Burner Profiles?

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.

Burner Profiles?

Postby Bounce530 » Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:51 pm

TomServo wrote:Pickles are cucumbers soaked in EVIL!
User avatar
Bounce530
 
Posts: 1535
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:26 am
Location: H at about 4:25ish
Burning Since: 2007
Camp Name: BRC Guardian docking pad

Re: Burner Profiles?

Postby moonrise » Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:47 pm

Seems like a great plan, as long as it doesn't foster an incestuos BRC.

Must have Burngins! :P Mmmm...
I'm the MAN in a truck, burner who is stuck, you're in luck! I'll whip out my BIG tow chain and not charge you, not even one lousy buck!
User avatar
moonrise
 
Posts: 2145
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 11:07 pm
Location: Silver Circle; Reno, Tahoe, Vegas

Re: Burner Profiles?

Postby maladroit » Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:30 pm

Already filled mine out due to possible Directed Group action.
maladroit
 
Posts: 770
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:37 pm
Burning Since: 2012

Re: Burner Profiles?

Postby BoyScoutGirl » Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:44 pm

I definitely don't like it. It seems too much like BookFace and all those other data-mining schemes. Sure, you can use it to connect with people and disseminate information, but remember that the currency of the internet is information, especially information on social connections.

Of course, everyone is free to participate in this profiling as much or as little as they like, apart the basics of first name, last name, email address, and mailing address.
When he lights his streetlamp, it is as if he brought one more star to life, or one flower.
When he puts out his lamp, he sends the flower, or the star, to sleep.
That is a beautiful occupation.

- Le Petit Prince, Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
User avatar
BoyScoutGirl
 
Posts: 930
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:04 pm
Location: SD, CA
Camp Name: Lamplighters!

Re: Burner Profiles?

Postby trilobyte » Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:22 pm

It's actually not something to be used for social networking purposes. At all. The information is not published or searchable by other users (as the blog post specifies), it's for the purposes of registering for things like Burning Man tickets (you won't be able to participate in ticket sales without it), theme camps, art projects, etc. Those who have registered projects in the past are familiar with the process, as each year they have to keep filling out all those questions again with each project/camp/vehicle that's registered. This is a single registration point for all those projects.
User avatar
trilobyte
Site Admin
 
Posts: 10695
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 11:54 pm
Location: San Francisco
Burning Since: 2004
Camp Name: Eridu Society

Re: Burner Profiles?

Postby theCryptofishist » Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:58 pm

So, I don't have to fill out all that stuff about my van each time?
The theme camp basics are already there?

I really don't see any use to it, based on how they explain it. Maybe I'm not sophisticated enough, and everyone else already knows. But I just imagine that they broker ads here... Profiles are not searchable, but we have 3200 people who might be interested in gitd butterfly wings.
Simon's real sig line?

Embrace the Sock

Winners never quilt, quilters never win...
User avatar
theCryptofishist
 
Posts: 37469
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 10:28 am
Location: In Exile
Burning Since: 2017

Re: Burner Profiles?

Postby trilobyte » Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:23 am

People who actually read the blog post may have caught this bit…

Your information will be private and will not be shared — nor will it be searchable on the internet. (For more details see our Privacy Policy.)

As for the details of your van, I'm not sure that's the case. You'd still need to fill out the questionnaire each year, but the basic user info is there (it's burner profiles, not burner van profiles). Maybe at some point down the road the system would expand to include more comprehensive stuff, but to start with it's just going for the basics.
User avatar
trilobyte
Site Admin
 
Posts: 10695
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 11:54 pm
Location: San Francisco
Burning Since: 2004
Camp Name: Eridu Society

Re: Burner Profiles?

Postby BoyScoutGirl » Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:25 am

I guess I imagined it will be hooked into Spark, hence the social angle.

Looking at it again, it does seem more like a streamlining process: the org is saving information about each person and what said person does in one database so it's easier to contact the right groups of people for various announcements, etc. Having a saved profile would help avoid filling out redundant information about camps and vehicles, especially year-to-year.

Making this clear post about profiles is definitely in the spirit of transparency. However, keeping the data unsearchable by search engines by no means fixes the the problem of giving out a bunch of personal information, even if you don't consider most of it very personal. Having never filled out extensive registration for the org with regard to a mutant vehicle or camp, say, I don't have a lot of experience with what's being asked. All I know is that once information is given out over the 'net, un-giving it becomes impossible or nearly so.

Honestly, just knowing that a person can't buy a ticket through the standard means without their phone number will be saved is enough to get my hackles up.

Hell, maybe I'm just being paranoid - it is just a customer database after all. Three cheers for our benevolent dictators and all that :coffee:
When he lights his streetlamp, it is as if he brought one more star to life, or one flower.
When he puts out his lamp, he sends the flower, or the star, to sleep.
That is a beautiful occupation.

- Le Petit Prince, Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
User avatar
BoyScoutGirl
 
Posts: 930
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:04 pm
Location: SD, CA
Camp Name: Lamplighters!

Re: Burner Profiles?

Postby theCryptofishist » Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:31 am

trilobyte wrote:People who actually read the blog post may have caught this bit…

Your information will be private and will not be shared — nor will it be searchable on the internet. (For more details see our Privacy Policy.)

As for the details of your van, I'm not sure that's the case. You'd still need to fill out the questionnaire each year, but the basic user info is there (it's burner profiles, not burner van profiles). Maybe at some point down the road the system would expand to include more comprehensive stuff, but to start with it's just going for the basics.

I read the blog post and I caught that. What I was trying to get at was the idea that the llc or non-profit would search and sell without revealing who they are. Sort of a broker/gatekeeper type deal, where the information per se was never sold to an outside party, but the (oh fuck, I"m gonna say it) org sells the fact that there is information and passes on the commercial entity's information to the burners. Perhaps it's ridiculous, but as I don't see the utility from what they explained, I don't understand the point, so I make up something to keep my mind from seeing this as being pointless.

If it's just "next year, we'll remember you when you sign up for tickets" well, that's different. Maybe.
Simon's real sig line?

Embrace the Sock

Winners never quilt, quilters never win...
User avatar
theCryptofishist
 
Posts: 37469
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 10:28 am
Location: In Exile
Burning Since: 2017

Re: Burner Profiles?

Postby maladroit » Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:35 am

I won't give just anyone my personal information, but BMORG is one that I'd prefer not to suspect of evil or irresponsible actions until they've proven otherwise. Commodification (beyond tickets) would be a BIT of a stretch at this point, no?
maladroit
 
Posts: 770
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:37 pm
Burning Since: 2012

Re: Burner Profiles?

Postby trilobyte » Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:55 am

There is a world of difference between Burning Man and Facebook or Google. While all them have terms and conditions and privacy policies, the language of them is different. With sites like FB and Google, you grant them those rights and they take every advantage of that permission. Burning Man's does not, and the company has no intention of selling your information, even in a chopped up format.
User avatar
trilobyte
Site Admin
 
Posts: 10695
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 11:54 pm
Location: San Francisco
Burning Since: 2004
Camp Name: Eridu Society

Re: Burner Profiles?

Postby BBadger » Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:36 am

I'd like to see what these "new features" for the profile end up being. Though I don't worry that the info will be used in the manner of social networks, I suspect that this is to maintain a history of individuals in the same manner that theme camps have a history behind them for placement. I just hope that this profile info might (d)evolve into sort of preferential treatment/seniority system at the individual level. I'm sure some people would like that, especially after so many True Colors™ were revealed last year; however, personally I like the idea of the blank slate as far as who gets tickets. Directed Distribution is at least at the camp level.

But we'll see.
"The essence of tyranny is not iron law. It is capricious law." -- Christopher Hitchens

Hate reading my replies? Click here to add me to your plonk (foe) list.
User avatar
BBadger
 
Posts: 3979
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:37 am
Location: (near) Portland, OR, USA
Burning Since: I'm not sure

Re: Burner Profiles?

Postby trilobyte » Sat Jan 12, 2013 8:13 am

Registered camps, vehicles, and art projects already have something of a permanent record, each department has their own electronic records going back many years (far longer than either you or I have been attending the event). The only consideration as far as directed tickets is concerned is "in good standing" - if a camp or project had a raft of complaints or issues, was involved in ticket scalping, or a record of serious MOOP map problems (not minor stuff, but solid red or black spots), then there could be a problem that affected directed ticketing. If a registered camp/project had something in their records that prevented them from being selected for directed ticketing last year, but they cleaned things up and had a great year on the playa in 2012 and gotten back into good standing again, then they'd potentially be eligible.

The intent of eventually expanding the program as far as I understand it is to help improve the registration process. I'm guessing you don't have much in the way of experience registering theme camps, mutant vehicles, or art projects but the questionnaires are long and tedious. And every field is blank for every project every year.
User avatar
trilobyte
Site Admin
 
Posts: 10695
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 11:54 pm
Location: San Francisco
Burning Since: 2004
Camp Name: Eridu Society

Re: Burner Profiles?

Postby BBadger » Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:22 am

Well for this I'm referring to profiles at the individual level and how they're going to expand that, or what it is really going to improve. It's probably first, and foremost, to avoid having to scrub profiles for scalpers each year.

Great if they have a "profile" system for theme camps, mutant vehicles, art projects, etc. I don't know how streamlined the profile system can really make those since much of the content is/should be furnished anew -- just like résumés ought to be -- with exception to theme camps or repeat-art. Maybe it'd be good for retaining status info, etc. like an online order status.
"The essence of tyranny is not iron law. It is capricious law." -- Christopher Hitchens

Hate reading my replies? Click here to add me to your plonk (foe) list.
User avatar
BBadger
 
Posts: 3979
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:37 am
Location: (near) Portland, OR, USA
Burning Since: I'm not sure

Re: Burner Profiles?

Postby trilobyte » Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:25 am

From memory, I'd guess that probably 10 or so of the 70 odd questions I fill out in the theme camp questionnaire each year is effectively the same general user information, and not specific to the project.
User avatar
trilobyte
Site Admin
 
Posts: 10695
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 11:54 pm
Location: San Francisco
Burning Since: 2004
Camp Name: Eridu Society

Re: Burner Profiles?

Postby MegsLegs » Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:28 am

Our theme camp leadership changes hands every year- including the person who writes the application, and w/w/w listings for the cafe stage so it would be nice if each camp member could access the theme camp information for future reference. I imagine that will not be the case though.
User avatar
MegsLegs
 
Posts: 33
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2010 10:39 am
Location: Toronto, Ontario

Re: Burner Profiles?

Postby trilobyte » Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:58 am

megslegs - I don't believe anyone has said anything about having access to theme camp application archives. The burner profiles system is a user profile system, and the intent appears to be that the user profile info may someday be expanded to help save a few steps on the registration process. If your camp leader changes out each year, then the user profile info would subsequently change. Where I imagine you'd see some benefit is if, in some future year, the person running your camp that year already had a burner profile (pretty likely, unless your camp leaders are typically first year burners). When that person goes to fill out the questionnaire, the user profile stuff would already be there. Remember though, all that is guesswork on future functionality - at launch time it's only a ticket registration thing.

Will Chase wrote:Initially, the Burner Profile will be used as part of the pre-registration process for ticket sales to Burning Man 2013.
User avatar
trilobyte
Site Admin
 
Posts: 10695
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 11:54 pm
Location: San Francisco
Burning Since: 2004
Camp Name: Eridu Society

Re: Burner Profiles?

Postby BoyScoutGirl » Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:12 pm

trilobyte wrote:People who actually read the blog post may have caught this bit…

Your information will be private and will not be shared — nor will it be searchable on the internet. (For more details see our Privacy Policy.)


You'll note that the Privacy Policy makes no comment as to whether or not we can have our profile removed, deleted, deactivated, or otherwise purged from the system. Maybe that's an option once you log in to your profile - heck, maybe it's incredibly easy to do - but I grow wary when my right to remove the data disappears from the formal contract. It's that wariness that leads me to be reluctant to give out the information in the first place.
When he lights his streetlamp, it is as if he brought one more star to life, or one flower.
When he puts out his lamp, he sends the flower, or the star, to sleep.
That is a beautiful occupation.

- Le Petit Prince, Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
User avatar
BoyScoutGirl
 
Posts: 930
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:04 pm
Location: SD, CA
Camp Name: Lamplighters!

Re: Burner Profiles?

Postby maladroit » Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:41 pm

Someone might find out how awesome you are.
maladroit
 
Posts: 770
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:37 pm
Burning Since: 2012

Re: Burner Profiles?

Postby 9ah » Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:30 am

trilobyte wrote:It's actually not something to be used for social networking purposes. At all. The information is not published or searchable by other users (as the blog post specifies), it's for the purposes of registering for things like Burning Man tickets (you won't be able to participate in ticket sales without it), theme camps, art projects, etc. Those who have registered projects in the past are familiar with the process, as each year they have to keep filling out all those questions again with each project/camp/vehicle that's registered. This is a single registration point for all those projects.



Is this like a public UltaNet? I clicked on the link.but haven' completed my profile yet.
Illuminate. Navigate. Celebrate.
What would you do if you knew you couldn't fail?
User avatar
9ah
 
Posts: 831
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:37 am
Burning Since: 2017
Camp Name: Lamplighters

Re: Burner Profiles?

Postby trilobyte » Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:32 am

BoyScoutGirl - given your level of paranoia, you may want to just not fill out the profile part to begin with, and keep it at the absolute minimum information for purchasing tickets.

9ah - no, it is not like an ultranet.
User avatar
trilobyte
Site Admin
 
Posts: 10695
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 11:54 pm
Location: San Francisco
Burning Since: 2004
Camp Name: Eridu Society

Re: Burner Profiles?

Postby 9ah » Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:23 am

Thanks Trilo... So I went ahead and 'did it'... that was painless.

If they integrate LIT processing into that system it'd be pretty awesome for some, I suppose.
Illuminate. Navigate. Celebrate.
What would you do if you knew you couldn't fail?
User avatar
9ah
 
Posts: 831
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:37 am
Burning Since: 2017
Camp Name: Lamplighters

Re: Burner Profiles?

Postby FIGJAM » Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:43 am

Where did you did it?

I can't find it on the ticket page. :?
"Don't buy ur Burn...........Build ur Burn!"

Fuck Im Good Just Ask Me
User avatar
FIGJAM
 
Posts: 7097
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:39 am
Location: apache junction az.

Re: Burner Profiles?

Postby trilobyte » Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:04 am

The profiles have not yet launched publicly. Stay tuned to the JRS and Burning Blog for links when that happens.
User avatar
trilobyte
Site Admin
 
Posts: 10695
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 11:54 pm
Location: San Francisco
Burning Since: 2004
Camp Name: Eridu Society

Re: Burner Profiles?

Postby mdmf007 » Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:55 am

Anything that captures data always draws questions. Im sure its mostly benign information already floating in the ether. Of course security is a concern for a database, but to be honest I have only had my information of any value stolen from my mail or garbage or from work.

your mileage may vary.

Last - its not an ultranet, or intraweb, but the first sentient megaweb. (sounded funnier in my head)
One of the Meanie Greenies (Figjam 2013)
User avatar
mdmf007
Moderator
 
Posts: 4773
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:32 pm
Location: my computer
Burning Since: 1999
Camp Name: ESD

Re: Burner Profiles?

Postby BoyScoutGirl » Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:04 pm

trilobyte wrote:BoyScoutGirl - given your level of paranoia, you may want to just not fill out the profile part to begin with, and keep it at the absolute minimum information for purchasing tickets.


That's the plan, if I decide to go this year (my uncertainty has nothing to do with this profile privacy question and everything to do with "real life").
When he lights his streetlamp, it is as if he brought one more star to life, or one flower.
When he puts out his lamp, he sends the flower, or the star, to sleep.
That is a beautiful occupation.

- Le Petit Prince, Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
User avatar
BoyScoutGirl
 
Posts: 930
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:04 pm
Location: SD, CA
Camp Name: Lamplighters!

Re: Burner Profiles?

Postby Roberto Dobbisano » Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:04 pm

like this?
Attachments
profile.jpg
profile.jpg (133 KiB) Viewed 4586 times
one nation, under a groove.
User avatar
Roberto Dobbisano
 
Posts: 2658
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 5:54 pm
Location: Dobbidossola, Italy.

Re: Burner Profiles?

Postby H.G.Crosby » Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:47 am

[media]
Once I noticed I was on fire, I decided to relax and enjoy the fall™
User avatar
H.G.Crosby
 
Posts: 1671
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2009 4:47 pm
Location: Boston, New York, Paris, Tangiers

Re: Burner Profiles?

Postby illy dilly » Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:23 pm

I was a bit concerned at first because I too thought it smelled like a "social networking" profile sort of system. But, when I got to the two sentences in the Blog that basically say "It is not searchable. And other users don't see your information" I felt more comfortable.
I personally don't see it being anything different than the billing information (name and mailing address) than we've had to give in the past.

I think maybe using the word "profile" has a connotative association that makes people think of Social Networking type sites.
Either way, as long as it is private and kept secure I don't believe its a serious issue, or any different than anything you've had to submit in the past.

I suppose that if you really didn't want to provide your real first/last name. You could get one of those prepaid sorta VISA/MasterCard's, and when you register the card register it to what ever fake name you made up.
Though, the billing address would probably need to be the same as the shipping address.
Why don't ya stick your head in that hole and find out? ~piehole
Plan for the worst, expect the best. Make the most out of it under any conditions. If you cannot do that you will never enjoy yourself. ~CrispyDave
User avatar
illy dilly
 
Posts: 4798
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:02 pm
Location: Denver, CO
Burning Since: 2009
Camp Name: Gnome Dome

Re: Burner Profiles?

Postby Roberto Dobbisano » Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:10 pm

"please list political affiliation, multi national corporation and/or and current governments you are working for..."




"we are frum, um, Brazil, ja, that's the ticket"....
Attachments
3515t84.jpg
3515t84.jpg (124.61 KiB) Viewed 4452 times
one nation, under a groove.
User avatar
Roberto Dobbisano
 
Posts: 2658
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 5:54 pm
Location: Dobbidossola, Italy.

Next

Return to Politics & Philosophy

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest