; we're in the act of standing up to lethal force with non-violence; and we've not put it mildly committed any violence since. They've ignored all of the documented attacks on us by timber people. They're not defining any timber people capable of violence. But they come up with this list -- given with no evidence what-so-ever -- of "a core group capable of violence. "It includes Darryl. It includes Greg King. It includes Lisa Henry People who are absolutely innocent.
Then the FBI says of this group in their memos - and they won't reveal to me who all of them are: "We have discovered that there is a core group whose association with each other includes getting arrested together," — as if they have never heard of non-violent civil disobedience — "so in order to pursue this case further, we are going to have to compile and monitor the phone calls of this core group." There are fourteen people, it says in the memo, whose phone calls are going to be monitored.
Strangely, they only do our out-of-state calls. Now every incident in this bombing case takes place in California, but they never monitor our California calls — at least it's not in the files. They get this list, and from April to May 1990, the two months around the bombing, these fourteen people, who we don't know who they are, they compile a list of all of their out-of-state phone calls. They had a computer sort these phone calls by area code, so they came up with a list of 634 people across the country who had received a phone call from somebody in this "core group capable of violence" who has never committed any violence.

They then send these numbers out to all the FBI offices around the country, and they ask them to send back information And so for the next year and a half, information trickles back in from all over the country. And on these 634 people, whose sole crime is receiving a phone call from an Earth First!er, they come up with name, address, place of employment, criminal record if any, and political associates.

It's like the 'red scare' all People who let me stay at their house overnight were ousted by CAMP the next day. The FBI came and talked with somebody's employer who let me stay at their house. There was a very concerted effort to make it hard for me to move back here over. But it's the 'green scare' now. Here's one case: agents ask the phone company, and the phone company says: "This phone number belongs to somebody called Louisa Hemacheck. But besides this phone number, she also has another phone that she calls the 'Green Line1. Based on that information only, the FBI then interviews the sheriff. They say: "What do you know about Louisa Hemacheck?"
"Oh, she's a hippie and an environmentalist." Environmental activity is treated as criminal on its face. In this method, they came up with the names of close to 800 Earth First!ers, environmentalists and our associates... // sounds like Germany in the '30s!
JUDI: Yes. And it's no crimes committed. No leads to lead to the bomber.
Was anybody from L-P present at bomb school, Judi? The detonation actions took place at an L-P clearcut after all.
JIJDI: We asked Frank Doyle that question in the depositions, and he said, Frank Wigginton of L-P security would have been there to secure the company's interests. And he said he remembers Frank Wigginton at bomb schools, but he doesn't remember what years - which is how they get out of answering a question straight on. I want to add one more outrageous thing that happened in the course of this investigation which I think shows there is some level of connection between the FBI and local police and timber. I said that all the death threats came during one time period before the bombing, except one. When I tried to move back to the community, they tried real hard to keep me out. It was very scary. I was terrified. I went into hiding when I got out of the hospital 1 stayed with some Quakers in the middle of nowhere, because I was too scared to come home. Meanwhile, the Building Department busted my ex-husband's, my landlord's house, and my house. The Child Protective Department was asking around about my children. People who let me stay at their house overnight were busted by CAMP the next day. The FBI came and talked with somebody's employer who let me stay at their house. There was a very concerted effort to make it hard for me to move back here. I persisted, and the scariest part was just as I was getting ready to come back, a death threat was posted both on my landlord's mailbox and downtown in Willits, that gave the exact directions to my house -- which it called my "Hideout." The notice said: "Bari get out of Willits." and it offered a case of Coors "to the stud who bums (me) out", and a "six pack for every hippie shack you take out on (my) road."
That was very scary, and the whole neighborhood had a meeting. Even the timber people in this neighborhood came to the meeting. 1 came, and Bruce Anderson came with me. And my neighbors said: "You have a right to live anywhere you want to." The whole neighborhood stuck up for my right to live here, despite the threat to them. And Karen Smith, Walter Smith's wife, wrote a letter to the Willits News publicly offering me and my children to live with them, for protection -- after which, they were harassed. So the community didn't let them drive me out, and I have to express my appreciation to the community for that. But I was very terrified by this threat. 1 never knew where it came from.
Then I got my FBI files last year — through the [discovery] process -- and in my FBI files, there is a notice. It is from one of the FBI case agents, and it's a list of things to do: "Intelligence has revealed that Judi Ban has a hideout northeast of Willits where she lives without electricity that she is trading labor for the use of." It goes on to say that Stockton Buck, the FBI agent, is instructed, with Steve Satterwhite (now don't forget, Satterwhite is the Mendocino county deputy who didn't have the manpower to investigate the death threats) to find my "hideout" — and that's their word. So, I'm supposedly not being charged with any crime at this point, and yet, Steve Satterwhite has time to find my hippie shack!
So, they conduct this investigation. (They actually do; I have evidence of it in my file.) They look through the land titles trying to find out who my landlord is, and they investigate the propane companies to see if they can find who delivers propane here to try to find out where my hideout is. Then, in the middle of August, they record in the FBI files, that the Willits News has received a phone call from somebody who gives exact directions to my house (and it has certain wording for the directions.)
One week after this is recorded in the FBI files, 1 get this death threat, and the death threat says: "The hippies up String Creek have built a hide out (same word as from the FBI files) for Earth First! terrorist Judi Bari." (The tip to the Willits News said: "They're building a national headquarters for Earth First!")
"We don't want national headquarters for Earth First! in Willits," says the death threat. Same, exact language. And then the directions it gave to my house and the death threat are identical to the directions recorded in the FBI file.
Are you saying the FBI was involved with this death threat? Sgt. Satterwhite, who by the way, in preparation for Redwood Summer, was giving self-defense with small arms workshops to gyppo logging groups
jusi before and after the bombing.
JUDI: I'm saying they are both possibly involved. So what we did with this threat - the Mendocino sheriffs weren't very helpful -- we turned it over to the Willits police, which were the only police force that ever helped me. But the Willits police had to turn it over to the county, because I live in an unincorporated area, and the county never did anything with the death threat Including, they never turned it over to the FBI, or the FBI never admits to have received it.
So here's the FBI conducting this big bombing investigation, finding my "hideout", and they don't know I've received a death threat with the exact same wording as they've used the week before'71 find that very hard to believe. I don't know what this means. 1 don't know if this means Satterwhite or Stockton Buck or either of them was involved in the last death threat. It's certainly hard to believe that they didn't know about it. The Willits Police says they told them about it.
language that occurs in the FBI files occurs in the Lord's Avenger's letter, in tips to the Willits News, in death threats to you. You've spent the past four years uncovering these buried links. Finally, what do you think they mean7
JUDI: It raises very serious questions about FBI prior knowledge, about FBI involvement, about police involvement. All of these questions are raised. We don't have the answers yet. 1 hope we can get them.

Read the Entire Judi Ran interview @ C New Settler Interview

Can you handle the truth now, ISO!!!!


AIIZ
User avatar
Apollonaris Zeus
 
Posts: 3716
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 11:17 am

Postby Apollonaris Zeus » Fri May 27, 2005 11:28 am

Iso said, guote, "You have no proof to corroborate what you just posted above other than an intense wish for it to be so.

And that really sucks AZ. Your zeal is worthless and pitiable when you make the claims you did - especially when such accusations have yet to be proven in any way or in any measure. They serve no one. Least of all the truth.

You should be ashamed." unguote.

I will let Judy speak for herself and me:

Judi Ban Interview 16: The FBI's Single-Minded Pursuit
Albion Monitor / Features

The FBI's Single-Minded Pursuit

[... We responded with absolute principle: we didn't go away; we didn't fail to demonstrate; we stood up, and we stood up with non-violence; and
we stood up without hatred ... ]
The FBI went around and interviewed local police. And they said things like: "Name the prominent environmentalists in your town"

JUDI: That was an incredible accomplishment, and maybe it's going to take us a lot of years to remember that we did this. Because I don't think that our community even remembers that we did this.
We may break into packs or wrestle like young wolves at times, but the moral fiber and the bravery within the environmental community makes me cry with joy as often, like watching an epic movie — and then, there is the moral fiber of the /•'#/. What else have you learned about the FBI's bogus investigation?
JUDI: Simultaneous to snooping through the Letters files and compiling names, the FBI went around and interviewed local police. And they said things like: "Name the prominent environmentalists in your town."
The police - and 1 don't think they were doing this to be hostile: an act of terror had been committed in their community, and they were the police and they were trying to help solve the crime. So they just named: Ellen Droll, Walter Camp. The Ukiah police named Norman de Vail, Alexander Cockburn and David Colfax! They just gave out names! And the FBI compiled these lists of names.

Then they went and interviewed the timber executives -- they didn't interview the loggers! They went through the phone book and called up each timber company, but only the big ones responded — and Harwood, and some of the others who knew us. And they said:

"Tell us anything you know about the environmentalists. Give us names of environmentalists."

MAXXAM submitted 50 names of people.

They said: "These are Earth First! trespassers. Well, they were never arrested or prosecuted. But1 They are Earth First! trespassers anyway." Fifty names of people. They gave them leaflets — Hemp Liberation Day. Come to the Hemp Rally. Come to the Air Pollution Hearing. Things that were so innocent ifs ridiculous. And all these materials were turned into
the FBI and compiled.

So in this method they compiled 150 names of local activists — interviewing the newspapers, the police, the timber executives, and the members of the Wise Use Movement (they interviewed Candy Boak and Paula Langager.) And in the course of these interviews, for example, Paula Langager says: "Well, Dave Cruzan from the Wise Use Advocate wrote the fake press releases."

The FBI never interviews Dave Cruzan. And they continue to treat the fake presses releases as if they were real, even after they get this confession! It's a very one-sided investigation to put it mildly.

Another example: the sheriffs, both of Mendocino and Humboldt, came
sided up with what they called a list of 'Core Group Capable of Violence.'
investigation to Well, here we are: we've never committed any violence before; we're in the act of standing up to lethal force with non-violence; and we've not put it mildly committed any violence since. They've ignored all of the documented attacks on us by timber people. They're not defining any timber people capable of violence. But they come up with this list -- given with no evidence what-so-ever -- of "a core group capable of violence. "It includes Darryl. It includes Greg King. It includes Lisa Henry People who are absolutely innocent.
Then the FBI says of this group in their memos - and they won't reveal to me who all of them are: "We have discovered that there is a core group whose association with each other includes getting arrested together," — as if they have never heard of non-violent civil disobedience — "so in order to pursue this case further, we are going to have to compile and monitor the phone calls of this core group." There are fourteen people, it says in the memo, whose phone calls are going to be monitored.
Strangely, they only do our out-of-state calls. Now every incident in this bombing case takes place in California, but they never monitor our California calls — at least it's not in the files. They get this list, and from April to May 1990, the two months around the bombing, these fourteen people, who we don't know who they are, they compile a list of all of their out-of-state phone calls. They had a computer sort these phone calls by area code, so they came up with a list of 634 people across the country who had received a phone call from somebody in this "core group capable of violence" who has never committed any violence.

They then send these numbers out to all the FBI offices around the country, and they ask them to send back information And so for the next year and a half, information trickles back in from all over the country. And on these 634 people, whose sole crime is receiving a phone call from an Earth First!er, they come up with name, address, place of employment, criminal record if any, and political associates.

It's like the 'red scare' all People who let me stay at their house overnight were ousted by CAMP the next day. The FBI came and talked with somebody's employer who let me stay at their house. There was a very concerted effort to make it hard for me to move back here over. But it's the 'green scare' now. Here's one case: agents ask the phone company, and the phone company says: "This phone number belongs to somebody called Louisa Hemacheck. But besides this phone number, she also has another phone that she calls the 'Green Line1. Based on that information only, the FBI then interviews the sheriff. They say: "What do you know about Louisa Hemacheck?"
"Oh, she's a hippie and an environmentalist." Environmental activity is treated as criminal on its face. In this method, they came up with the names of close to 800 Earth First!ers, environmentalists and our associates... // sounds like Germany in the '30s!
JUDI: Yes. And it's no crimes committed. No leads to lead to the bomber.
Was anybody from L-P present at bomb school, Judi? The detonation actions took place at an L-P clearcut after all.
JIJDI: We asked Frank Doyle that question in the depositions, and he said, Frank Wigginton of L-P security would have been there to secure the company's interests. And he said he remembers Frank Wigginton at bomb schools, but he doesn't remember what years - which is how they get out of answering a question straight on. I want to add one more outrageous thing that happened in the course of this investigation which I think shows there is some level of connection between the FBI and local police and timber. I said that all the death threats came during one time period before the bombing, except one. When I tried to move back to the community, they tried real hard to keep me out. It was very scary. I was terrified. I went into hiding when I got out of the hospital 1 stayed with some Quakers in the middle of nowhere, because I was too scared to come home. Meanwhile, the Building Department busted my ex-husband's, my landlord's house, and my house. The Child Protective Department was asking around about my children. People who let me stay at their house overnight were busted by CAMP the next day. The FBI came and talked with somebody's employer who let me stay at their house. There was a very concerted effort to make it hard for me to move back here. I persisted, and the scariest part was just as I was getting ready to come back, a death threat was posted both on my landlord's mailbox and downtown in Willits, that gave the exact directions to my house -- which it called my "Hideout." The notice said: "Bari get out of Willits." and it offered a case of Coors "to the stud who bums (me) out", and a "six pack for every hippie shack you take out on (my) road."
That was very scary, and the whole neighborhood had a meeting. Even the timber people in this neighborhood came to the meeting. 1 came, and Bruce Anderson came with me. And my neighbors said: "You have a right to live anywhere you want to." The whole neighborhood stuck up for my right to live here, despite the threat to them. And Karen Smith, Walter Smith's wife, wrote a letter to the Willits News publicly offering me and my children to live with them, for protection -- after which, they were harassed. So the community didn't let them drive me out, and I have to express my appreciation to the community for that. But I was very terrified by this threat. 1 never knew where it came from.
Then I got my FBI files last year — through the [discovery] process -- and in my FBI files, there is a notice. It is from one of the FBI case agents, and it's a list of things to do: "Intelligence has revealed that Judi Ban has a hideout northeast of Willits where she lives without electricity that she is trading labor for the use of." It goes on to say that Stockton Buck, the FBI agent, is instructed, with Steve Satterwhite (now don't forget, Satterwhite is the Mendocino county deputy who didn't have the manpower to investigate the death threats) to find my "hideout" — and that's their word. So, I'm supposedly not being charged with any crime at this point, and yet, Steve Satterwhite has time to find my hippie shack!
So, they conduct this investigation. (They actually do; I have evidence of it in my file.) They look through the land titles trying to find out who my landlord is, and they investigate the propane companies to see if they can find who delivers propane here to try to find out where my hideout is. Then, in the middle of August, they record in the FBI files, that the Willits News has received a phone call from somebody who gives exact directions to my house (and it has certain wording for the directions.)
One week after this is recorded in the FBI files, 1 get this death threat, and the death threat says: "The hippies up String Creek have built a hide out (same word as from the FBI files) for Earth First! terrorist Judi Bari." (The tip to the Willits News said: "They're building a national headquarters for Earth First!")
"We don't want national headquarters for Earth First! in Willits," says the death threat. Same, exact language. And then the directions it gave to my house and the death threat are identical to the directions recorded in the FBI file.
Are you saying the FBI was involved with this death threat? Sgt. Satterwhite, who by the way, in preparation for Redwood Summer, was giving self-defense with small arms workshops to gyppo logging groups
jusi before and after the bombing.
JUDI: I'm saying they are both possibly involved. So what we did with this threat - the Mendocino sheriffs weren't very helpful -- we turned it over to the Willits police, which were the only police force that ever helped me. But the Willits police had to turn it over to the county, because I live in an unincorporated area, and the county never did anything with the death threat Including, they never turned it over to the FBI, or the FBI never admits to have received it.
So here's the FBI conducting this big bombing investigation, finding my "hideout", and they don't know I've received a death threat with the exact same wording as they've used the week before'71 find that very hard to believe. I don't know what this means. 1 don't know if this means Satterwhite or Stockton Buck or either of them was involved in the last death threat. It's certainly hard to believe that they didn't know about it. The Willits Police says they told them about it.
language that occurs in the FBI files occurs in the Lord's Avenger's letter, in tips to the Willits News, in death threats to you. You've spent the past four years uncovering these buried links. Finally, what do you think they mean7
JUDI: It raises very serious questions about FBI prior knowledge, about FBI involvement, about police involvement. All of these questions are raised. We don't have the answers yet. 1 hope we can get them.

Read the Entire Judi Ran interview @ C New Settler Interview

Can you handle the truth now, ISO!!!!


AIIZ
User avatar
Apollonaris Zeus
 
Posts: 3716
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 11:17 am

Postby Simply Joel » Fri May 27, 2005 11:50 am

Apollonaris Zeus wrote:Fuck you Joel!

Take your bullshit and mindless additions somewhere else.

You have no original opinion what so ever!

AIIZ


well, i am glad we elevated the level of thought/argument here.

maybe all opinions have previously been said?

then no opinion is original!

and finally,

nothing i say or type is mindless...

possibly something you don't want to hear or read, but certainly not mindless.
Simply Joel
 
Posts: 3483
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2004 10:08 am
Location: Land of Lincoln

Postby spectabillis » Mon May 30, 2005 3:21 am

I thought it was directed at the 'other' Joel.


But I dont know how that sniping first escaped me... not a cool reaction indeed.
spectabillis
 
Posts: 3530
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:07 am
Location: parallel cortex sensory stream interface

Postby Simply Joel » Mon May 30, 2005 6:04 am

it is the same joel.... no sock puppet.
Simply Joel
 
Posts: 3483
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2004 10:08 am
Location: Land of Lincoln

Postby Badger » Mon May 30, 2005 4:43 pm

Can you handle the truth now, ISO!!!!


That you buttress your wildly contentious accusation by citing a data point of one (Judy Barry) is laughable to the nth.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. As usual, you've provided only set up half of your (quite faulted) equation.
.
Desert dogs drink deep.

Image
.
User avatar
Badger
 
Posts: 3322
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 2:43 pm
Location: San Francisco

Postby Apollonaris Zeus » Tue May 31, 2005 2:19 pm

Right Badger!

Verifying the connections of the FBI with industry funded Wise-Use Terrorist will be harder.

And I have to wait for my FOIA's to return not that it means that it will have the information I need on it.

AIIZ
User avatar
Apollonaris Zeus
 
Posts: 3716
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 11:17 am

Postby Apollonaris Zeus » Wed Feb 22, 2006 8:06 am

Well my FOIA's to the FBI and the DEA have turn up with nothing on files on nor was a case submitted. My local FBI agent and regional director have emphatically said that there is no investigation proceeding on me.

I believe them.

And now I believe that there are rogue agents involved.

More then ever law enforcement agencies need stronger checks and balances with secret wiretaps or access to personal computers using devices that use holes purposely written in programs so that only law enforcement has access to.

All law enforcement is corrupt people- some more, some less, but never the less corruption always follows power!

So Write you congressmen! Polygraph, Polygraphy, Polygraph till you die!

More on this later.

AIIZ
User avatar
Apollonaris Zeus
 
Posts: 3716
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 11:17 am

Postby joel the ornery » Wed Feb 22, 2006 8:25 am

Apollonaris Zeus wrote:And now I believe that there are rogue agents involved.


Image
User avatar
joel the ornery
 
Posts: 2659
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 3:28 pm
Location: i'm the snarky one in your worst fucking nightmares
Burning Since: 1998

Postby Apollonaris Zeus » Wed Feb 22, 2006 6:45 pm

That is definitely your coolest post- ever Ornery Joe! Whose is it?

AIIZ
User avatar
Apollonaris Zeus
 
Posts: 3716
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 11:17 am

Postby joel the ornery » Wed Feb 22, 2006 6:49 pm

Apollonaris Zeus wrote:That is definitely your coolest post- ever Ornery Joe! Whose is it?

AIIZ


click the quote, and you can find the source

i just image googled "paranoia"
User avatar
joel the ornery
 
Posts: 2659
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 3:28 pm
Location: i'm the snarky one in your worst fucking nightmares
Burning Since: 1998

Next

Return to Politics & Philosophy

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest