Shouldn't Burning Man be more like Bonnaroo ?

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Shouldn't Burning Man be more like Bonnaroo ?

Postby lemur » Wed May 01, 2013 1:33 pm

lately when some noobie comes into the burning man art scene and gets the typical 'fund raising' [1][2] how-to-beg welcome.. theres at least one brave person who dishes out the hard truth and says "burning man is about radical self reliance[3], it was much nicer when everyone wasnt begging me for money for their shitty art.[4]" I say the event would be better if there were fewer begging fucktards making art and more 'i-can-actually-afford-to-do-this-because-im-not-being-a-bitch-who-plans-too-big-for-their-budget[5]' people making art ... there would be fewer huge things, there would be fewer fucktards feeling like they 'participated' because they got a sticker and spent $5 on kickstater .. the art might not be 'as good' [6].. but at least all those fuckers wouldnt be begging us to pay for their shit[7] every year. It's not that im mean, i like big art[8]... but really, ..fuck you guys.. stop paying to allow these fucktards to build huge ass shit[9], at least when you go to bonnarroo to passively consume some egoistic fucktard wanking on a guitar they didnt guilt trip you to donate[12] so that they could fix the alternator on their van[10] (really, its in there) . youre being far too nice[11].





[1] http://www.burningman.com/participate/s ... funds.html
[2] viewforum.php?f=328
[3] http://www.burningman.com/whatisburning ... iples.html
[4] http://chickenjohn.us/cgi-bin/dada/mail ... 812125343/
[5] http://www.opulenttemple.org/archives/000114.php
[6] http://galleries.burningman.com/photos/postg/postg.5000
[7] http://unseendenver.com/wp-content/uplo ... 579522.jpg
[8] http://www.wired.com/underwire/2007/08/crude-awakening/
[9] http://laughingsquid.com/the-temple-of- ... avid-best/
[10] http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/dac ... g-ma/posts
[11] http://www.flickr.com/photos/eponai/141814289/
[12] http://bm.tribe.net/thread/de7b53e4-d6b ... d14a6eed1a
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Re: Shouldn't Burning Man be more like Bonnaroo ?

Postby lemur » Wed May 01, 2013 1:53 pm

id like to quote a one Mr OWL from tribe, linked above.. for those who might not see it..

Here's how it works: If you can't afford your theme camp, throw a fucking bake sale. Or something. Live within your means, and get creative with your limitations, but don't harsh my already frayed and fragile tourist-addled mellow with your entitlement trip. Burning Man is about self-reliance.
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Re: Shouldn't Burning Man be more like Bonnaroo ?

Postby EspressoDude » Wed May 01, 2013 3:22 pm

"Applause"

some huge projects need help, like Burn Wall Street, Trojan Horse, etc.

But it is beginning to seem like too much kickstarter fund MY art car, particularly on other social media sites. 8 - 10 people can ride on them, sometimes more if one has the physical 'attributes'. so why beg a community of thousands for money so someone can hope to get laid?
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Re: Shouldn't Burning Man be more like Bonnaroo ?

Postby 48_love » Wed May 01, 2013 3:56 pm

Isn't this a vote with your dollars scenario?

I don't expect to like everything I witness at or about Burning Man.

Perhaps Radical Inclusion could be a useful thought tool to help get past what may seem objectionable from your individual perspective.
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Re: Shouldn't Burning Man be more like Bonnaroo ?

Postby ygmir » Wed May 01, 2013 4:30 pm

EspressoDude wrote:"Applause"

some huge projects need help, like Burn Wall Street, Trojan Horse, etc.

But it is beginning to seem like too much kickstarter fund MY art car, particularly on other social media sites. 8 - 10 people can ride on them, sometimes more if one has the physical 'attributes'. so why beg a community of thousands for money so someone can hope to get laid?


this^^
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Re: Shouldn't Burning Man be more like Bonnaroo ?

Postby International Incident » Wed May 01, 2013 5:03 pm

Don't lump them all with the same brush...

Even small groups need some funds from "their" friends.

For some groups having the indigofundkickstarter is their way of getting the funds within their community - for example I can't attend a bake sale for a friends art project in the USA but I can send them some money and buy the swag/cake. I don't think all the projects are begging from EVERYBODY - some are just using the crowd funding platforms as a way to run a "cyber" bake sale. And i don't have a problem with that. In fact it helps me (all the way over here) because instead of having to send my friends a cheque (bloody expensive) I can just pay using my credit card.

But the ones that want me to fund their art car or fix their transmission - well they can fuck off.
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Re: Shouldn't Burning Man be more like Bonnaroo ?

Postby robbidobbs » Wed May 01, 2013 5:24 pm

I get this shit constantly. Just imagine the goal of what you want to do,. Then scale it DOWN to what you PERSONALLY can afford/do/produce/setup. When you DO have volunteers jamming your cell phone with their desire to help, then scale it UP.

Simple.

In the mean time: it might look good on paper, but get over yourself.

BTW: Bonnaroo sucked when you compare BM porta pottie enjoyment.

No shit.
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Re: Shouldn't Burning Man be more like Bonnaroo ?

Postby Simon of the Playa » Wed May 01, 2013 5:44 pm

robbidobbs wrote:I get this shit constantly. Just imagine the goal of what you want to do,. Then scale it DOWN to what you PERSONALLY can afford/do/produce/setup. When you DO have volunteers jamming your cell phone with their desire to help, then scale it UP.

Simple.

In the mean time: it might look good on paper, but get over yourself.

BTW: Bonnaroo sucked when you compare BM porta pottie enjoyment.

No shit.


this.

BurnStarter™ and FlamieGogo™ is seriously getting out of fucking hand.

or fucking hand out as the case may be.
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Re: Shouldn't Burning Man be more like Bonnaroo ?

Postby Roberto Dobbisano » Wed May 01, 2013 5:45 pm

this from the person who sells his flesh to raise money...


pot? kettle? Black?
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Re: Shouldn't Burning Man be more like Bonnaroo ?

Postby H.G.Crosby » Wed May 01, 2013 5:47 pm

oh pshaw.

it's evolved from a cheap con to a long term art project...








now send simon $28.80 :twisted:
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Re: Shouldn't Burning Man be more like Bonnaroo ?

Postby Simon of the Playa » Wed May 01, 2013 5:49 pm

you KNOW that just barely covers the cost of the tattoos and the drugs, just sayin...

it's a slim margin.
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Re: Shouldn't Burning Man be more like Bonnaroo ?

Postby Roberto Dobbisano » Wed May 01, 2013 5:52 pm

besides, i think you listed last years schmuck run - tattoo drive as a religious fundraiser on indiegogo...

maybe this year you can sell stuff on etsy.







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Re: Shouldn't Burning Man be more like Bonnaroo ?

Postby H.G.Crosby » Wed May 01, 2013 5:54 pm

handmade feathered leg warmers.


i'll post it to the FB BM page asap...
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Re: Shouldn't Burning Man be more like Bonnaroo ?

Postby mulch » Wed May 01, 2013 6:08 pm

I had no idea that perfect strangers would pitch in for some stupid ass idea that I might sell to them I the Internet.

Thank you for bringing that to my attention. I really don't know how I feel about it.

Is it like spam that I have to delete? A pan handler that I have to fear or ignore or donate to? A red kettle at Christmas?

FWIW I'm spending my kids college money on my project. Maybe they can recoup it on kick start some day.
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Re: Shouldn't Burning Man be more like Bonnaroo ?

Postby aserendipity » Wed May 01, 2013 7:13 pm

Well said !
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Re: Shouldn't Burning Man be more like Bonnaroo ?

Postby trilobyte » Wed May 01, 2013 7:24 pm

Putting on my devil's advocate hat for a minute...

Lemur's just feeling left out because he's never done anything big that he had to pay for ;)

Simon, don't forget your camp did some pretty deplorable shit last year in the name of fundraising.

Taking the hat back off… art is subjective, and I think fundraising for art is even more subjective (because there's personal opinions about the methods used to raise money as well as personal opinions of the project in question). I've got mixed feelings on it, myself, but people have been doing different things (selling schwag, throwing parties, etc) long before I started participating in the event. As has always been the case, voting with your wallet is pretty effective. Think somebody's plan is weak or they're being greedy, don't support 'em (and don't post in their threads). Think it's a great and worthy cause, help out in whatever way you can.

Putting the mod hat on for a second, I'll point out that the guidelines for fundraising on ePlaya can be found here.
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Re: Shouldn't Burning Man be more like Bonnaroo ?

Postby unjonharley » Wed May 01, 2013 7:31 pm

your sure not finding "perfect" strangers on e playa..
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Re: Shouldn't Burning Man be more like Bonnaroo ?

Postby uncle sticky » Wed May 01, 2013 7:34 pm

EspressoDude wrote:"Applause"

some huge projects need help, like Burn Wall Street, Trojan Horse, etc.

But it is beginning to seem like too much kickstarter fund MY art car, particularly on other social media sites. 8 - 10 people can ride on them, sometimes more if one has the physical 'attributes'. so why beg a community of thousands for money so someone can hope to get laid?


the only impact my art car project ever had on my sex life was pissing off my significant other so badly I didn't get laid for weeks before or after the burn. During? Not even a possibility.
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Re: Shouldn't Burning Man be more like Bonnaroo ?

Postby theCryptofishist » Wed May 01, 2013 7:52 pm

Footnotes! You want me to read footnotes!! That's taking eplaya to a whole new level. A level that some think is too much!

Unless, of course, this newfangled footnote thing is a way to keep newbs intimidated. Then, I'm all in favor.
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Re: Shouldn't Burning Man be more like Bonnaroo ?

Postby International Incident » Wed May 01, 2013 8:05 pm

Simon of the Playa wrote:
robbidobbs wrote:I get this shit constantly. Just imagine the goal of what you want to do,. Then scale it DOWN to what you PERSONALLY can afford/do/produce/setup. When you DO have volunteers jamming your cell phone with their desire to help, then scale it UP.

Simple.

In the mean time: it might look good on paper, but get over yourself.

BTW: Bonnaroo sucked when you compare BM porta pottie enjoyment.

No shit.


this.

BurnStarter™ and FlamieGogo™ is seriously getting out of fucking hand.


I never did get my schwag from a certain sound camp that I ordered through BurnStarter...
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Re: Shouldn't Burning Man be more like Bonnaroo ?

Postby Savannah » Wed May 01, 2013 9:10 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:Footnotes! You want me to read footnotes!! That's taking eplaya to a whole new level. A level that some think is too much!

Unless, of course, this newfangled footnote thing is a way to keep newbs intimidated. Then, I'm all in favor.


You rarely use big font.

. . . You liked it. :shock:

J'accuse!
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Re: Shouldn't Burning Man be more like Bonnaroo ?

Postby theCryptofishist » Wed May 01, 2013 9:14 pm

Savannah wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:Footnotes! You want me to read footnotes!! That's taking eplaya to a whole new level. A level that some think is too much!

Unless, of course, this newfangled footnote thing is a way to keep newbs intimidated. Then, I'm all in favor.


You rarely use big font.

. . . You liked it. :shock:

J'accuse!

No wonder I never use big font. If people mistake outrage for approval--totally non-consensual.
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Re: Shouldn't Burning Man be more like Bonnaroo ?

Postby Savannah » Wed May 01, 2013 9:18 pm

I thought I'd already seen standard outrage, at regular size.
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Re: Shouldn't Burning Man be more like Bonnaroo ?

Postby 48_love » Wed May 01, 2013 11:15 pm

at the end of the day, it's about the art of the possible .. and like i'd interrogate someone on how they paid for transport?

"did you submit a resume somewhere?"

*glaring*

"you got hired and spent the wages they gave you there on burningman?"

*filled with consternation*

"can't you live within your means?"

*righteous*

"look at my packing job"

*toothy vanna white gesticulations*

lol
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Re: Shouldn't Burning Man be more like Bonnaroo ?

Postby BBadger » Wed May 01, 2013 11:40 pm

That was a beautiful piece, especially the escalating footnotes.
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Re: Shouldn't Burning Man be more like Bonnaroo ?

Postby Simon of the Playa » Thu May 02, 2013 5:20 am

Simon, don't forget your camp did some pretty deplorable shit last year in the name of fundraising.



just one of the many reasons i am not a member of that camp anymore.


I never did get my schwag from a certain sound camp that I ordered through BurnStarter...



this somehow does not surprise me, as many promises were broken.


like i said, i washed my hands, there is no mea culpa here...
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Re: Shouldn't Burning Man be more like Bonnaroo ?

Postby Roberto Dobbisano » Thu May 02, 2013 5:22 am

and i do know that everyone who purchased a tattoo, and even some that didnt, got put on simon's arms.


at least that fundraiser was legit... :twisted:
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Re: Shouldn't Burning Man be more like Bonnaroo ?

Postby Simon of the Playa » Thu May 02, 2013 5:52 am

In all seriousness International Incident, if you want a tshirt from THAT camp i have a couple extra, pm me your address and ill mail you one.

Ill wash it first...
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Re: Shouldn't Burning Man be more like Bonnaroo ?

Postby AntiM » Fri May 03, 2013 6:57 am

Grand projects need grand funding, but funding a deluxe camp or a mutant vehicle I will not enjoy isn't on my agenda. If an art project needs support, I may donate, there's a few I find wonderful, but theme camps? Not so much.

There's a couple reasons I won't escalate my project or my camp beyond the chickenwire panels and the 3~7 person camp. If we can't pay for it out of pocket, it won't happen. I will not fundraise and subject my vision to the pocketbook expectations of others. I accept art donations or art supplies, but nothing else. I don't even like asking for an art grant for E-11 because the nature of my project has a lot of reuse/recycle and adding it all up with receipts is near impossible. The regional grant specifies that no funds shall be used for tools and other permanent additions such as generators. So If I want a fancier thingamabob, I pay for it and make less art. If I want more art, I make do with what old camp infrastructure I have. Or I splurge on both and don't go to a few movies.

More campmates means more drama, and I don't want that in my home. I love my immediate campmates, but some of the playa wives and friends of friends just fry my last nerve. And I gots lots of nerves lately.
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Re: Shouldn't Burning Man be more like Bonnaroo ?

Postby ygmir » Fri May 03, 2013 7:23 am

AntiM wrote:Grand projects need grand funding, but funding a deluxe camp or a mutant vehicle I will not enjoy isn't on my agenda. If an art project needs support, I may donate, there's a few I find wonderful, but theme camps? Not so much.

There's a couple reasons I won't escalate my project or my camp beyond the chickenwire panels and the 3~7 person camp. If we can't pay for it out of pocket, it won't happen. I will not fundraise and subject my vision to the pocketbook expectations of others. I accept art donations or art supplies, but nothing else. I don't even like asking for an art grant for E-11 because the nature of my project has a lot of reuse/recycle and adding it all up with receipts is near impossible. The regional grant specifies that no funds shall be used for tools and other permanent additions such as generators. So If I want a fancier thingamabob, I pay for it and make less art. If I want more art, I make do with what old camp infrastructure I have. Or I splurge on both and don't go to a few movies.

More campmates means more drama, and I don't want that in my home. I love my immediate campmates, but some of the playa wives and friends of friends just fry my last nerve. And I gots lots of nerves lately.


and, don't show up to visit wearing a certain hat...............hahhaaahahaa, one of my favorite moments ever on playa.
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