Is "Fake Indian dancing" discouraged?

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Re: Is "Fake Indian dancing" discouraged?

Postby jkisha » Mon Jan 14, 2013 3:04 pm

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Or this (piss christ), yet it won awards. What is art and artistic expression if not to shock, inspire and elicit controversy and question your beliefs of right/wrong, good/bad, and more importantly, why.
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Re: Is "Fake Indian dancing" discouraged?

Postby BBadger » Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:01 pm

That man would slip right off the cross as the nails work their way up between the bones in the hand. To properly crucify someone, the nails need to be carefully driven through the space between the bones below the wrist, taking great care not to hit important arteries/veins that would cause a quicker death. Only then can you create a situation where the person being crucified must continuously, consciously, and painfully hold himself up via all three nail-points to prevent asphyxiation -- a long, agonizing process that lasts until the person is completely exhausted.
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Re: Is "Fake Indian dancing" discouraged?

Postby Ugly Dougly » Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:17 pm

At least he didn't drown in somebody's piss.
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Re: Is "Fake Indian dancing" discouraged?

Postby unjonharley » Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:26 pm

You forgot the little slanted board at the feet.. Just enough so it can not be stood on.. I believe a pole was used.. Where the person was hung by the arms/wrist..
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Re: Is "Fake Indian dancing" discouraged?

Postby BBadger » Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:50 pm

And here people thought Longinus was just being a dick to Jesus.
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Re: Is "Fake Indian dancing" discouraged?

Postby CornMan » Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:02 pm

ygmir wrote:
Zeke Chaparral wrote:
Ugly Dougly wrote:You probably have your own forgotten prehistoric culture. It's a shame that you don't honor it.
That's what my Injun friends say anyway.


Yeah, it wasn't until I was an adult that I found out that my grandfather immigrated from Estonia. Maybe that's why we embraced this America thing so thoroughly. I don't know if I would want to try to adopt Estonian culture at this point. It would probably feel contrived.


Tere Homikust!!

Zeke:
Esti culture, is very near Pagan, judging by my experiences there.
I loved everything about the country, including the pervasive "Pagan" overtones and practices.
They claim to have been the last to "fall" to Xtianity, and some claim they just nodded, to go along.
It is a magical land, I'd love to return to. wonderful people and culture.
Check it out, really, it might fit better than you think.

Kuulmessini

*my spelling is undoubtedly wrong*


That makes me want to go check out the place.
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Re: Is "Fake Indian dancing" discouraged?

Postby ygmir » Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:07 pm

Zeke Chaparral wrote:
ygmir wrote:
Zeke Chaparral wrote:
Yeah, it wasn't until I was an adult that I found out that my grandfather immigrated from Estonia. Maybe that's why we embraced this America thing so thoroughly. I don't know if I would want to try to adopt Estonian culture at this point. It would probably feel contrived.


Tere Homikust!!

Zeke:
Esti culture, is very near Pagan, judging by my experiences there.
I loved everything about the country, including the pervasive "Pagan" overtones and practices.
They claim to have been the last to "fall" to Xtianity, and some claim they just nodded, to go along.
It is a magical land, I'd love to return to. wonderful people and culture.
Check it out, really, it might fit better than you think.

Kuulmessini

*my spelling is undoubtedly wrong*


That makes me want to go check out the place.


I don't think you'd regret it.
At least for me, it was world changing.
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Re: Is "Fake Indian dancing" discouraged?

Postby unjonharley » Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:11 pm

BBadger wrote:And here people thought Longinus was just being a dick to Jesus.


So, Jesus walks into this old no tell motel on route 666. Throws three barn spiles on the counter and asks.. Can you put me up for the night :?: :roll:
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Re: Is "Fake Indian dancing" discouraged?

Postby Simon of the Playa » Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:23 pm

shame on you...
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Re: Is "Fake Indian dancing" discouraged?

Postby Canoe » Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:40 pm

Sunbeam56 wrote:"Would you be dressed like a Holywood Indian while doing this?"
Naw - no feathers on the playa... :)
Maybe a leather bikini?

O.K., now we've established you'd have an audience...
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Re: Is "Fake Indian dancing" discouraged?

Postby Canoe » Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:42 pm

unjonharley wrote:So, Jesus walks into this old no tell motel on route 666. Throws three barn spiles on the counter and asks.. Can you put me up for the night :?: :roll:

I'd always wondered on the origins of "oh holy night"...
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Re: Is "Fake Indian dancing" discouraged?

Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:15 pm

BBadger wrote:And here people thought Longinus was just being a dick to Jesus.

There are a lot of "positive" ways that can be read. One is that Christ is so holy that it's no longer "piss". (I don't know what it is, maybe holy water, maybe super piss...) Another, is that, if you, or Longinus is one of those persons to whom piss is "golden" then again, no offense.

However, I don't find any deep philosophical issues in that redskins head. I think it's cheesey and should be changed.

I guess for me the question is, who controls the cultural expression. If we are "all equal" then borrowing isn't an issue of taking another's culture away from them. If there is a hierarchy and the richer and more powerful is taking from the poor and powerless, then it gets tricky.

Believe or not, I thoroughly agree that
Religion and art is (sic) inherently syncretic...

Well, except for the grammar, I guess.
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Re: Is "Fake Indian dancing" discouraged?

Postby nilasnake » Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:10 pm

stupid is....as stupid does...knock yourself out. tribal people should just roll their eyes.
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Re: Is "Fake Indian dancing" discouraged?

Postby Canoe » Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:07 pm

nilasnake wrote:stupid is....as stupid does...knock yourself out. tribal people should just roll their eyes.

Wouldn't be the first time.
Wouldn't be the last.

There are some sacred dances that would get some hot under the collar, especially when there are versions "approved" for public consumption. But despite using the term Ghost Dance (present day status unknown), I can't see how a one person Shuffle, Stomp, Think & Pray could ever be construed to be a multi-person Round Dance.
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Re: Is "Fake Indian dancing" discouraged?

Postby Scatter42 » Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:12 am

Sunbeam56 wrote:"Would you be dressed like a Hollywood Indian while doing this?"

Naw - no feathers on the playa... :)
Maybe a leather bikini?



While you’re at this, you might consider some research on the jingle dress. Without copying it directly, you may find some elements of this dress (colors, jingles and whatever else) to add to a garment(s) of choice and call it your own - not only will you have the visual of dance and color but you’ll have the pleasant sound of the jingles. Doubt whatever spirits you dance to will protest much if at all and your eventual participants will have a nice rhythm to dance to as well…. just a humble suggestion late in the conversation

I’ll now return you to your regular programming
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Re: Is "Fake Indian dancing" discouraged?

Postby DoctorIknow » Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:15 am

Savannah wrote:The breadth of responses here is probably similar to what it'll be out there, i.e., no one can know what kind of reaction you'll get. The city does not move in lockstep--it's got people from all over the world.....

If it's organic to you, rather than a performance, there's no reason you can't wait and just decide on the playa.


Hey, if anyone even notices you, you should be honored. I'm afraid a whole lot of burners are more focused on getting to some destination instead of seeing what is right in front of them.

As said, it isn't quite documented exactly what the Ghost Dance was, but for sure you will get an enthusiastic crowd if you do what Richard Harris did around 3:05 in this video:

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Re: Is "Fake Indian dancing" discouraged?

Postby Eric » Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:35 am

DoctorIknow wrote:but for sure you will get an enthusiastic crowd if you do what Richard Harris did around 3:05 in this video:


I know a guy who did suspension performances (including hanging from hooks through his skin while swinging & pushing quills through his cheeks on stage). Utterly gorgeous man, but we couldn't even kiss after he performed due to infection concerns from the open wounds in his mouth. He wouldn't do suspension on the playa to avoid playa chest-wound (and you thought playa foot was bad... )

I'm also a huge wimp when it comes to little things like needles, I could only watch his performances twice - just thinking about him swinging up there makes me light headed.
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Re: Is "Fake Indian dancing" discouraged?

Postby Savannah » Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:46 am

Eric wrote:
DoctorIknow wrote:but for sure you will get an enthusiastic crowd if you do what Richard Harris did around 3:05 in this video:


I know a guy who did suspension performances (including hanging from hooks through his skin while swinging & pushing quills through his cheeks on stage). Utterly gorgeous man, but we couldn't even kiss after he performed due to infection concerns from the open wounds in his mouth. He wouldn't do suspension on the playa to avoid playa chest-wound (and you thought playa foot was bad... )

I'm also a huge wimp when it comes to little things like needles, I could only watch his performances twice - just thinking about him swinging up there makes me light headed.


I'm not bothered by needles whatsoever, but hook suspension is probably not something I would watch . . . it's the distortion of perfectly sound, lovely skin, the fear of seeing it tear--and yeah, the potential for infection--that disturbs me too.

However, if someone has health insurance and knows the risk, it's like "Yeah . . . do your thing. Maybe I'll peek. Your pain tolerance is intriguing, but I think I'll wait over here until we can go for a drink." :lol:

Oo, we just drifted the thread.

. . . Leather bikini, leather bikini!
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Re: Is "Fake Indian dancing" discouraged?

Postby ygmir » Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:47 am

Savannah wrote:
Eric wrote:
DoctorIknow wrote:but for sure you will get an enthusiastic crowd if you do what Richard Harris did around 3:05 in this video:


I know a guy who did suspension performances (including hanging from hooks through his skin while swinging & pushing quills through his cheeks on stage). Utterly gorgeous man, but we couldn't even kiss after he performed due to infection concerns from the open wounds in his mouth. He wouldn't do suspension on the playa to avoid playa chest-wound (and you thought playa foot was bad... )

I'm also a huge wimp when it comes to little things like needles, I could only watch his performances twice - just thinking about him swinging up there makes me light headed.


I'm not bothered by needles whatsoever, but hook suspension is probably not something I would watch . . . it's the distortion of perfectly sound, lovely skin, the fear of seeing it tear--and yeah, the potential for infection--that disturbs me too.

However, if someone has health insurance and knows the risk, it's like "Yeah . . . do your thing. Maybe I'll peek. Your pain tolerance is intriguing, but I think I'll wait over here until we can go for a drink." :lol:

Oo, we just drifted the thread.

. . . Leather bikini, leather bikini!


damn!!
*switches off webcam*
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Re: Is "Fake Indian dancing" discouraged?

Postby 5280MeV » Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:29 am

theCryptofishist wrote:Believe or not, I thoroughly agree that
Religion and art is (sic) inherently syncretic...

Well, except for the grammar, I guess.


Dammit.

Speaking of syncretism, after getting curious and looking it up, I realized that the Ghost Dance Movement was heavy infused with Christian mysticism:

Do not tell the white people about this. Jesus is now upon the earth. He appears like a cloud.


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Re: Is "Fake Indian dancing" discouraged?

Postby unjonharley » Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:58 am

Truth be told, The eastern native Am. were killed for not converting to the white mans "dog". The history books try to tell it six ways different..Take the holy smokes out and the truth is there..

I asked Grandfather (@ dinner) about the Ghost Dance.. Belong to one tribe.. It was adopted by the others after the christians come.. I'm sure he will call me today and tell me which tribe the dance belong to.
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Re: Is "Fake Indian dancing" discouraged?

Postby Sunbeam56 » Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:42 pm

I guess I would qualify as a poser. I am trying to get to BM 2013, prior attempt was 2011 (the year of the Phoenix). Something relatively significant stopped me - probably a work assignment.
My lack of committment is not ethereal, its practical. My schedule is not self-determined. But I've done what I can to reserve the time, and will guard it jealously.
We are practiced campers - albeit Yuppie Scum Campers. Generator, tents, full kitchen... lovely shower.
And we are planning to bring a large quantity of water.

Mostly, tho, this is something of a vision quest. One of those things you have to do before you die.
I've been to Ireland.
I've tried too many weird adventures (sky-diving, what a horrible thing).

The spiritual aspects of the Temple and of dancing to appease and petition the dead are appealing to me.

So yeah, Fuck 'em if they can't grok.
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Re: Is "Fake Indian dancing" discouraged?

Postby Rice » Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:12 pm

Sunbeam56 wrote:I guess I would qualify as a poser. I am trying to get to BM 2013, prior attempt was 2011 (the year of the Phoenix). Something relatively significant stopped me - probably a work assignment.
My lack of committment is not ethereal, its practical. My schedule is not self-determined. But I've done what I can to reserve the time, and will guard it jealously.
We are practiced campers - albeit Yuppie Scum Campers. Generator, tents, full kitchen... lovely shower.
And we are planning to bring a large quantity of water.

Mostly, tho, this is something of a vision quest. One of those things you have to do before you die.
I've been to Ireland.
I've tried too many weird adventures (sky-diving, what a horrible thing).

The spiritual aspects of the Temple and of dancing to appease and petition the dead are appealing to me.

So yeah, Fuck 'em if they can't grok.

Sounds like you have pretty high expectations from your (possible) upcoming Burning Man Experience.

All things being equal: Burning Man gives you what you need, not what you want...

Maybe I'll see ya on the playa.
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Re: Is "Fake Indian dancing" discouraged?

Postby FIGJAM » Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:12 pm

R.A.H.
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Re: Is "Fake Indian dancing" discouraged?

Postby Rice » Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:15 pm

FIGJAM wrote:R.A.H.

Might be the case. Perhaps there is more than what meets the eye. . . Maybe
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Re: Is "Fake Indian dancing" discouraged?

Postby FIGJAM » Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:29 pm

Sunbeam is a friend of Bob's!

I can always tell! 8)
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Re: Is "Fake Indian dancing" discouraged?

Postby Canoe » Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:50 pm

unjonharley wrote:...I asked Grandfather (@ dinner) about the Ghost Dance.. Belong to one tribe.. It was adopted by the others after the christians come.. I'm sure he will call me today and tell me which tribe the dance belong to.

To greatly simplify:
Brought from God to the Northern Paiute (which includes the Pyramid Lake Paiute, one BRC's tolerant neighbours/hosts) by a Paiute Prophet, Wovoka (Jack Wilson, from South of Fernley), the Dance In A Circle movement's message of peace and a renewed earth was reported to be well received. So much so that other Western tribes traveled to him to bring it back to their own people. It was said to have been modified by some of those taking it back to their people, to better fit various tribes' beliefs.
Some of the Lakoka Sioux believed that a "renewed Earth" in which "all evil is washed away" meant 'the white man, his ways and garbage' will go away, and so they did, as they were said to call it, the Spirit Dance, a lot. Which concerned the Army, a lot. Which led to the stupid.
It's said that the Sioux Spirit Dance was translated into English as Ghost Dance.

I haven't heard of any Prophet or Society starting up with the Ghost Dance after Wounded Knee,
Sunbeam56 wrote:...After Wounded Knee there was a "Ghost Dance" Society. It was started by a Prophet who believe that they could dance the world to peace. Its a modern charismatic sort of movement, still practiced today - and I am NOT part of it.
but I did see a modern video where a (Northern?) Paiute Shaman stated that she was one of six who still knew the Ghost Dance songs. This means the songs were taught, which strongly suggests to me that either the movement and/or the ceremony continued to have importance to at least some Paiute into modern times. I have no idea if the Ghost Dance is considered sacred in the present day by any peoples.

I cannot see how Sunbeam56's sincere desire to pay respect to her spiritual aspects of the Temple through a one person Shuffle, Stomp, Think & Pray could ever be construed to be a Ghost Dance, a multi-person Round Dance.
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Re: Is "Fake Indian dancing" discouraged?

Postby Sunbeam56 » Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:55 am

Maybe I should have called it the elephant dance. Move, shuffle, stamp. That's what elephants do, too.
Until they stampede - then they move fast, shuffle really fast, and stamp everything in their way. :)

Just sayin' - Since I'm not Indian except by inspiration - how could it be an Indian dance?
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Re: Is "Fake Indian dancing" discouraged?

Postby Canoe » Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:53 am

Sunbeam56 wrote:...Just sayin' - Since I'm not Indian except by inspiration - how could it be an Indian dance?

Probably due to
Sunbeam56 - "... I perfectly intend to "fake-Indian" dance. Specifically, as much as I can of the Sious Ghost Dance. At sunrise. Near the Temple."

Which is materially different from your later description of a one person Shuffle, Stomp, Think & Pray.

As to your original
Sunbeam56 - Where does this fit on the meter of weird versus usual?
Not very.
But probably very personally satisfying.

Cons?
You might get some ridicule?
You might get any tribal people present rolling their eyes, yet again.
Pneumonia? If you're still going for the sunrise bit, depending on the night temps, you may want something a little warmer than a leather bikini, or you may end up doing a lot more stomping than you planned.

I would suggest you come up with a name for what you're doing, so if asked you don't flip out "Ghost Dance" or "Spirit Dance", if you're concerned about negative perceptions.
I'd expect "Just Dancing" would work fine.
"Long Form Contemplative Zumba" might work too...
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Re: Is "Fake Indian dancing" discouraged?

Postby Ugly Dougly » Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:01 am

My suggestion:
This is a platform for everything original. This is an artist's one chance.
Don't do "ghost" dance or "sun dance" or anyone's else's "dance".
Do "your" dance, and do the fuck out of it.
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