Denied! OUch!

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Denied! OUch!

Postby uncle sticky » Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:49 am

DMV says no! Trying to appeal the decision by addressing their concerns, but it must be getting tougher this year. I've brought this MV before, but I had some problems with it, so maybe they just think I suck and can't bring it. They might be right.
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Re: Denied! OUch!

Postby TomServo » Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:29 am

Did the Hotties explain their concerns before? If so, those concerns were kept on file. Sorry you didn't get in! Ive worked with the DMV, and honestly, denying MV's sucks! I had to deny a guy with a VW van, completely covered with drift wood. I thought it was beautiful!..though obviously not within the guidelines. I asked about his lighting, and advised him to apply for a night license. I hope he got it. I would hope, appealing your decision will buy you time to make the needed changes...as you have NO chance on the playa.
also..if a certain number of complaints were filed against your MV, for driving dangerously, oil spots.. you would possibly be banned for future events.
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Re: Denied! OUch!

Postby junglesmacks » Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:01 am

Did you make sure to tell them that you're a burner so fuck you?
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Re: Denied! OUch!

Postby uncle sticky » Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:23 pm

I think the fact that I had an implosion that year, and the MV wasn't completed the way I wanted it to be, probably hurt. I've appealed, explaining what I'll be doing to address the shortcomings, so hopefully they'll accept that my act is a bit more together for this year. What I ended up having on playa definitely wasn't what I had hoped to accomplish, so I can't fault them for their decision.
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Re: Denied! OUch!

Postby Captain Goddammit » Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:57 pm

Well do tell... what is it? Maybe we can brainstorm or critique or whatever to get it license-able.
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Re: Denied! OUch!

Postby uncle sticky » Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:11 pm

It's the Rigged to Flip project. Basically it's a whitewater raft on a base vehicle. The big criticism was that they could see the base vehicle, tires, chassis. I had intended to put skirting around, and light up underneath. The skirting is the issue. I was thinking of doing a chicken wire skirt, with colored fabric and transparent vinyl panels over to give that blue and green water look, with strobe lights underneath to flash blue and green under.
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Re: Denied! OUch!

Postby Captain Goddammit » Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:56 pm

Well that certainly has potential to be cool! Can you post a picture?
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Re: Denied! OUch!

Postby uncle sticky » Wed Mar 27, 2013 6:00 pm

So this was the beast at 4th of Juplaya
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https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/261764_2139904586427_3869141_n.jpg

And another pic of it on playa.
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Re: Denied! OUch!

Postby ygmir » Wed Mar 27, 2013 7:31 pm

cool idea, but I can totally see why they denied it, based on "mutation".
and,

"" I was gonna.......I was thinking........I meant to......." do feed the bulldog.

looks like it has great potential, though if folks can get off and on.
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Re: Denied! OUch!

Postby uncle sticky » Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:13 pm

I think a lower base vehicle makes it much easier to get off and on. And covering up the base mechanics will make it much more attractive.
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Re: Denied! OUch!

Postby Captain Goddammit » Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:23 pm

Yeah actually I like it! It couldn't be too hard to skirt the thing, which also gives you the opportunity to backlight the skirting.
How is it powered? If it's gas, I always recommend my tried-and-true favorite, the junkyard-sourced GM CS-130 alternator, readily scrounged from late 80s - mid 90s GM small cars or S10 pickups. Those units put out lots of current at idle speed. Maybe you can mount one in there somewhere. Then use a battery and inverter and mount cheap 4' fluorescent shop light fixtures under it. Maybe wrap the bulbs in blue celophane, and slip some of those clear plastic bulb-protector tubes over them. That's probably the most, brightest light you can get for the cheapest and not too much power draw. On a cheap inverter you gotta plug in the lamps one at a time until they are all on, but it'll work.

I'm guessing you'll have to get right on skirting and lighting it and send photos to get a reconsideration, but you could just plug the lights into an extension cord for the photos then get the onboard power sorted out before arriving for on-playa inspection.

Fix that thing up, it's cool!
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Postby lemur » Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:15 am

it is certainly a mutated something....but yeah i can see that being denied.. it appears to meet the minimum of a mutant vehicle spec in terms of just whats in the photo.. but im not sure if it exceeds that minimum..

theres room for improvement.. especially in the "wow factor" department.. stuff improves every year.. WOW is changin ! are you?

as it is.. im not sure what it is supposed to be. i know im seeing the 'base vehicle' (some motor stuff) with a boat thing on top..

a skirt might help, but it might not be enough to up the apparent level of mutation compared to the other applicants who all might be doing JAWESOME STUFF this year..

it can surely be made to make a bigger impact by doing something to make it into a more cohesive 'something'
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Re: Denied! OUch!

Postby Captain Goddammit » Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:07 pm

Well yeah we know what's wrong with it as far as getting a mutant vehicle license, let's figure out how to fix it!
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Re: Denied! OUch!

Postby uncle sticky » Fri Mar 29, 2013 2:51 pm

So far I've got a better cover for the under carriage. Any suggestions on the material? I was thinking of using shower curtain material (might be silly to get one with fish!) in multi-colors, all in that green and blue family, and some iridescent cloth underneath, with chicken wire or similar to provide some structure.

I don't know what else to do? :coffee:
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Re: Denied! OUch!

Postby zerzura » Fri Mar 29, 2013 3:03 pm

What might help take it from - ho-hum to "wow" would be to think beyond just covering the bottom. Make it have a thematic whimsical element to it. You could mount plastic sharks circling the outside; at night they could light up and maybe you could find someone to help "animate" them by el lighting and programming them lunging at the boat. You could have a school of dolphins out in front acting as the chariot horses and decorate the rest of the boat in an over the top queen of the sea theme. You could make it a ghost ship with fake sea kelp dragged all over it and painted on holes and driftwood pieces that make it look like it has been under the ocean for a 100 years. You could make giant ribs out of plaster of paris and make it look like the boat has been swallowed by a whale. Good grief, I just thought of 4 ideas in 3 minutes. You can do this.
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Re: Denied! OUch!

Postby TomServo » Fri Mar 29, 2013 3:36 pm

The creativity is certainly there! If it were 2002, I'd approve it, with stipulations, in a second. Ive seen bars that have video lighting..ie: flames, logos, RAPID WATER? May get you a night license..maybe.. was your meltdown in front of DMV?
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Re: Denied! OUch!

Postby BBadger » Fri Mar 29, 2013 4:00 pm

Come on man! You just stuck wheels on an air-filled boat, and didn't even go through the effort of hiding the wheels and making the boat appear like it is gliding on the surface of the playa. Where's the decoration? Where's the art? Where's the novelty?

Ho-fucking-hum. Put yourself into another person's shoes seeing that "mutant vehicle": would it turn your head? Would it make you grin?

HELL NO. Get that shit out of here.

You might as well have stuck wheels on a picnic table.

What more can be done? Ditch the boat. It doesn't matter what you do to hide the undercarriage. That MV is going to be rejected outright because it's nothing new or fresh. The land-ship is already a cliché on the playa -- but at least other people have ships with wood and masts, or giant-sized boats, or other stuff requiring a decent amount of effort to create. Your mobile cliché is basically a river-rafting boat stapled to a motorized undercarriage. Ho-fucking-hum. DENIED.

You have the motorized undercarriage, make something unique of it. Build an oversized replica of an every-day object -- don't just attach some object to wheels. Create something outrageous and impressive. It could be a giant Easter Island statue with glowing eyes. A giant cookie jar with a severed hand in it. A giant coiled up heap of dog shit with flies floating around it. Make something recognizable as art, not as something you stuck wheels on.
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Re: Denied! OUch!

Postby oscillator » Fri Mar 29, 2013 6:23 pm

One year we got the hammerdown on a meticulously-crafted park bench on wheels. Yes, we butt tested the park bench across a large demographic, it was awesome.
Even had raver fur, a snarky bumper sticker, LEDs and everything.

Still no-go, even tho it was previously OK'd as a trailer. DMV works in mysterious ways.

A giant cookie jar with a severed hand in it sounds good. We like Things-In-Jars.

Things-In-Jars-On-Wheels is even better. Things-In-Jars-On-Wheels-With-Flame-Effects are best.

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Re: Denied! OUch!

Postby Bounce530 » Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:31 pm

zerzura wrote:What might help take it from - ho-hum to "wow" would be to think beyond just covering the bottom. Make it have a thematic whimsical element to it. You could mount plastic sharks circling the outside; at night they could light up and maybe you could find someone to help "animate" them by el lighting


With this idea, try to find the person/people that operate those small RC sharks that run through the crowd during the big burns, and have those sharks "swimming" around your MV.

I'm still sitting on pins and needles waiting for my approval/denial.
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Re: Denied! OUch!

Postby theCryptofishist » Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:06 am

oscillator wrote:A giant cookie jar with a severed hand in it sounds good. We like Things-In-Jars.

Things-In-Jars-On-Wheels is even better. Things-In-Jars-On-Wheels-With-Flame-Effects are best.

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Re: Denied! OUch!

Postby Captain Goddammit » Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:57 am

Bounce530 wrote:I'm still sitting on pins and needles waiting for my approval/denial.


Whadja build? Whadja build?
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Re: Denied! OUch!

Postby uncle sticky » Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:05 pm

I struggle with what Badger has to say, with all creative endeavors at the burn, because he has a point and it brings up a bigger question. I want to build my little art car, and he's right, it's not spectacular, it's a simple riff on what others have done before, etc, etc. So, do I build what I want to do, with the skills and resources I have, knowing it's not a mind blower, but a fun little project? It's that way with art and theme camps too. Burning Man attracts so much talent and money, which results in absolutely brilliant and amazing stuff, which is good. The down side is that I wonder how much room there is for the little guy? What about schmucks like me who don't have a ton of time, and if I'm honest, less skill and almost no talent? This car is no El Pulpo, that's for sure, so should I even bother? Should anyone? Art cars are kind of a special case, since there are limits to the number allowed, but I think the question still applies. If I can't do something spectacular, why would I bother doing anything at all? Then I'm just a spectator, but is that the way the event is going? Catch 22, since Burning Man art of all kinds is getting bigger and better, at some point if you're not a pro, you're a spectator.
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Re: Denied! OUch!

Postby Jackass » Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:16 pm

There's a ton of "creative" lazy asses out there that would love to bring their quad or golf cart barely mutated so that they wouldn't have to walk or bike all week. Nothing new, in the 90's you could have got by with that.
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Re: Denied! OUch!

Postby uncle sticky » Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:38 pm

Appreciate what you're saying, since I know it to be true. Not for me, personally. Life is much easier for me with just my bike, and I love riding on the playa. The art car is a fucking pain in the ass, but even though what I wanted to build (and have built in the past) isn't that spectacular, I do think people like it, and I do think that it adds a little bit to the event. I can't go without doing a project of some sort, I find being a spectator to be really unfulfilling.
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Re: Denied! OUch!

Postby Jackass » Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:19 pm

US, if that's you in your avatar telemarking, then chances are you're not a "Lazy Ass". The problem is if they let one in they have to let them all in.
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Re: Denied! OUch!

Postby uncle sticky » Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:25 pm

Ha, thanks, and yes, it is. My problem is exactly the opposite of lazy. Burning Man is Working Man for me, but it's also true that from an art point of view, I'm really good at my day job.
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Re: Denied! OUch!

Postby Nipple » Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:35 pm

I think badger is trying to inspire you, more than turn you away. It's a great big blue sky filled with possibility, and not to anchor yourself to where you currently are.

My flagrant and uninformed opinion:

Make it pedal powered and go with an electric assist.

Light it up, make it a big dumb mutant bike!
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Re: Denied! OUch!

Postby Savannah » Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:59 pm

uncle sticky wrote:I struggle with what Badger has to say, with all creative endeavors at the burn, because he has a point and it brings up a bigger question.


BBadger does have a really good point, and I'm glad you saw that.

I want to build my little art car, and he's right, it's not spectacular, it's a simple riff on what others have done before, etc, etc. So, do I build what I want to do, with the skills and resources I have, knowing it's not a mind blower, but a fun little project? It's that way with art and theme camps too. Burning Man attracts so much talent and money, which results in absolutely brilliant and amazing stuff, which is good. The down side is that I wonder how much room there is for the little guy? What about schmucks like me who don't have a ton of time, and if I'm honest, less skill and almost no talent? This car is no El Pulpo, that's for sure, so should I even bother? Should anyone? Art cars are kind of a special case, since there are limits to the number allowed, but I think the question still applies. If I can't do something spectacular, why would I bother doing anything at all? Then I'm just a spectator, but is that the way the event is going? Catch 22, since Burning Man art of all kinds is getting bigger and better, at some point if you're not a pro, you're a spectator.


If you focus too much on that you'll get hung up on huge existential whatnot and do nothing; it's a never-ending spiral. I hope you won't try to swim back up that whirlpool, it's too large. I suggest you take a different approach: what noun do you think would be fun to drive around the playa? What object or animal or item do you find funny? Or beautiful? Or is there anything about this year's theme that could be embodied in physical expression?

Once you have a concept, then the means to disguise the undercarriage might be more apparent.

Maybe you'll have time to make a giant shoe or a weasel or a raincloud or a biplane that taxis and taxis and never lands, and maybe it'll be a 2014 thing instead, but if you get stuck in doubt and ruminations about your worthiness, you stand a lot less chance than if you pick something and do your best to make that rig completely unrecognizable.

I've had two friends turned down for allowing too much of the default world to come through in their vehicles. It's a bummer, but I see the point: transport of people is not the first focus. Art is.
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Re: Denied! OUch!

Postby lemur » Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:18 pm

tons of people who dont have lots of time come up with stuff in their garage with chicken wire and whatever was laying around...

its safe to presume that everyone puts lots of effort/time/money into their projects.. from el pupo down to the litttlest thing based on a golf cart.. but more people do sign up than there are spots.. and even tho time and effort was spent those people cannot bring a vehicle, which sucks..

even with some projects needing to be told no i think that all types of vehicles from the lowliest to the awesomest are represented in what is allowed to come.. at least from my perspective as a person working on the application side of things for dmv in the past

the quality level does go up every year.. even the 'greatest' vehicles from years ago might seem kinda crappy compared to what is done these days.. that level is also going up on the smaller garage projects too.


as for the not even trying if you cant do anything spectacular?

id have to say that plenty of things i think are horribly unspectacular make it past the DMV every year ive been involved.. plus they make it through the art grants process!! and remember that year the temple was really crappy?!


i think the majority of vehicles out there are of the small project that anyone with a years worth of weekends and a bit of free money can do variety...
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Re: Denied! OUch!

Postby BBadger » Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:10 pm

uncle sticky wrote:The down side is that I wonder how much room there is for the little guy? What about schmucks like me who don't have a ton of time, and if I'm honest, less skill and almost no talent?


It's like what I say in the Low Income Debate thread: the only difference between someone with a lot of resources and someone with less is time. Spread your effort and resources over more time. Some people take the elevator, some people take a ramp. They can all get to the top eventually.

So put another year into your MV. Refine your idea. Make something great, not half-assed, not rushed. Don't settle.

This car is no El Pulpo, that's for sure, so should I even bother? Should anyone? Art cars are kind of a special case, since there are limits to the number allowed, but I think the question still applies. If I can't do something spectacular, why would I bother doing anything at all?


That's exactly how you should think. Thank the hells the DMV doesn't allow every mundane, strap-on "mutant vehicle" to parade itself around, lowering the standards of the playa. We don't want to see mobile couches, tents, inflatable boats or other boring shit passed off as playa-worthy. THIS IS BURNING MAN! GET THAT SHIT OUT OF HERE! We should expect more -- demand more -- lest we become complacent.

Still, that doesn't imply that you can't create something spectacular, or that "spectacular" means something that is on the scale of some of the larger projects. What makes something "spectacular" is the idea, and more importantly, the art that results from that idea.

Look at some of the smaller projects on the playa that are spectacular. For example, that rotating LED tube that people can stand under and have spun around them by others (I have no idea what it's named). That project has been there every year I've gone, and there is always a crowd surrounding it. Compared to other massive, fire-shooting art projects that project is tiny, and is probably transported on a small trailer. But hey, despite the scale, that rotating LED tube project is exactly the type of interactive project that wins Honorarium grants: a great interactive and entertaining project that draws a crowd and brings a smile. No, it'll never be as big as the Temple or the Man, but it doesn't need to be, and carries its weights all the same.

And for Mutant Vehicles? The ones that most attracted my attention were not the massive land yachts that I'd never be allowed on because I don't have tits, or other bus-sized monstrosities that are allowed in mostly because they're just big. No, the ones that I most enjoyed were the creative small mutant vehicles: the Chinese takeout box, the Yellow Submarine, the bi-plane, the glowing chatter teeth. Those were the MVs that make me ask someone else: "did you just see...??"

An inflatable boat on some wheels? No. I'd be asking "who let that thing in?"

You're already ahead of the game. You have the undercarriage. Now form something spectacular around it. If you don't have the inspiration or the resources, donate it, or bring others on board. But always remember: If you can't do something spectacular, don't bother at all.
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