Low income debate

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Re: Low income tickets and early entrance

Postby iconoplastyfervor » Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:12 pm

Surprised to get an early response approving my LI ticket application! I'm pretty stoked. It was supposed to take up to 6 weeks. I was also on the directed distribution email list for my camp, so I'm wondering if this had any influence on the early approval. They haven't even removed the link yet to apply (light on the LI applications this year?). Anyway, WOoooo HOooooo!!!!

Oops is this post better suited for the other LI ticket forum? I am arriving early, but Wed. is ok for me.
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Re: Low income tickets and early entrance

Postby junglesmacks » Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:08 pm

Nice to know that you could have afforded a full price DD ticket were it offered yet went ahead and cheated the system to save a buck. Nice work.

Can we pull the plug on the LIT system yet?
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Re: Low income tickets and early entrance

Postby 9ah » Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:26 pm

JS.... Maybe he simply meant that he was part of the group receiving updates.... I believe LIT does work for some of the folks that it's supposed to.
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Re: Low income tickets and early entrance

Postby trilobyte » Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:11 pm

Cheating the system is a possibility, but it's also possible that his camp leader didn't know his current financial situation.
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Re: Low income tickets and early entrance

Postby maryanimal » Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:49 pm

I was awared my ticket today also. Now the planning will begin.
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Re: Low income tickets and early entrance

Postby International Incident » Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:52 pm

junglesmacks wrote:Nice to know that you could have afforded a full price DD ticket were it offered yet went ahead and cheated the system to save a buck. Nice work.

Can we pull the plug on the LIT system yet?


JS - there is always someone who has to rort the system. Otherwise what would we complain about!

And yes, like you, I think LIT are a sham - I'd rather see the lower priced tickets awarded to art projects etc, or a greater number of "free" tickets provided to art projects to use as fundraisers, volunteers etc.
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Re: Low income tickets and early entrance

Postby Savannah » Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:54 pm

maryanimal wrote:I was awared my ticket today also. Now the planning will begin.


Congratulations, Maryanimal! :D
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Re: Low income tickets and early entrance

Postby maryanimal » Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:20 pm

Thanks Savannah! Now I need to get my hands on a sewing machine! I want to make some playa attire!
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Re: Low income tickets and early entrance

Postby Box Burner » Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:46 pm

International Incident wrote:
junglesmacks wrote:Nice to know that you could have afforded a full price DD ticket were it offered yet went ahead and cheated the system to save a buck. Nice work.

Can we pull the plug on the LIT system yet?


JS - there is always someone who has to rort the system. Otherwise what would we complain about!

And yes, like you, I think LIT are a sham - I'd rather see the lower priced tickets awarded to art projects etc, or a greater number of "free" tickets provided to art projects to use as fundraisers, volunteers etc.


So you mean that radical self reliance should not apply to art projects and theme camps?

LIT is not a sham, there are many folks who really do need a price break. Keep in mind that after the expense of getting all the stuff you need and then getting to the playa itself, the discount received for a LIT is just a small part of the overall cost. For some that small amount does make the difference in whether they will ultimately be able to go. Life in the default is difficult at best for some, a few who get the LIT still end up not being able to go and the cost of the ticket then becomes a loss because the LIT is not transferable. And whenever that happens you can bet it is a loss that they can ill afford.

There is plenty of time for theme camps and art installations to get the funds needed to get their people to the playa without resorting to LIT. get your group together and go do some work for a temp agency. I believe selling stuff has been mentioned. Yard sales are not difficult to do. You could probably get the needed funds in a single weekend. Yes this applies to individuals too. Be creative, be self reliant. And stop whining.

And FYI: Many people who get LIT do volunteer.

EDIT: guess I should have read the info first. LIT are now paid for at the gate. I think that is a change from the past. Thy used to be paid up front and refunded if you were not awarded a ticket I believe.
Last edited by Box Burner on Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Low income tickets and early entrance

Postby iconoplastyfervor » Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:51 pm

junglesmacks wrote:Nice to know that you could have afforded a full price DD ticket were it offered yet went ahead and cheated the system to save a buck. Nice work.

Can we pull the plug on the LIT system yet?


Junglesmacks, the person who sent me the email inviting me for the distributed ticket did not know that I had applied for the LI ticket and did not know I needed it. They just knew that I was an asset to the camp last year and that they wanted to make sure I could participate again. I did not reply or register for the distributed ticket and would never try to cheat the system. They actually sent me the email invitation after I had applied for the LI, so I was not playing both sides as you assume. I emailed them immediately and told them I could not afford the DD ticket and would not be applying for it. If it wasn't for that program last year, I wouldn't have been able to go and to contribute to the camp for what amounts to about 80 hrs of very skilled work before packing up and 2 extra unplanned but happily given strike days. If the camp could have recommended me for an LIT, I think they would have given knowledge of my situation and abilities to contribute. I was proud when I got the email from the camp inviting me, not ashamed. I was happy when I got the LIT email because it meant I was going to participate with them again this year in bigger and better ways.

Is it possible to express honest joy on here without some malcontent taking it the wrong way and making a federal case out of it?
Last edited by iconoplastyfervor on Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Low income tickets and early entrance

Postby linseedfaerie » Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:08 pm

Hello where can i receive information about fire dancing, or doing volunteer work for a ticket?
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Re: Low income tickets and early entrance

Postby Eric » Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:18 pm

linseedfaerie wrote:Hello where can i receive information about fire dancing, or doing volunteer work for a ticket?


A) Fire Dancing: if you want to learn about fire dancing, you'll want to start by finding someone in your area who does it. It's not something you want to learn watching youtube, unless you have a desire to spend time in the burn unit of your local hospital. Let us know where you're at, we might be able to point out resources.

B) Volunteering work for a ticket: lets just put it this way - if that's the question, the answer is probably "you can't". Most volunteers who are given a ticket (as opposed to getting a discount for one) have already volunteered for a department, sometimes for years. They've shown themselves to be worthy, and are given one. If you are volunteering with the expectation of getting a ticket, you are all but guaranteeing you won't get one. There are plenty of people doing the work for the joy & sense of community they get out of it, not trying to find a way to get in free.
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Re: Low income tickets and early entrance

Postby junglesmacks » Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:01 am

How about we take the $1.9 million in lost ticket revenue from the 10k LIT tickets and apply that savings to the rest of the tickets? At current prices, that would bring prices down $38/ticket.

As for LIT consideration, make it 100% dependent on level of volunteer work contribution. No more freebies. I shouldn't have to pay more just to help fund someone else's beer fund.

/end rant

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Re: Low income tickets and early entrance

Postby Rice » Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:28 am

junglesmacks wrote:How about we take the $1.9 million in lost ticket revenue from the 10k LIT tickets and apply that savings to the rest of the tickets? At current prices, that would bring prices down $38/ticket.

As for LIT consideration, make it 100% dependent on level of volunteer work contribution. No more freebies. I shouldn't have to pay more just to help fund someone else's beer fund.

/end rant

Now.. how about some more grumpy cat pictures..

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Re: Low income tickets and early entrance

Postby graidawg » Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:37 am

people keep talking about the ticket as the least of the expenses, lets look at that shall we? what are the other expenses? apart from getting to the burn itself, pretty much everything else can be reduced drastically.
Costumes or "burner" clothes? don't buy them cost = $0
camping equipment? well if you have been before = $0
if not well craigslist is your friend here (or other burners) given virtually a year to find the stuff (or get given it by other burners) = $0
food and water? lets assume you are going to eat 3 meals a day bacon for breakfast, a nice snack for lunch and a bit more substantial in the evening plus snacks say $15/day x 7 days = $105
booze? ok only my experience here i spent $150 but you could easily cut that down a lot with out being a total miser, say 2 handles for the week for personal and camp, plus say 12 beers a day or 4 crates so thats 2 x $25 = 4 x $20 = $130
or no booze at all and just drink at the many many bars on the playa, you wouldn't even have to go the same one twice to be smashed everyday.

so what do we have left? ah yes getting there, well that really depends on were you are coming from, for me flying in is the only option and thats going to be a real biggie, in the region of $1000, or if i break it down to manageable chunks $25/week. as people say ymmv but with imagination and effort you can get it even lower again depending on where you are coming from.

so lets sum up cost = food/water + getting there and ticket as a minimum or $105 + (unknown) + L.I.T.

many people have posted in other threads as total cost <$1000 so I think an increase of 20% would make a massive difference,

ok lets look at whats wrong with people using LIT every year, it should require a volounteer aspect, in one of the departments that can give reduced price tickets to returning volounteers, if you didn't do enough you didn't contribute to the event as a thank you for getting the low income ticket, or if you are part of a camp and essential they can pay half (or more) of your ticket or replace you if they don't think you are doing enough for the investment.
NEED an LIT to be able to come, put in some hours somewhere - get a staff ticket or your camp leader to invest in having you back.
personally i think people coming 3 times on a low income ticket should look at why they need it every year and other ways to get to TTiTD, I had the chance of a performer reduced price ticket my First year and could easily have volounteered at one of the departments that give reduced price tickets to get one this year,

If Burning Man is that important to you, DO NOT rely on getting a cheap ticket from BMorg do something to earn one
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Re: Low income tickets and early entrance

Postby iconoplastyfervor » Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:46 am

junglesmacks wrote:How about we take the $1.9 million in lost ticket revenue from the 10k LIT tickets and apply that savings to the rest of the tickets? At current prices, that would bring prices down $38/ticket.

As for LIT consideration, make it 100% dependent on level of volunteer work contribution. No more freebies. I shouldn't have to pay more just to help fund someone else's beer fund.

/end rant

Now.. how about some more grumpy cat pictures..


JS
First of all, they are releasing 4K LIT's, not 10K. And you were wrong about how and why I got mine, yet you seem to want to rant on anyway without acknowledging any error in your assumptions. Don't be misleadingly hyperbolic to make your point. Or hypocritical - you are sounding REALLY WHINY.
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Re: Low income tickets and early entrance

Postby 9ah » Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:34 am

junglesmacks wrote:How about we take the $1.9 million in lost ticket revenue from the 10k LIT tickets and apply that savings to the rest of the tickets? At current prices, that would bring prices down $38/ticket.

As for LIT consideration, make it 100% dependent on level of volunteer work contribution. No more freebies. I shouldn't have to pay more just to help fund someone else's beer fund.

/end rant

Now.. how about some more grumpy cat pictures..



There are 10k low income tickets this year??? I must have missed that in the mention, or are you including staff priced tickets (I'm not sure how much they're going for)... Are there 6k staff priced tickets this year?

I'd like to think that those that are awarded LIT aren't going out and using the extra $190 for their RV rental and feather headdresses.

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Re: Low income tickets and early entrance

Postby iconoplastyfervor » Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:53 am

I was really thankful for being able to go last year on one, and gave it back to the (big art) camp in many extra hours on and off-playa. I will again this year. If I could afford a full price ticket, I would buy one. Maybe next year? No extra feathers on my head, just a little more sweat.

There are 4K LIT's according to the official tickets page.
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Re: Low income tickets and early entrance

Postby theCryptofishist » Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:10 am

International Incident, I would like to know more about the word/idiom rort. Thank you.
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Low income debate

Postby junglesmacks » Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:44 am

My bad, my bad, my bad. I had 10k in my head and was posting from my phone. The figure drops to only $760,000 in.. let's call it.. "displaced" revenue.. since the rest of the ticket purchasers are left with the tab.

I stick by my original sentiment though. No worky worky, no ticky ticky.
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Re: Low income tickets and early entrance

Postby 9ah » Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:52 am

Fishy, he's trying to confuse you with his down unda lingo... :coffee:
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Re: Low income tickets and early entrance

Postby graidawg » Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:18 pm

9ah wrote:Fishy, he's trying to confuse you with her down unda lingo... :coffee:


fixed it
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Re: Low income tickets and early entrance

Postby MrBeardy » Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:35 pm

The burn is 7 months away. Post an add on craigslist or another help wanted board and pick up a few extra side jobs from someone. You will help them out, and make the extra cash in no time for a full ticket. As hard as it can be, if this is not an option and that money would need to be used for something other than BM, it might be a year to take a break and come back stronger than ever in 2014. Sure it is epic to be spending a week on the desert floor, but really it is a just a catalyst for us to maintain the feelings we get there year round anywhere...

Good luck to you!
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Re: Low income tickets and early entrance

Postby International Incident » Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:22 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:International Incident, I would like to know more about the word/idiom rort. Thank you.


It's pretty much an Australian and New Zealander term for sonething dodgy - mainly used in a political context but also used more widely to suggest that something someone has done isn't fair. See
http://www.abc.net.au/newsradio/txt/s1896574.htm
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Re: Low income tickets and early entrance

Postby 9ah » Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:45 pm

graidawg wrote:
9ah wrote:Fishy, he's trying to confuse you with her down unda lingo... :coffee:


fixed it



Good catch... I sometimes (always) screw up gender pronouns... Not a strong point of mine.

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Re: Low income tickets and early entrance

Postby Rice » Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:48 pm

9ah wrote:
graidawg wrote:
9ah wrote:Fishy, he's trying to confuse you with her down unda lingo... :coffee:


fixed it



Good catch... I sometimes (always) screw up gender pronouns... Not a strong point of mine.

:coffee:

I use they, their when I am uncertain of gender... On this board, it sometimes takes a while to figure out particular genders (not that it really matters, but you know?? :) )
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Re: Low income tickets and early entrance

Postby Caitieloo » Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:58 pm

[quote="iconoplastyfervor"]I was really thankful for being able to go last year on one, and gave it back to the (big art) camp in many extra hours on and off-playa. I will again this year. If I could afford a full price ticket, I would buy one. Maybe next year? No extra feathers on my head, just a little more sweat.

There are 4K LIT's according to the official tickets page.[/quote]


I feel the same way when I got my low income ticket last year. I didn’t just take it as a freebie. I volunteered anywhere a place needed help. I also carried a moop bag with me all day and night to clean up moop, more than the average person at Burning Man I say. Most people just focus on their own camp to make sure they get a green. It hurts me to think that people would take advantage of the LI program but it hurts me more to think people want it to be taken away completely. It’s a tremendous gift to people who need it and when I have the financial mean I’ll pay for my full price ticket and gladly help to donate part of that to help others.
I hope I get reward another LI ticket this year  still haven’t heard anything yet.
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Re: Low income tickets and early entrance

Postby Savannah » Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:05 pm

Caitieloo, you can get your quotes and other tags to work by clicking on:

User Control Panel
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Edit Posting Defaults
Tick Box Next to Enable BBCode

[Submit]
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Re: Low income tickets and early entrance

Postby 9ah » Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:08 pm

Rice wrote:
Good catch... I sometimes (always) screw up gender pronouns... Not a strong point of mine.

:coffee:
I use they, their when I am uncertain of gender... On this board, it sometimes takes a while to figure out particular genders (not that it really matters, but you know?? :) )



Very true... Me and my defaultia friends often refer to me as sir/Mister/him/boy...
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Re: Low income tickets and early entrance

Postby BBadger » Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:06 pm

graidawg wrote:so lets sum up cost = food/water + getting there and ticket as a minimum or $105 + (unknown) + L.I.T.

many people have posted in other threads as total cost <$1000 so I think an increase of 20% would make a massive difference,


I don't know about "massive." The *average* price of tickets went up by about 20%, which means roughly a $60 increase ($326 -> $380). If $60 is breaking the bank, BM should not be on the radar at all.

My main problem with the LIT program is that BM is inherently a luxury vacation, not something like a required pilgrimage to a holy city, or buying food to live. Luxuries are something that should be personally saved for and earned -- perhaps gifted, but not as funded through essentially a tax. If people want to donate to a LIT program, by all means let them, but using a social program with required contribution for the purpose of providing a vacation to others doesn't fly with me.

Another thing about the LIT program is that I really don't believe it's filling any niche. I've brought this up before: if the price difference between going and not going is the ticket price difference between a regular and LIT, you are living in such a hand-to-mouth state that you shouldn't be going anyway. If your financial situation is such that the program would make a significant difference -- but not a deal-maker -- then you should just save over two years. It's just how it goes. These are fundamentals.

A person certainly should not be allowed to utilize a LIT more than once. That person is effectively stealing tickets from those people who have at least never gone before, even if the financial need requirement is rather dubious. If you want to hop on the ride again, save up for a ticket yourself freeloader.

A retort that nearly always follows is that "I'm a poor <something> and don't have the means to afford a ticket to go to BM. I NEED THE LIT!" No you don't. There is no *need*. Going to BM is a luxury -- by definition something you don't need. If that makes BM sound elitist, then so be it. Not everyone is entitled to be a space tourist either, nor should we be taxed to make that possible.

If Burning Man is that important to you, DO NOT rely on getting a cheap ticket from BMorg do something to earn one


One problem with that is that under the current regime, for good reason, earning a discount on a ticket usually requires time put in before the event, or having put in time multiple over events so that you're determined to not be a flake. It makes sense, because signing on random "volunteers" will attract all kind of people who will just get their discounted ticket and disappear into the city with no recourse against them.
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