Fuel delivery on playa and fuel storage rules

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Re: Fuel delivery on playa and fuel storage rules

Postby GreyCoyote » Tue Jun 04, 2013 2:13 pm

unjonharley wrote:Running a generator day and night while others are having quiet time.. It just may end up running on sugar..

Strange things happen on the playa.. Eight tires go flat, beer in a sound mixer and generators die..



If you manage to have a problem with the acoustics generated by a Fisher, you are either a serious douchnozzle or just looking for trouble. Or both.

Incidently, sugar is insoluble in diesel.
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Re: Fuel delivery on playa and fuel storage rules

Postby Savannah » Tue Jun 04, 2013 2:18 pm

Hey, All. :mrgreen:

Let's get back to the topic--if there is anything helpful left to discuss--instead of threatening to tamper with generators, and calling each other names.

Thank you!
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Re: Fuel delivery on playa and fuel storage rules

Postby unjonharley » Tue Jun 04, 2013 2:50 pm

Remind you, In the early evening fumes lay along the ground until the night winds pick up..
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Re: Fuel delivery on playa and fuel storage rules

Postby theCryptofishist » Tue Jun 04, 2013 4:37 pm

mulch wrote:I'll be better at this my first time than you have ever been

Well, not on the smug arrogance so much.
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Re: Fuel delivery on playa and fuel storage rules

Postby mulch » Wed Jun 05, 2013 5:32 am

Sorry. But he started it. I just came initially for a good question and I'm easily baited into letting my inner asshole out. I'll try to control it better. Everyone has one.
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Re: Fuel delivery on playa and fuel storage rules

Postby unjonharley » Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:32 am

Most are not all consuming..
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Re: Fuel delivery on playa and fuel storage rules

Postby Dr Helix » Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:22 am

With all respect, Mulch wasn't the one making veiled threats
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Re: Fuel delivery on playa and fuel storage rules

Postby lemur » Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:50 am

but in a way it brings up an interesting point


while you might have the feeling that you wont have any issues with your storage and safety plan... nefarious actors ..or drunk guys walking around and cutting through your camp might not really give a shit.


joe shmoe accidentally knocks over your fuel when fucking with yer gennie

joe tosses a cigg butt in the wrong spot...

and on and on...

its easy to plan for what YOU and your campmates might do..

not as much for the other well meaning people, and jerks.. out there...
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Re: Fuel delivery on playa and fuel storage rules

Postby unjonharley » Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:08 am

Shade the cans in there own space. Will help keep people back and away.. Run a chain thou the handles and lock them together,, There 40-50k different people same as the real world. How about using one or more of those metal drip pans.. Like you would use in you home garage. Pretty cheap at HF.. Or a water heater pan.. The come in as much as 48 inch @ Home Depot..

I was not making any veiled threat . That kind of shit happens more than you would want to believe..
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Re: Fuel delivery on playa and fuel storage rules

Postby Dr Helix » Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:13 am

Fair enough. It just seemed that based on the back and forth you two were having, it was directed at him as opposed to just a general observation. I've done some fuel storage myself and took most of the precautions you have descibed and it worked well.
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Re: Fuel delivery on playa and fuel storage rules

Postby Savannah » Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:36 am

Dr Helix wrote:With all respect, Mulch wasn't the one making veiled threats


I know. Unjon seemed to be. And Mulch called him a name, which I edited. We didn't need any of that. This is why I said "Hey, All." I was addressing them both.

I'll accept that Unjon may not have been implying that he himself would tamper with someone's generator, but it looked that way, as he set a certain tone at the beginning of the thread.

I appreciate that we seem to be back on track. Lemur has made an excellent point about strangers MOOPing & cutting through camp adding to the dangers of borderline setups, and Unjon is back to brainstorming. Thanks, guys.
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Re: Fuel delivery on playa and fuel storage rules

Postby A-RockLeFrench » Thu Jun 06, 2013 7:40 am

Nice to see that some order of civility has been restored to an eplaya thread. I feel safe jumping back in now, thanks Savannah!

Anyways, as far as looking for the minimum needed to get by, in the sense of a few hundred dollars. Fuck yes. Excess is stupid. Which is why I go to burning man.

But seriously, for safety's fucking sake, for an asshole like me who's never built a storage area and secondary containment for fuel storage and is building an art car it would be damn convenient if the people who pretend to tell me what kind of fire extinguisher to bring would actually tell me what kind of fire extinguisher I should bring. If I go and buy a couple class B fire extinguishers, put them next to the fuel storage and Joe Shmoe flips a cigarette in the wrong spot and some bystander grabs the conspicuously placed CO2 extinguisher to put out the flames but oh no! It's windy! And everyone (but me) knows that a CO2 extinguisher isn't effective enough in 60 mph gale force winds to subdue burning gasoline...

But it's not convenient, so now I have to call the fuel delivery guys, and call the guy who's building the flamethrower and probably even the local fire department and figure it out myself. Because while its important to me not spend hundreds of dollars if I don't have to, it is also very important to know the right fucking extinguisher to bring. Damn inconvenient. :evil:
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Re: Fuel delivery on playa and fuel storage rules

Postby unjonharley » Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:22 am

A couple of buckets of playa and a shovel will go a long way on a fire..

Back in the day, U S Parks and must states required camper (some times travelers) to have a bucket and shovel..
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Re: Fuel delivery on playa and fuel storage rules

Postby EspressoDude » Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:38 am

Not to throw fuel on the fire, but the info on the BM website is very likely to be correct. If you harass someone about 'that's too much $ or overkill', they are not going to fight with you. Extinguishers will not be counted at the gate on the way in. But there are patrols that do look at fuel storage in camps.

If you are spending money for extinguishers, ask the people at the safety supply store, they know "gasoline fire in wind?" What kind of extinguishers do you see around other projects on the playa?
It is primarily you and your stuff you are initially protecting. Do you drive 90mph to BM on four bald tires that have the threads showing? Anal sex without a condom? Do what you need to do to protect yourself and the playa from fire and spills.

There is over 20,000 gallons of fuel in the city that is not in vehicle fuel tanks, but in storage for generators, MV's and art. There is potential for serious problems if folks are not thinking safe around fuel storage within the camps.

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Re: Fuel delivery on playa and fuel storage rules

Postby mulch » Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:14 am

So hdpe is fuel resistant, most plastic gas cans are hdpe. I'm going to use this to line the boxes our cans are in.
Much cheaper than other options I've seen. They even list petrochemical containment in the description.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/9-x-10-20mil-HD ... 20d0a0f1b7
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Re: Fuel delivery on playa and fuel storage rules

Postby trilobyte » Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:41 am

A-RockLeFrench (and others), sorry that your life has been inconvenienced by the need to be radically self reliant, but it's probably a good idea to actually learn some things for yourself. Should the unthinkable happen and a mutant vehicle that you brought out to the playa suddenly find itself on fire (in the bad way), do you want to risk other people getting hurt or possible loss of life because you didn't know what you were doing? Do the work, do the research, check a few sources. Both to ensure that you can handle and store it, and also to be able to deal with worst-case scenarios. Seek opinions here. Read the posted information on the main site. Do your own research on the internet (though if you really want to see inconvenient, imagine having to physically go to different places to learn all this, instead of surf from wherever you happen to be). Once you've got your plans and are sure they meet or exceed any requirements for the amount of fuel you're bringing, if you have any questions or want to 'sanity check' it before you go, send a message to fuel@burningman.com.

mulch, that pond liner looks like a great solution.
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Re: Fuel delivery on playa and fuel storage rules

Postby A-RockLeFrench » Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:41 am

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Re: Fuel delivery on playa and fuel storage rules

Postby BurnerBunny » Sun Jul 28, 2013 12:55 pm

I have a honda eu2000i generator, and I plan on running it 3-4 hours a day to keep the hexayurt cool enough to sleep in late mornings to noonish using a portable 8000btu AC unit (800w), plus an hour or two at night for charging things or powering lights. I'm having a hard time figuring out how much gasoline to bring, but my estimates are somewhere in the 2-5 gallons per day (I'm doing some test runs next weekend to narrow that number down).

For the week, that gives me a range of 14-35 gallons. I'd like to only bring a 6 gallon extended tank I have for the generator, and an extra 5 gallon can and get them refilled as needed, but having a hard time finding information about buying fuel on the playa.

    Do the fuel delivery companies only do diesel, and only for large orders?
    Can you get regular gasoline (87 octane) delivered for small orders on the playa?
    if so do you need to figure it out in advance, or can you get it setup once you're on the playa?
searching for "buying fuel" sent me to this thread, but so far I don't know anything more about buying fuel on the playa and now I'm more confused about what kinds of fire extinguishers and containment I'll need. oh well, if it wasn't an adventure just to get prepared it wouldn't be as fun :)
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Re: Fuel delivery on playa and fuel storage rules

Postby GreyCoyote » Sun Jul 28, 2013 1:39 pm

BurnerBunny wrote:I have a honda eu2000i generator, and I plan on running it 3-4 hours a day to keep the hexayurt cool enough to sleep in late mornings to noonish using a portable 8000btu AC unit (800w), plus an hour or two at night for charging things or powering lights. I'm having a hard time figuring out how much gasoline to bring, but my estimates are somewhere in the 2-5 gallons per day (I'm doing some test runs next weekend to narrow that number down).

For the week, that gives me a range of 14-35 gallons. I'd like to only bring a 6 gallon extended tank I have for the generator, and an extra 5 gallon can and get them refilled as needed, but having a hard time finding information about buying fuel on the playa.

    Do the fuel delivery companies only do diesel, and only for large orders?
    Can you get regular gasoline (87 octane) delivered for small orders on the playa?
    if so do you need to figure it out in advance, or can you get it setup once you're on the playa?
searching for "buying fuel" sent me to this thread, but so far I don't know anything more about buying fuel on the playa and now I'm more confused about what kinds of fire extinguishers and containment I'll need. oh well, if it wasn't an adventure just to get prepared it wouldn't be as fun :)


Bunz: You may not need to worry about getting fuel delivered at all.

An EU2000i will burn about one gallon of fuel in 4 hours at 1600 watts of load. At 800 watts load, you will get about 7 hours per gallon. Just to be safe maybe figure you need about 1.5 gals per day, but I have a feeling this will be overkill. Maybe you could pack this much in without much effort?

Thinking out loud here: If you have the extended run 6 gal tank, and the Honda itself starts out the burn with a full tank (1 gal), then adding just one more 6 gallon gas can gives you 13 gallons... or about 90 hours of runtime at your loads. That should be plenty of power, something along the lines of 12 hours per day, even after your neighbors decide to raid your powerstrip for "just one more quick charge". :mrgreen:

Quick suggestions for you to maximize whatever you decide to bring, fuel-wise:
1). Switch to the best synthetic oil you can find. On a lightly loaded generator, this can make quite a difference on fuel economy.
2). Change the spark plug before you go. Best five bucks you can spend IMHO.
3). Add a little Marvel Mystery Oil, or other top-cylinder lube to your fuel.
4). Use only the freshest gas you can find and keep it out of the sun.
5). The "Eco" setting, if your AC will tolerate it, makes a big difference in burn rate. Use it if you can.
6). Start your Honda up on the "Eco" setting, and let it warm-up for a couple of minutes before you put a load on it. When shutting it off, reverse this order. This isn't a fuel-economy thing, but it makes for a happier Honda in the long-term.

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Re: Fuel delivery on playa and fuel storage rules

Postby BurnerBunny » Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:33 pm

Thanks for the advice grey coyote.

If I'm reading this chart right, I should use 10W-30 oil with API service classification of SJ, whatever that is. Page 28: http://cdn.powerequipment.honda.com/pe/ ... Z07610.pdf

I'll make sure it's a high quality synthetic. I'm a planner, I already have a full changing kit setup (extra spark plug, 2 extra air filters, oil pan, and an easy pour attachment for filling/draining the generator).

So i might be able to get by with my 1 gallon generator tank, 6 gallon extended tank, and 5 gallon can. But in case I do run low, can I get gasoline delivered on the playa?
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Re: Fuel delivery on playa and fuel storage rules

Postby mulch » Sun Jul 28, 2013 6:54 pm

And if you are able to fill up in Gerlach and have a safety margin with you vehicle, bring siphoning equipment.
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Re: Fuel delivery on playa and fuel storage rules

Postby A-RockLeFrench » Sun Jul 28, 2013 7:31 pm

How much gas are you planning on using? As far as I'm aware after calling Sierra fuels is that the only option for gasoline delivery on playa is by the 55 gallon drum.
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Re: Fuel delivery on playa and fuel storage rules

Postby pink » Sun Jul 28, 2013 8:35 pm

BurnerBunny wrote:I have a honda eu2000i generator, and I plan on running it 3-4 hours a day to keep the hexayurt cool enough to sleep in late mornings to noonish using a portable 8000btu AC unit (800w), plus an hour or two at night for charging things or powering lights. I'm having a hard time figuring out how much gasoline to bring, but my estimates are somewhere in the 2-5 gallons per day (I'm doing some test runs next weekend to narrow that number down).

For the week, that gives me a range of 14-35 gallons. I'd like to only bring a 6 gallon extended tank I have for the generator, and an extra 5 gallon can and get them refilled as needed, but having a hard time finding information about buying fuel on the playa.

    Do the fuel delivery companies only do diesel, and only for large orders?
    Can you get regular gasoline (87 octane) delivered for small orders on the playa?
    if so do you need to figure it out in advance, or can you get it setup once you're on the playa?
searching for "buying fuel" sent me to this thread, but so far I don't know anything more about buying fuel on the playa and now I'm more confused about what kinds of fire extinguishers and containment I'll need. oh well, if it wasn't an adventure just to get prepared it wouldn't be as fun :)


Are you sure you need a/c for a hexayurt? A mister or Figjam's swamp cooler should keep a yurt cool all day. My campmate's yurt stays comfy all day with just a mister.
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Re: Fuel delivery on playa and fuel storage rules

Postby BurnerBunny » Mon Jul 29, 2013 10:59 am

pink wrote:Are you sure you need a/c for a hexayurt? A mister or Figjam's swamp cooler should keep a yurt cool all day. My campmate's yurt stays comfy all day with just a mister.


my northern european genes require that I have AC to sleep regardless of outside climate, otherwise I'm severely cranky. I would be comfortable sleeping naked outside in the snow, but since I haven't found a camp that provides that yet I'm sticking with AC :wink:
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Re: Fuel delivery on playa and fuel storage rules

Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:35 am

You could do what this half polish, quarter german does when she needs to sleep in hot places--wet hand towel on the trunk.
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Re: Fuel delivery on playa and fuel storage rules

Postby unjonharley » Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:52 pm

How about a nice lighting strike on you stored fuel...
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Re: Fuel delivery on playa and fuel storage rules

Postby mulch » Fri Aug 16, 2013 6:41 pm

Since I started this, here is what we ended up with. 7 5 gal Jerry Cans for gasoline in an outdoor plastic utility chest lined with HDPE liner, and a bonefide containment palate for a drum of diesel. And fire extinguishers and liquor of course.
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Re: Fuel delivery on playa and fuel storage rules

Postby Canoe » Fri Aug 16, 2013 7:01 pm

are you sure those are all approved colors? :)
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Re: Fuel delivery on playa and fuel storage rules

Postby unjonharley » Fri Aug 16, 2013 8:04 pm

Canoe wrote:are you sure those are all approved colors? :)

That was my first thought.. Most stations wont fill anything that is not red. I'm leaving two OD green cans home this year.. Will clean and paint this winter..
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Re: Fuel delivery on playa and fuel storage rules

Postby mulch » Fri Aug 16, 2013 8:46 pm

so you're saying I should use self serve?
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