The New Pope

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The New Pope

Postby Will » Wed Apr 20, 2005 10:47 am

Okay, I'm missing something. I cracked the lid on this can of worms in another topic, and now I'm going to open it the rest of the way.

What has Pope Benedict done that warrents being condemned? The worst I can see is that he was conscripted into the Hitler Youth when he was 14. He's denounced unorthodoxy, which is average for a high ranking member of the church. And he's older than I would prefer. All I can find out currently is that he's the new Pope. Everything else on him is flooded out.

Basically, what has he done that warrents the reaction I've seen?
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Postby Martiansky » Wed Apr 20, 2005 11:21 am

I don't think he's done anything wrong.
If he was 14 and faced death or join a group...sorry, I think I'd chose life too. Maybe it was a mistake, people make mistakes and hopefully learn from them. Get through it and then fight against it.
He's not too old.....the likely hood of voting in another younger Pope was not high. He's more like an interim Pope. May not live very long...could live to be in his 90's...only God knows.
Some people may not like him because of his(and the Catholic Church's) stand against gay marriage. Nothing can be done to change it. Move on, go through a Commitment ceremony if your state allows it.
As for abortion.....wrap that rascal and don't take the chance of having an unwanted pregnancy.

Many people don't like rules, especially ones related to Religion.

Had to add this.....
I don't think that the Rest in Peace thread should be used for anything other then a remembrance of loved ones thread......some people(left un-named) have gone ahead and used it as a slam thread.....and gotten (most likely)the responses they were trying to get.
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Postby Lassen Forge » Wed Apr 20, 2005 12:24 pm

About the Rest In Peace thread -

Thank you!! It makes me sad (and a little... um... angry?) that people took that thread over and used it against Pope Benedict. Whether they agree with him or not, that thread shouldn't have been used as a public denunciation board. It kind of ruins it for those of us who wanted to use it for it's intended purpose.

About Benedict XVI...

I'm still waiting to see how he's going to be in the Papacy. True, he did go into the HY at 14, but he also deserted from the German Army and was caught (and interned) by US forces when he went back home (to by then American held soil). He was also head of the office of doctrine, and came out with some pretty harsh stuff... but he was also under the direction of John Paul II.

So we'll see... it's telling the name he chose - now had he chosen to be one of the Pius's (which were notoriously conservative), *that* would have been scary.
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Postby HughMungus » Wed Apr 20, 2005 1:08 pm

Martiansky wrote:As for abortion.....wrap that rascal and don't take the chance of having an unwanted pregnancy.


That's not allowed, either, is it?

Same shit, different pope.
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Postby theCryptofishist » Wed Apr 20, 2005 1:15 pm

It's not even gay marraige

Creep factors I and II:
Many blame Ratzinger for decrees from Rome barring Catholic priests from counseling pregnant teens on their options and blocking German Catholics from sharing communion with their Lutheran brethren at a joint gathering in 2003.


Creep Factor III:
John Paul II named him leader of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith in 1981, where he was responsible for enforcing Catholic orthodoxy and was one of the key men in the drive to shore up the faith of the world's Roman Catholics.


I have not been able to confirm that the office he was in charge of for 20 years was the Inquisition, but that would be Creep Factor IV.

Creep Factor V
Matt Foreman, executive director of the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force, was raised Catholic but left the church in 1986 after former Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger -- the new Pope Benedict XVI -- issued a letter to the bishops on the "pastoral care of homosexual persons." The letter described gays as "intrinsically disordered" and homosexuality as a "tendency ordered toward an intrinsic moral evil."


the gay marraige thing is moot compared to that. To reguard homosexuals as permently on tenterhooks because one slip into sexuality is evil is essentially a negative view of sexuality and of life--no matter what he may say to the contrary.

And I could have gone for a pope from the impovrished 3rd world. Instead of the same old same old.

The sad truth is that the Catholic Church is out of step with many of us, religious or not. And this "moral relitivism" crap that he espouses sounds an awful lot like "We're right, you're wrong, neener, neener, neener."

And he may not have done anything as pope but he's done plenty as a cardinal. And I think that counts, just like GWBs executions and drug use.

But he does look kinda dottering. . .

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Postby theCryptofishist » Wed Apr 20, 2005 1:17 pm

BTW--the Hitler Youth is irreleivent without more information. It was just about a mandatory afterschool program. Now, if it had been the League of German Maidens--I'd be interested.
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Postby Kinetic IV » Wed Apr 20, 2005 1:26 pm

But he does look kinda dottering. . .


There's one picture of him smiling with his arms raised that gives me the willies. I can't explain it..most of the new images of him are fine. But that one gives him an evil smile..it's just freaky looking.

And if my post offended anyone in the RIP thread, I am sorry for that. I went into response mode and wasn't thinking about where I was posting at.
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Postby Isotopia » Wed Apr 20, 2005 3:05 pm

Basically, what has he done that warrents the reaction I've seen?


For starters the catholic group Dignity which is the largest organized group of lesbian and gay catholics in the world were, by edict, given the boot from every catholic church in the world in which they were holding their meetings. Ratzinger was solely responsible for the decision and unapologetic for it.

Imagine the one place where safety is assured (or presumed) in meeting with scores of other people who share the same anguish and attempts at reconcilliation as you are suddenly told overnight 'get the fuck out of the house.' Metaphorically, the image is shattering enough given that so many literally were told that at another time by another 'family' member at another time.
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Postby theCryptofishist » Wed Apr 20, 2005 4:14 pm

Let's take that a step further and say that they were disowned from the metaphoric family as well as all to often the literal one.





I just hate that the guy seriously believes things that basically indicate that he finds queers and women to be lessor beings.
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Postby Isotopia » Wed Apr 20, 2005 6:12 pm

Let's take that a step further and say that they were disowned from the metaphoric family as well as all to often the literal one.


That was the point that I somewhat inarticulately was trying to put across.

Coupled with Ratzinger's following day media blitz condeming both the group AND its members. Can't imagine a more drastic scenario in which questioning kids are reminded yet again that they're evil, perverted scum. And we question the basis of addiction, suicide, depression, low self-esteem.
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Postby dr.placebo » Wed Apr 20, 2005 6:29 pm

Here are two paragraphs from The Tablet
http://www.thetablet.co.uk/cgi-bin/...ster.cgi/tablet-00936

At the Eighth International Church Music Congress in Rome in 1986, for example, Ratzinger blasted rock music as a “vehicle of anti-religion”. He said rock and roll is a secular variant of an age-old ecstatic religion, in which man “lowers the barriers of individuality and personality” to “liberate himself from the burden of consciousness”. Rock is thus “the complete antithesis of Christian faith in the redemption”.

In March 1997 Ratzinger offered a similarly harsh judgement on Buddhism, calling it “an auto-erotic spirituality” in an interview with a leading French newspaper. Buddhism, said Ratzinger, “seeks transcendence without imposing concrete religious obligations”.



Buddhist Rock and Roll Forever!!!
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Postby Badger » Wed Apr 20, 2005 7:06 pm

At the Eighth International Church Music Congress in Rome in 1986, for example, Ratzinger blasted rock music as a “vehicle of anti-religion”. He said rock and roll is a secular variant of an age-old ecstatic religion, in which man “lowers the barriers of individuality and personality” to “liberate himself from the burden of consciousness”. Rock is thus “the complete antithesis of Christian faith in the redemption”.


I'm assuming he'd just finished listening to Jim Carroll's Catholic Boy

I make angels dance and drop to their knees
When I enter a church the feet of the statue bleed
I understand the faith of all my enemies
With that Christ and a God, it's never me...

I'm a Catholic boy...
I was Redeemed, detained...and I be joy...

I watched His sweetest psalms stolen by the choir
I dreamed of all his bones hangin' from a wire
I take the contribution, I get absolution
I make the resolution to verify my soul...
.
Desert dogs drink deep.

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Postby calsur » Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:03 am

How about just seeing what he does?

I play the heavy just about every day for my boss. Its set up in advance. Good Caltrans – Jeff. Bad Caltrans – Calsur. I get the jobs where you have to smack people into compliance with the rules. And why do I get those jobs? I am good at it and the rules need to be enforced. But if I was top dog I would change some of the rules because they are just out of date.

So you have a new Pope and HE now gets to make the rules. After 20 years of being the heavy. It could go either way. See what he does . Give him a chance.
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Postby Kinetic IV » Thu Apr 21, 2005 5:37 am

That's a much cleaner way of saying what I was thinking and posted elsewhere. Now that he's the one wearing the all powerful Fisherman's Ring...he can do pretty much whatever he wants.

Again people thought they knew John Paul II....and he had a few surprises for all of us. Ratzinger could do the same thing.

But I must admit some of those quotes were very disturbing.
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Isn't there something more important to be doing?

Postby joel the ornery » Thu Apr 21, 2005 6:21 am

new pope, eh?

see you in the bar.
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Re: Isn't there something more important to be doing?

Postby Martiansky » Thu Apr 21, 2005 8:34 am

joel the ornery wrote:new pope, eh?

see you in the bar.


Ok, Joel.....See you there! I'll buy ya one!
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Postby theCryptofishist » Thu Apr 21, 2005 9:02 am

calsur wrote: the rules need to be enforced.
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"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri


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Postby dr.placebo » Thu Apr 21, 2005 9:12 am

It would certainly please me if B16 turns out to be better than expected. JP2 certainly had his good points (e.g., anti-communism, anti-war).

But my life and beliefs have been publicly damned in his official writings (not personally, just categorically). Even the members of his own church have the whip come down for following their conscience. So having expectations of continuity strikes me as being prudent rather than prejudicial.
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Postby Ranger Genius » Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:33 pm

It's a small digression, and some of you may have seen this, but what the hell:
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Postby Martiansky » Thu Apr 28, 2005 8:54 am

That's pretty funny RangerG!

My thoughts.....
World Youth Day this year= in Germany
New Pope is from= Germany

= meant to be?
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Postby theCryptofishist » Thu Apr 28, 2005 9:54 am

Do little catholic boys with proto vocations pick out their pope names?
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Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri


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Postby diane o'thirst » Fri May 20, 2005 2:30 pm

I think it's more due to disappointment that Benedict the Number Salad gets dissed. We get a chance at a new Pope and it turns out to be a fundie in bold caps. The scary thing is not so much that he was in the HY but that he's being a hard line on birth control, AND he is very much continuing J2P2's work in bridging talks with the other Christian sects. Word has it that the Southern Baptist Convention <b>LOVE</b> him :shock: Not a good sign...

In the aftermath of his election (snerk, snigger), lots of pharmacists throughout the country started refusing to fill birth control prescriptions, and they did so because they were encouraged by his "no birth control, no abortion" message and the SBC's endorsement of him. It the acts of several governors — I'm blanking on which states offhand — to stop that nonsense. It's not necessary to squeeze out nine kids anymore, it's not like the old days where you lost about half of them to cholera, typhoid and polio; aside from the fact that telling people not to buy and use condoms in this day and age is straight up irresponsible, never mind out of touch. At least if the Nigerian cardinal had gotten in, he'd have laid the cards on the table and said, "The church says this but all the doctrine and orthodoxy in the world won't help you if you're on your back, dying. Use 'em."
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Postby theCryptofishist » Fri May 20, 2005 2:56 pm

diane o'thirst wrote:In the aftermath of his election (snerk, snigger),

Image
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"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri


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Postby diane o'thirst » Fri May 20, 2005 3:01 pm

:? :?:
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Postby cowboyangel » Fri May 20, 2005 5:18 pm

take it from me (or not) the Pope's got a huuuuuge weight on his shoulders right now and a daunting legacy ( don't count church fuck-ups) the office will change the man...even a little will mean alot. Trust me.
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Postby unjonharley » Fri May 20, 2005 7:53 pm

I'm poped out. Jpaul and his were hiding child molester in the Vat. And the beat go's on. I think they should clean up the place before dictateing to the world. He church seem interested in eveyones crouch. They wont to control your ideas on birth and death. How the hell much is it to plant a person in the church. I payed big money in the 60s to plant a friend after he did himself. Money made it just ok baaa
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Postby spectabillis » Sat May 21, 2005 8:27 pm

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Postby geekster » Sun May 22, 2005 2:02 am

Oh for crying out loud ... has it been all *that* much of a secret over the last couple thousand years?
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Postby cowboyangel » Sun May 22, 2005 7:17 pm

ya I know it's beyond tragic...and just this past week, the Vatican refused to look into some famous priest who started some order and also molested a pack of boys.....
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new pope eh? i'll be in the bar.

Postby joel the ornery » Mon May 23, 2005 3:26 am

two comments regarding the above post...

"as if that was news"

and

"cites, facts, references?"
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