cooling your tent or van

Swamp Coolers, Cooler Management, Dry Ice, Misting Systems, and just plain how to beat the heat.

Re: cooling your tent or van

Postby tatonka » Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:14 pm

does the cooler have to be in the sun to work? Can it be shaded and still work?
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Postby FIGJAM » Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:37 pm

Mac, you've found the hitch! :lol:

That fan is a power hog for what it does.

When I think of going any bigger than the 190 cfm it's unicooler time!!!

That fan puts out 250 cfm on low speed for 1.16 amps and you have the option of useing the higher speeds.

Make the cooler twice as wide or you won't have enough intake for the higher speeds.

My playapod is only 288 cubic feet, so all I need is low speed. 8)


Tatonka, It works fine in the shade.

Mine is actually inside the playapod with the cooler pushed against a hatch for the intake.

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Re: cooling your tent or van

Postby MacGlenver » Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:22 pm

What are your thoughts about putting the Endless Breeze fan on top of a bucket? Perhaps the bucket won't provide enough airflow to maximize the use of the Endless Breeze on high, but on low/medium it would be better than the case fan for similar amps (approx). This would allow me to upgrade if the bucket solution doesn't quite cut it without buying a new fan (and I won't have wasted my money on a now semi-useless case fan). I imagine the EB is also more durable than the case fan.

The EB is likely too big for the bucket, but I imagine I could make a workable adapter of some sort and cut out all but the outer 2 inches of the lid to make a big opening. Guess I'd have to do the same for the ducting off of the fan... I wonder if I could use a conical piece of vinyl as ducting from the large fan into my tent. The cone shape would be 10" in diameter to attach to the fan, and would cone down to 4" so i could attach it to regular ducting. It would inflate when the fan was on, and would all store flat for transport.... Edit: As I think about it, an issue with the soft ducting would be kinking when it bends, which would be no good. Probably would want a hard adapter of some sort, maybe like this: http://www.amazon.com/Duct-Reducer-Ductwork-Heating-Duct-Air-Duct-Ventilation-Fittings/dp/B00B79OCFC


Am I making this too hard, and I should just use something bigger than a bucket? Spose the size of the container doesnt matter too much in some ways, given that you can store stuff in it during transport, no?

Thoughts?
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Postby MacGlenver » Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:58 pm

Oh, looks like the EB is actually 14" in diameter, so my adapter would adjust accordingly. Imagine I may have to fashion a hard adapter myself rather than buying a ducting or PVC adapter, as I'm finding their kinda big and fairly expensive.

I can't find the CFM for this model, but it's 10" in diameter and amp performance seems very good from one reviewer (0.53 on high). Spose it could be less than the case fan though if it's a crappy fan (for $20 it may be). http://www.amazon.com/RoadPro-RP73002-Battery-Power-Portable/dp/B001JT77K2/ref=cm_rdp_product

I imagine you did a fair amount of research on larger fans (6 inches, etc) and decided that the case fan was the best bang for the buck/amps?
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Postby FIGJAM » Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:50 pm

Be careful!

Your creativity is about to get the better of you. :lol:

You would'nt need a lid for the bucket as the EB fans flow area happens to be the exact size as that of the bucket.

The problems with that are...

1: You'll never get enough holes in the bucket for the air flow that fan can produce.

2: Getting a good enough seal that ALL the air has to pass through the wet pad.

3: The cone reduction for the ducting will drasticly interfere with the flow.

The fan you linked to looks just like an O2 cool fan knockoff and those tiny blades have no oomph. (tested, failed)

The reason I stuck with the 120mm fan for the bucket design was how it fits inside the pad tube.

Anything else just complicated the ducting.

If you have doughts about the bucket being big enough, build the unicooler.

It's easy to get caught up in a complete redesign and it's a lot of fun, but you'll spend a month playing with coolers instead of building this project in a couple of hours. :lol:

You may have something else that you would rather be doing. 8)

Edit: WOW, just notice that we're over 200,000 views on this thread! :shock:
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Postby MacGlenver » Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:21 pm

Ohhhhhh yeahhhh... the air has to be sure to pass thru the filter. Good call. If I just stuck the EB on top, it would pull a lot of its air from the outside of the filter (pure hot playa air) rather than forcing it to go thru the filter pad. That would be the most critical issue.

Also, good to know that the 10" fan I linked is a POS. Will avoid.

Thanks for the advice, as always!
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Postby Jyman » Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:15 am

Jyman wrote:Image
Photo0651 by J Hy One, on Flickr


Image
Photo0659 by J Hy One, on Flickr

Image
Photo0657 by J Hy One, on Flickr


Image
Photo0654 by J Hy One, on Flickr
Image
Photo0653 by J Hy One, on Flickr

When testing I noticed that putting the fan on 3 is useless in my box. The size of my intake vent doesn't allow enough air through to let the fan really push air at you. I checked this by opening the lid and seeing how the fan breeze kicked properly when the open air was free to move through. It's fine on the 1 or 2 position. I now see what you meant FIGJAM when you recommended having 2-3 square feet of intake vent. I only have around 1.3 I think, just the 12x14" size vent.
Image
Photo0658 by J Hy One, on Flickr


Hey FIGJAM -

Was fun using my cooler last burn for my 8' hexayurt, but I found my design (shown in pic) wasn't giving me the max effect. I was able to have my yurt around 78 to 85 degrees when it was 80-105 outside, but much of that effect may have just been due to the yurt itself. I think the cooler helped some, but I'm shooting for more bang this yr.

Having only one "in" vent wouldn't allow enough intake for the fan to work well on med, and definitely not on high. With the yurt being in the area of 860 cubic ft, I wanted to pump the fan closer to it's 900 cfm limit (or half that).

If I make a box cooler that sits on the outside of the yurt, and has 3 sides of intake vents, will this give me enough air to run the fan on med & high? In other words, can you run your box cooler with 3 intake vents on high?
Or is this why you suggest a double-wide box? Does the interior space of the box also have to be larger in addition to having more "in" vents?

I found this container that's roughly the same size as your box cooler with a minimal enough taper to work with. http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/TOUGH- ... Pid=search
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Postby FIGJAM » Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:51 am

Did you have an exhaust vent on your yurt?

Even on low speed the cooler should have been able to do a complete air exchange every 3 minutes, which should have gotten better results than you're reporting, hence the venting.

When I first saw your cooler the only fault I found was the amount of water it would hold. (constant filling)

Doubleling the width would fix the air flow problem, but I like the "box" in your link.

The box cooler is the same as what the manufacturers call a side draft cooler.

It mounts on the side of the house, as apposed to a down draft cooler that mounts on the roof. 8)
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Postby MacGlenver » Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:14 am

Out of curiosity, why is your vent mounted upside down? Would seem like it would just catch more dust that way. Maybe it avoids sucking dust off the ground or something?
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Postby FIGJAM » Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:02 pm

That's to keep the water flowing to the inside.

It prevents leaks. 8)
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Postby MacGlenver » Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:36 pm

FIGJAM wrote:That's to keep the water flowing to the inside.

It prevents leaks. 8)


Ahh, which would mean i could mount the filter right up against the side without need for a gap. Nice. I may go w/ a 10 gallon tub or one of those 10 gallon trash cans to allow maximum flow w/ the endless breeze. I would probably have to build my own lid for the 10 gallon trash cans, which should be pretty easy, and will allow a lot of water, though I suppose I'll have to be careful that my pump isnt sitting too low for it to lift the water. I bought the one w/ 40" lift, so I should be pretty good. Thx guys!
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Postby unjonharley » Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:17 pm

Having a van and wanting to cool my ride.. Been thinking bout ((easy)) way to do that.. :idea: :idea: Nail up a stand/bridge over the passengers seat.. Use the collapsible yard basket with the H bucket inside.. A foam disc for a top.. Intake air the right hand window, tube hole into yard basket.. Air into H bucket and a center duct hole in the disc for cooled air.. Hook the cooler battery to the van batt. W/switch.. Could even have it cooling the van while I'm shopping..
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Postby oly14 » Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:57 pm

unjonharley wrote:Having a van and wanting to cool my ride..


I have a van to cool too. I have the cooler built and I'm going to work on the van part this weekend. I'm thinking I'll make fitted driver and passenger door window "inserts" out of foam insulation board. I'll then gaffers tape the inserts over the outside of the van windows. With the inserts in, I can roll down the windows without getting (as much) dust in. I'll cut a hole in one insert and run dryer duct from the cooler to the hole in the insulation board. With the window rolled down and mostly sealed by the board, I have my cool air input into the van. On the other side, I'll cut a hole in the board and tape an air filter on for the goes-outa. I'll probably bring a stand/table to put the cooler on so the fan doesn't have to push air from the ground up to door window height. I'm also thinking I'll need a dryer vent on the inside to direct the cool air back into the van and prevent it from blowing straight across the passenger area and out the other side.
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Postby unjonharley » Tue Jul 02, 2013 3:03 pm

I plan to vent the cooler towards the driver floor. My windows slide and lock about 2 inches. that should be good for out vent
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Re:

Postby Dr. Brap » Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:56 pm

ConnieH wrote:Speaking of fans, I got a good deal on 64cfm 92mm fans, so I bought 4 of them (two for me, two for spare or more coolers). I need somewhere around 100cfm for an under 10 minute air exchange in my hexayurt. So my question is - would I get more cfm by mounting 2 fans side by side on the lid of the bucket cooler, or by mounting one fan on the lid and another at the end of the duct (probably will use 4" flexible dryer hose) running from the cooler into the yurt? Since the fans are both the same cfm, it shouldn't slow down the airflow, but will installing them inline increase airflow at all, or just stay the same at 64cfm?


FIGJAM wrote:I dont think putting them inline will boost the flow. If you put 10 64cfm fans in a tube, I think you still have 64cfm. Side by side will add the air flow, But I dont see an easy way to mount the fans to the bucket. You could mount the fans on the wall of the yurt as long as you have everything well sealed from the bucket to the fans. Sort of like a canister vacume cleaner. It doesnt matter where the fans are as long as they can pull the air through the damp pads. maybe an 8" tube from the top of the bucket to the wall of the yurt where you could have your array of fans, but I havent tested it that way.

Hope this helps.


Here's a little light reading on the use of multiple fans:
http://www.ebmpapst-ad.com/media/conten ... rallel.pdf

The gist is that two fans in series should double air pressure and two fans in parallel should double flow rate. In reality both fall short. One bigger fan is better than two smaller fans.
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Postby Jyman » Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:34 pm

FIGJAM wrote:Did you have an exhaust vent on your yurt?


Thanks Figjam! glad u like the trash can link - yep I did have an exhaust on my yurt. And I positioned my intake towards the wind with the exhaust on the opposite wall.

I did have it around 15 degrees less inside, but again that's something a yurt may do alone.

I didn't actually have to refill my water often, just once for the day. Possibly because it wasn't sucking enough air in from outside to cause the ideal amount of evaporation? We only ran it an avg 3 hrs a day.

I should note that I had one of those furnace filters on our window that the cooler was rested against on our inside wall (was trying to minimize dust inside the yurt). That probably reduced how much air the cooler could freely intake from outside. Another mistake was that I never compensated for the gap caused by the taper on my box. That and the lip on my lid made it so I didn't have a flush connection to the intake window.

This yr I'll try a box cooler against my outside wall, with 3 intake vents and the fan facing inside the yurt. NO furnace filter, NO gap at the wall. I'm concerned though how much dust may get in the cooler if it's outside. Does the cooling pad do an okay job of keeping the dust out when your cooler's outside?
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Postby FIGJAM » Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:14 pm

I does'nt matter as all the air has to pass through the pads either way.

I run mine even when the dust is blowing and the cooler filters it out, then it settles to a layer in the bottom of the cooler, but it won't be in the yurt.

You are going to be amazed at the difference the side draft design makes. 8)

Some one on playa for 20 days did'nt buy ice cause they stored thier beer in the box cooler!
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Postby tattoogoddess » Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:05 pm

Not sure if this has been covered or not, but the bucket cooler, what's the max space it will cool? I know my tent (10x16) will be to much I'm sure. It is under a silver light blocking tarp.
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Postby FIGJAM » Wed Jul 03, 2013 6:08 am

You have about 960 cubic feet of space.

The bucket is great up to 600.

With your tent shaded it should still work pretty good.

Make sure it's directed at your sleeping area.
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Postby Jyman » Wed Jul 03, 2013 5:17 pm

FIGJAM-

I've seen how you use wire to secure your pad against the vents, but how are you keeping these corner folds of the pad so well folded and tight against the interior corner of the box?

Image

and what's your take on having the pad partly submerged like this in the water? Does it work better or worse to not have the pad reach the reservoir?

You mentioned u normally run your Endless Breeze on the 1 or 2 setting, but can this design run ok on the 3 setting?

Thanks agaaaaaaaaain! Just picked up this new box from Grainger. http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/TOUGH- ... vc=IDPRRZ1 They had it sent to the local store by LAX in a day. Ready to build
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Postby FIGJAM » Wed Jul 03, 2013 6:26 pm

That picture is is of the original box cooler.

You can fold a creese in the pad fairly easily and it will retain its shape to the cooler.

Having the pad clear to the bottom prevents the water fall sound effect. :lol:
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Postby Jyman » Sat Jul 06, 2013 4:41 pm

\]http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/TOUGH- ... vc=IDPRRZ1

Bummer...just checked out this box here at home and the 12 x 14" vents won't fit on the interior walls because of the box's slight taper. It's a matter of only 1" too tight. I either have to find a way to mount them on the outside or go the "hole punch" route like on the original FIGJAM box cooler.

FIGJAM -

Are holes for venting that much of a problem? Do they leak that bad?
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Postby FIGJAM » Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:07 pm

It's better if they don't leak at all.

You should be able to trim the vents to size without too much trouble.
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Postby BAK3R » Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:54 pm

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Re: cooling your tent or van

Postby maryanimal » Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:20 pm

I'm finally getting my cooler done. All I need now is the battery...yikes! $$ :shock: $$ Tomorrow I'm going to the hardware store to get some screws for the fan!
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Postby Canoe » Sun Jul 07, 2013 2:28 pm

BAK3R wrote:Here is El Swampy Grande

Looking robust!

That's a lot of black plastic. Might benefit from giving the black plastic a coat of aluminum paint for a radiant barrier. Someone on eplaya posted a fairly common spray-can that used actual aluminum as a pigment.
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Postby Bounce530 » Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:01 pm

Sorry if there's an obvious answer to this question, but I didn't see it explained.
What is the battery for if the fan is spliced into the solar panel?
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Postby FIGJAM » Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:17 pm

I'm not sure which post you mean.

I don't use a solar panel, so the pump AND fan run off my battery.

The HF solar pump is 6 volt and the panel that comes with it is just big enough to run it.

My pump is 12 volt.

https://www.greenlivingforu.com/dc-submersible-water-fountain-pump-use-12v-solar-panel-or-battery
Last edited by FIGJAM on Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Postby Bounce530 » Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:23 pm

Oh, I see.
The way I was reading the step-by-step, I thought the fan was spliced into the HF pump, that was run off the solar panel. I didn't see that the panel was not used.
I get it now.
Planning on building a bucket cooler next weekend.
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Re: cooling your tent or van

Postby kstlfido » Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:25 pm

Canoe wrote:
BAK3R wrote:Here is El Swampy Grande

Looking robust!

That's a lot of black plastic. Might benefit from giving the black plastic a coat of aluminum paint for a radiant barrier. Someone on eplaya posted a fairly common spray-can that used actual aluminum as a pigment.


BAK3R-Cool! I'm glad someone tried the garbage canister idea! I was keeping an eye out for one in the local junk shops. How many gallons can you hold in that?
It might benefit from a light color coating; figjam might chime in on this. I think the benefit would be rather small. But it wouldn't hurt to try!

I would have ran continuous duracool pads around the 3 sides with the vents, to make sure no air can creep around the pads. But that's just me. If the pads overlap the vent edges, you should be fine. Are you going to seal all the edges around the fan and top?
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