The Bar, Volume #4

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Re: The Bar, Volume #4

Postby Elliot » Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:12 pm

:D
I'm a huge fan of thermal mass. (And Thermal Mass would be a great name for a rock band. Thank you Dave Barry!)

I'm thinking the faucet would be hauled out of the pond every winter. Norwegians are accustomed to such chores. For example, every automobile in Norway has nine or ten wheels -- complete sets of summer and winter tires on rims. Every year, the morning of the first snow, every able-bodied Norwegian motorist is jacking up the car and changing all four wheels. No big deal.
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Re: The Bar, Volume #4

Postby aserendipity » Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:13 pm

whew !
You are all really cooking tonight .
Kudos Yggy, it had to happen for the good guys.
Elliot, surely you will find a way ..sort of Christ-like thought though.
I am going to turn in early..big doings tomorrow.
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Re: The Bar, Volume #4

Postby gyre » Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:31 pm

Hello Cats and Kittens

Elliot, a warning about thermal mass.
It will always have a slow rate of change, even when the weather doesn't.

I like the driveway curbstops.
Aren't you afraid the crackheads will steal them though?

I find crackheads to be great workers, provided you don't pay them until they're done.
It's a problem when you have to stop for any reason too.
They seem to lose their minds when they aren't active.
And they have a lot of negative pr.
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Re: The Bar, Volume #4

Postby Elliot » Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:12 pm

gyre wrote:Elliot, a warning about thermal mass.
It will always have a slow rate of change, even when the weather doesn't.

Yes, that is the very point. Some people call it "thermal flywheel effect", although there are no moving parts. A closed chamber filled with water is sometimes used.
My barn floor consists of 31 cubic yards of concrete. On a scorching summer afternoon it is still cool to the touch, keeping the work environment cooler than outside in the shade.
Conversely, in winter, a house that is warm during the day will not drop to freezing by morning if it has plenty of thermal mass. (As opposed to my almost mass-less trailer house which turns into an ice box overnight.)

Gosh, lots of technical talk in this bar today -- and all my fault! Time for a mug of snuggler (hot chocolate with peppermint schnaps). :D
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Re: The Bar, Volume #4

Postby Canoe » Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:17 am

Elliot wrote:
gyre wrote:... thermal mass. It will always have a slow rate of change, even when the weather doesn't.

Yes, that is the very point. Some people call it "thermal flywheel effect", although there are no moving parts. A closed chamber filled with water is sometimes used.
My barn floor consists of 31 cubic yards of concrete. On a scorching summer afternoon it is still cool to the touch, keeping the work environment cooler than outside in the shade.
Conversely, in winter, a house that is warm during the day will not drop to freezing by morning if it has plenty of thermal mass. (As opposed to my almost mass-less trailer house which turns into an ice box overnight.)

Which is why a living space with it can be so comfortable. Very stable interior temps. Even if you have a door open for a few minutes when it's cold outside, once you close the door you've lost most of the hot air out of the house, but the thermal mass quickly reheats both you (radiant) and the air.
If you had that much TM, you sure wouldn't be able to turn the thermostat down much for night, and back in the morning, as the lead times to reach your target temperature are too long. Although, for smaller amounts of thermal mass, there are learning thermostats, and computer programs, that can be given your target temps and they learn what lead times & temps are required to reach those targets for different outside conditions.
Poor (well, poorer) man's thermal mass: double layers of thick drywall, tile floors, thin layer of concrete under floors, stone fireplaces surrounds, interior stone architectural details.

Somewhat technical, but at least we're not discussing Fractionalized excitation in the spin-liquid state of a kagome-lattice antiferromagnet, and how that may be used for low-current high-speed magnet switches leading to super efficient electric motors or magnetically driven power. At my local bar, I've taught them to not ask what I was doing before I got there.
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Re: The Bar, Volume #4

Postby Canoe » Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:50 am

Canoe wrote:... Even if you have a door open for a few minutes when it's cold outside, once you close the door you've lost most of the hot air out of the house, but the thermal mass quickly reheats both you (radiant) and the air. ...

(forgot) You may have lost the hot air, but you've retained most of the heat.
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Re: The Bar, Volume #4

Postby AntiM » Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:42 am

Thumps ECM :coffee: :coffee: :coffee:

Aaaah, thermal mass i show we keep the house warmer and the gas bills low, a fire in our fireplace warms the rock surround nicely. Too bad we're in a valley inversion, with red air days we aren't allowed to burn.
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Re: The Bar, Volume #4

Postby Thorormr » Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:07 am

Waiting for a phone call so I know when my buddy is coming over to meet up for some range time. I got my arsenal loaded in ZAST, everything I own needs sighted in again after work I've done, and he has a few historic pieces he wants to work with. Looking forward to driving tacks with my dinner getter. Though he is already an hour late with his call.
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Re: The Bar, Volume #4

Postby magicmarty » Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:32 am

Morning Barflies. Coffee ... kickstarts the ECM. Been busy with the show and so not here. Week and a half from opening night with rehearsals every night until then. Soooooooo good to see Jella here again. Missed you kiddo! Elliot, the Norway trip and project sounds great. As always, YG, you did right with the blocks. Hope Pandorra's purple pinkie is back in the pink once more, Trillo. Lovely brekie, Misa. (((((((((((All)))))))))) Hi WB, ASD, MDF

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Re: The Bar, Volume #4

Postby MyDearFriend » Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:10 am

Ha, good morning, thanks for the :coffee: :coffee: :coffee: AntiM. I need a jolt, working from home again this weekend and plunged in over my head already, yikes.

Need some ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZs is what I need... where's a pillow?
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Re: The Bar, Volume #4

Postby aserendipity » Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:48 am

here are the smarty Boys teaching me about thermal mass when all I worried about is people mass
Yggy , Canoe,
where's Roark ?
and Gyre is talking again..missed you !

Marty, I hope to see your play..

Now getting ready going to maximum enjoy Capricorn event tonight

have a lovely day all
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Re: The Bar, Volume #4

Postby ygmir » Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:14 am

*wanders in, makes CCCW*
Thanks AntiM. Is your fireplace that, or do you have an insert, like a wood stove in it?

Yeah Elliot, I'd thought, too, about a structure made from those blocks. They cost 50 bucks each, and would stack and sort of lock like Lego's. A little mortar to make 'em solid and sticky, they'd be good for anything except a big earthquake, I bet.
If you decide to try, I can loan you my crane.

*strokes TV and heads for ROS*

Hi Marty!!
[media]
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Re: The Bar, Volume #4

Postby The CO » Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:12 am

Thank goodnes, coffee!

Ygmir, you have a crane? Cool.

I spent the last 3 days demoing part of a very famous stage in Hollywood. Much improvised crane work, with a gradall and chain motors.
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Re: The Bar, Volume #4

Postby H.G.Crosby » Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:25 am

one of my all time favorite cartoons, Yggy...


here's the Remix....


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Re: The Bar, Volume #4

Postby ygmir » Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:47 am

The CO wrote:Thank goodnes, coffee!

Ygmir, you have a crane? Cool.

I spent the last 3 days demoing part of a very famous stage in Hollywood. Much improvised crane work, with a gradall and chain motors.


Hey CO!
yeah, I made it myself, from a truss setting truck and a deuce and a half.

Image

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Re: The Bar, Volume #4

Postby theCryptofishist » Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:52 am

Canoe wrote:
Elliot wrote::D I've been thinking of building a house out of such blocks. Seriously. Those look to be the proper interlocking kind.

You'd certainly be the King of Thermal Mass.

Oh! Think of the regalia!
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Re: The Bar, Volume #4

Postby theCryptofishist » Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:55 am

Canoe wrote:
Elliot wrote:
gyre wrote:... thermal mass. It will always have a slow rate of change, even when the weather doesn't.

Yes, that is the very point. Some people call it "thermal flywheel effect", although there are no moving parts. A closed chamber filled with water is sometimes used.
My barn floor consists of 31 cubic yards of concrete. On a scorching summer afternoon it is still cool to the touch, keeping the work environment cooler than outside in the shade.
Conversely, in winter, a house that is warm during the day will not drop to freezing by morning if it has plenty of thermal mass. (As opposed to my almost mass-less trailer house which turns into an ice box overnight.)

Which is why a living space with it can be so comfortable. Very stable interior temps. Even if you have a door open for a few minutes when it's cold outside, once you close the door you've lost most of the hot air out of the house, but the thermal mass quickly reheats both you (radiant) and the air.
If you had that much TM, you sure wouldn't be able to turn the thermostat down much for night, and back in the morning, as the lead times to reach your target temperature are too long. Although, for smaller amounts of thermal mass, there are learning thermostats, and computer programs, that can be given your target temps and they learn what lead times & temps are required to reach those targets for different outside conditions.

I thought the whole point of turning down your thermostat down at night wasn't to sleep in a cooler house, but to save energy...
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Re: The Bar, Volume #4

Postby FIGJAM » Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:48 pm

65 degrees is suppose to be the perfect temp for sleeping. 8)
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Re: The Bar, Volume #4

Postby Elliot » Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:50 pm

:D
It was 45 F in here this morning. I jumped out of bed, threw the master switch on the furnace, jumped back in, snoozed for an hour or two, got up when it was 70 F. I call it my daily reentry burn. (As in the space shuttle retro rockets.)

Now it's 60 F both in and out and I'm tinkering with Playa Bicycles in the Barn. Life is good.
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Re: The Bar, Volume #4

Postby Savannah » Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:27 pm

FIGJAM wrote:65 degrees is suppose to be the perfect temp for sleeping. 8)


It's true . . .

I've read that one of the first thing an insomniac should do is make sure it's not too warm.
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Re: The Bar, Volume #4

Postby goathead » Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:37 pm

ygmir wrote:*screen wipes, please***************hahaa nice one Sav!!

so, I was asked to help the Jewish historic cemetery people with an issue, at the local cemetery of theirs, I had done work on:
It seems several of the "crack head" neighbors, have taken it upon themselves, to use the cemetery property, not only as a "more convenient for them" driveway (they have their own, but it's longer), but as an easy place to throw garbage, trash and brush.
When asked to stop, they cussed and were totally disrespectful to the older folks on the committee, who obviously could not counter this verbal abuse.
I was asked to come up with them and help find a remedy:
when I was there with these folks ( in their late 70's kind, and polite to this ass) this neighbor called us all "fuck heads" and said "you'll not block me, from going anywhere I want"..............well, with so many witnesses there, I just remained silent.
The folks were very upset, saying he has also threatened them with his pit bull dogs and masked friends to intimidate.
I said, "trust me, I'll block the drive, and happy to help"
They asked "what will you do"?
and I replied:
"don't worry, I'll stop this, and no one will get hurt, unless those folks really beg"
They are very concerned these crack heads will hurt someone, either themselves or by sicking their dogs on them.

I called a friend with two dumptrucks, and we loaded 3500 lb. blocks of concrete, 5 on each, and went there at 7 am.
in 10 mins, we dumped in a grid, these 10 blocks.

"yeah, crack head, you're right, no on will block your drive"...........and no one got hurt!!

I sent these pics to the cemetery folks:


Very nice job.

Did about the same thing to an FNG while he slept a couple of years ago.

Image

But I was nice to him, and left the straps on, so when he found the forklift he would be able to move it.

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Re: The Bar, Volume #4

Postby Rice » Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:37 pm

Its only 4F here right now, furnace cranked up from 59F to 70F - cat cuddled up to me on my shoulder and against my neck...

The stupid wind made it feel like -18F. Glad I am done my errands for the day.
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Re: The Bar, Volume #4

Postby AntiM » Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:38 pm

Hehehe.

My thermostat is set for 60 at night. Any warmer, I don't sleep well. The fireplace has a metal insert, but it warms the rock up nicely, the heat in the basement warms the upper floor enough to make a difference in how often the furnace kicks on.

DSCN0126 - Copy.jpg
DSCN0126 - Copy.jpg (122.16 KiB) Viewed 410 times


I'm screwed for summertime sleeping, if it gets too warm even with the swamp cooler, I sleep in the basement with a fan. Underground is always nicer.

Larry is off to CA, but we did go have a nice birthday lunch. I had a Tiki Torch Margarita, with chipotle pineapple juice! Yum.
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Re: The Bar, Volume #4

Postby goathead » Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:40 pm

Heavy equipment, a little imagination, can be inspiring and fun.

Image

with co-workers unattended vechiles.
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Re: The Bar, Volume #4

Postby ygmir » Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:26 pm

haha very nice GH!!

we're hoping to see ya, on the excursion to Gerlach next Sunday!!!
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Re: The Bar, Volume #4

Postby Elorrum » Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:19 pm

ygmir wrote:haha very nice GH!!

we're hoping to see ya, on the excursion to Gerlach next Sunday!!!

we're gonna keep watch on the car though?
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Re: The Bar, Volume #4

Postby ygmir » Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:29 pm

Elorrum wrote:
ygmir wrote:haha very nice GH!!

we're hoping to see ya, on the excursion to Gerlach next Sunday!!!

we're gonna keep watch on the car though?
:shock:


yeah, good call Elorrum! if we see one of those huge forklifts, or any large machinery, with a hysterically laughing goat driving, I'd say we're in trouble!!
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Re: The Bar, Volume #4

Postby Roark » Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:54 pm

The moral of this story is: If either Ygmir or Goathead should volunteer for valet duties, its time to hide your keys. :mrgreen:
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Re: The Bar, Volume #4

Postby ygmir » Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:57 pm

keys?
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Re: The Bar, Volume #4

Postby Roark » Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:58 pm

Oh no you don't... :mrgreen:
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