Testing a Monkey Hut - Fail

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Re: Testing a Monkey Hut - Fail

Postby BBadger » Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:05 am

Heavy duty 12mil Harpster silver tarps are only about $40 on Amazon.com (or Gemplers too, but it costs me shipping). They have free shipping too because they're over $25. Those tarps are very heavy duty, sun blocking, and about 2ft longer than the monkeyhut, but perfectly wide. You can probably fold it over, but we just strung it downwards with some rope.
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Re: Testing a Monkey Hut - Fail

Postby Krokodyle » Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:12 am

Earthwalker wrote:2) I'm using the two 5' sections for each rib, as opposed to the original design of 10' one-section ribs. I don't anticipate any issues with this, BUT, my couplers between the two 5' sections are 2.5' (two and a half foot), with eye bolts in the middle (thanks MDF!). I can upload a pic later, but the ribs just don't look too happy on either side of the couplers. The length of the coupler is too short to allow the rib to bend the way it wants too. It looks strained on either side.


Yes, pictures would be great! I was thinking about a similar modification, since 10' sections would be hard for me to transport, but didn't know where to start. Any info/feedback you can share here would be most welcome. Cheers
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Re: Testing a Monkey Hut - Fail

Postby MyDearFriend » Fri Mar 01, 2013 4:11 pm

Krokodyle wrote:
Earthwalker wrote:2) I'm using the two 5' sections for each rib, as opposed to the original design of 10' one-section ribs. I don't anticipate any issues with this, BUT, my couplers between the two 5' sections are 2.5' (two and a half foot), with eye bolts in the middle (thanks MDF!). I can upload a pic later, but the ribs just don't look too happy on either side of the couplers. The length of the coupler is too short to allow the rib to bend the way it wants too. It looks strained on either side.


Yes, pictures would be great! I was thinking about a similar modification, since 10' sections would be hard for me to transport, but didn't know where to start. Any info/feedback you can share here would be most welcome. Cheers


The Monkey Hut design is very flexible and forgiving. It doesn't have to be exactly straight or precisely curved. This is the HUGE advantage of this shelter; you can put it up in a dust storm after driving forever and not sleeping since you can't remember and drinking beer for breakfast.

As long as the sections are pushed together far enough (don't skip the step where you mark the PVC 15 inches from each end) it won't matter. It really won't. The strain between the coupler and the rebar gives it more stability. If you are worried about it, try positioning your rebar closer in or farther out until it looks happy. Mine are happy in rows that are 12 feet apart (give or take).

The 48" bungees with hold the frame together and your cover will stabilize it.

Put it up and push on it. If it stays up, you're good. 8)
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Re: Testing a Monkey Hut - Fail

Postby Earthwalker » Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:55 pm

BeeWeeDee wrote:I've heard various recommendations on coupler lengths, from 3ft all the way down to 10 inches! 10 inches seems small to me, but I'm thinking of reducing at least down to 2 feet.

thoughts?


I think having 10-12" on each side of the rib joint would be enough. I am also considering pre-bending the couplers to take some of the kink factor out of the remaining rib. Because my tarp was larger than necessary I am going to use 5' and 6' sections to make the skeleton.

Someone suggested using the tarp as your layout guide for the rib stakes. This sounds good for 5 of the 6 stakes - at least the tarp is a square rectangle.


Love the tarp template idea. Seems like a "duh, why didn't I think of that" moment. I wonder if I want to go out a little bit though so that there's that gap at the bottom for airflow. That seems to be another one of those "some do, some don't" sort of options.

So, by 10-12" on "each side" I assume you mean a 20-24" total length of the coupler, ja mon?
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Re: Testing a Monkey Hut - Fail

Postby Frizzboom » Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:24 pm

Build it ahead of time! Even if you only set up three ribs! Make mistakes learn how to fix it! Exclamation points!!!!
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Re: Testing a Monkey Hut - Fail

Postby Earthwalker » Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:12 am

Frizzboom wrote:Build it ahead of time! Even if you only set up three ribs! Make mistakes learn how to fix it! Exclamation points!!!!


Oh for sure. I've already set up the skeleton in the 12x15ft version. Need to build some more ribs and buy a tarp so I can set it up in all of its 12x30ft glory.
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Re: Testing a Monkey Hut - Fail

Postby Grahamr83 » Fri Apr 26, 2013 7:01 am

I must thank everyone for their amazing input and tips, I've learned a lot and have been enlightened... There was even a few good details about MHs. ;)

This will be my first BM, and I'm going to tackle a couple MHs, one for living space which I'll be testing out the 6"-10" from the ground airflow idea for dust removal and a breeze. One thought has come to me, and this may just be my inexperience with BM, but to resolve some of the flapping/loose tarp situations, you could add grommets to edges so there is a place for a bungee ball every 6" instead of 24". Also, what about adding a horizontal bar (rebar or PVC) at half the distance between the tarp edge and ground, affixing it there and using the bungee balls (again at shorter gapped grommets) to anchor down the edges and keep it taut? And probably using the 5' connected ribs with the 20" sleeve. When I start the built on my monkey hut, I'll make to to update and see how it works out. I tent to "Mike Holmes" everything to make it its bloody stable and sound, maybe it's unesseccary.

My other MH will be a mini MH, which I hope to seal off from the wind and playa completely. And this is where I may be completely underestimating the Black Rock Desert... But to put my truck in. (I think I've had a few hilarious replies by some of you on my convertible thread I started http://eplaya.burningman.com/viewtopic.php?f=286&t=64243, but I think I might have solved it.) As you can tell, I really want to bring my truck with the top off, as well as not wanting a pickup full of playa. Anyways, I was going to make a MH that goes right to the ground on all 4 sides with an extra +8" that I will either sandbag or burry into the playa. Cutting, stitching, and sealing the tarp so it fits over the skeleton "perfectly", as one solid piece of tarp. Hopefully that keeps half the desert out of my truck.

Ok, that's my idea. Go big or sleep in the sand, right? Wish me luck!
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Re: Testing a Monkey Hut - Fail

Postby FIGJAM » Fri Apr 26, 2013 7:41 am

Even if you manage an airtight sealed container for your truck, you will pick up a lot of dust on entry and exit from the highway to the gate.

Here's a picture I took between gate and greeters last year and that stretch is only about a mile!

It's about 5 miles from the blacktop to gate.

Image

Image
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Re: Testing a Monkey Hut - Fail

Postby Drawingablank » Fri Apr 26, 2013 7:47 am

Grahamr83 wrote: One thought has come to me, and this may just be my inexperience with BM, but to resolve some of the flapping/loose tarp situations, you could add grommets to edges so there is a place for a bungee ball every 6" instead of 24".

That should only be necessary if you ignore the advice and buy cheap tarps. Quality double layer tarps typically have a closer grommet spacing and are a lot less noisy as well as blocking moire sun and being more durable.


Grahamr83 wrote:Also, what about adding a horizontal bar (rebar or PVC) at half the distance between the tarp edge and ground, affixing it there and using the bungee balls (again at shorter gapped grommets) to anchor down the edges and keep it taut?!

That is over complicating things. String a rope in and out of the grommets on the bottom edge and hook it to a piece of rebar with a bungee. Alternatively just use a ratchet strap at front and back.

I have done it both ways and was happy either way. The ratchet strap doesn't keep the tarp as taut, but when using a heavy duty tarp it isn't much of an issue.
In this photo I didn't stake down the tarp sides. Hut performed well, was not noisy and held up well (this pic was taken on Labor day 2012 after being on the playa for 11 days). Some of the sloppy tarp fit is due to poor measuring for the layout (one corner's rebar was a couple inches off).
Image

In this one from 2011 the layout was perfect and sides were staked in the center, but it was not appreciably better than the setup I used in 2012.
Image

The standard Monkey hut design works very well. if you are going to experiment with modifications be sure to test it under harsh conditions or have a plan B in case it fails on the playa. The two most common causes of MH fails that Ive seen are failure to sleeve the connections properly, or failure to use the correct size tarp.
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Re: Testing a Monkey Hut - WIN!!!

Postby MyDearFriend » Wed May 01, 2013 7:25 am

Thanks for the pix, DAB! You illustrate for us the #1 advantage of the Monkey Hut on-playa, which is the essential sturdiness of the design. It does not have to be perfectly executed in order to work. Even with a solid tarp (which I do not recommend, as shade cloth is much more flexible and forgiving, plus you can add shark-bite grommets every 2 inches if you want to :P ) this structure will work well even if you set it up in a sleep-deprived, dehydrated, chemically-impaired near-coma. :lol: Clueless newbies can do this, stoned elderly can do this, anybody can do this. The measurements and layout and staking and grommets can be off by a wide margin and this shelter will work for you.

I heart my Monkey Huts.

Grahamr83, don't over-think your shelter. KISS. Don't fight the dust or try to exclude it; the best you can do is try to direct it. Accept it. Deal with it.

And Figgy is not kidding about the 5 mile dust party from blacktop to BRC. Your vehicle will be full of dust before you even unload. Share and enjoy. 8)
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Re: Testing a Monkey Hut - Fail

Postby Earthwalker » Wed May 01, 2013 3:45 pm

One thing I've heard over and over on here is: love the dust.

Because whether you love it or hate it, it's going to own you. May as well embrace it.

Is it typical to guy the front and rear ends of the MH? I've seen some people do it (including the pics above) but it's not suggested in the directions. thoughts?
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Re: Testing a Monkey Hut - Fail

Postby lucky420 » Wed May 01, 2013 3:54 pm

MyDearFriend
stoned elderly can do this,


well thank god! :mrgreen:
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Re: Testing a Monkey Hut - Fail

Postby International Incident » Wed May 01, 2013 3:56 pm

Earthwalker wrote:
Is it typical to guy the front and rear ends of the MH? I've seen some people do it (including the pics above) but it's not suggested in the directions. thoughts?


Yes. Highly recommended - just helps hold the damn thing (more) together
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Re: Testing a Monkey Hut - Fail

Postby Earthwalker » Wed May 01, 2013 8:08 pm

Wouldn't the load from the guy wire pull the end rib off the spine? Or do you just counter this by multiple fasteners and load in the opposite direction?

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Re: Testing a Monkey Hut - Fail

Postby International Incident » Wed May 01, 2013 8:17 pm

Earthwalker wrote:Wouldn't the load from the guy wire pull the end rib off the spine? Or do you just counter this by multiple fasteners and load in the opposite direction?

Monkey huts. Man. Fuck-in monkey huts



You put the springy things - you know the octopus/bungee straps on the ribs, that binds them together. then the guy ropes help to keep the whole thing steady. Well that's what I do - YMMV
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Re: Testing a Monkey Hut - Fail

Postby Earthwalker » Wed May 01, 2013 8:29 pm

Cool. Thanks double I!!!
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Re: Testing a Monkey Hut - Fail

Postby Milayna » Wed May 01, 2013 8:59 pm

Earthwalker wrote:One thing I've heard over and over on here is: love the dust.

Because whether you love it or hate it, it's going to own you. May as well embrace it.

Is it typical to guy the front and rear ends of the MH? I've seen some people do it (including the pics above) but it's not suggested in the directions. thoughts?


Hehe, this pic was taken driving into gate line, that's dust on the windshield. I swear no matter how many times I read about how dusty it is, I still was blown away by HOW dusty it was!!! hahaha :)

DUST.jpg
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Re: Testing a Monkey Hut - Fail

Postby International Incident » Wed May 01, 2013 9:39 pm

We are turning my 15ft MH into a 40ft MH this year. This could either go very well or very, very badly.

the first 15ft will be aluminet and the newer (25ft) part will be 90% shade cloth - which means we will be able to settle the age old argument of which is better!

Both ends will be staked down and hopefully no one will die.

I'm sure it will be ok :roll:
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Re: Testing a Monkey Hut - Fail

Postby Savannah » Wed May 01, 2013 10:34 pm

International Incident wrote:We are turning my 15ft MH into a 40ft MH this year. This could either go very well or very, very badly.

the first 15ft will be aluminet and the newer (25ft) part will be 90% shade cloth - which means we will be able to settle the age old argument of which is better!


I can't wait! :lol:
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Re: Testing a Monkey Hut - Fail

Postby International Incident » Wed May 01, 2013 10:49 pm

Savannah wrote:
International Incident wrote: "snip" we will be able to settle the age old argument of which is better!


I can't wait! :lol:


I was thinking of turning it into a "What, Where, When" event. You know. Just because.
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Re: Testing a Monkey Hut - Fail

Postby Savannah » Wed May 01, 2013 10:52 pm

International Incident wrote:
Savannah wrote:
International Incident wrote: "snip" we will be able to settle the age old argument of which is better!


I can't wait! :lol:


I was thinking of turning it into a "What, Where, When" event. You know. Just because.


Oh, that's funny.

. . . Host a debate and serve drinks (or something) and it might make it into the book. :lol:
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Re: Testing a Monkey Hut - Fail

Postby Earthwalker » Thu May 02, 2013 11:27 am

International Incident wrote:We are turning my 15ft MH into a 40ft MH this year. This could either go very well or very, very badly.

the first 15ft will be aluminet and the newer (25ft) part will be 90% shade cloth - which means we will be able to settle the age old argument of which is better!

Both ends will be staked down and hopefully no one will die.

I'm sure it will be ok :roll:


That's awesome. I'm going with dual layer super heavy duty silver/gray tarp (with black layer in between). You're at Barbie Death? I'm curious to compare my tarp to your shade & aluminet b/c I too am curious.
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Re: Testing a Monkey Hut - Fail

Postby MyDearFriend » Sun May 05, 2013 8:34 am

International Incident wrote:
Earthwalker wrote:
Is it typical to guy the front and rear ends of the MH? I've seen some people do it (including the pics above) but it's not suggested in the directions. thoughts?


Yes. Highly recommended - just helps hold the damn thing (more) together


I disgaree. have a 25 foot hut, aluminet-covered, I never guy it and I never have a problem with it. The aluminet will occasionally "breathe" i.e. lift away from the PVC in a hard wind and then settle back, but, the frame stays put.

Of course if you have a solid cover that catches ALL the wind you will have a harder time holding it down, especially if you are facing straight into the wind.

Dude I am worried about your weight here:

Earthwalker wrote: I'm going with dual layer super heavy duty silver/gray tarp (with black layer in between).


You might wind up with a pancake. And I do not understand why you would want all that up there to begin with. :?
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Re: Testing a Monkey Hut - Fail

Postby Elorrum » Sun May 05, 2013 10:09 am

International Incident wrote:
Savannah wrote:
International Incident wrote: "snip" we will be able to settle the age old argument of which is better!


I can't wait! :lol:


I was thinking of turning it into a "What, Where, When" event. You know. Just because.

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Re: Testing a Monkey Hut - Fail

Postby International Incident » Sun May 05, 2013 4:05 pm

MyDearFriend wrote:
I disgaree. have a 25 foot hut, aluminet-covered, I never guy it and I never have a problem with it. The aluminet will occasionally "breathe" i.e. lift away from the PVC in a hard wind and then settle back, but, the frame stays put.



Hey MDF, but you do guy it - you run ropes from the front and back to the ground, and you also run the rope across the bottom and that is guyed down as well. Or am I imagining things? :?
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Re: Testing a Monkey Hut - Fail

Postby International Incident » Sun May 05, 2013 4:08 pm

International Incident wrote:
International Incident wrote: "snip" we will be able to settle the age old argument of which is better!

I was thinking of turning it into a "What, Where, When" event. You know. Just because.


Elorrum wrote:Some mysteries, well, they get answered without much fanfare.


I just want to get a bunch of people who cannot agree on much of anything to stand under shade and disagree strongly while all drinking beer.
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Re: Testing a Monkey Hut - Fail

Postby Elorrum » Sun May 05, 2013 4:40 pm

whats a good argument without some Mickey Mouse measuring device to put the nails in?
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Re: Testing a Monkey Hut - Fail

Postby Drawingablank » Sun May 05, 2013 5:56 pm

MyDearFriend wrote:
Dude I am worried about your weight here:

Earthwalker wrote: I'm going with dual layer super heavy duty silver/gray tarp (with black layer in between).


You might wind up with a pancake. And I do not understand why you would want all that up there to begin with. :?


I have been using one of those double weight tarps on mine for two years with no problem.

And for anyone who is interested, in my post above, the lower photo from 2011 has the ribs made with 5 foot pieces sleeved in their center. I don't use eyebolts, just a tek screw run into the center of the sleeve (make sure the screw is on the inside as it would wear through the tarp).
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Re: Testing a Monkey Hut - Fail

Postby MegsLegs » Mon May 06, 2013 7:49 am

I'm trying to wrap my brain around possible hacks for easier portability.

I was wondering if anyone active on the board has tried cutting the 10' ribs in half and re-attached using additional 1 1/4 joints? I imagine that would sacrifice stability, but maybe additional strapping could compensate?

My issue is: I fly in from Toronto and will be renting a car, now sometimes you get a rack with the rental and sometimes you don't. One thing is for sure- they don't like it at all when you call and ask about putting anything on the roof of their cars. Good thing I disguised my voice.

The past four years I've just had an exposed tent/with an afternoon nap on the couch under camp shade, but it looks like we are planning more party-party daytime activities this year, so I really want to come up with a strategy for extra zzz-s in my private space
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Re: Testing a Monkey Hut - Fail

Postby Drawingablank » Mon May 06, 2013 9:38 am

MegsLegs wrote:I'm trying to wrap my brain around possible hacks for easier portability.

I was wondering if anyone active on the board has tried cutting the 10' ribs in half and re-attached using additional 1 1/4 joints? I imagine that would sacrifice stability, but maybe additional strapping could compensate?


The post above with the pic from 2011 is made that way - we drove cross country with it inside our Prius. See this thread: http://eplaya.burningman.com/viewtopic.php?t=34261#p554968
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