challenging "the Temple"

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.

Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby canexplain » Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:08 am

Sunbeam56 wrote:"By that analysis it sounds like I could spend a week in the chicken coop slapping myself awake for 22 hour observation shifts and get the same enjoyment: lots of random fluffing, drama and activity. Plenty of dust and feathers and temporary nests stirred by rogue winds. And a few roosters crowing to set themselves apart with strange cluckings and mating rituals. Constant peckings at the ground while saying "MOOP-MOOP!". The similarities are profound."

Involving a feather with sex is kinky. Involving a whole chicken is lewd. :D

Yea or like that whole urban legend ? about the shark and Led Zep. Now that was weird......
Coachella Wk2 04/19-04/21
Wakarusa 05/30-06/02
Bonnaroo 06/13-06/16
Dave Matthews Band 08/23-08/24
BurningMan 08/26-09/02
VooDoo 11/01-11/03
Bridge Benefit 10/???
User avatar
canexplain
 
Posts: 299
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 2:26 pm
Location: Aurora Colorado
Burning Since: 2013

Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby Dr. Pyro » Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:45 am

Sunbeam56 wrote:" enjoyment: lots of random fluffing


So, began the career in the San Fernando Valley I see.
User avatar
Dr. Pyro
 
Posts: 3670
Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2003 8:11 am
Location: Newcastle, CA
Burning Since: 1999
Camp Name: Barbie Death Camp & Wine Bistro

Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby Eric » Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:04 pm

Roark wrote:Well. There it is. The benediction of Burning Man.


Nope. What you have with Tokens post is proof that nothing, absolutely nothing, means the same thing to everybody. Not even on the playa. Personally I find the chakra & crystal & spiritual camps as annoying as hell, so I don't go to them. One of my best friends loves them, he goes a couple of times during the week. We go drinking and carousing together at night - his Burn & mine are different, but we intersect. There will be people out there who you don't, won't, or can't intersect with at all, and there could be someone that you meld with completely. I've had both, and all shades in-between.

You seem to have a very set view on what this event you've never been to is, or will bring you. I would start working on letting that go now, and just be prepared to take it for what ever it turns out to be. Expectations will kill your event - I've had them wreck a day or two of mine out there, I'm sure most people here have had them, and have had them blow up badly.

Think zen: it is what it is, unless it isn't.
Survival Guide * First Timers Guide * Ticket Info

Regarding Ticket Scalpers and Scammers

It's a camping trip in the desert, not the redemption of the fallen world - Cryptofishist

Eric ShutterSlut
BRC Weekly
User avatar
Eric
Moderator
 
Posts: 7105
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 9:45 pm
Burning Since: 2003
Camp Name: BRC Weekly

Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby ygmir » Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:21 pm

Eric wrote:
Roark wrote:Well. There it is. The benediction of Burning Man.


Nope. What you have with Tokens post is proof that nothing, absolutely nothing, means the same thing to everybody. Not even on the playa. Personally I find the chakra & crystal & spiritual camps as annoying as hell, so I don't go to them. One of my best friends loves them, he goes a couple of times during the week. We go drinking and carousing together at night - his Burn & mine are different, but we intersect. There will be people out there who you don't, won't, or can't intersect with at all, and there could be someone that you meld with completely. I've had both, and all shades in-between.

You seem to have a very set view on what this event you've never been to is, or will bring you. I would start working on letting that go now, and just be prepared to take it for what ever it turns out to be. Expectations will kill your event - I've had them wreck a day or two of mine out there, I'm sure most people here have had them, and have had them blow up badly.

Think zen: it is what it is, unless it isn't.


spot. on. again.

thanks Eric.
YGMIR

Unabashed Nordic
Pagan
User avatar
ygmir
 
Posts: 25985
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:36 pm
Location: nevada county
Burning Since: 2017
Camp Name: qqqq

Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby Rice » Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:32 pm

Eric wrote:You seem to have a very set view on what this event you've never been to is, or will bring you. I would start working on letting that go now, and just be prepared to take it for what ever it turns out to be. Expectations will kill your event - I've had them wreck a day or two of mine out there, I'm sure most people here have had them, and have had them blow up badly.

Think zen: it is what it is, unless it isn't.

Exactly Eric!!

The more you expect Burning Man to give you, the less likely you will get from it.

Expect nothing!! After all, this is just a camping excursion in the desert with odd neighbors and weird architecture....

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and views. But simply ignoring those that have attended and expecting your preconceived beliefs to be adapted by everyone else is (um, I'll politely say) incorrect.
Love Rice

Roach: "I feel like in this day and age, every girl should know how to build a flamethrower."
User avatar
Rice
 
Posts: 1642
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 8:33 pm
Location: Great White North, Saskatchewan, Canada
Burning Since: 2007

Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby Token » Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:19 pm

The man with the long beard is wise.
User avatar
Token
 
Posts: 2302
Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2003 2:55 pm
Location: Gold Country, CA
Burning Since: 2001

Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby jkisha » Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:46 pm

Token wrote:The temple has become an institution. Another predictable piece of the BM business model.

It's pure garbage. A vestibule of some sort of spiritual morality so many cling to as a means to ground themselves into reality.

Rules of conduct, crews of "temple guardians" telling the initiates what is allowed and what is not. Instructing the masses of the sacredness and spiritual meaning of a bunch of plywood and cardboard slapped together by the great unwashed horde. What a crock of shit.

The temple is just a bunch of lumber built inside a cult withing a cult that will burn a glorious death for our entertainment as we pack our crap before the delights of the Exodus.

Everything else is just exhaustion.

Well said.
JK
Image
http://www.mudskippercafe.com
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle.
Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me.
User avatar
jkisha
 
Posts: 11403
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:00 pm
Location: Los Angeles
Burning Since: 2007
Camp Name: Mudskipper Cafe

Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby Sunbeam56 » Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:48 pm

Token wrote:The man with the long beard is wise.


Who Zat?

Cautionary words are good - but face it, Newbies gonna have too much energy, too many dreams, and too much hope to extinguish expectations. You may as well send the Virgins to a Nunnery - ain't gonna stop nuthin'... just make it more painful.

I have some hopes, and I am definately not gonna share them with youse naysayers... but I'm also not going to let you take them away.
The Temple is a hope, made physical.
Guys who don't dream ... die slowly.
Let GOOD win!
User avatar
Sunbeam56
 
Posts: 277
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:01 am
Location: Danbury, TX
Burning Since: 2014
Camp Name: Fish OUt of Water Clan

Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby Eric » Fri Feb 08, 2013 6:20 pm

Sunbeam56 wrote:Cautionary words are good - but face it, Newbies gonna have too much energy, too many dreams, and too much hope to extinguish expectations. You may as well send the Virgins to a Nunnery - ain't gonna stop nuthin'... just make it more painful.

I have some hopes, and I am definately not gonna share them with youse naysayers... but I'm also not going to let you take them away.
The Temple is a hope, made physical.
Guys who don't dream ... die slowly.


Again, you completely misinterpret what we're saying. I was a newbie once, everyone here was. We all went with varying degrees of expectation, which is why we know it's best to plan for the camping part as thoroughly as possible, and try to keep the expectations in check. No one is trying to "take away" your hopes, we're trying to get you away from pinning the success of your Burn on them.

Think about it - these people you're calling naysayers because they don't speak the words you want to hear love the event so much they hang out on a forum about it all year, some of us for years on end. Your version of a naysayer is very different than mine...

I'm from SF, Home of the Burn, so when I went for the first time there was an entire community around me, but they weren't (all) glassy-eyed cultists. They instilled not only how great the Burn is, but what to watch out for, and how to survive. Basically, they taught me to keep my expectations in as much check as possible. Doesn't mean I wasn't as wide-eyed as a kid discovering Disneyland when I got there for the first time - and being a realist now doesn't mean I still don't get that wide-eyed every year I go.

You're placing your hope into an object that you don't know what it will look like, what it will be like, how hot, crowded, miserable it might be when you first walk up (or how amazing it might be, with someone playing an earth-harp and the sound of gamelans in the distance). What I'm saying is that if the Temple doesn't live up to all the hope & hype you're putting on it, you may end up wrecking your entire Burn. You've set everything on seeing the Temple - what if it's not what you wanted, needed or expected? What if it doesn't live up to all the dreams you're piling on it and expecting it to live up to? What if your first Temple is like my 1st or 2nd, both of which I found highly disappointing? Are you ready for that, or have you blinded yourself to the very real possibility that it may not be what you want? That's not nay-saying, that's cold hard facts. If you go in prepared that you may be disappointed, it only has to be nice-enough for it to be good!

That's what everyone is saying to you both - open yourselves to the adventure, don't put your hopes just one part of it being perfect, because if you do, you've pretty much made it impossible for it to be as perfect as you hoped for.

Plan your physical camping, learn everything you can to be prepared for your survival, go with an open mind that you may just be disappointed in the Temple this year - and I can almost guarantee you that if you have an open mind you'll find something else amazing that will take it's place.
Survival Guide * First Timers Guide * Ticket Info

Regarding Ticket Scalpers and Scammers

It's a camping trip in the desert, not the redemption of the fallen world - Cryptofishist

Eric ShutterSlut
BRC Weekly
User avatar
Eric
Moderator
 
Posts: 7105
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 9:45 pm
Burning Since: 2003
Camp Name: BRC Weekly

Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby Ugly Dougly » Fri Feb 08, 2013 6:36 pm

Token wrote:The temple has become an institution. Another predictable piece of the BM business model.

It's pure garbage. A vestibule of some sort of spiritual morality so many cling to as a means to ground themselves into reality.

Rules of conduct, crews of "temple guardians" telling the initiates what is allowed and what is not. Instructing the masses of the sacredness and spiritual meaning of a bunch of plywood and cardboard slapped together by the great unwashed horde. What a crock of shit.

The temple is just a bunch of lumber built inside a cult withing a cult that will burn a glorious death for our entertainment as we pack our crap before the delights of the Exodus.

Everything else is just exhaustion.


Yes, as much as it pains me to admit it ;) you speaks the wisdom O bearded weird.

We leave "institutions" behind us in Defaultia. If it doesn't work, then burn it. Even if it does work, then a bit of burning doesn't hurt either. :coffee:
Please to visit PAGE TWO.
User avatar
Ugly Dougly
 
Posts: 16313
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 9:31 am
Location: San Jose, CA
Burning Since: 1996

Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby trilobyte » Fri Feb 08, 2013 6:42 pm

There was a temple when I started participating. I consider myself fortunate that it was either not the kind of institution newbies consider it today (or maybe it was and I was just blissfully unaware as I scrambled to get every other part of my burn together). I arrived on the playa knowing that some kind of structure existed, but not a whole lot else. No matter how many times you've been to the event (or wherever you go in life), the more expectations you can get rid of, the better IMO.
User avatar
trilobyte
Site Admin
 
Posts: 10628
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 11:54 pm
Location: San Francisco
Burning Since: 2004
Camp Name: Eridu Society

Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby Ugly Dougly » Fri Feb 08, 2013 6:50 pm

Surely you know, Trilobyte, there used to be an "opera" every year, and it was cool as long as it was new and fresh. :) Nobody misses it now.

IMHO, as soon as Burning Man (or anything else) becomes codified, predictable and "institutionalized", that's when creativity and spontaneity fly out the window. And you start wondering why you are there in the first place.
Please to visit PAGE TWO.
User avatar
Ugly Dougly
 
Posts: 16313
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 9:31 am
Location: San Jose, CA
Burning Since: 1996

Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby Simon of the Playa » Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:05 pm

i have a simple solution.


lets burn a mosque instead.
breathe deep, the playa is the dust of your ancestors

A gift for the Playa
User avatar
Simon of the Playa
 
Posts: 13851
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:25 pm
Location: Rochester, Nevada.
Burning Since: 1996
Camp Name: La Guilde des Hashischins

Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby ygmir » Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:49 pm

Ito, say no please.

Image
YGMIR

Unabashed Nordic
Pagan
User avatar
ygmir
 
Posts: 25985
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:36 pm
Location: nevada county
Burning Since: 2017
Camp Name: qqqq

Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby maryanimal » Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:18 pm

IMHO:

If you don't like the idea of the temple, then ignore it. Don't go to it. If it upsets anyone to think of it being there, then you're wasting your time and energy. There are better things to do while you're there. It does mean something to a lot of burners. It's not mandatory to watch it burn.

simon: good idea! why leave anyone out! hehehe :lol:

Expectations: Leave them at home. Eric said it all. Create your OWN burn. Leave the list to see "everything" at the gate. go where you want, when you want, whether it's with someone or by yourself.
Be a volunteer!

Just have a great burn!!
Sometimes I'm confused by what I think is really obvious. But what I think is really obvious obviously isn't obvious.
User avatar
maryanimal
 
Posts: 3849
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:41 am
Burning Since: 2011

Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby Sunbeam56 » Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:38 pm

Let GOOD win!
User avatar
Sunbeam56
 
Posts: 277
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:01 am
Location: Danbury, TX
Burning Since: 2014
Camp Name: Fish OUt of Water Clan

Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby aserendipity » Fri Feb 08, 2013 9:34 pm

even though they were so elite that I had to move away,
I do miss the "opera"
and I do miss all the simple moments of joy while hearing someone playing Cello at dawn
just because he could
aserendipity
 
Posts: 1064
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:34 pm

Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby Eric » Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:56 pm

Sunbeam56 wrote:http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-india-religion-festival-20130208,0,566840.story


Which has exactly what to do with Burning Man? BRC has no river, it's not designed as a spiritual event - regardless of the culty-crap that gets piled on it - and there's no-where to wash away your sins (if you believe in them), there's certainly not 100 million people attending, it's not a centuries old undertaking... You keep lacquering on more layers of expectation instead of trying to free your mind of them. Don't ever try to understand Buddhism.

I honestly hope your vision of what you want the event to be doesn't stop you from enjoying what it really is. It's an amazing thing on it's own, it doesn't need false expectations placed on it.


I'm done. You cannot teach those who will not be taught.
Survival Guide * First Timers Guide * Ticket Info

Regarding Ticket Scalpers and Scammers

It's a camping trip in the desert, not the redemption of the fallen world - Cryptofishist

Eric ShutterSlut
BRC Weekly
User avatar
Eric
Moderator
 
Posts: 7105
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 9:45 pm
Burning Since: 2003
Camp Name: BRC Weekly

Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby theCryptofishist » Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:56 pm

Ever notice how often newbies want to experience some sort of fresh and fulfilling vision of spirituality, and then try and put the playa's traditions into the same old vestments that the moribund pope (and all his predecessors) is wearing?
Simon's real sig line?

Embrace the Sock

Winners never quilt, quilters never win...
User avatar
theCryptofishist
 
Posts: 37413
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 10:28 am
Location: In Exile
Burning Since: 2017

Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby Eric » Sat Feb 09, 2013 2:08 am

theCryptofishist wrote:Ever notice how often newbies want to experience some sort of fresh and fulfilling vision of spirituality, and then try and put the playa's traditions into the same old vestments that the moribund pope (and all his predecessors) is existing religions already wearing?


fixed it.
Survival Guide * First Timers Guide * Ticket Info

Regarding Ticket Scalpers and Scammers

It's a camping trip in the desert, not the redemption of the fallen world - Cryptofishist

Eric ShutterSlut
BRC Weekly
User avatar
Eric
Moderator
 
Posts: 7105
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 9:45 pm
Burning Since: 2003
Camp Name: BRC Weekly

Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby BBadger » Sat Feb 09, 2013 2:34 am

My burns are always ruined by my expectations of how good the 40,000th Burning Man is going to be:

Image
"The essence of tyranny is not iron law. It is capricious law." -- Christopher Hitchens

Hate reading my replies? Click here to add me to your plonk (foe) list.
User avatar
BBadger
 
Posts: 3964
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:37 am
Location: (near) Portland, OR, USA
Burning Since: I'm not sure

Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby Simon of the Playa » Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:36 am

this thread pretty much explains why i havent seen the temple burn in 3 years.

i go on saturday, let the goyim have their fun on sunday burning it down, as is their custom.


Image
breathe deep, the playa is the dust of your ancestors

A gift for the Playa
User avatar
Simon of the Playa
 
Posts: 13851
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:25 pm
Location: Rochester, Nevada.
Burning Since: 1996
Camp Name: La Guilde des Hashischins

Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby aserendipity » Sat Feb 09, 2013 8:01 am

THANK YOU
Eric, Fishy, Simon
Actually it is you (and some others) who I salute
aserendipity
 
Posts: 1064
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:34 pm

Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby canexplain » Sat Feb 09, 2013 8:03 am

Simon, if you say you haven't been in 3 years, that infers you did go before. To us that have not been there, I think it is just one of those things I want to see (and the Man). Do I have to see it burn? Guess it depends on how the week goes. Knowing myself, I saw the Golden Gate bridge for years but until I walked across it, I didn't feel the bridge. Are the structures the same? Might I just glance at them for years before I touch them? Sorry for the ramble, that damn coffee....
Coachella Wk2 04/19-04/21
Wakarusa 05/30-06/02
Bonnaroo 06/13-06/16
Dave Matthews Band 08/23-08/24
BurningMan 08/26-09/02
VooDoo 11/01-11/03
Bridge Benefit 10/???
User avatar
canexplain
 
Posts: 299
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 2:26 pm
Location: Aurora Colorado
Burning Since: 2013

Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby inthecolumbiagorge » Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:27 am

Last year was my first burn and I went to the temple at least 5 times. It was so beautiful and very moving for me and my whole family. We lost my dad this year we said a very special goodbye to him there that was incredibly emotional for us all, strangely much more so than his actual memorial here. I do understand that it may not draw every burner to it but with our travels on our MV there were more people congregated there usually than any where else on the open playa so obviously it has much value to many burners. I know I will always remember my first time at temple as an integral part of my first burn regardless of how often I make it to the playa in the future. I do not consider myself a very spiritual person and definitely not religious but the temple was just freaking amazing and I appreciate all the planning, hard work and funding that created it.
User avatar
inthecolumbiagorge
 
Posts: 207
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:26 pm
Location: Columbia Gorge

Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby Eric » Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:35 pm

Please understand, most of us aren't saying "don't go to the Temple at all", we're saying "don't make the Temple such a strong focus of your first visit that you loose sight of everything else" - and those in response to specific posts. Hell, I could give a flying fuck if you spend an entire day at the Temple bowing & keening, it's your Burn, not mine. Just don't expect everyone else to get as into it as you, and at least come prepared that the real physical structure & experience of being there may not live up to all the dreams you're piling on it, sight unseen.

You have to remember this thread was started to challenge the idea of the Temple in it's current form, it wasn't started to be cheer-leading camp. If you're going for the first time & you want to believe that the "brochure" version of Burning Man you get on the web is the truth & the people who've actually been are naysayers for not parroting the brochure - have at it, but there are certain threads you might not want to read. However, for long timers the Temple has become a symbol of the systematic creep of Institutional Memory (ie: making something "default" in a place where things should be transient), and a lot of this thread is about discontent with that.

In the early years the only certain thing was the Cocktail Party (do your own research), then other things burbled up & disappeared (the Opera, etc). The only "permanent" thing for the whole city has been center camp, and that's only been around since there's actually been a city - '97 or '98, I believe. The Temple has now attained status second only to the Man, but is that actually a good thing? It's now expected to be there, and be amazing, to the point where people are planning there trip because of it.

That's not just institutional creep, that's putting a whole lot of expectations on something that has sucked as often as it's been amazing; I've heard complaints - or made them - about '03, '05, '06, '09, & '10. Those are all ones that varied from the "it looks like a traditional religious structure" program, which basically tells you that people are just dragging the outside world in instead of letting it go. I've been guilty of it as well, except I didn't like them because they looked like shitty art, not because they didn't fulfill some religious dream I had for them (and I personally really like 2010's, which was a love-or-hate structure for a lot of people)
Survival Guide * First Timers Guide * Ticket Info

Regarding Ticket Scalpers and Scammers

It's a camping trip in the desert, not the redemption of the fallen world - Cryptofishist

Eric ShutterSlut
BRC Weekly
User avatar
Eric
Moderator
 
Posts: 7105
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 9:45 pm
Burning Since: 2003
Camp Name: BRC Weekly

Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby Token » Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:58 pm

The temple was so much better when a really angry egotistical miserable old man made it from dinosaur mobile negatives.

He had a good bead on things.
User avatar
Token
 
Posts: 2302
Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2003 2:55 pm
Location: Gold Country, CA
Burning Since: 2001

Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby Eric » Sat Feb 09, 2013 4:01 pm

Token wrote:The temple was so much better when a really angry egotistical miserable old man made it from dinosaur mobile negatives.

He had a good bead on things.


Ha! And so true.
Survival Guide * First Timers Guide * Ticket Info

Regarding Ticket Scalpers and Scammers

It's a camping trip in the desert, not the redemption of the fallen world - Cryptofishist

Eric ShutterSlut
BRC Weekly
User avatar
Eric
Moderator
 
Posts: 7105
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 9:45 pm
Burning Since: 2003
Camp Name: BRC Weekly

Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby Simon of the Playa » Sat Feb 09, 2013 4:54 pm

how about we BLOW the temple up...





just sayin', add a little spice...i mean diesel bombs.
Attachments
exploding.jpg
exploding.jpg (139.92 KiB) Viewed 1287 times
breathe deep, the playa is the dust of your ancestors

A gift for the Playa
User avatar
Simon of the Playa
 
Posts: 13851
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:25 pm
Location: Rochester, Nevada.
Burning Since: 1996
Camp Name: La Guilde des Hashischins

Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby Sunbeam56 » Sat Feb 09, 2013 7:32 pm

Why would 100,000 people travel through adversity to take a bath in a dirty river?
They could have a clean, comfortable bath at home.
Its because the journey has meaning to them.
Let GOOD win!
User avatar
Sunbeam56
 
Posts: 277
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:01 am
Location: Danbury, TX
Burning Since: 2014
Camp Name: Fish OUt of Water Clan

PreviousNext

Return to Politics & Philosophy

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest