School Bus 101, long technical post

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Re: School Bus 101, long technical post

Postby Elliot » Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:25 pm

I would like to learn about the boat paint.
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Re: School Bus 101, long technical post

Postby Martiansky » Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:49 pm

Nothing like driving a bus load of kids to/from school when its pouring rain and then..... the roof leaks on them!!! Even some of the "newer" buses roofs would leak at the rivets.
Wish the bus company had known about boat hull paint back then and the white color(that I see they have gone to on bus hoods and roofs lately) I'm sure would've helped with heat disipation, also.
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Re: School Bus 101, long technical post

Postby gyre » Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:20 pm

For leaks, schnee-morehead seam sealer, acetone based acrylic.
They have a urethane adhesive for structural joints, like steel to aluminum and wood.
I need to get some myself.
Made for vehicles.
There are competitors, but I can vouch for their stuff.
Seems expensive. It's not.
The seam sealer is available in many colors.
Commonly used in steel manufacture and storm windows.

For prep, you really can't beat a fuller wire brush, steel or stainless and modular available.
Similar to production style wire wheels in stiffness.

Rustoleum has a water base primer that is incredibly abrasion resistant.
I thoroughly detest applying it.
Supposed to be vapor free, I find the fumes noxious and corrosive.
Tough.

They have a fish oil primer for heavy rust and zinc chromate for cleaned surfaces.
i usually use their heavy duty aluminum, 50% aluminum, as a top coat.
It will leaf.
They also have a middle layer and cold galvanizing, high zinc content.

I've been using that on some racks.
I've had some spots stain through, not sure why.
Been left outside, no top coat.
Most of it is fine.
Could be some I didn't have the good brush for.

Rustoleum also has a fairly unique product for moderate temperatures.
Can be used as a primer for low temps without curing and is good for 200 degrees, as is the hd aluminum.
Their higher temp paints are great, but require baking to cure.
Good engine bay paint, or near hot parts.
Can be used anywhere without heat.
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Re: School Bus 101, long technical post

Postby Meat Hunter » Wed Sep 25, 2013 5:26 pm

Back in the 1970's when I was in the home-built aircraft building business, the primer of choice was pure (green) zinc chromate primer.

Not only is zinc chromate primer one of the better weather, water and rust resistant primers -- for all types of metals, it also is one of the best primers for adherence to aluminum.

We would spray on two light coats; the first coat was very-very thin. The next day, we sprayed on a bit thicker (but still thin) second coat.
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Re: School Bus 101, long technical post

Postby Captain Goddammit » Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:05 pm

I'd recommend topping a bus paint job with a clear coat. It will look a lot better, and stay looking better longer. I know very few people actually ever wax a bus, so you need all the help you can get!
I believe Rustoleum makes a clear paint that works well.

I wanted to go high-gloss with clear on my Mutant Vehicle, but I know it's useless... it'll be covered in dirt.
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Re: School Bus 101, long technical post

Postby FlyingMonkey » Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:02 am

Elliot wrote:I would like to learn about the boat paint.


Sorry it took so long to get back to you. It was a Rustoleum product that we bought at Menards. Like I said it went on really smooth & even with a cheap spray gun. With the white roof & reflectix in the windows we were able to keep the bus fairly cool all week. We had AC but didn't have the plug for our 60 amp output on the generator. Besides, that would have deprived us of experiencing the heat or the playa.
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Re: School Bus 101, long technical post

Postby Elliot » Sat Sep 28, 2013 12:58 pm

Very good.

And I have unearthed the bag of microscopic ceramic spheres that will be mixed into Millicent's roof paint. The stuff is called Hy-Tech ThermaCels.
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Re: School Bus 101, long technical post

Postby Captain Goddammit » Fri Oct 18, 2013 4:24 pm

Just for you, Elliot! A chopped Crown (my favorite type of school bus of all, because of their big-truck drivetrains)
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Re: School Bus 101, long technical post

Postby GreyCoyote » Fri Oct 18, 2013 5:42 pm

Gotta love Photoshop. :mrgreen: Still, it's a neat idea for a roller. Needs a spoiler on the back too. Almost looks like it would do a burnout!
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Re: School Bus 101, long technical post

Postby Captain Goddammit » Fri Oct 18, 2013 7:10 pm

Yeah I know it's a chopped-up photo... you can see the cut lines in the pic. Sure does look cool though.
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Re: School Bus 101, long technical post

Postby Elliot » Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:41 pm

.
Ah yes, good old scissors and glue. Came in handy when I was brainstorming Millicent.

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Returned today from the last scheduled trip of the season. Only 4,724 miles this year -- because we skipped the long trip to Port Townsend, WA.
No more mechanical trouble than one must expect, I would say. :D
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Re: School Bus 101, long technical post

Postby GreyCoyote » Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:50 pm

Elliot, you *must* warn us before messing with our minds. I spent a good 10 seconds wiping my tri-focals when I saw that picture. When I put them back on and the "line" was still there! What the hey?!?

(The funny part about this is I wear progressive lenses. There IS no line. Ever. Doh!!!) :shock:
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Re: School Bus 101, long technical post

Postby Elliot » Mon Oct 21, 2013 5:23 pm

.
*stencils another "kill" on Millicent*

--------------------------

And here is what we looked like on this trip. Another thing is that I wonder why I see so may wrecks in the rear view mirrors?

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Re: School Bus 101, long technical post

Postby FlyingMonkey » Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:57 am

Elliot & others,

My Winter/Spring project is going to be welding up a roof rack for my bus, but my partner in crime wants to put a “back porch” on it too. Something that we can throw a couple of cycles on for race day & big enough to haul lots of stuff to the Playa that we don’t want inside, like gasoline, generator, & propane tanks. I’m thinking it will have to be at least 6’ long & as wide as the bumper. Have any of you done this, or had experience doing something like it? I’m wondering about specifics like if you used square tube, plate, how thick, Bolt, weld (or both) to the frame. I’m inclined to mount it where the existing rear bumper is & reinforce it with steel to the frame, welding everything once it’s in place & re-using the bumper on the end. Of course we would relocate the lights & have a well-lit & unobstructed license plate. Down the road we want to take a small art car as well so this would be valuable real estate for hauling stuff. Is this too much trouble where a trailer would be a better solution? Please give me your thoughts on this.

Thanks.
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Re: School Bus 101, long technical post

Postby GreyCoyote » Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:13 pm

FM: I will defer to Elliott on this when he answers, but my gut tells me that's a lot of trouble for what could be accomplished better with a trailer. You're not talking about a light load there, and with a 6 foot moment arm, that's a lot of weight to properly integrate, debounce, and support. Some states have laws too about what you can and can't do in the way of a "back porch", so you might want to run that angle down too.

Sadly, the more "mutant" you go on the street, the more Johnny Five-Oh wants a closer look.
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Re: School Bus 101, long technical post

Postby FlyingMonkey » Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:47 am

Yeah, that's pretty much what I was thinking but my buddy is very focused on building a porch. I think we will get much better use out of a roof rack and then not have much need for a porch. I'm not opposed to the project simply because I love doing this kind of work, but I don't want to make it a top priority. I've seen it done, but we would have to be sure we made it strong/safe enough & that usually means over engineering it.

Either way, the bus will be at my house all winter so the roof rack is getting done first. After that if we feel we still need it then we will probably do it.
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Re: School Bus 101, long technical post

Postby Elliot » Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:44 am

TRAILER.
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Re: School Bus 101, long technical post

Postby Elliot » Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:36 am

:D
1

If your bus has the engine in the front, it already has a very long rear overhang – long enough that it may already have damage from scraping on the ground. Both mine did. It is also not-uncommon that the rear overhang strikes objects on the outside of sharp turns, such as when turning out from a fuel pump. You definitely don’t want to add to that overhang.

If the bus has the engine in the rear, the overhang is shorter, but you don’t want to install anything back there to impede access to the engine.


2

Most states have a limit on how long a vehicle like a bus/motor-home can be. In California it is 40 feet. There are some exceptions sneaking into the laws for up to 42 or 44 or so feet, but even these are restricted to major highways, and the driver needs a higher license.


3

A trailer is a marvelously convenient invention. Low to the ground, quick and easy to connect and disconnect – I cannot think of a single drawback.
Yes, you do have to learn how to use it, specially backing up. And you can learn that.


4

As for loading all that heavy Stuff onto the roof…. You would have to tow a construction crane on a trailer anyway, wouldn’t you! I’ve seen small cranes attached to buses, and they get the job done, but… why?


Trailer. I use mine all the time with my pickup, also. Mighty handy thing to have. :D
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Re: School Bus 101, long technical post

Postby Captain Goddammit » Thu Oct 31, 2013 2:49 pm

I'd also very strongly vote "trailer", for all the reasons Elliot already said, and if you're ever gonna do a mutant vehicle you'll need a trailer anyway.
Also worth a mention, a "porch" that is stout enough for what you want and six feet long will be heavy!
Ever towing a trailer with your bus after you add another six feet of overhang won't be exactly ideal.

If your bus is a 40 footer, it's already at max legal length. 45 feet is legal only on approved routes.
If its much shorter, a six foot porch is really gonna screw up the balance.

It's a cool idea, in theory, but your buddy needs to read a few laws - of both legal and physics types!
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Re: School Bus 101, long technical post

Postby Tiahaar » Fri Nov 01, 2013 11:57 pm

google 'bus back porch' for some interesting photos of various takeoffs and executions, some quite good, some quite tragic. 'bus roof deck' is also entertaining 8)
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Re: School Bus 101, long technical post

Postby Tiahaar » Sat Nov 02, 2013 12:04 am

...and said googling led me to, among others, this thing...gotta love it :roll:
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Re: School Bus 101, long technical post

Postby ygmir » Sat Nov 02, 2013 12:11 am

Looneytune made a really nice roof deck: he put shade above and flags......I don't seem to have a photo of that.
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Re: School Bus 101, long technical post

Postby Tiahaar » Sat Nov 09, 2013 8:32 pm

Wow two awesome vehicles there! That deck looks sweet, mine will be about half that size on the bus amidships. Working on the hatch this weekend in fact. But damnnnn the camper firetruck is cool Ygmir! I hear the water cannon even works :shock:
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Re: School Bus 101, long technical post

Postby ygmir » Sat Nov 09, 2013 8:35 pm

Hey Tiahaar!!
yeah, the water cannon knocked Piney's fence loose and broke limbs off her tree. it'll shoot about 300' I guess.........
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Re: School Bus 101, long technical post

Postby GreyCoyote » Mon Dec 02, 2013 4:54 pm

Bump! (because Tuesday is the official start of the school bus buying season. Go with it...) :mrgreen:
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Re: School Bus 101, long technical post

Postby Elliot » Mon Dec 02, 2013 6:13 pm

.
By coincidence, Millicent came around to the front yard for winterizing of her indoor plumbing today. Just like a store-bought RV, fresh-water and waste-water tanks must be drained, and the remaining water spiked liberally with appropriate "RV Water Antifreeze", so pipes and tanks don't freeze and crack. Hardware stores and auto parts stores have this kind of antifreeze also.

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Re: School Bus 101, long technical post

Postby Elliot » Sat Jan 11, 2014 1:28 pm

Rumour Alert:
Word is, a friend of a friend just bought a school bus from the San Juan School District in Sacramento, CA, and they have several more for sale. Apparently they are selling them directly to the public, which is convenient. I expect you would want to contact the Transportation Dept.

That is all I have.
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Re: School Bus 101, long technical post

Postby Martiansky » Sat Jan 11, 2014 1:33 pm

Elliot,
How much buses going for in your neck of the woods?
There is one near me that is $3000 or BO.
It's an older one from the bus company I used to work for and now owned by a private party.
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Re: School Bus 101, long technical post

Postby Elliot » Sat Jan 11, 2014 5:43 pm

Martiansky wrote:Elliot,
How much buses going for in your neck of the woods?
There is one near me that is $3000 or BO.
It's an older one from the bus company I used to work for and now owned by a private party.

There are so many variables, I cannot help much so far. But the fact that it is now owned privately is a red flag. Sure, it could be just that he had a change of plans, but it could also be that he discovered problems with the bus. And he may have "de-valued" it with well-intended amateur work.

Shall we discuss it here, or by PM? I'm not sure what's best, considering other readers of the thread, present and future.

Either way, gather as much information as you possibly can, and we will try to evaluate.

Oh.... Up north, my first concern might be rust.
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Re: School Bus 101, long technical post

Postby Elliot » Sat Jan 11, 2014 7:55 pm

:D
Let me suggest a list of information that a potential buyer ought to have before we can fully discuss the merits of a bus.


Bus design
(conventional, engine and hood stick out in front,
(forward control, engine inside next to driver
(pusher, engine in tail
(van with bus body
(whatnot? There are some rare ones out there


Year of manufacture


Body brand
(Blue Bird, Thomas, Genesis, Carpenter, Ward, etc)


Chassis brand
(Chevy/GMC, Ford, Blue Bird, Thomas, Freightliner, etc)


Fuel used in the engine
(Diesel or gasoline)


Engine brand
(Cummins, Caterpillar, International, etc)


Engine model / size
(5.9, 8.3, DT466, 3208, BT6, ISX, etc)

In addition, determine for certain if the engine has...
…a turbocharger,
…an intercooler.


Transmission type
(stick or automatic)


Transmission brand
(Allison, etc)


Transmission model
(AT545, MT643, 3060, etc)


Number of rows of seats, or number of kids.
(Seats roughly correspond to number of windows. Six kids per full row of seats.


Gross Vehicle Weight Rating – GWVR, found on tag inside. Perhaps same tag as year of manufacture. There may be more than one tag.


Type of wheels
(Do they have a simple circle of lug nuts in the center like on cars, or do they have nuts on top of little wedges of metal out near the edge of the tires?)


Find as many as you can of those. Of course, pictures will quickly answer a number of them.
.
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