Police, Drug Sniffing Dogs & the Law Updated 2013

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.

Police, Drug Sniffing Dogs & the Law Updated 2013

Postby some seeing eye » Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:20 am

Like all message boards this one is filled with nonsense and misinformation in the spirit of free expression. It's the Internet! There is all kinds of hopeful speculation on how to evade enforcement of the drug laws. The Supreme Court has just ruled unanimously and broadly in favor of drug sniffing dogs as probable cause for a full search.

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2013/02/what-the-dog-knows.html

Dogs are capable of smelling traces of residual contraband use which can become the basis for a perfectly legal search. It is a broad ruling that law enforcement will surely use in their work.

You can search for more news on the case "Florida v Harris".
increasing the signal to noise ratio with compassion
User avatar
some seeing eye
 
Posts: 995
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:06 pm
Location: The Oregon
Burning Since: 1999
Camp Name: Woo

Re: Police, Drug Sniffing Dogs & the Law Updated 2013

Postby Simon of the Playa » Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:10 am

the judicial equivalent of a "throw down" gun...
breathe deep, the playa is the dust of your ancestors

A gift for the Playa
User avatar
Simon of the Playa
 
Posts: 13856
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:25 pm
Location: Rochester, Nevada.
Burning Since: 1996
Camp Name: La Guilde des Hashischins

Re: Police, Drug Sniffing Dogs & the Law Updated 2013

Postby TomServo » Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:34 am

Here's a novel idea! DON"T BRING ILLEGAL DRUGS INTO NEVADA...OF ALL STATES!!

Still..I'm a huge believer in "Natural Selection." If you didn't do your homework, you get what you deserve!
anything worth doing..is worth overdoing

Vor Gebrauch Sprengkapsel einsetzen
User avatar
TomServo
 
Posts: 6017
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:17 pm
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Burning Since: 1999
Camp Name: BloodBath&Beyond

Re: Police, Drug Sniffing Dogs & the Law Updated 2013

Postby junglesmacks » Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:45 am

Exactly.

Have someone else do it for you.
Savannah wrote:It sounds freaky & wrong, so you need to do it.
User avatar
junglesmacks
 
Posts: 5809
Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 9:54 pm
Location: Orlando, FL/Kailua, HI
Camp Name: Your mom's tent

Re: Police, Drug Sniffing Dogs & the Law Updated 2013

Postby TomServo » Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:04 pm

Have someone else do it for you.


"Radical Self Reliance" has NEVER been a Hippie strong point.
anything worth doing..is worth overdoing

Vor Gebrauch Sprengkapsel einsetzen
User avatar
TomServo
 
Posts: 6017
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:17 pm
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Burning Since: 1999
Camp Name: BloodBath&Beyond

Re: Police, Drug Sniffing Dogs & the Law Updated 2013

Postby Dr. Pyro » Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:06 pm

Or taking showers for that matter.
User avatar
Dr. Pyro
 
Posts: 3670
Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2003 8:11 am
Location: Newcastle, CA
Burning Since: 1999
Camp Name: Barbie Death Camp & Wine Bistro

Re: Police, Drug Sniffing Dogs & the Law Updated 2013

Postby TomServo » Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:23 pm

That's news?
anything worth doing..is worth overdoing

Vor Gebrauch Sprengkapsel einsetzen
User avatar
TomServo
 
Posts: 6017
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:17 pm
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Burning Since: 1999
Camp Name: BloodBath&Beyond

Re: Police, Drug Sniffing Dogs & the Law Updated 2013

Postby junglesmacks » Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:38 pm

"If it's good enough for Larry, it's good enough for me!
Savannah wrote:It sounds freaky & wrong, so you need to do it.
User avatar
junglesmacks
 
Posts: 5809
Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 9:54 pm
Location: Orlando, FL/Kailua, HI
Camp Name: Your mom's tent

Re: Police, Drug Sniffing Dogs & the Law Updated 2013

Postby TomServo » Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:21 pm

Larry has First Camp!
anything worth doing..is worth overdoing

Vor Gebrauch Sprengkapsel einsetzen
User avatar
TomServo
 
Posts: 6017
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:17 pm
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Burning Since: 1999
Camp Name: BloodBath&Beyond

Re: Police, Drug Sniffing Dogs & the Law Updated 2013

Postby CornMan » Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:30 pm

It could be that a lot of these law enforcement officials really do believe that many of society's ills will vanish if they could just irradiate all use of marijuana. They're visualizing some kind of golden future for all mankind once the common people become obedient to the law.
The camp with a difference
Never mind the weather
When you camp with Plug & Ply
Your holiday's forever
User avatar
CornMan
 
Posts: 882
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 5:40 pm

Re: Police, Drug Sniffing Dogs & the Law Updated 2013

Postby TomServo » Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:43 pm

Zeke Chaparral wrote:It could be that a lot of these law enforcement officials really do believe that many of society's ills will vanish if they could just irradiate all use of marijuana. They're visualizing some kind of golden future for all mankind once the common people become obedient to the law.


Whatever..they WORK for the state of NEVADA! I won't argue the rights or wrongs of drug use...I don't really care. But when a stupid hippie walks into a police station with weed, THAT is fucking funny!! Think of Nevada as a Giant police station!
anything worth doing..is worth overdoing

Vor Gebrauch Sprengkapsel einsetzen
User avatar
TomServo
 
Posts: 6017
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:17 pm
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Burning Since: 1999
Camp Name: BloodBath&Beyond

Re: Police, Drug Sniffing Dogs & the Law Updated 2013

Postby CornMan » Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:03 pm

TomServo wrote:
Think of Nevada as a Giant police station!


But Nevada is a state.
The camp with a difference
Never mind the weather
When you camp with Plug & Ply
Your holiday's forever
User avatar
CornMan
 
Posts: 882
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 5:40 pm

Re: Police, Drug Sniffing Dogs & the Law Updated 2013

Postby TomServo » Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:05 pm

Zeke Chaparral wrote:
TomServo wrote:
Think of Nevada as a Giant police station!


But Nevada is a state.


A very Anti Drug "State!"
anything worth doing..is worth overdoing

Vor Gebrauch Sprengkapsel einsetzen
User avatar
TomServo
 
Posts: 6017
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:17 pm
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Burning Since: 1999
Camp Name: BloodBath&Beyond

Re: Police, Drug Sniffing Dogs & the Law Updated 2013

Postby Simon of the Playa » Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:31 pm

Zeke Chaparral wrote:It could be that a lot of these law enforcement officials really do believe that many of society's ills will vanish if they could just irradiate all use of marijuana. They're visualizing some kind of golden future for all mankind once the common people become obedient to the law.



yes, much better than paraquat.
breathe deep, the playa is the dust of your ancestors

A gift for the Playa
User avatar
Simon of the Playa
 
Posts: 13856
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:25 pm
Location: Rochester, Nevada.
Burning Since: 1996
Camp Name: La Guilde des Hashischins

Re: Police, Drug Sniffing Dogs & the Law Updated 2013

Postby CornMan » Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:47 pm

Oops, eradicate. This ones getting blamed on spell check.
The camp with a difference
Never mind the weather
When you camp with Plug & Ply
Your holiday's forever
User avatar
CornMan
 
Posts: 882
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 5:40 pm

Re: Police, Drug Sniffing Dogs & the Law Updated 2013

Postby TT120 » Sun Feb 24, 2013 4:12 pm

The dog doesn't even have to make a positive signal, the handler just has to say he did and the search is on.
Life's a bitch, then you go to Burning Man - Unjonharley

W6BJD
User avatar
TT120
 
Posts: 953
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:43 pm
Location: Sacramento, CA.
Burning Since: 2012
Camp Name: Orphans Too

Re: Police, Drug Sniffing Dogs & the Law Updated 2013

Postby CornMan » Sun Feb 24, 2013 4:59 pm

TT120 wrote:The dog doesn't even have to make a positive signal, the handler just has to say he did and the search is on.


If a cop pulls you over because your license plate light is not bright enough, asks to search your car, there is no advantage to saying you do not consent to a search if the cop has a dog. The cop can claim a a hit by the dog's behavior, so the search is on. Even if the search does not result in finding whatever the dog originally signaled to detect, anything illegal found during the search can be used against the defendant. For example, if the extensive search results in any kind of propane apparatus modified away from its intended use, the person could be found guilty of terrorist activity and put in prison for many years.
The camp with a difference
Never mind the weather
When you camp with Plug & Ply
Your holiday's forever
User avatar
CornMan
 
Posts: 882
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 5:40 pm

Re: Police, Drug Sniffing Dogs & the Law Updated 2013

Postby DrYes » Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:37 pm

TomServo wrote:Here's a novel idea! DON"T BRING ILLEGAL DRUGS INTO NEVADA...OF ALL STATES!!

Still..I'm a huge believer in "Natural Selection." If you didn't do your homework, you get what you deserve!


Or just don't be an idiot about it. I have yet to hear a single story about someone being busted at or on the way to BM that didn't make a mistake (broken taillight, visible baggies in tent, smoking out on the playa, offering drugs to/taking drugs from a stranger, etc etc.)

There are so many easy targets out there that all one needs to do is behave with a modicum of sensibility and let the tiger eat the slower runners.
Burning Man 2013 video || Burning Man 2013 photos
Burning Man 2012 video
Burning Man 2011 video

"We'll never leave, look at us now, so in love with the way we are."
User avatar
DrYes
 
Posts: 226
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:22 pm
Burning Since: 2010
Camp Name: Camp Tasty Bits (w/ the Stimulus Tree)

Re: Police, Drug Sniffing Dogs & the Law Updated 2013

Postby Simon of the Playa » Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:44 pm

what Dr. yes Said...

don't be a stupid.
breathe deep, the playa is the dust of your ancestors

A gift for the Playa
User avatar
Simon of the Playa
 
Posts: 13856
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:25 pm
Location: Rochester, Nevada.
Burning Since: 1996
Camp Name: La Guilde des Hashischins

Re: Police, Drug Sniffing Dogs & the Law Updated 2013

Postby Elliot » Sun Feb 24, 2013 6:06 pm

All right, DrYes posted while I was typing. "Preview" is useful.

There is one element that rarely comes up in these discussions.
Let us use the above example of the propane fire art device. When the officer says "Hey, what's this?", do you respond "It is a flame thrower and I found the design on the internet", or do you respond "It is a propane poofer. These are used in outdoor displays similar to fireworks, but they are much safer since there are no explosives and nothing leaves the ground"?

I have no experience with searches for contraband, except the routine procedure with commercial trucks at the Canadian border.

But I drove 18-wheelers for 27 years, and that work involves frequent interactions with law enforcement officers, mostly at weigh stations and similar commercial vehicle inspection facilities. And truckers are on the average notorious as rude and uncooperative scofflaws, so the typical officer is likely to be apprehensive.

Well, in what must be a couple hundred interactions over those 27 years, I think I was spoken to harshly maybe twice, and that was when I richly deserved it.

Here is an example: The very first thing a trucker will usually be asked at an inspection is "Gimme your log book". The log book is a self-reporting record of hours worked and hours slept, which is strictly regulated. Drivers routinely fudge. The fines are huge. So here I was being signaled in for a routine inspection, and I pulled my log book out of my briefcase to be ready. The inspector spoke with me for a little while, then proceeded with the inspection -- no log book.

Near the end of the inspection I was putting away my driver license and such, and I was puzzled that he had not asked for the log book. Yes, I reminded him -- I did not want to be perceived as sneaking the log book out of sight before he was completely done with me. And he replied: "No thanks, I do not need to see your log book -- I have seen you."

What do you think the inspector's attitude would have been if I had opened our conversation with "Dammit, pig, I was inspected just last week and I'm in a fucking hurry today!" ?

Just my two cents.
Elliot's Bicycle Service, Camel Saddlery and Beverage Salon 5 & G as before, probably.
Ali Elliot Fy Fasan, proprietor

Caravansary Black Rock 2014



ImageImageImage
Millicent The Bus; pedal-vehicles on Playa and in Kinetic Sculpture Races.
User avatar
Elliot
 
Posts: 5281
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:41 pm
Location: Clearlake, Northern California
Burning Since: 2006
Camp Name: Elliot’s Bicycle & Beverage Emporium

Re: Police, Drug Sniffing Dogs & the Law Updated 2013

Postby BBadger » Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:55 am

Zeke Chaparral wrote:
TT120 wrote:The dog doesn't even have to make a positive signal, the handler just has to say he did and the search is on.


If a cop pulls you over because your license plate light is not bright enough, asks to search your car, there is no advantage to saying you do not consent to a search if the cop has a dog. The cop can claim a a hit by the dog's behavior, so the search is on. Even if the search does not result in finding whatever the dog originally signaled to detect, anything illegal found during the search can be used against the defendant. For example, if the extensive search results in any kind of propane apparatus modified away from its intended use, the person could be found guilty of terrorist activity and put in prison for many years.


No. Under no circumstances whatsoever should you consent to a search. If the cops want to fake a hit by the dog, then it's going to happen. However, don't just open the door to them tearing your belongings apart in some search just because you think it's inevitable.
"The essence of tyranny is not iron law. It is capricious law." -- Christopher Hitchens

Hate reading my replies? Click here to add me to your plonk (foe) list.
User avatar
BBadger
 
Posts: 3964
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:37 am
Location: (near) Portland, OR, USA
Burning Since: I'm not sure

Re: Police, Drug Sniffing Dogs & the Law Updated 2013

Postby Simon of the Playa » Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:19 am

Near the end of the inspection I was putting away my driver license and such, and I was puzzled that he had not asked for the log book. Yes, I reminded him -- I did not want to be perceived as sneaking the log book out of sight before he was completely done with me. And he replied: "No thanks, I do not need to see your log book -- I have seen you."



and this is the Jedi Mind Trick known as Social Dynamics

don't be the droids they are looking for.
breathe deep, the playa is the dust of your ancestors

A gift for the Playa
User avatar
Simon of the Playa
 
Posts: 13856
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:25 pm
Location: Rochester, Nevada.
Burning Since: 1996
Camp Name: La Guilde des Hashischins

Re: Police, Drug Sniffing Dogs & the Law Updated 2013

Postby Elliot » Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:17 am

Simon of the Playa wrote:...and this is the Jedi Mind Trick known as Social Dynamics

...where we read: "The fundamental assumption of the field is that individuals are influenced by one another's behavior."

Methinks this belongs under Fundamental Life Skills, but fundamental does not necessarily mean widespread.


I better stop harping on this. :mrgreen:
Elliot's Bicycle Service, Camel Saddlery and Beverage Salon 5 & G as before, probably.
Ali Elliot Fy Fasan, proprietor

Caravansary Black Rock 2014



ImageImageImage
Millicent The Bus; pedal-vehicles on Playa and in Kinetic Sculpture Races.
User avatar
Elliot
 
Posts: 5281
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:41 pm
Location: Clearlake, Northern California
Burning Since: 2006
Camp Name: Elliot’s Bicycle & Beverage Emporium

Re: Police, Drug Sniffing Dogs & the Law Updated 2013

Postby Lonesomebri » Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:26 am

Some people not only use self-preservation when regarding a police state, they internalize it until anyone not happily following the dictates of the police state, even in private and cautiously, must be simply stupid, all of them. There is a certain pride in following orders, and blanket contempt for people willing to break the rules. Be smart, be cautious, know your rights, use the crosswalk, never break the law, or never let 'em know you are. What are the sodemy laws like in Nevada?
"Grow some facial hair it may help with the gender confusion" -tatonka
Your dreams are not mine to share.
User avatar
Lonesomebri
 
Posts: 817
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:54 pm
Burning Since: 1997
Camp Name: Camp Threat

Re: Police, Drug Sniffing Dogs & the Law Updated 2013

Postby Mojojita » Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:05 pm

My very favorite rule I have heard regarding this issue is, "Never break more than one law at a time". If you have pot, don't break the speed limits. If there is a dead body in your trunk, be sure you don't have an open beer in the cab.
Ut ballista es interdico, tantum interdico mos fui ballista.
User avatar
Mojojita
 
Posts: 1031
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:17 am
Location: Under your bed

Re: Police, Drug Sniffing Dogs & the Law Updated 2013

Postby Dr. Pyro » Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:12 pm

That's always been my reasoning: Never do two stupid things at once. One's bad enough, but usually managable.
User avatar
Dr. Pyro
 
Posts: 3670
Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2003 8:11 am
Location: Newcastle, CA
Burning Since: 1999
Camp Name: Barbie Death Camp & Wine Bistro

Re: Police, Drug Sniffing Dogs & the Law Updated 2013

Postby Elliot » Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:17 pm

Local news around Clearlake consists of little but such cases! :lol:
Elliot's Bicycle Service, Camel Saddlery and Beverage Salon 5 & G as before, probably.
Ali Elliot Fy Fasan, proprietor

Caravansary Black Rock 2014



ImageImageImage
Millicent The Bus; pedal-vehicles on Playa and in Kinetic Sculpture Races.
User avatar
Elliot
 
Posts: 5281
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:41 pm
Location: Clearlake, Northern California
Burning Since: 2006
Camp Name: Elliot’s Bicycle & Beverage Emporium

Re: Police, Drug Sniffing Dogs & the Law Updated 2013

Postby 1durphul » Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:03 pm

It is so bizarre to me that burners, of all people, would accept this obvious negation of the Fourth Amendment as the fault of the people who fall victim to this violation of their rights.
User avatar
1durphul
 
Posts: 478
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:14 pm

Re: Police, Drug Sniffing Dogs & the Law Updated 2013

Postby Simon of the Playa » Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:02 pm

1durphul wrote:It is so bizarre to me that burners, of all people, would accept this obvious negation of the Fourth Amendment as the fault of the people who fall victim to this violation of their rights.


for me its mostly about not liking the bologna sandwiches on white bread that they serve for lunch every day in the pershing county jail.

im practical that way.
breathe deep, the playa is the dust of your ancestors

A gift for the Playa
User avatar
Simon of the Playa
 
Posts: 13856
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:25 pm
Location: Rochester, Nevada.
Burning Since: 1996
Camp Name: La Guilde des Hashischins

Re: Police, Drug Sniffing Dogs & the Law Updated 2013

Postby Earthwalker » Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:17 pm

I asked a cop (detective) friend of mine about this the other day after going back and forth about it on this board...here's the general conversation:

Me: hey, got a question. So let's say I'm rolling up to the gates at Coachella, a festival known for illegal drug use/illicit behavior, etc. I'm waiting in line and a cop says "hey, hows it going? you guys ready for some music? yeah, that's cool, so you have any drugs?" Will saying "no" be something that can be held against me later if it turns out I do have drugs?

Him: Not likely something that would come into play

Me: so after I say no I don't have drugs, and they ask me if they can search my car, and I say respectfully "actually I do mind, sir; I do not give consent" won't that just make them annoyed and get on a power trip and then be like "ok, so ya wanna play that game, huh? well i'm getting a dog". Aren't I just screwed at that point if I did have something?

Him: Well a) if they are going to get a dog, they have to do so in a reasonable amount of time (Illinois v Caballes), as in the amount of time it would take to do a routine traffic stop; say 15 minutes. b) yes, if they do get the dog and they hit, or they are willing to lie about it hitting, then yes, you're screwed

Me: so then why don't they just walk a dog up and down the line of cars the entire time and thereby check every car?

Him: resources. And most of them don't want to harass everyone. They JUST WANT TO WEED OUT THE IDIOTS

It may be different in Nevada, where you can utilize prostitutes, buy automatic weapons and gamble all you want, but can't smoke pot (which is obviously worse than any of those other three), but here in Cali, they have other things to do. Some hipster smoking a little chron isn't really a concern to them. Same with massage parlors. They want to bust murderers, drug traffickers, domestic violence, rape, kidnapping, etc.

So like others said, best bet, obviously, is bring nothing. Next best bet (since the idea that no one out there has anything is a bit silly) is to not be an idiot. Arrive sober. Have your taillights and headlights (or is it lamps? i got yelled at last time) working. Don't block your license plate. Dont have illegal things sitting out. Don't have an overpacked car. Wear your seatbelts. Be respectful. And (in my opinion) it might not be a bad idea to wear lame (i mean normal) people default clothes until you get on the Playa, or at least to the greeters. I plan on showing up in a clean minivan dressed like the good suburbanite that I am. Hell sir, good day sir, we are actually here to document this most unusual of social experiments for our college newspaper. Oh yes, that is a Bush/Cheney sticker on the back. We love those darn guys, don't you? Oh, sorry, is my NRA sticker partially obstructing my license plate? Goshdarnit, I'll fix that just as soon as we get to our camping spot.
Please forgive me...this cubicle has stolen portions of my mind and my soul
User avatar
Earthwalker
 
Posts: 312
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:16 pm
Burning Since: 2013
Camp Name: Trifucta

Next

Return to Politics & Philosophy

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: FIGJAM, gypsy68 and 0 guests