Need tips building a 30 ft wooden octogon

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Re: Need tips building a 30 ft wooden octogon

Postby Snow » Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:48 pm

In mentioning the metal, I am reminding you to bring a magnetic rake. It makes life much easier when you want to get the heck out of dodge.

The internal guying is simply a cable that runs from the top of the structure to a anchor in the ground (with a turnbuckle). Basically it holds the structure straight into the ground, and thus from tipping over due to high wind (or burner load). I'll see if I have a picture from one of our projects. It does the same job as external guying but is hidden safe away inside. For an octagon it be simplist to use 4, one in every other corner. The anchors and cables are in the corners, tucked out of the way, and do away with the need for external wires and associated fences to protect the anchors. Yes they do have a greater vertical force applied to the anchor than would be the case for a vertical anchor, thus why I brought up using 6" augers and having them machined in (although its really the getting out where the hard work is, doesn't matter how they get there and in the ground, just trying to save ya some work and hauling in and out). An engineer (or someone of the like) should be able to help you with the calcs for cable and anchor size based on your dimensions. I don't have time right now, but perhaps later, heck I don't even have time to be writing this really. Design at least for 75 MPH winds and assume a soil bearing capacity (and auger pullout) of 2000 psf (pretty conservative estimates from my experience). If your layers were connected well enough together you *may* be able to get away with pins (rebar or form stakes) in the base. But experience tells me the powers that be will like to see guying, so the safe bet is to shoot for that.

Don't forget the night lighting either, hate for a fire breathing dragon to run over your dick! (maybe you addressed that on your page, I haven't looked)

well the last part laura was getting at your plan for lifting your levels into place. (I think). The other part was more about cross bracing, normally sheer panels are used (plywood) now days, but X configuration on each "wall" will keep it from racking.
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Re: Need tips building a 30 ft wooden octogon

Postby Froves » Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:40 am

magnetic rake, thank you! you are the 50th person to tell me this!!! it must be important!!! so do the wires go from one corner straight down to the earth in the same corner? do they cross to the opposite side? It sounds like this may be an advanced technique, Pins however sounds ideal! Im not sure what to expect yet, once i get this 2nd module stacked up i will start to figure out what route i will take, The thing will be erected completely on the concrete here in dallas, if it stands well and survives a storm i bet i could use pins. I will get help though to make absolutely sure. Thanks so much man! Whenever you find time i would love to hear more! Also, internal- it pulls straight down from the top, external, it pulls on the sides, which setup would be safest for climbing participants if the thing were to fall, break, or tip? im guessing the external would be better... there may or may not be climbing access on the inside but if time allows i may have the option to climb up thru the inside as well. How do the fences have to be set up?? can i just light the guys with EL wire and then put up a small 9ft circular fence around where it goes into the earth?does anyone have pics? ill look thru a lot of pics tonight. Im going outa town 2m and will be asking a vet burner a SHITLOAD of question lol. Sunday will be ball build number 2!!!!
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Re: Need tips building a 30 ft wooden octogon

Postby Froves » Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:45 am

Snow wrote:who wants to see a giant phallus with wire rigging viagra holding it up.



Your right! it would look stupid! i somehow missed this part in your last post! Internal it is! or pins! Im going to get into sketchup again tonight and i will make a cutaway so i can ask better questions about what needs to be done, i could drive the anchors in before i place the bottom on so i can use the pipe to twist em, then build around the anchors.
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Re: Need tips building a 30 ft wooden octogon

Postby Bob » Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:58 pm

Snow wrote:Note Bob YOU didn't install or raise any of that, you just used slave labor as your machine....


I was busy building platforms and delivering materials, as I recall. Had a crew of about eight volunteers doing the work of four, and the DPW metal shop that year was still struggling with fabricating a custom drive bit for a Bobcat or tractor PTO. The crew also drove car axles shafts a foot behind each anchor, wired off to the anchor eye w/ barbless wire, to eliminate possible flexing. The "artist" was needlessly paranoid about the playa acting like a trampoline under his laser & target towers, and we really could have done without the massive 6x8 foot platforms and the axle shafts, but it kept us busy, and having the metal shop fabricate 8" hinges with 3/4" pins out of junkyard scrap was entertaining.

Anyhow, I don't see how the internal "guying" you're visualizing requires a cable all the way up to the top. If each level has adequate shear strength and is well-attached to the next, eg similar to a multi-story stud frame building, you'd attach anchors to posts close to the base, similar to seismic tiedowns in a residential house foundation. Anchors could be placed closely either inside or outside the wall of the bottom section, provided they're attached to wall framing that distributes the loads. Get them drilled close enough to the outside wall and they shouldn't be a tripping hazard or an aesthetic problem.

As a wild guess, you'd need four or five times the hold-down force for "internal" anchors, compared to conventional guy-lines. Figure 4-inch helical ground anchors can take about a half ton, and 6-inch anchors about a ton max (ultimate).

In addition to accounting for uplift/toppling, you'll want to pin the structure in place to prevent sideways translation. Rebar or 3/4" concrete form stakes every few feet around the perimeter, eg drilled through the bottom plate of the stud wall, are conventional.

Considered a penis-shaped balloon? More bangs for the buck, IMO.
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Re: Need tips building a 30 ft wooden octogon

Postby Froves » Wed Nov 21, 2012 7:47 pm

ok hold on,. lemme sketch up!
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Re: Need tips building a 30 ft wooden octogon

Postby FIGJAM » Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:04 pm

Froves cock is sooooooo big...............










they had to build Florida to keep the tip from getting wet when he went to bed in Texas!!!!!!! 8)
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Re: Need tips building a 30 ft wooden octogon

Postby Froves » Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:15 pm

the sketch is small, Pretty mucxh i cant figure out where yall mean to run the wires? are you saying run a wire from the 6 ft mark to the ground on the inside across from that mark? run one from the 4 ft mark to the outside? from top to bottom, i keep hearing mixed things. Hopefully i will not need to guy it at all. but im still pretty far away from even knowing.

lol florida!!!!

i will pin it regardless, this sounds like a good idea. thank you!!!

Yall, i am going to make up a bunch of shirts for all of you to come get once yall arrive on the desert!!! haha the help im getting on here is insane compared to facebook groups and regional contacts lol.You guys are rocking my world!!!! THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!! i got a shitload of wood today too!!!!!
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Re: Need tips building a 30 ft wooden octogon

Postby Snow » Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:34 pm

Bob wrote:Anyhow, I don't see how the internal "guying" you're visualizing requires a cable all the way up to the top. If each level has adequate shear strength and is well-attached to the next, eg similar to a multi-story stud frame building, you'd attach anchors to posts close to the base, similar to seismic tiedowns in a residential house foundation. Anchors could be placed closely either inside or outside the wall of the bottom section, provided they're attached to wall framing that distributes the loads. Get them drilled close enough to the outside wall and they shouldn't be a tripping hazard or an aesthetic problem.

As a wild guess, you'd need four or five times the hold-down force for "internal" anchors, compared to conventional guy-lines. Figure 4-inch helical ground anchors can take about a half ton, and 6-inch anchors about a ton max (ultimate).

In addition to accounting for uplift/toppling, you'll want to pin the structure in place to prevent sideways translation. Rebar or 3/4" concrete form stakes every few feet around the perimeter, eg drilled through the bottom plate of the stud wall, are conventional.
All this is pretty much spot on for the numbers/concepts. the exact hold down force is dependent on the structure dimensions/shape, but it is definitely more than for external guying.

Yes as I mentioned, in the real world the cables don't need to go to the top IF the structure is well connected together. But sometimes what you need to pass inspection easiest has nothing to do with reality haha. Substantial pinning against horizontal forces isn't necessary with the full internal guying, unless the structure is large (this year I made hundreds of 5/8" rebar candycane pins for our buildings AND we had internal guying)

And the internal guying goes straight down from the top, right along the walls in the corners (not crossing like you're showing). Although what you are showing is stronger, it eats up interior space, which I guess isn't a problem if no one is going in there. Internal vs external, both are safe, just a bit different. As always, there are many ways to skin and dry a cat.

more random tips: never forget the fluffers!

did I ask about lighting this at night? I don't remember
Last edited by Snow on Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Need tips building a 30 ft wooden octogon

Postby Snow » Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:36 pm

Froves wrote: i got a shitload of wood today too!!!!!
excited are we? :shock:
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Re: Need tips building a 30 ft wooden octogon

Postby Froves » Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:04 pm

awesome yall!!! makes sense now!!! haha its amazing that yall can teach so well that in just a couple of dsays i can not only grasp but fully understand something that was brand new to me. haha im a little drunk but thank you thank you!!!! im excited as fuck!!!!!
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Re: Need tips building a 30 ft wooden octogon

Postby Froves » Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:06 pm

Snow, bob, figjam, ranger magnum, i appreciate you guys alot!!!!!
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Re: Need tips building a 30 ft wooden octogon

Postby laura* » Thu Nov 22, 2012 1:09 am

Froves wrote:Laura im not quite sure what you mean. i kind of understand, do you mean use a planer to make notches so it kinda jigsaws over the walls?


Imagine you are building a wall of a house. There are multiple vertical studs, and you want a floor to ceiling diagonal brace. You start by nailing the studs to the top and bottom plates. Next you lay the 1x4 across the wall and mark where it will go. Now you set your circular saw to a depth of 3/4 inch and cut each stud at the layout marks. Actually, you'd make a whole bunch of close together cuts between each pair of layout marks. Then you'd chisel out the remaining wood, creating notches in each 2x4 for the 1x4. At each notch, the studs are reduced from 3 1/2 inches wide to just 2 3/4, but that's still OK. Once you nail in the 1x4, the wall is braced, still just 3 1/2 inches thick, and all the bracing nails get loaded in shear.

As someone mentioned above, I do suggest you go to a library and peruse a book on (wooden) home framing. You are basically building the equivalent of a three story house. There is no need to reinvent the wheel.


Here's a different way to realize your idea: For the tower, build a square structure that consists of two 14 to 16 foot tall "lifts". At intervals, attach round hoops to the square structure. Then wrap the whole tower in some sort of fabric or tarp. Perhaps a canvas tarp, or better yet, the mesh "fabric" that's sometimes used for shade structures. This would be much lighter, easier to (no pun intended) erect, and better represent your, ahem, intent. The mesh fabric would also reduce the wind load you need to handle, as well as letting light reach the interior.
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Re: Need tips building a 30 ft wooden octogon

Postby Snow » Thu Nov 22, 2012 9:48 am

Plus shade cloth comes in BLACK :wink:
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Re: Need tips building a 30 ft wooden octogon

Postby Froves » Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:32 pm

okay i get it now!!! Thank you. I really like your box idea but I am sticking to the plans that i already have. If i learned anything this year it was not to let people sway the way you want to do something. I asked an artist at our North texas regional burn about his structure and how it was done and he said to me.... "the best advice i can give you is to do it the way YOU want, Dont listen to people when they try to go changing your plans. Do it the way YOU want!! " and im going to do just that!!!! The skin will be fence slats and its going to have a climbing wall on the outside, octagon boxes, and private rooms for special people
This train already left!!!!! toot toot!

I will keep your idea in mind if mine comes crashing down into a splintery mess!!!! (but it wont)

Fence slats will look better burning too. it will actually look like a huge burning penis, if it was cloth there would be no climbing wall and it would look like two big burning cubes after the fabric went up in 10 seconds, (if said fabric was even a burnable material)

much love, Ooohh!!!! my buddy showed me how to make a video in sketch up!!! heres the link, join our group!!!! https://www.facebook.com/groups/507851795900953/
when is a good time to start looking for burn perimeter friends>?, it sounds like i need 25 people!!!! i dont even know 25 people that go to BM!!!!!! I can promise a good slathering of booze and a TTLL 2012 shirt!!!! (penis shirt).!!!! lol i need 50 people!!!! :oops: :? :!:

There will be a huuugeee black dildo somewhere on it, it might go "yyeeeeeaaaaaa" really low pitched when pulled on. :0
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Re: Need tips building a 30 ft wooden octogon

Postby Froves » Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:32 am

We are LIVE!!!!

www.throbbingtower.com
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Re: Need tips building a 30 ft wooden octogon

Postby Humin » Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:08 am

Looks fucking amazing, I'm lurking this project. I laughed out loud when I read the interactivity page; "the water features, fire, extra lights, and some sex sounds will be triggered by this wall of dildos". The climbing wall seems unsafe; maybe I'm looking at it wrong.
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Re: Need tips building a 30 ft wooden octogon

Postby maladroit » Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:19 pm

BAAL-Mart had a giant penis structure this year, I believe it was made from standard scaffolding and a couple of geodesic domes.

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Re: Need tips building a 30 ft wooden octogon

Postby some seeing eye » Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:51 pm

You might reach out to the temple crew for on playa construction tips. Pneumatic nailers would be good for your siding. Wheeled scaffolding would be good for removing your climbing holds prior to burn.
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Re: Need tips building a 30 ft wooden octogon

Postby Froves » Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:38 pm

Thank you Humin!!! And yes the climbing wall is potentially fatal! Once we start going up past the 12 ft mark we will decide what the appropriate action should be. If there is a wall it will be safe. I promise!

ballmart is insane! I never knew it was so tall! hopefully we can become the 2nd tallest penis built on the playa! :wink:

SomeSeeingEye-thank you! the holds will be easily detached if needed with a big wrench, we can start at the top and just climb down and take them off. however they WILL be made of wood so we wont even need to take em down for the burn! We are planning to use as few outside resources as possible so that the machines and things can be put to better use on the big awesome structures. We are a young crew and we think we can get er done the old fashioned way!!! Im learning more and more each day and by the time august rolls around i think we will be looking pretty good out there! thank you all! check the website for progress and stuff! drop us a line any time!!!!!
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Re: Need tips building a 30 ft wooden octogon

Postby Froves » Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:04 pm

is there any way to get a new title/headline on here. And mods lurking at this hour?
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Re: building a 30 ft wooden PENIS Need a tip

Postby EspressoDude » Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:43 pm

Search around on flickr or other photo sharing sites for photos of Anubis construction from 2012. Anubis was about 50 ft high and fairly slender. It was a reasonably rigid member and also had 3 or 4 two inch wide load binder straps as guy wires. The builders had a bunch of drawings on their website about construction details that may help you.

edit to add: Look for pictures of the Portland 2012 Core project. It used a similar construction technique to what you are planning.
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Re: Need tips building a 30 ft wooden octogon

Postby gyre » Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:21 am

Don't use treated fence slats.

If you're trying to get a feel for construction physics, make some models of cardboard or paper and play with them, twist them, crush them, whatever.

There was an old house here, 1900 or earlier, that turned out to have structural cables run through the walls.
They had great difficulty knocking it down.
It had Tiffany windows.
Napoleon Hill's house.
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Re: Need tips building a 30 ft wooden octogon

Postby Froves » Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:08 pm

okay yall, i hit my first bump! YAY!!! i think the stuff im using for the shear? Sheath? shearing? is treated wood, im looking on google and cant really find anything out, pretty sure its treated but just making sure. :)
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Re: Need tips building a 30 ft wooden octogon

Postby Froves » Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:09 pm

and yes i know that treated means no. lol our 2nd teste will be up soon! keep ur eyes peeled!
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Re: Need tips building a 30 ft wooden octogon

Postby gyre » Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:55 pm

Sheathing?

That chipboard is not treated.
It does have adhesives and binders.
Check with the llc about regulated toxins for burning.
They can tell you.
It won't have preservatives though.
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Re: Need tips building a 30 ft wooden octogon

Postby theCryptofishist » Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:01 pm

That's called particle board, and yeah, there's something that makes it stick together. It also doesn't have a lot of integrity--there aren't fibers going for long ways.
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Re: Need tips building a 30 ft wooden octogon

Postby gyre » Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:11 pm

The technical name is waferboard, though most call it chipboard.

Particle board looks like mdf and is made of sawdust.
None are treated, as fencing is.
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Re: Need tips building a 30 ft wooden octogon

Postby trilobyte » Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:44 pm

Yeah, it's treated (though not like, say, pressure-treated lumber). That engineered wood is basically little shredded pieces of wood, bonded with adhesives in a number of layers.
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Re: Need tips building a 30 ft wooden octogon

Postby ygmir » Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:53 pm

gyre wrote:The technical name is waferboard, though most call it chipboard.

Particle board looks like mdf and is made of sawdust.
None are treated, as fencing is.

I thought the name was OSB: Oriented Strand Board
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Re: Need tips building a 30 ft wooden octogon

Postby gyre » Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:10 pm

I've seen osb too.
Home depot told me they purchase it under the name waferboard.

It's all crap.
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