Should BM ban motorized scooters (except art vehicles) ?

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.

Postby christo » Sat Sep 13, 2003 8:42 am

You know my doctor and you have been talking to him? hmmm

I'm serious - I HATE BIKES AT BURNING MAN!

They are NOT good for your health compared to jogging. Any burner can run anywhere they need to go and get an invigorating workout for free. Bikes are a literal pain it the butt! My health suffers every time I trip over one of these mass wads of fallen steel.

I say BAN BIKES in BRC! They lead to trouble Let's clean this city up.
christo
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 11:41 am

Postby PJ » Sat Sep 13, 2003 8:55 am

christo wrote:...I'm serious - I HATE BIKES AT BURNING MAN! They are NOT good for your health compared to jogging. Any burner can run anywhere they need to go and get an invigorating workout for free...I say BAN BIKES in BRC!


The opposite is true in my case. My knees can't handle running even a quarter-mile. But I can bike all day long, hard, for a week without any problems then or afterward. Interestingly, weight lifting doesn't hurt 'em. I'm not sure what it is about running but they can't take it at all, no matter what the surface is.
User avatar
PJ
 
Posts: 859
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 4:00 pm
Location: Colorado, The Other Rectangular State

Postby christo » Sat Sep 13, 2003 9:01 am

PJ, I talked to your doctor this morning,

No worries, he said he would vouch for your use of a disability bicycle or a motorized scooter next year. You'll just need to paint the handlebars blue so that all the rangers know your a gimp.

(Ah, If you go motorized please get an electric scooter - I hate those noisy gas ones.)
christo
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 11:41 am

Postby PJ » Sat Sep 13, 2003 9:24 am

Image
User avatar
PJ
 
Posts: 859
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 4:00 pm
Location: Colorado, The Other Rectangular State

That's what I'm saying!

Postby Ben » Sat Sep 13, 2003 11:48 am

Yo! and I want to take what you are saying and extend it to people. People walking on the Playa are dangerous. You never know where they are going. They are liable to walk or bump into you. You might see some yahoo sight seeing, or some funky ass "nekid" freeko. I find this really offensive, don't you?! It may even be possible that someone might come up and embrace you! Yeeuck!! So let's get people off the Playa. We should fence it off and place the "art" along the fence line to be viewed by live video feed in the comfort of our own homes...Legislation by all means is the way to go, Yeah!
"The life so short, the craft so long to learn."
User avatar
Ben
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 3:08 pm
Location: San Francisco

Postby clandyone » Sat Sep 13, 2003 1:41 pm

Tristan wrote:Very funny...

But bicycles are good for your health. They are a good physical excercice recommended by your doctor, and they save time compared to walking (which is also good and more relaxing).

Motorized scooters are not a good source of exercice!

Are you kidding? To ban or not to ban based on whether something enables us to get our recommended daily exercise?! I'm a complete bleeding-heart pinko, and that suggestion is too meddlesome even for me. That's saying a LOT.

Edit: I am annoyed by motorized scooters. I am also annoyed by WHUMP WHUMP WHUMP house music, noisy generators, and men wearing shirts with no pants. However, I do not have the right to not be annoyed. Everything is annoying to someone, and legislating, as it were, to keep people from being annoyed is a damn slippery slope.

As for the $300 generator tax, it's a terrible idea. It'd be impossible to enforce, for one, and would ghettoize participants who couldn't afford the three bills. There's already a disparity between the haves and the have-nots at Burning Man. Why make it worse?
User avatar
clandyone
 
Posts: 178
Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2003 6:13 pm
Location: Oakland, CA

Postby Halo Joe » Sat Sep 13, 2003 2:00 pm

clandyone wrote:... would ghettoize participants...


Don't type that too loudly ... some of the kids might think it'd be cool to be ghettoized. Case in point: Yesterday, some dork I work with came into the office wearing flip-flops, raggedy jeans, an old Polo shirt and ... a trucker's ball cap. He looked ridiculous, because he is always trying to jump ion the latest pseudo-fad to come down the pike. These young'uns today will grab ANY trend in the hope of being artificially cool.

(Oh, and I don't care how "hot" Ashton Kutcher is. He STILL looks stupid with a grandpa cap on his damn head. Case closed.)
You were burning long before you stepped into this fire. -- EB
Halo Joe
 
Posts: 106
Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2003 8:27 pm
Location: The Great American South

Postby pollinator » Sat Sep 13, 2003 11:11 pm

:roll: I agree if there are going to be scooters they should be art scooters, I also agree that bikes are quieter and much mere concious way to travel. One note about noisy generators, Yes! charge more money for generator use. Although how could thaty be regulated? My point is that a Huge motorhome came and set up camp mext to me and my 2 freind in our humble tents and proceeded to use it almos 24-7 blasting almost right next to my head. I didn't want to but I began to develop genuine hatred for my neighbors who I refered to as "noisy generator " camp.
pollinator
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 6:09 pm
Location: Hawaii

Art cars, scooters and moving buildings

Postby foo » Mon Sep 15, 2003 4:25 pm

I think it is very simple...if it has a motor (gas or electric...big or small) it must be heavily decorated/modified AND SAFE...period. I do not care if a person has a valid medical reason or that he/she is an "Org member" or DPW, etc...I think that some people are simply being lazy and dangerous let alone showing little respect to others that worked very hard to provide artistic value to our city. I mean if you can not spend the time to fix it up, do not bother bringing it.
After six years driving a scooter (X-Honda elite-80 now dual mushrooms), and building one of those middle-weight "boats", I have many great ideas in art car "playafication", BUT it seems to me that the first, real problem is not if it is "art" or well lit, but enforcement. With over 550 registered art cars out there this year, how can BM control (read: enforce) there own laws? I personnaly know several people that did not even bother with the DMV and drove anyway. Overall, the art cars have become the biggest single issue at BM, (especially after this years accidents). I look forward to tougher requirements ,but not just in color/lights/fuzzy/feely etc, but in safety... (especially with regards to those multi-level, multi-wheeled, multi-platformed mosters).
P.S. As far as the generator issue...go to your nearest Honda dealer and forget about it...they are simply BAD ASS.
FOO
foo
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2003 3:10 pm

Re: Art cars, scooters and moving buildings

Postby TestesInSac » Mon Sep 15, 2003 4:29 pm

foo wrote:P.S. As far as the generator issue...go to your nearest Honda dealer and forget about it...they are simply BAD ASS.
FOO


Yamaha EF1000i. A direct criteria match for Honda (57db, 1000W, 3hours/tank, etc), and less expensive.
I am my own sock puppet.
User avatar
TestesInSac
 
Posts: 451
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 8:04 pm

smoke if you have then

Postby unjonharley » Mon Sep 15, 2003 7:38 pm

Bikes run about 12mpr at top speed. I don't care about the damn scooter If they didn't have run at full speed. Crossing in front of me at intersections with out so much as glance.

My camp had two disabled tranports One I spent 100 hour tranforming it into a theme at cart. Checked in with DMV and was acepted. The other we just added some flowers etc. It too was acepted by DMV. Not as an art car but for what is, A disable persons transport. They have a sticker for that. Take your house music and shove it
I'm the contraptioneer your mother warned you about.
User avatar
unjonharley
 
Posts: 10006
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2003 11:05 am
Location: Salem Or.

Postby twist » Mon Sep 15, 2003 8:50 pm

Halo Joe wrote:
clandyone wrote:... would ghettoize participants...


Don't type that too loudly ... some of the kids might think it'd be cool to be ghettoized. Case in point: Yesterday, some dork I work with came into the office wearing flip-flops, raggedy jeans, an old Polo shirt and ... a trucker's ball cap. He looked ridiculous, because he is always trying to jump ion the latest pseudo-fad to come down the pike.


That trucker hat thing was over as soon as it started. Just like the return of the mullet or whatever. Just a bunch of bored kids in cities who are trying to be ironic and don't have a freakin' clue.
twist
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2003 10:48 am

Postby nymphgonebad » Mon Sep 15, 2003 8:54 pm

Tristan wrote:Except for people who have a medical condition (broken limb etc), I see no excuse for using a motorized scooter (even electrical), rather than a bicycle.


what about those of us who are responsible for getting massive amounts of ice to our camps for food or bar services?
User avatar
nymphgonebad
 
Posts: 583
Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2003 4:05 am
Location: little forest

Postby blyslv » Mon Sep 15, 2003 9:23 pm

We all bring force multipliers to the playa that let us impose sensory input onto others. Perhaps it's music, perhaps explosives, maybe it's internal combustion. If you are going to bring a force multiplier to BRC it would be nice if it enhanced more peoples' sensory expience rather then less. So if you are doing a large scale techno dance club, there will be people dancing and grooving. There will also be some people who hate techno. But on balance you are creating something that at least some people will be attracted to.

Now if you bring an unadorned internal combustion engine to the playa, this force multiplier will impose sensory input in the form of noise and exhaust smells on other people. What is BRC getting in return? Can you look at your engine and say that it goes beyond providing you own personal comfort? If you are running a diesal generator that is loud and audible from more than a few yards simply to have otter pops and air conditioning, without doing something to bring other wonderful sensory input than you are just a leach.

Can you get around without a scooter, but choose to use one simply because it is more fun? What balances your impostion of unwanted and unpleasant sensory input with the creation of sensory input that is more pleasing?

Luckily I don't go to BRC for the peace and quiet, but it would be nice to see more respect for people's aural environment.
Fight for the fifth freedom!
blyslv
 
Posts: 1562
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 2:22 pm
Location: Fanta Se NM

Postby Lydia Love » Mon Sep 15, 2003 9:53 pm

simply to have otter pops


Unless it's *alot* of otter pops. Bringing enough to share helps mitigate the generator noise.
It's all about the squirrels.
User avatar
Lydia Love
 
Posts: 1569
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2003 8:01 pm
Location: Seattle

Postby Kinetic » Mon Sep 15, 2003 9:59 pm

PJ wrote:Image


Now I know who stole my trolling motor off my kayak. I want that back!
Kinetic
 

Postby actiongrl » Wed Sep 17, 2003 8:42 pm

Oh dear.

You can take my electric scooter - which I bought for the playa because it doesn't make a sound and doesn't kick up a speck of dust, and which I plan to but didn't have the time or finances to decorate (beyond the fact that it carried my playafied self, which I suppose means it was a mixed-medium art piece, huh?) this year - when you pry it out of my cold, dead hands.

Bikes can go just as fast, but we're all being trusted to keep the speed limit. And I do less than 5 MPH on the scooter most of the time because you have to watch out for piles of dust and ruts, which will send you ass over ears in a split second.

That said, I do want to decorate it, even though it proved useless for me to ride while working due to its limitations in cargo and passenger transport. And I will.

Gas scooters have their own ring in heck as far as I'm concerned, but that's nothing I wouldn't say about some kinds of music, and people who yell, "WOoOOooOoO!" while standing around with a beer on the back of some art car.

But come on, banning, silent, electric scooters? One barely notices my scooter beneath me as I'm riding it. It's no more unattractive than any undecorated bicycle, and a bicycle can go just as fast and cause just as much or more damage.

One opinion on the matter...flame away.
actiongrl
 
Posts: 637
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2003 12:22 pm

Postby Kinetic » Wed Sep 17, 2003 8:57 pm

actiongrl wrote:
But come on, banning, silent, electric scooters? One barely notices my scooter beneath me as I'm riding it. It's no more unattractive than any undecorated bicycle, and a bicycle can go just as fast and cause just as much or more damage.

One opinion on the matter...flame away.


No flames here AG, just total support. I was going to buy a gas scooter but I like the stealth aspect of the electric ones. I'm going to try and bring one for 04. Decked out with tons of Cool Neon's finest to make it look good.

And considering all you do out there from what I've heard....keep the scooter.
Kinetic
 

Postby Ben » Thu Sep 18, 2003 10:54 am

You Go!
"The life so short, the craft so long to learn."
User avatar
Ben
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 3:08 pm
Location: San Francisco

Postby Tiara » Thu Sep 18, 2003 11:33 am

>what about those of us who are responsible for getting massive amounts of ice to our camps for food or bar services?

I found that by pulling a simple plastic wagon (readily available from toy stores or discount/department stores) I could haul 20+ bags of ice without a problem.
User avatar
Tiara
 
Posts: 377
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2003 2:07 pm
Location: Richmond CA

Ban them!!

Postby Bart » Thu Sep 18, 2003 7:03 pm

Yes ... the scooters should be banned. Most of them have wide tires that kick up a lot of dust.

Don't complain - there isn't anywhere that you need to get to faster than the rest of us ...

The only cool scooter I saw was the guy driving a Segway dolled up to look like a horseless roman chariot ... whoever you are, guy, hats off to you.
User avatar
Bart
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2003 6:12 pm

Postby TestesInSac » Thu Sep 18, 2003 7:43 pm

1/(|[set of rules]|)=|[freedom]|
I am my own sock puppet.
User avatar
TestesInSac
 
Posts: 451
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 8:04 pm

Postby Booker » Fri Sep 19, 2003 7:28 am

it carried my playafied self, which I suppose means it was a mixed-medium art piece, huh?) . . . which will send you ass over ears in a split second


Performance art?
Booker
 
Posts: 216
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2003 6:46 pm

Re: Ban them!!

Postby christo » Fri Sep 19, 2003 6:39 pm

Bart wrote:Yes ... the scooters should be banned. Most of them have wide tires that kick up a lot of dust.

Don't complain - there isn't anywhere that you need to get to faster than the rest of us ...

The only cool scooter I saw was the guy driving a Segway dolled up to look like a horseless roman chariot ... whoever you are, guy, hats off to you.


YES Sir, thank you, and I say ban bicycles, and all scooters except two wheel, non-tandem types decorated as horseless chariots!

Are you with me on this?

Christo
christo
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 11:41 am

Postby blarghstint » Fri Sep 19, 2003 7:07 pm

ok. the great thing about BM is that you are free to make ANYTHING into art. So instead of debating over these things, we should be coming up with themes and camps etc on how to discourage or perhaps make annoying scooter riders (some do obey speed limits etc) into art. If it aint decorated, pull 'em over and give 'em a ticket. we did this year. it was fun, and might make some people think...if nothing else, it makes them stop for awhile... :wink:
"Light will guide your path
Hearts following happiness
Don't trip on the cord."
User avatar
blarghstint
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2003 4:48 pm
Location: around where i am

Postby Kinetic » Fri Sep 19, 2003 10:55 pm

Ban this, ban that.
Rules here, rules there.
Tickets for this, tickets for that.

What the hell is this? NYC? I thought I was 2800 miles WEST of that place!
Kinetic
 

Dirty Outlaw - all of us

Postby christo » Sat Sep 20, 2003 8:56 pm

Kinetic wrote:Ban this, ban that.
Rules here, rules there.
Tickets for this, tickets for that.

What the hell is this? NYC? I thought I was 2800 miles WEST of that place!


FYI - Attydog has posted here. He also risk his Segway to the desert to share it with the good citizens of BRC. and made this rad huge wheel for our amusement.

Anyway your should know that this dude risk ARREST every day as he uses his Segway for commuting in S.F. because some bozos on the S.F. City council BANNED these things from sidewalks even before they ever saw one. Now as the ONLY large city in America to do so they have made S.F. look like major league assholes as the Segway is being embraced by New York, Chicago, Dallas, Houston, Philidelphia, Oklahoma City, Phoenix and everywhere else as having the real potential to reduce intercity car trips and congestion. But in S.F. Attydog is a criminal.

Sort of like you smoking a doobie at Burning Man.

The moral - When banning shit, be careful about what you wish for.
Christo
christo
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 11:41 am

Postby Kinetic » Sat Sep 20, 2003 9:26 pm

I thought S.F. was pretty progressive...and then I see the Segway restrictions. I still love the city though, even though I'd likely end up in Sausalito if I moved out there.

Of course since I'm not from there I bet I picked the most expensive place to live too....but being close to Mt. Tam, the GGB, and all would make it worth considering....
Kinetic
 

Postby Bob » Sat Sep 20, 2003 11:00 pm

The Segway was banned by the San Francisco Board of Supervisors because the streets and sidewalks are too narrow to safely accomodate them.

And because only hippies ride them.
Amazing desert structures & stuff: http://sites.google.com/site/potatotrap/

"Let us say I suggest you may be human." -- Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam
User avatar
Bob
 
Posts: 6762
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 10:00 am
Location: San Francisco
Burning Since: 1986
Camp Name: Royaneh

Postby christo » Sat Sep 20, 2003 11:22 pm

Bob wrote:The Segway was banned by the San Francisco Board of Supervisors because the streets and sidewalks are too narrow to safely accomodate them. .


Yeah, a standard myth that applies well to toddlers and teenagers (which should be banned in S.F.) but not even close to being real for a Segway. Fact - the Seg footprint is the same as a humans. The turning radius is same as a humans, etc, etc...

Now cars are a pain for the city and should be banned. Don't get me started!

Christo
christo
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 11:41 am

PreviousNext

Return to Politics & Philosophy

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests