challenging "the Temple"

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.

Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby Elliot » Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:49 pm

I see no reason why the Temple could not be "modular", with each module built by a different team. Same concept as CORE, but placed closely together.
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby Ugly Dougly » Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:56 pm

I think there's just been a flurry of "non-inclusive" reports.
To my mind, that's what needs to be addressed.
IMHO, fund-raising is not an excuse.
It's not an excuse for violating any other of the playa principles.
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby Simon of the Playa » Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:59 pm

say what you wanna, but it's also kinda fun when shit burns that wasn't supposed to burn.... :twisted:


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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby ygmir » Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:43 pm

Elliot wrote:I see no reason why the Temple could not be "modular", with each module built by a different team. Same concept as CORE, but placed closely together.


yeah like I thought a "village" layout.

I dunno I was just thinking, of the "discoveries".......with a bunch on smaller, probably more specific to certain thoughts and ideas. How many folks, might stumble upon an thought, and idea, a "belief", that has lingered with them, but never been "real", or tangible?
The person, who's dreamed their whole life of baby ducks..........and stumbles into the duck temple, only to finally see, they're not alone, not the only one..

well, maybe I'm just dreaming.......
.sometimes I give in to an impulse, to find that one lost puppy, the one soul wandering who can't or won't, subscribe or understand the convention. To see the expression, and I suppose vicariously feel, that moment of enlightenment, when one sees and can make sense, or some semblance of sense, of a lifetimes wandering and and exclusion.
To see that puppy, wag it's tail, and roll over as if to say "rub mah bellah, I'm home"..........
am I the only one?.........
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby aserendipity » Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:55 pm

rolling over right now
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby littleflower » Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:56 am

interesting idea yg .... i like it, but .......

i always think of burning man as the "island of misfit toys" ..... lots of people go there, i think, to find what they are missing in defaultia ... but even in that magical place, where finding that fellow wanderer may be more likely, it's still a pretty remote possibility.

All of the art there has the potential of being a small temple, doesn't it? but not all of us can create art for the playa.... we need something built for us, where we are allowed to personalize a little part of it, make it our own. it's not perfect, but it serves its purpose, i think.

i think you should make your own little temple, so that that wanderer might find you ....
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby ygmir » Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:19 am

I may do that...........
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby canexplain » Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:35 am

Wooo all of this is a bit early for me :) I'm still on the same pot of coffee. I did do the dishes, wash three loads of clothes (A Man Needs A Maid , Neil), and now I think I will take some pics. I know I have not added to the thoughts of people like the last few posts, one day I might get there. Point being: It's refreshing to read posts that don't have to do only with what fucking song is popular, what the current best drug is, or how hot that woman is. Now I don't have anything against the latter three, but I hope life is a bit deeper, at least later in the day :) ...
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby Sunbeam56 » Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:59 pm

The term Disneyland" is being used like its a bad thing. My beautiful, intelligent, centered and kind child can sing every song from every Disney movie until she was about 12.
Its not my gig, so i would never sponsor a Disney Camp... But what would be wrong with one.
If i'm reading right, and i'm only back to 2003 in my topics of interest, its not so much what motivates you to make the pilgrimage, but whether you can accept the gifts of the Playa.
If your expectations are off... Just learn and accept.
That's where i am.
And i think the Temple is part of the experience that newbies can grok.
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby trilobyte » Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:16 pm

Nothing wrong with Disneyland, at Disneyland. Until you've seen that there's something out there that's so much bigger/better/different, it might just be the best thing in the world. Once you've experienced something beyond it, the manufactured commercial theme park experience will never be the same.

It's a difficult thing to explain using words. Wait til you get there and experience it for yourself, you'll see.
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby FIGJAM » Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:50 pm

Plus, Walt was an anti-semite!
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby Roark » Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:00 pm

FIGJAM wrote:Plus, Walt was an anti-semite!


Yeah, but I bet he would have loved Burning Man! :mrgreen:
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby Dr Helix » Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:26 pm

All I know is that all this Disney talk has got the song from "Pirates of the Carribean" ride in my head again. It'll take days to get it out! Thanks for nothing.

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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby ygmir » Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:32 pm

well I love Disneyland, am not ashamed a bit about it.

who the hell cares what "you" like, or who likes what you like? As long as you like it, it's perfect!
fuck judgmental people who go "eeww" at something that brings you joy (harming or bothering other living things, excepted).
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby theCryptofishist » Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:28 pm

Roark wrote:
FIGJAM wrote:Plus, Walt was an anti-semite!


Yeah, but I bet he would have loved Burning Man! :mrgreen:

Probably not. He was very controlling. Controlling people don't have an easy time with playa chaos.
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby aserendipity » Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:29 pm

Trrilo and Yggy are spot on tonight
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby Zhust » Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:15 am

I do like the Temple as is — as a very large structure. I also like that it is designed by different people and that sometimes it's radically different (e.g. Temple of Flux in 2010 [which I volunteered to work on]). I am not fond of the variations on the David Best-styled temples, but I know a lot of people like the traditional "templeness" of them.

I thought I was on track to try to do the Temple this year — as in design it. But I had way too many blank spaces in the spreadsheet. I mean that literally and metaphorically ... I had a satisfactory but vague notion of how the whole thing would be built locally and shipped and assembled, but I had a big hole in knowledge about doing a safe burn on Sunday night. Likewise with other elements of the design.

Sorry ... rambling ...

It requires tremendous effort to get all the elements of a big project together. That is why big projects are so spectacular and so rewarding. And the Temple, as a big project, requires a special kind of person with an extra-dedicated team. You can't just try to do the Temple, fuck it all up, and go, "oh well, maybe next year." It's tragic when a big project fails to come together, but the Temple — like the Man, Center Camp, and all the infrastructure — is much closer to "necessary".

So I don't really like the idea of the smaller temples on a designated area of decomposed granite ("DG", the stuff that protects the Playa surface) because I think it will diminish the magnitude, scope, and reverence of the project.

(I'm working my way through my thoughts on this, and that last one resonated:)

The Temple is special because it is built with reverence. It's not that it's a duty imposed by the Burning Man organization, but that builders of the Temple respect it and revere it. Right from the first idea, the first sketch, the first model, you know it's the Temple and it has a special kind of importance. That's what makes it unique. And you know it will have a revered, sacred place in Black Rock City.

I think most projects are cared for, and some are revered, but the Temple gets the charmed spot.

That said, I never "got" the Temple until my 3rd year or so. I was kind of turned off by it — what with all the language like "temple" and "sacred" wholly ruined by my experience with organized religions. My first year, I was having a massively shitty time. The one thing that was burned in my brain was this little pyramid in deep Playa. It was about 8' tall or so and had a lighted path to a door in the wall. When you opened the door, a bright light came on inside. Once inside, and you closed the door, the light went out, and the walls were covered with glow-in-the-dark stars. There was a book to leave a wish. I wrote a wish and sat with that space a while. It was the first time I could remember finding a sacred space.

I don't know how much the creators revered their project, but it felt reverent. And it wasn't the Temple, and it was a smallish project. So those little temples are everywhere.
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby Simon of the Playa » Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:45 am

FIGJAM wrote:Plus, Walt was an anti-semite!



wow, i thought he was just horribly racist...


so, how do you explain Jeffrey Katzenberg?
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby Roberto Dobbisano » Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:46 am

self hating mouseketeer?
one nation, under a groove.
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby Ugly Dougly » Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:07 am

Zhust wrote:The Temple is special because it is built with reverence. It's not that it's a duty imposed by the Burning Man organization, but that builders of the Temple respect it and revere it. Right from the first idea, the first sketch, the first model, you know it's the Temple and it has a special kind of importance. That's what makes it unique. And you know it will have a revered, sacred place in Black Rock City...

Agreed.

So maybe back to the original point: Who can reserve the temple for themselves? Did someone in the MBorg give the go-ahead, or was it all just bluster?
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby ygmir » Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:53 am

I think all things spiritual, should be challenged.
well, really, all things in general.

and often.
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby Eric » Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:04 pm

Simon of the Playa wrote:
FIGJAM wrote:Plus, Walt was an anti-semite!



wow, i thought he was just horribly racist...


so, how do you explain Jeffrey Katzenberg?


Walt was long dead when Katzenberg was brought on (by Michael Eisner, another Jew, who came in long after Walt). Still, it's not known for sure if Disney was any more anti-semetic than the average American during the 30s - 50s.
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby Savannah » Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:08 pm

Roberto Dobbisano wrote:self hating mouseketeer?


I must add this to my list of Playa Names. :shock:
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby ygmir » Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:24 pm

Eric wrote:
Simon of the Playa wrote:
FIGJAM wrote:Plus, Walt was an anti-semite!



wow, i thought he was just horribly racist...


so, how do you explain Jeffrey Katzenberg?


Walt was long dead when Katzenberg was brought on (by Michael Eisner, another Jew, who came in long after Walt). Still, it's not known for sure if Disney was any more anti-semetic than the average American during the 30s - 50s.


that's a good point, Eric.
we sometimes forget "the times" when we refer to peoples attitudes.
If, an entire society, and culture, teach you things, you have no idea it's "wrong", without perspective. And especially in historical America, perspective is pretty much only what we were spoon fed by media (movies, radio, t.v. when invented, newspapers, gossip).
So, in this era, when (we pat our selves on the back because we are so enlightened) we "know better" we look back and incriminate, when often, it was "normal" and no one knew, or realized.

one day, people may look back on us as barbaric, for drilling into the Lemurian homeland and pumping out all thier oil, or for killing things for food, when we could just push the synthesizer button and it would be made from "matter", reorganized into edibles.
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby MyDearFriend » Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:43 pm

ygmir wrote:well I love Disneyland, am not ashamed a bit about it.

who the hell cares what "you" like, or who likes what you like? As long as you like it, it's perfect!
fuck judgmental people who go "eeww" at something that brings you joy (harming or bothering other living things, excepted).
If you wanna go to BRC, shit in a bucket by the road, beg for water, and wear a green mankini: Yay You!!


This.

ygmir wrote:I think all things spiritual, should be challenged.
well, really, all things in general.

and often.


and this. 8) 8) 8)

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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby Token » Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:16 pm

The temple has become an institution. Another predictable piece of the BM business model.

It's pure garbage. A vestibule of some sort of spiritual morality so many cling to as a means to ground themselves into reality.

Rules of conduct, crews of "temple guardians" telling the initiates what is allowed and what is not. Instructing the masses of the sacredness and spiritual meaning of a bunch of plywood and cardboard slapped together by the great unwashed horde. What a crock of shit.

The temple is just a bunch of lumber built inside a cult withing a cult that will burn a glorious death for our entertainment as we pack our crap before the delights of the Exodus.

Everything else is just exhaustion.
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby gyre » Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:57 pm

Discussing real world ritual recently I got exasperated with the questions of how "it's supposed to be done".
I said, "This is real life. You just make this shit up as you go."

That's what we did.
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby Roark » Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:14 am

Token wrote:The temple has become an institution. Another predictable piece of the BM business model.

It's pure garbage. A vestibule of some sort of spiritual morality so many cling to as a means to ground themselves into reality.

Rules of conduct, crews of "temple guardians" telling the initiates what is allowed and what is not. Instructing the masses of the sacredness and spiritual meaning of a bunch of plywood and cardboard slapped together by the great unwashed horde. What a crock of shit.

The temple is just a bunch of lumber built inside a cult withing a cult that will burn a glorious death for our entertainment as we pack our crap before the delights of the Exodus.

Everything else is just exhaustion.


Well. There it is. The benediction of Burning Man.

By that analysis it sounds like I could spend a week in the chicken coop slapping myself awake for 22 hour observation shifts and get the same enjoyment: lots of random fluffing, drama and activity. Plenty of dust and feathers and temporary nests stirred by rogue winds. And a few roosters crowing to set themselves apart with strange cluckings and mating rituals. Constant peckings at the ground while saying "MOOP-MOOP!". The similarities are profound.

Of course, I'd miss The Exodous, so I guess I will have to go for that. :mrgreen:
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby Simon of the Playa » Fri Feb 08, 2013 6:27 am

[media]
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby Sunbeam56 » Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:38 am

"By that analysis it sounds like I could spend a week in the chicken coop slapping myself awake for 22 hour observation shifts and get the same enjoyment: lots of random fluffing, drama and activity. Plenty of dust and feathers and temporary nests stirred by rogue winds. And a few roosters crowing to set themselves apart with strange cluckings and mating rituals. Constant peckings at the ground while saying "MOOP-MOOP!". The similarities are profound."

Involving a feather with sex is kinky. Involving a whole chicken is lewd. :D
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