Playa Tested Greywater Evaporator

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Re: Playa Tested Greywater Evaporator

Postby Elderberry » Sat Aug 10, 2013 3:26 pm

I for one would be interested in your purification system. I think you should start a whole new thread with the complete details of your whole setup whenever you have time.

mulch wrote:So GreyCoyote is alluding to our camps crazy shower that has a very complicated and robust water purification system that lets us recirculate for an infinate hot sterilized shower. I don't have time to post it now and answer questions and absorb snark, maybe after the burn when it's playa tested.

I'm not sure how much grey water we are going to generate with filter backwashes so I'm bringing some pond liner and wood for a standard setup, but I'm hoping that this does it with a small footprint.

The whole thing fits in the tote. Cheap shelves, sump pump with inline filter, black towel sheets they call them, an interval timer cause the towels get soaked in just a minute or two, and a fan so that the inside surface is an evaporative surface.

Total of 30 square feet and if you get surface area inside and out, x 2
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Re: Playa Tested Greywater Evaporator

Postby asr9754 » Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:49 am

Curious how other's flying-saucer evapotrons worked in 2013. Mine was....not great. It was ok, maybe 5-6 gallons per day. Not sure what went wrong. We wrapped a double layer of window screen around it, hoping that more layers = more surface tension = more evap. Our pump seemed to run poorly, getting clogged periodically. The wire mesh got some dents so the water didn't cascade down it evenly. The pump was on a timer, running 2 minutes on/2 minutes off. We experimented with different timer settings, no noticeable changes.

Next time, I will buy brand new screening and assemble the thing on playa, so the screen is fresh with no creases or dents. And a new pump placed inside a cheap pantyhose filter. Will try single layer of mesh instead of double. Dammit already planning for next year!
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Re: Playa Tested Greywater Evaporator

Postby asr9754 » Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:39 am

Giving this another bump,

Success stories for greywater evap from 2013? I know the old "black-tarp-evap-pond" is outdated (as I witnessed as our neighbors scooped muddy water out of theirs with keg cups on Sunday morning). There are some other technologies being used, curious what worked for people. Thanks all!
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Re: Playa Tested Greywater Evaporator

Postby Just_Joe » Thu Sep 26, 2013 12:05 pm

This pic was taken on Friday.
The owner said it was processing 10+ gallons per day.
The rags are tied to one of those truck bed bungie spider web cover thingies, tied off to rebar.
Note the gray water drain from the RV empties directly into the pond
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Re: Playa Tested Greywater Evaporator

Postby Schtev » Thu Sep 26, 2013 1:11 pm

I think I may try something like this on a much smaller scale next time for just myself with no shower. But man, those rags must be NASTY by the end of the week.
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Re: Playa Tested Greywater Evaporator

Postby 666isMONEY » Thu Sep 26, 2013 1:28 pm

IMG_5508 (480x640).jpg


Saw several of these.
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Re: Playa Tested Greywater Evaporator

Postby The CO » Thu Sep 26, 2013 1:51 pm

I had good success with my MK VII.
Simple a frame structure about 3' high, 4' long. Sides covered with visqueen and burlap. Holding tank at one end (a small 2gal bucket). Pump in the bucket sends water to top of a frame, drip pipe saturates burlap. A gutter at bottom catches runoff and returns it to the bucket.

Evaps about .5 gallons per hour per side of a-frame, regardless of day, night, overcast, no wind.

I'll see if I can find a photo.
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Re: Playa Tested Greywater Evaporator

Postby asr9754 » Thu Sep 26, 2013 2:57 pm

Sounds good, yes would love to see a picture of that burlap frame device, thanks.
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Re: Playa Tested Greywater Evaporator

Postby The CO » Fri Sep 27, 2013 7:06 pm

Asr, you're in luck. A strange series of events at work has given me the opportunity to build the MK VIIa on the company dime tomorrow. Pics and update to be posted tomorrow eve.
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Re: Playa Tested Greywater Evaporator

Postby The CO » Fri Sep 27, 2013 7:12 pm

666ismoney, I saw a lot of those as well. Sadly, I'd say 60% of them were not working.

It's a great design, but has a lot of moving parts (waiting to go wrong). People also tend to stick them in the middle of camp, where wind is dampened.
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Re: Playa Tested Greywater Evaporator

Postby asr9754 » Wed Oct 23, 2013 4:31 pm

Hey CO,
did you ever have a change to post pics or a description of your Mark VII evap invention,
thanks!
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Re: Playa Tested Greywater Evaporator

Postby kowtow » Tue May 27, 2014 6:28 am

The CO wrote:Asr, you're in luck. A strange series of events at work has given me the opportunity to build the MK VIIa on the company dime tomorrow. Pics and update to be posted tomorrow eve.


Were any updates ever posted of the evaporator...
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Re: Playa Tested Greywater Evaporator

Postby asr9754 » Thu Jun 05, 2014 10:39 am

Giving this a Bump.
Looking for ideas or success stories to prepare for evap. Cheers.
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Re: Playa Tested Greywater Evaporator

Postby kowtow » Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:38 pm

I built mine, I got instructions off Instructables for Gray-B-Gon. Here is a video of the finished evapatron.

[media]
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Re: Playa Tested Greywater Evaporator

Postby Sunbeam56 » Thu Jun 05, 2014 7:19 pm

The greatest advantage of the desert is the dry air. Evap coolers will work, dont work in South Teavas, evap disposal works, doesnt wirk in South Texas.
Im looking forward to testing theories :)
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Re: Playa Tested Greywater Evaporator

Postby FIGJAM » Thu Jun 05, 2014 7:29 pm

Hard science, and you'll be next door so I can help! 8)
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Re: Playa Tested Greywater Evaporator

Postby kowtow » Thu Jun 05, 2014 7:33 pm

Ya FigJam has a somewhat UNFAIR advantage. He's lives in one of the hottest and driest places on earth. I had to drive down to AZ this spring, in order to try out my solar panels and swamp coolers just to see if they would work. We don't exactly have a lot of hot or dry weather up here in the PNW.
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Re: Playa Tested Greywater Evaporator

Postby FIGJAM » Thu Jun 05, 2014 7:38 pm

I'll say it's not fair!!!

I found out a long time ago that I am NOT solar powered!!! :shock:
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Re: Playa Tested Greywater Evaporator

Postby kowtow » Thu Jun 05, 2014 7:48 pm

LOL wasn't it 108° for you this week? :D
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Re: Playa Tested Greywater Evaporator

Postby FIGJAM » Thu Jun 05, 2014 8:26 pm

If it can't be done by 9 AM, it ain't getten done by me!

So I wouldn't know. :lol:
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Re: Playa Tested Greywater Evaporator

Postby kowtow » Thu Jun 05, 2014 9:09 pm

FIGJAM wrote:If it can't be done by 9 AM, it ain't getten done by me!

So I wouldn't know. :lol:


Ya my aunt who is from Portland said "It's just like you guys in the PNW in the winter, we don't leave the house when it's 105+ in the summer, just like you guys don't leave the house when it's under 30°"
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Re: Playa Tested Greywater Evaporator

Postby kowtow » Thu Jun 19, 2014 8:31 pm

I"m building a water treatment system and I need some advice from more seasoned individuals.

First I will only be treating shower and hand washing water, no food related filtering or treatment is needed.

I'm going to be making a 3 bucket (5 gal each) gravity fed treatment system. The shower drain will be the input to the 3 bucket system and the evapatron will be the output from the last buck in the system.

Bucket #1 - Media treatment; Using sphagnum peat moss, or some poly media to pull out larger particles.
Bucket #2 - Charcoal, sand, gravel treatment, removing particles in the ~20 micron range
Bucket #3 - Chemical treatment consisting of calcium hypochlorite this should kill everything else in the water except Cryptosporidium, but since I won't be drinking this water I could care less.

Questions:
How much calcium hypochlorite do I need to use per gallon of water? I've read everything from 1/2teaspoon to 6oz. (I just purchased one pound of calcium hypochlorite)
Will 1 pound of calcium hypochlorite be enough for 10 days (60 gallons of water)?
Will this system work well?
Should I have a shut off on the output of Bucket #3 so I don't overflow the evaptron?

The evapatron should hold 12 gallons of water, but I don't know how efficient the evapatron will be. I'm read 2 gallons per hour in high wind as was noted by the designer. I have both wind and a motor drive for the evapatron, so I should be able to simulate high wind and achieve 2 gallons per hour continuously.

As always your thoughts are invited.
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Re: Playa Tested Greywater Evaporator

Postby asr9754 » Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:27 am

I'm sharing your excitement, really I am, but this system seems way overkill. If it's just you and a few friends, there's no need for a system like this.

You can filter your shower water with an old Tshirt and a funnel and dump it directly into the Evap. For bacteria, add a cap full of bleach per gallon and it's fine to evap. If you're really worried, you could replenish a splash of bleach once a day since the chlorine will offgas with exposure to air and sunlight. (Water quality professional by day)

You estimate 60 gallons for a week to evap? That's too much. Recommended to bring is 1.5 to 2 gal per day, including your drinking water. If you have ice melt, keep it clean and reuse it and don't haul in all that water to begin with. Conservation is key--low flow sprayer, organic soap, short showers, every other day...or whatever works for you. A fine misting sprayer will let a lot of your shower water disappear as you use it. Some will end up on your towel, so not all will go down the drain. Hand wash w/ purell, wetnap, and/or a quick splash to rinse and you'll barely notice any wastewater.

IMO, rather than pack in (and out) 3 buckets, charcoal, sand, gravel, calcium, peat, motor drive.... and all the gear, why not just pack an empty vessel and if, at the end of the week you have graywater left in the evap, dump into the vessel and pack it out. Will be smaller and lighter than all the filtration gear.

My suggestion, take it or leave it: If you're determined to get fancy, rig up a way to drain the shower thru a filter cloth and into the evap tub with a way to clean or replace the filter easily.
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Re: Playa Tested Greywater Evaporator

Postby EspressoDude » Fri Jun 20, 2014 6:21 am

put a 12 quart dish pan in the bottom of your shower to stand in. catch the runoff and let it sit for a few hours so that the playa mud settles to the bottom then pour the water into your system. Set the pan with the mud outside to dry. This will keep your filters way cleaner. This also give you a clue of how much water is being used.
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Re: Playa Tested Greywater Evaporator

Postby kowtow » Fri Jun 20, 2014 7:49 am

asr9754 wrote:I'm sharing your excitement, really I am, but this system seems way overkill. If it's just you and a few friends, there's no need for a system like this.

Stepping back and thinking about it, I think you're absolutely right. The system requires ~12 gallons of waste water before it even begins dumping anything out of the system and into the evaporator. That seems unnecessary

asr9754 wrote:You can filter your shower water with an old Tshirt and a funnel and dump it directly into the Evap. For bacteria, add a cap full of bleach per gallon and it's fine to evap. If you're really worried, you could replenish a splash of bleach once a day since the chlorine will offgas with exposure to air and sunlight. (Water quality professional by day)

I think I will modify the design based on your inputs to basically just use Bucket #3. I will run the shower drain through a makeshift filter (nylons, t-shirt, etc.) and then into the bucket with a small amount of calcium hypochlorite and then let it drain directly into the evapatron.

asr9754 wrote:You estimate 60 gallons for a week to evap? That's too much. Recommended to bring is 1.5 to 2 gal per day, including your drinking water. If you have ice melt, keep it clean and reuse it and don't haul in all that water to begin with. Conservation is key--low flow sprayer, organic soap, short showers, every other day...or whatever works for you. A fine misting sprayer will let a lot of your shower water disappear as you use it. Some will end up on your towel, so not all will go down the drain. Hand wash w/ purell, wetnap, and/or a quick splash to rinse and you'll barely notice any wastewater.

I will be on the playa for 14 days, so I think a minimum of 28 gallons will be necessary for me. I like the idea of misting sprayer, but I personally don't like having to use a small hand sprayer. What I may do is remove the shower head off the Zodi shower and go buy a couple of those drip irrigation misting heads. That will allow for a hands free shower with much less water. Having been in the Navy for a number of years, I'm really trying to avoid the "navy shower" I would much rather start out using a hands free shower with the misting heads and see what that generates for grey water.

asr9754 wrote:IMO, rather than pack in (and out) 3 buckets, charcoal, sand, gravel, calcium, peat, motor drive.... and all the gear

I'll take you up on that and thanks for the advice! As an aside the motor drive for the evapatron is tiny. It's about the size of an empty toilet paper roll cut in half. They have multiple speed versions and I bought 3 from 5 -30 RPM. I just mount it at the axle of the barrel on the evapatron and it works great as a little low-speed, high-torque motor.
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Re: Playa Tested Greywater Evaporator

Postby kowtow » Fri Jun 20, 2014 8:11 am

EspressoDude wrote:put a 12 quart dish pan in the bottom of your shower to stand in. catch the runoff and let it sit for a few hours so that the playa mud settles to the bottom then pour the water into your system. Set the pan with the mud outside to dry. This will keep your filters way cleaner. This also give you a clue of how much water is being used.


I already have a shower enclosure that's roughly 30"x30" and I bought a washing machine drip tray that's roughly the same size with a built in drain plug. I will tap into that drain and run it through some type of filter (towel, t-shirt, nylons) and then into the bucket for transition to the evapatron. I like the idea of setting the generated mud out in the sun to harden be disposed of. - Thanks
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Re: Playa Tested Greywater Evaporator

Postby asr9754 » Fri Jun 20, 2014 11:16 am

I think your version 2.0 looks much improved and will do well for you. I still think you could skip the Bucket altogether and sprinkle the sterilizing agent directly into the Evap tub. (99cent quart of bleach would last more than 2 weeks, if you really want to be a scientist, check the chlorine level daily with pool test-strips ($9); 5-10 PPM is more than adequate for evap). But really just a splash of bleach a day would be fine for water that you're just evaporating.

(Forgive me but shower/water is my camp job so I've thought about this way too much....) Every drop you minimize using is a drop you don't have to pack, evaporate, and truck home. Zodi system is rated at 1/2 to 1 gallon per minute, and probably flows even more once it's broken-in. That's pretty high for the Playa, IMO. Agreed a trip to the irrigation store for a low-flow sprayer is a great idea. We use the nozzle from a garden-spray pump, it's very water friendly and gives a very suitable and adjustable playa shower. 4-5 minute shower for about 1 gallon. Even better if you turn it off to soap up. I used some adapters from the Irrig store to connect the nozzle to a hose that's mounted in the shower stall so it's not hand-held. You'd just have to test the sprayer and adapters to make sure it works with the pressure provided by your Zodi. I'll de-hijack the thread for now, but happy to continue conversation in PM. I still haven't figured out our Evap, so curious how yours works out.

PS, none of my business, but how are you staying on Playa for 14 days? Volunteer crew?
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Re: Playa Tested Greywater Evaporator

Postby captain voltaveus » Sat Jul 12, 2014 7:02 am

Is there a consensus on the optimal material to maximize the evap as water trickles down? Garden wire vs window screen material?

Are most folks modifying their discs to children's sledding saucers to even the flow and prevent warping of the plywood disc?

Thnaks!
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Re: Playa Tested Greywater Evaporator

Postby FIGJAM » Sat Jul 12, 2014 8:15 am

Burlap would be my choice.
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Improvements Water Flow El Subcomandante Marcos

Postby nocturnal_steve » Sat Jul 12, 2014 8:34 am

Hard to believe thread now 8 years strong has evolved into wick/fountain/other evap systems !
I have been using El Subcomandante's design for that long

Must see: For flow rate see this ingenious solution http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ttu8_vS2Uv4
then come back... (thanks to Denise, Dillon, and JennyG)

Here is my 2006 version Image

Here are my 2014 observations & suggestions...

Plywood Warping... use 3/4 inch, paint it black with oil based paint (not porous water based)

Getting the pump to pick up (low level) water.... setup the pool slightly tilted to one side, offset the pump to that edge

Germs... A little bleach is a must

Flow rate... Hardware cloth works best, the idea is to get a flow rate that fills all cells and via surface tension "stretches" the water to a thin sheen.

I struggled with flow, getting water to cascade evenly year after year and spent the better part of my '09 burn obsessively tilting, adjusting.
My only pause was to help when Paul Addis infamously set the Man on fire prematurely, R.I.P Paul

For flow rate see this ingenious solution http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ttu8_vS2Uv4
and the mods I am doing

To make the swiveling part, use

FHT205 - Lasco Residential and Commercial Hose Adpater - 3/4" FHT X 3/4" PVC -
or "Charlotte Swivel Hose adapter" 3/4 x 3/4 or size as needed
Image
This is a cheap part that allows you to put a hose fitting on PVC pipe, You know how a hose fitting swivels so you can turn until you tighten it up?
Just don't tighten. I tested mine and it's fine with almost no leaks. The flow coming from the 12V pump is low pressure.


Image
Here are the parts including another fitting that screws into the adapter


Image
Here is the final assembly ready mount on the top of the evap plate

Thanks to all for inspiration & idea's
See you all soon..
Stay hydrated my friend.
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