challenging "the Temple"

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challenging "the Temple"

Postby ygmir » Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:22 am

so, I was discussing temple issues with Trilo, and he made a statement that really got me thinking.
In reference to all the huge money given to build the temple each year, to one person, or group.
Not that it's not always wonderful, and beautiful. And it certainly feeds the egos of many.
and allows many to have a sacred space.
but, I sort of have this thought, and wonder if anyone wants to discuss it?

To Wit:

What, if there was no "Temple" as a huge, lavish structure?
What, if it was turned more "to the people" and many, were allowed, and encouraged, to build smaller, intimate, and more specific "temples"?
Maybe some help with material costs/provision (from the bucket of money that would otherwise be spent on a grand one).
What, if it were laid out in sort of a village, not to close, but all in an area? Still be be burned, still to be all open, all accommodating.

Just maybe a little more "organic" showing all the faces of the builders and dreamers.
maybe small huts? circles? up to buildings of a few rooms.
but each with it's own focus, and intent.

For, "intent" is everything!!
"The simple person, with rags for clothes, but pure of heart and intent, has more magic than the loftiest "learned" priest, with gold and perfumes, but a corrupted mind and heart"

What if we stripped away the grandeur, and laid it out, in bits of hearts and minds?
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby Simon of the Playa » Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:32 am

the miracle of Koln.

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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby tamarakay » Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:41 am

I like this idea a lot. A whole whole lot.
I am uncomfortable with the whole "sacred" thing. I understand that the temple has grown into a place where people can say goodbye to people/things and a letting go of sorts, but the whole sacred speak in hushed tones wailing wall thing seemed contrived and forced to me.
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby FIGJAM » Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:46 am

I dunno, could'nt the same thing be said for The Man? :?
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby mudpuppy000 » Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:58 am

There's a lot of desert out there, you could probably do both. :)
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby Sham » Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:15 am

I think that each art project on the playa is considered sacred to the artist. I'm not sure that many smaller ones would have any type of impact over what is spread out on the playa now.
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby illy dilly » Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:33 am

I think its a great idea!
Maybe have some sort of a wall/fence that goes around the overall temple area, sorta like last year. With overall design that brings each temple together. Maybe they're all in a ring, so you can walk out one and a few yards away into/around another.

Possibly some criteria for each temple designer/builder. Height and Width minimums/maximums. But besides from very generic criteria each temple can be designed completely unique.
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby canexplain » Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:35 am

As a n00bie: Isn't that what is really being done now? The individual projects that burn independent of the temple and the man are somewhat what you are proposing.? If you spent the same money on individual projects, when the burn came it would look about like the posted pic. I am fascinated by the final burning of the temple though. Things change but not always for the good. Maybe the "committee" could put a cap on what is spent on the temple and any leftovers goes to other things. cr****
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby Sunbeam56 » Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:58 am

Please dont change the temple. As a noobie we struggle just to get there. Adding another project would just make it more difficult.
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby TomServo » Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:48 pm

Is this NOT a suitable temple?!?

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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby FIGJAM » Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:59 pm

It looks sacred enough to me. 8)
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby theCryptofishist » Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:01 pm

After that wedding anecdote, I'm all in favor of anything that shakes the temple loose from the mission creep that seems to be taking it more and more default world...
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby canexplain » Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:03 pm

If the laws permit, one day BRC will be full circle. Good, bad, me thinks good but I am for change sometimes.....cr****
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby Rice » Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:11 pm

Sunbeam56 wrote:Please dont change the temple. As a noobie we struggle just to get there. Adding another project would just make it more difficult.

The Temple is just a large piece of art on the playa. It is possible, there is more to it than Art - I have found my personal understanding of the temple is related to my needs during each burn. Some burns I spend hours and hours there, other burns I do not even get near it...

Try to keep your expectations as low as possible, go in with an open mind - open heart

The playa will always give you what you need, which (frequently) is not what you want....
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby canexplain » Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:24 pm

Rice wrote:
Sunbeam56 wrote:Please dont change the temple. As a noobie we struggle just to get there. Adding another project would just make it more difficult.

The Temple is just a large piece of art on the playa. It is possible, there is more to it than Art - I have found my personal understanding of the temple is related to my needs during each burn. Some burns I spend hours and hours there, other burns I do not even get near it...

Try to keep your expectations as low as possible, go in with an open mind - open heart

The playa will always give you what you need, which (frequently) is not what you want....


From what little I have read of your posts I am thinking you are right. Just like this board: It's a bit more rigid than I thought it would be (Brave New World lolz), so I am open to seeing BMan and the peeps who "get" it. with as few as preconceived notions I might have .....cr****
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby trilobyte » Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:37 pm

First, I'm giving this a nudge over to politics and philosophy. Then, before anyone reads anything into the tea leaves, everything I'm writing in this post is just my own personal opinions and thoughts, and represents nothing even close to official...

As a somewhat newer burner (started in 2004), for me there's always been a temple at Black Rock City. Before 2000 of course, there wasn't a temple. People not only survived, they thrived and found ways to deal with the losses in their life. 2000 was that first year, nobody expected it to be there or had preconceived ideas about what it might mean. But since 2001 it's been a thing. It's varied a lot in size and shape and level of detail, but it's always been there, acting as a default place for people to do their thing (grieve, worship, meditate, etc). In more recent years, it seems like it's become an even bigger institution (shushing someone at Burning Man just seems a little strange).

I'm not knocking on the structures (each has been perfect in its own way), or the people who build them, or those who visit, or even those who shout or shush when they burn. Just, what if there wasn't some gigantic institutionalized structure that veterans and newbies who knew precious little about the event just took for granted as a de facto thing? Would people still worship and meditate and express grief/sorrow/etc. out at the event?
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby canexplain » Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:46 pm

Don't know if I would fit in the temple. I have had many loses, but they are the past. I have dealt with them. I want to go to BMan to celebrate life and my 64 tour ") I can cry at a fucking movie on tv, but you will probably only see smiles on me at BRC (unless someone tells me to shush and mind my own business heheheh) cr****
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby TomServo » Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:55 pm

Sunbeam56 wrote:Please dont change the temple. As a noobie we struggle just to get there. Adding another project would just make it more difficult.


These aren't rides you go on. And if your expecting a temple, you're expecting too much! Not everything is 100%! A lot of folks were upset to see an already burned man in 2007. Don't go for the attractions! I was Hugely disappointed by Bianca's Smut shack! Go for YOURSELF, if that's what you NEED to do!
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby Rice » Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:58 pm

canexplain wrote:Don't know if I would fit in the temple. I have had many loses, but they are the past. I have dealt with them. I want to go to BMan to celebrate life and my 64 tour ") I can cry at a fucking movie on tv, but you will probably only see smiles on me at BRC (unless someone tells me to shush and mind my own business heheheh) cr****

I do not believe that one should worry about fitting anything. Go, be yourself - experience

You will not know how you are going to feel about anything at Burning Man until you experience it....

When walking to/through/around the Temple I have felt everything from heart-wrenching sorrow to unimaginable joy, and absolute indifference...

I guess what I am trying to say is "My experiences at Burning Man are a direct reflection of my ability to experience them!"
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby Rice » Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:12 pm

TomServo wrote:
Sunbeam56 wrote:Please dont change the temple. As a noobie we struggle just to get there. Adding another project would just make it more difficult.


These aren't rides you go on. And if your expecting a temple, you're expecting too much! Not everything is 100%! A lot of folks were upset to see an already burned man in 2007. Don't go for the attractions! I was Hugely disappointed by Bianca's Smut shack! Go for YOURSELF, if that's what you NEED to do!


Some people see BM as something like Disney land

Some people see BM as a canvas for creating Art

I like to believe BM is something more than either of those things. But that is ME...
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby TomServo » Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:14 pm

Rice wrote:
canexplain wrote:Don't know if I would fit in the temple. I have had many loses, but they are the past. I have dealt with them. I want to go to BMan to celebrate life and my 64 tour ") I can cry at a fucking movie on tv, but you will probably only see smiles on me at BRC (unless someone tells me to shush and mind my own business heheheh) cr****

I do not believe that one should worry about fitting anything. Go, be yourself - experience

You will not know how you are going to feel about anything at Burning Man until you experience it....

When walking to/through/around the Temple I have felt everything from heart-wrenching sorrow to unimaginable joy, and absolute indifference...

I guess what I am trying to say is "My experiences at Burning Man are a direct reflection of my ability to experience them!"


+100 The Temple is heart-wrenching. Even if you are cool with your past. I wont even try to explain it, other than it relates to the Burn as a whole, in that YOU CAN'T explain it! I CAN! But only to myself! Or maybe my ex...who went...but we don't talk..
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby TomServo » Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:16 pm

Rice wrote:
TomServo wrote:
Sunbeam56 wrote:Please dont change the temple. As a noobie we struggle just to get there. Adding another project would just make it more difficult.


These aren't rides you go on. And if your expecting a temple, you're expecting too much! Not everything is 100%! A lot of folks were upset to see an already burned man in 2007. Don't go for the attractions! I was Hugely disappointed by Bianca's Smut shack! Go for YOURSELF, if that's what you NEED to do!


Some people see BM as something like Disney land

Some people see BM as a canvas for creating Art

I like to believe BM is something more than either of those things. But that is ME...


I like to try and dissuade the Disneyland feel.
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby Rice » Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:20 pm

TomServo wrote:
I like to try and dissuade the Disneyland feel.

Same here.

But we both know some people see Burning Man as some sort of surreal Music Festival. Which is all they experience...

No matter what we say or do, a small percentage will not be different after attending Burning Man.
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby edbrez » Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:23 pm

Rice wrote:
canexplain wrote:Don't know if I would fit in the temple. I have had many loses, but they are the past. I have dealt with them. I want to go to BMan to celebrate life and my 64 tour ") I can cry at a fucking movie on tv, but you will probably only see smiles on me at BRC (unless someone tells me to shush and mind my own business heheheh) cr****

I do not believe that one should worry about fitting anything. Go, be yourself - experience

You will not know how you are going to feel about anything at Burning Man until you experience it....

When walking to/through/around the Temple I have felt everything from heart-wrenching sorrow to unimaginable joy, and absolute indifference...

I guess what I am trying to say is "My experiences at Burning Man are a direct reflection of my ability to experience them!"



I just want there to be a temple that burns, size makes a bigger speckle I guess :D
Other than that, as long as people have the freedom to express their loss and/or spirituality and of course sexuality everyone wins
It is a nice idea to build smaller structures, I envision a large tunnel that revels a mini city of structures, all unique and worthwhile and equally interesting in their own rights. :)
Like any city, BRC should cater for the requirements of its citizens, but it is equally the responsibility of all its citizens to decide what is necessary from year to year.
Definitely worth the discussion

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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby TomServo » Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:31 pm

Like any city, BRC should cater for the requirements of its citizens, but it is equally the responsibility of all its citizens to decide what is necessary from year to year.
Definitely worth the discussion


WE ARE THE CITY! OUR TICKET DOES NOT PAY FOR OUR ACCOMIDATIONS, IT PAYS FOR US BEING THERE!!! and Larrys new mercedes
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby canexplain » Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:40 pm

Here is what I do sort of expect. I don't think my gf would have a good time. I will than go solo OR just back from Kansas (long story) these two 24 yr olds that used to live in my basement (with two others: a band) might go with me, fuck anyway, I think when they get back, their tails will be different from mine. But then, ya never know eh? cr****
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby edbrez » Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:53 pm

TomServo wrote:
Like any city, BRC should cater for the requirements of its citizens, but it is equally the responsibility of all its citizens to decide what is necessary from year to year.
Definitely worth the discussion


WE ARE THE CITY! OUR TICKET DOES NOT PAY FOR OUR ACCOMMODATION, IT PAYS FOR US BEING THERE!!! and Larrys new mercedes


Same page

That is really what I was trying to say, it is certainly worth the discussion for future years.
BM is meant to be a constantly evolving entity so maybe a change of structure is necessary or maybe not?
It is up to the citizens to decide what stays and what goes....
Debate is the start of the process :)
I'm just glad it happens at all... very low expectations :wink:
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby TomServo » Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:57 pm

canexplain wrote:Here is what I do sort of expect. I don't think my gf would have a good time. I will than go solo OR just back from Kansas (long story) these two 24 yr olds that used to live in my basement (with two others: a band) might go with me, fuck anyway, I think when they get back, their tails will be different from mine. But then, ya never know eh? cr****

Here's what I expect. You will do fine! But it may take you a day or two to adjust. And I expect you will spend time apart from your gf, all th while remembering where you are. I also suspect, your wise enough, to not expect anything!
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby Ugly Dougly » Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:02 pm

Ygmir, I like the idea of having an alternative to an official, public temple. I am not a fan of cities or organized religions.
The trick is you can't have the general population going out burning stuff on the ground.
Give them a burn area with gravel on the ground that they can help clean up later.
I know that this year, we are encouraged to build our own temples. These can be burnable or not burnable.
The burning can represent a release or a prayer or a celebration, as the participant so wishes.
Why not?
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby trilobyte » Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:20 pm

You can create a burnable installation, if you like. There are some special requirements (see the bottom of this page for more info), and get in touch with the necessary folks once your plans start coming together so that you can get on their radar and learn more about the requirements and responsibilities. I'd say that it's not hard, but let's face it - designing, building, and bringing any kind of art installation out to the playa takes a lot of hard work.

One of the things I hear from veterans who've been coming since the 1990's is how everything used to burn, often all at once. I like that concept a lot, it's one of the things I like most about the Thursday CORE burns that began in 2011. It's impossible to see/do all of it, as the burn approaches you either gravitate towards the piece that resonates most to you (or that your friends are meeting at, or you helped build, etc)… or you're off doing one of a thousand other awesome things on the playa. Every experience is awesome, and meaningful in its own way.
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