Serial Rapist on the playa

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Re: Serial Rapist on the playa

Postby omgrey » Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:50 am

gyre wrote:I was quite sincere.

False allegations are very common with all types of crime.
I'm not sure why they wouldn't happen with rape too.
I have someone on tape threatening to falsely accuse me of rape, and not someone I have any social relationship with at all.
People have all kinds of issues.


Thank you for your sincerity.

They do happen, but they just don't happen very often. I'd be very interested in hearing the details about your accusation. PM me.
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Re: Serial Rapist on the playa

Postby omgrey » Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:56 am

kittyrodriguez wrote:I think too much blame is being thrown around here...
Finally, as a community, we need protect each other and ourselves. We are a family.

I hope the perp is caught and faces justice, and I hope that the young victim can move on with her life.


I agree with you, Kitty. Too much blame. People don't know how to respond to such a disgusting violation, so they look for someone to blame. Unfortunately, far too often, it is the victim. But you are absolutely right, the blame lies with the rapist. 100%.

We do need to protect each other and ourselves as a community. In my limited experience, *this* burner community is excellent at that, and we're just getting better. I found more support on the playa from friends and strangers alike when it came to this than I have from my (now former) community back in Austin. Let's continue to support each other and learn how to do so even better.
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Re: Serial Rapist on the playa

Postby salope » Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:10 am

gyre wrote:False allegations are very common with all types of crime.
I'm not sure why they wouldn't happen with rape too.


Does it happen? Sure.
Is it "very common" ? Rapists and rape apologists would sure like you to think so.

There is no other type of crime where accusers are comparably shamed, doubted and humiliated.

If you report a robbery to the police, do they question your sobriety or your outfit? Do they often doubt you or dismiss your claims all together?
If you are called as a witness at trial, is your entire sexual/moral history examined in excruciating detail? Are you quite often assumed to be lying?
Do people assume you were robbed through some moral failing of your own, or blame your actions in getting robbed?

The costs of allegation are quite different with rape.
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Re: Serial Rapist on the playa

Postby veleda » Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:54 am

I heard of another girl at a camp next door that woke up naked on the playa with no memory of what had happened not having done any personal drugs on the playa that night.. who must have been slipped something in a drink at a bar.

I think it is becoming more and more of an issue as more and more people hear of the burn.. what advocacy is being one to get the rape kits to the playa? is there a chief person in charge of this type of thing at the org? I used to be a rape crisis counselor in the bay area.. it seems like this should be able to be addressed. maybe a petition or other such activist pressure on the org might make a difference..
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Re: Serial Rapist on the playa

Postby theCryptofishist » Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:38 am

I think that there are things we can do immediately and on-playa next year that would actually help, instead of getting hung-up on the thorny issue of rape kits.
Anyone is welcome to work with B.E.D. and work to educate participants.
Would anyone here be willing to drop their burn and drive a rape victim to Reno where a proper rape examination can be made? And drive back with her/him, of course. Maybe including a seat for an ESD crisis councillor.
Are we, as a group, ready to rally around this young woman, offer support emotional and financial? Sit with her in a court room? Drive her up? give her a place to stay? I'd prefer that she press charges, so my remarks are kind of biased that way, but I'm sure she can use the support either way.
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Maybe she'd rather not identify herself, of course. Maybe the best we can do is for her mother. I'd like to do more, but I don't want to steam roll her either.
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Re: Serial Rapist on the playa

Postby scott_k » Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:38 am

omgrey wrote:
(...)

Remember, as a culture, we think that "actual rapists" go to jail. They don't. That's reality. This is not about prosecuting an "innocent" man; this is about protecting women from violence. So, tell me, is it worth someone's reputation to be slightly (and I mean slightly) tarnished to save 1600 women a day from being raped? Give victims a place to speak out and name their attackers, and there will be so far fewer attacks. Where is the accountability for these monsters? To be able to call out rapists by name would truly be a Nightmare Scenario.

You've all read what this man did to Rachel's daughter, and, it seems, to others. Why would anyone, let alone three different women, make that up? This man will likely never be found, although I hope he is, and he will be raping again. This. is. why. you believe the victim.

(...)



Correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears that you are saying that you feel that anyone who considers them self to be a rape victim is entitled to publicly naming their alleged attacker without due process. As another man who has been threatened of being falsely accused of rape (I have pages of emails and text messages stating the perpetrator's intentions), I am disgusted that you think it is acceptable to tarnish any man or woman's reputation without due process. Such accusations could be career-ending for an individual, regardless of if they are untrue and thrown out in court.

You yourself have said
omgrey wrote: as a culture, we think that "actual rapists" go to jail. They don't.
How are you going to change that by stripping people of their right to due process? I am in no way siding with the rapist, and I think it's absolutely awful that this has happened. However, If the victim desires to bring the rapist to justice, it is incumbent upon him/ her to take every opportunity to collect evidence. Due process is how we protect the rights of the innocent, and YES IT DOES MATTER.
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Re: Serial Rapist on the playa

Postby thirt33n » Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:45 am

trilobyte wrote:Here's your chance to prove it's a cop-out, thirt33n - bring out a rape kit camp next year. Show us all how easy it is and expose the cop-out.



not "my" event to be providing necessary and feasible health and safety services. I'm not the group who plans, builds, enforces, breaks down, records and makes money from this giant venture which is a city. I "only" drive 4 days round trip after months of planning, greet for many shifts, bring my art, smile, MOOP patrol, help where i can, pack up, and drive home.

...havent seen you face, Trilo, to face since maybe 2006 and i "love" you like a fellow citizen, still, your response to me is plain silly. If you don't understand that this is a situation that this city and ALL who build and protect and make money from it have dropped the ball on and should get their shit together then maybe you should recuse yourself from the discussion. A "normal" citizen like me does not have axcess to a mobile crime lab. I'm SURE you could name at least two organizations/agencies involved that do. ...if you say you can't then go ahead and keep your dusty fingers in your ears.

good day Trilobyte
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Re: Serial Rapist on the playa

Postby Nipple » Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:59 am

What he's saying, 13, is that no one gets anything by waiting for it to come to them, while telling the person that wants to help that he is "bullshit."

You want it: Make it happen... with your hands.

Which is more important to you, Greeter shifts, or rape kits?

I guess that's between you and your time budget.
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Re: Serial Rapist on the playa

Postby scott_k » Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:07 pm

thirt33n wrote:
trilobyte wrote:Here's your chance to prove it's a cop-out, thirt33n - bring out a rape kit camp next year. Show us all how easy it is and expose the cop-out.



not "my" event to be providing necessary and feasible health and safety services. I'm not the group who plans, builds, enforces, breaks down, records and makes money from this giant venture which is a city. I "only" drive 4 days round trip after months of planning, greet for many shifts, bring my art, smile, MOOP patrol, help where i can, pack up, and drive home.

...havent seen you face, Trilo, to face since maybe 2006 and i "love" you like a fellow citizen, still, your response to me is plain silly. If you don't understand that this is a situation that this city and ALL who build and protect and make money from it have dropped the ball on and should get their shit together then maybe you should recuse yourself from the discussion. A "normal" citizen like me does not have axcess to a mobile crime lab. I'm SURE you could name at least two organizations/agencies involved that do. ...if you say you can't then go ahead and keep your dusty fingers in your ears.

good day Trilobyte


With all due respect, getting a court of law to accept Playa Crime Lab "evidence" as legitimate evidence would be about as difficult as getting the Nevada Highway Patrol to accept your Department of Mutant Vehicles registration as a legitimate vehicle registration for driving on Highway 447.

You have to go to a State of Nevada DMV to get your vehicle registered for highway use. Likewise, you have go to the authorized facility in Reno for a rape kit examination.

And while Trilobyte's proposition that you bring a crime lab is more or less rhetorical, the fact of the matter is that any defense attorney would immediately throw out any "evidence" obtained at the Playa Crime Lab, since, after all, it was "collected in some trailer at that rave-orgy, Burning Man," (in the eyes of Defaultia and the court). [50 points to KittyRodriguez for stating it so effectively].
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Re: Serial Rapist on the playa

Postby thirt33n » Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:29 pm

again, skott k, for some reason you are most easily "heard" (by me at least) while others who throw the same, "if you think it should be there then make it happen yourself." are not...

this isn't greeter shifts. it's not art installations. it's standing behind your own. Just as i do not make ESD decisions or enforce local laws or jump up in a JOTS truck and "contribute", us "citizens" are not responsible for certain things like, for instance, what scott k mentioned, providing a safe shuttle to and from the hospital, and crimelab, for situations like these...it just seems to be part of the ethical responsibility of a running a community like this...
they can't say, "well, we don't feel like a fire truck is feasible, let's let the citizen volunteers take care of that one...if they can."

it's all my opinion, as i stated from the get go, and also i never meant to "blame" Joseph either...he was only saying what he had to say. he may have a big title but he's not "god".

so, in summation, sorry if i offended anyone. i still think "un feasible" is a cop-out. evidence is evidence.

but,...what do I know? (sure, nothing) :roll: :wink:

good day
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Re: Serial Rapist on the playa

Postby Nipple » Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:45 pm

thirt33n wrote:again, skott k, for some reason you are most easily "heard" (by me at least) while others who throw the same, "if you think it should be there then make it happen yourself." are not...


My point is this: Nothing is going to be resolved on this message board. It's far more interesting to run it down yourself and run into the roadblocks and either get around them, or not. I think you'll find that some people have run into roadblocks and are reporting their findings here, after they've done something.

You disagree. You feel they're missing something, or are wrong. Don't SAY, SHOW.

I disagree with you that citizens are not responsible. As a citizen, you are the PRIME PERSON RESPONSIBLE. You feel something is not being handled correctly: Handle it.

Or just type more, and wait. That, and a ticket will only get you a hug from a greeter.
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Re: Serial Rapist on the playa

Postby maladroit » Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:48 pm

Evidence collected against drug offenders at Burning Man certainly seems to have no problem remaining valid in Nevada courts.
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Re: Serial Rapist on the playa

Postby MacGlenver » Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:49 pm

Sounds like we've got 2 real options.

1) Get rape kits on the playa.
2) Get someone to Reno & back for a rape exam.

While #1 is ideal, sometimes the ideal solution is not always realistic (though it should be pursued, if it is).

To Crypto's suggestion, maybe we need to focus our energy on improving the realistic option #2. Reno is 2 hours away. That is not an unreasonable distance to travel. Perhaps there can be a designated BMORG vehicle for trips to Reno for emergency situations (there probably already is). Perhaps we could have 2 or 3 pilots that volunteer to be on call each day to fly people to Reno?

I think the real issue here is the rape -- not the impossibility of getting the test administered. This guy needs to be prosecuted.
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Re: Serial Rapist on the playa

Postby scott_k » Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:50 pm

I agree, bringing a crime lab to the playa seems to fall out of the participants' means of contributing to the event. However, it seems perfectly reasonable to accept that it's also out of BMORG's or county law enforcement's means as well. It's a legal/conceptual issue, not a logistical issue. If DNA is collected from the victim at the Playa Crime Lab, it is not likely to constitute evidence in court, regardless of the level of professionalism of the forensic nurses.

In all seriousness, Reno is not that far away. If this happened to one of my friends or family members, I'd leave the playa and drive them halfway across the world to get them to a crime lab. I'm not suggesting that this is a viable option for everyone. Each individual situation plays out differently and I have nothing but respect for the victim's decision to stay at Burning Man and try to enjoy herself.

That being said, it kind of sounds like we're grasping for straws at this point. Having a crime lab on the playa would not have prevented this from happening, nor is it likely to deter rapists from victimizing burners. Awareness is key, and I think the OP has done the community a favor by offering us this information and calling for other victims to come forward.

kittyrodriguez wrote:
The only immediate suggestion I have is to educate people on the availability of Mental Health assistance through ESD, and have good liaisons to assist those who do wish to travel to Reno to undergo an examination. The OP stated that the girl was possibly unwilling to go to Reno because of uncertainty on how she would return to her friends/relatives and belongings at the event. Perhaps if she had known that a caring mental health liaison would remain with her through the ordeal and would facilitate her easy return to the playa, she would have been more willing.

Finally, as a community, we need protect each other and ourselves. We are a family.



Sounds like the appropriate measures are already in place, right?
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Re: Serial Rapist on the playa

Postby MacGlenver » Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:53 pm

^ Period.
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Re: Serial Rapist on the playa

Postby omgrey » Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:29 pm

scott_k wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears that you are saying that you feel that anyone who considers them self to be a rape victim is entitled to publicly naming their alleged attacker without due process. As another man who has been threatened of being falsely accused of rape (I have pages of emails and text messages stating the perpetrator's intentions), I am disgusted that you think it is acceptable to tarnish any man or woman's reputation without due process. Such accusations could be career-ending for an individual, regardless of if they are untrue and thrown out in court.

You yourself have said
omgrey wrote: as a culture, we think that "actual rapists" go to jail. They don't.
How are you going to change that by stripping people of their right to due process? I am in no way siding with the rapist, and I think it's absolutely awful that this has happened. However, If the victim desires to bring the rapist to justice, it is incumbent upon him/ her to take every opportunity to collect evidence. Due process is how we protect the rights of the innocent, and YES IT DOES MATTER.


I'd be very interested in hearing the details of your threatened accusation. Why is she threatening you?

"Tarnishing" a reputation, that is, making things a little uncomfortable for an accused for awhile and perhaps having him/her answer to accusations publicly in their community, is an acceptable risk when *1600 women are raped every day* and *97% rapists walk free,* especially when rape survivors are shunned and shamed into silence.

Due process *isn't working* with this issue. There is "reasonable doubt" 97% of the time. And "reasonable doubt" is the accused rapist saying, "I thought it was consensual." I'm not going to write an essay on this board about how this is a cultural issue, as this thread is about Rachel's daughter and what we can do to help her, but I've written extensively about it on my blog. It's been written about all over the internet if you care to look. Read the post called "A Nightmare Scenario," and that's what I'm talking about. Read the posts I've linked to in previous comments.

A "tarnished" reputation is a risk I'm willing to take to stop thousands of women from having their lives ruined for years, if not forever. As far as a career-ender, I'd be really surprised unless it is a professor or teacher or another position of authority like that who is accused of hurting a student. In my experience, as I've previously stated, along with virtually *everything* I read about the issue, the victim isn't believed and the accused is embraced.

Due process is about convictions. Naming a rapist doesn't send them to prison. It doesn't even really hurt their reputation that much. There might be whispers, and people might watch a little more closely, and GOD FORBID, the accused might have to be careful about crossing boundaries and getting consent. Truly. A nightmare!

This isn't about prison or convictions.
This about protecting women and men from rape.
This is about making victims feel safe and believed and heard.
This is about giving them a voice.
This is about *1600 women raped every. single. day.*
This is about 97% of rapists walking free.

As far as the rights of the innocent? What about those 1600 women every day?
What about women who are so ashamed they can't even come forward?
What about women who have to continue to work with their rapist?
Live with their rapist?
Go to school with their rapist?

Bummer that someone is threatening to accuse you, and perhaps you didn't violate her.
But perhaps you did, and you just don't consider it "rape," or maybe not "legitimate rape."
Maybe it's just an "issue with boundaries." Maybe she's "exaggerating." Or is it "buyer's remorse"?
I obviously don't know the details, but I'd be very interested in hearing them.

My rapist claims it's a "false accusation," too. Of course he does. I've been extremely vocal about it on my blog and elsewhere, although I've never outed him by name. He, actually, outed himself on FB. Still, his reputation isn't "tarnished." It was I who was ostracized, shunned, shamed, called a liar. In all of this, maybe he's had an uncomfortable few weeks, but I've endured 6 months (and counting) of being barely functional and suffering severe PTSD. So, I don't have a lot of sympathy for the accused, not when so many women are raped and discarded and forgotten while the rapist goes on to do more damage. If someone's accused, there's usually a reason, even if they don't consider it "rape," something traumatic and/or abusive happened.

That's what any accused should be asking themselves, and that's what the community should question them about, too: Why is she accusing me? Why did she think consent was removed/not given and I don't? Did she freeze up and I just wasn't present enough to notice? Was she pushing me away? Scared? Did I cross some boundaries?

And what I look for is how the accused responds. Is it "the bitch is crazy" or "has issues," or does he ask the above questions? Is there after care and finding out why she feels this way? Are there steps to make amends?

What I do know is that, as a survivor, it never even crossed my mind to accuse someone of rape, even after I was raped. It took five months of intense therapy and talking to 8 different sexual assault professionals and three police officers for me to even begin to accept that it was, indeed, rape. That, in and of itself, was traumatizing. To admit you've been raped, especially by someone you loved and trusted so deeply. I've never met a woman who wants to be a rape victim, which is why so many women I've talked to have kept quiet about their assaults and often don't even use The R Word. It's too horrific to accept. And, it really is.

Where are my rights? Where does all that money for therapy come from? Where is my freedom? When I had to *leave the state* and move 2,000 miles away because I was so afraid to go anywhere. Where is the protection of my rights? My due process? What about my inability to make love to my husband? To be sexual at all? What about the days lost crying in near catatonia? What about the unending fear and loss of trust? Where is my compensation for that?

Yes. I thought so.

Please, don't question me again until you do some fucking research. It's all I've done for the past 3 months.
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Re: Serial Rapist on the playa

Postby omgrey » Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:31 pm

MacGlenver wrote:
I think the real issue here is the rape -- not the impossibility of getting the test administered. This guy needs to be prosecuted.


Agreed. He sure does.

And to answer another's question, I would be very willing to give up my burn to drive someone to and from Reno. I would be very willing to take calls at 2am and the rest of it.

Yes. Quite willing.
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Re: Serial Rapist on the playa

Postby crstophr » Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:43 pm

I was playing DJ at Emerald City the night the victim entered into our camp. While I wasn't directly interacting with her I was part of the camp that found her and had a good vantage point to observe. I can relay what happened at least from our perspective.

A young woman came into our camp in a highly intoxicated state about 2:30AM. Our bartenders quickly realized that something wasn't right and focused on helping her. She couldn't verbally communicate with us in the state she was in yet was clearly upset. Being located at 9:15 and esplanade we'd been seeing our share of over intoxicated people and right or wrong we simply believed she had taken way to many drugs and mainly needed time and comfort to work through it. One of our folks took her into a more quiet and private space in a common area behind our main structure.

About 3AM a different individual fell off of a 3 story scaffolding structure in our camp. I immediately killed the music and sent out the crowd looking for ESD, Rangers, or LEO to report the fall and get help. It took less than 5 minutes for an ambulance to arrive. We had multiple rangers, ESD, and EMTs on site at this point. The person helping the woman out back came up front and suggested she needed help from the Rangers. A few minutes later she was loaded into the ambulance along with the person who fell.

At this time we all had no clue about what had really happened to her. Our camp has a veteran ESD member in it as well as strong connections to the rangers and DPW. Through those connections we learned the truth about what had happened. The next day we were all somewhat scrutinized by the rangers. We were asked a lot of questions. They had a couple of descriptions (two guys involved) and were essentially creating a net to keep the suspected individuals in sight. They were looking at a number of people who met the loose description they had across a number of camps.

Want It was just one of the camps inside the net. Eventually were told that both individuals had been apprehended and neither was from Want It. I'm deeply saddened to hear that formal charges were never filed. We had extremely positive interactions with the want it people next door. They were always easy to work with and friendly and were wonderful neighbors. Everything I've heard at this point seems to indicate that the perpetrators were not from that camp. Everything I've relayed past the night itself is purely hear-say so take it for what it's worth.

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Re: Serial Rapist on the playa

Postby omgrey » Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:12 pm

Some things to read:
What a Witch Hunt Actually Is
Schroedinger's Rapist
Meet the Predators
Reddit Rapist Thread. Oh yes, they know.
"My Friend, the Rapist"
The Power of Responsibility
A Nightmare Scenario
Project Unbreakable - very sobering
The Survivor Thread - even more sobering
The R Word
Out, Damned spot. Out. - on outing rapists
Cut the Double Standard - I wonder how many apologists we'd have if the tables were turned.
A Fate Worse Than Death - this.
Rape Culture - from a blog by a woman who was raped at Burning Man several years ago
From whom should we learn about rape? From the survivors.

Also, one woman's account on why she didn't call the cops.

Also, if you're wondering why Rachel hasn't been back on the thread, I can almost guarantee that it's because she and her daughter are dealing with a kind of hell most cannot ever imagine. The last thing she needs is to see this thread and be retraumatized through victim blaming and the rest of this argument. When my rapist outed himself on our local burner FB group, I disappeared from the group and didn't go back. I couldn't stomach it, and neither could my husband. Unless you've lived it, you cannot begin to imagine the level of trauma, agony, and damage.

If and when she does come back, let's show her and her daughter nothing but support. No more victim blaming.
Just, what can we do to help. Anything you need.

Peace.
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Re: Serial Rapist on the playa

Postby scott_k » Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:18 pm

@omgrey

I apologize as I do not have the time to answer all of the questions in your response to me. If you don't think due process is a fair system that *works*, then perhaps you should move to a country where it is not one of your protected rights and see how safe you feel.

I'm not in a position to answer most of your questions regarding the individual who at one point threatened to formally accuse me of rape. However, I can tell you that I (like so many others) have had to screenshot text messages and download emails from the would-be accuser documenting extortion (for example, "get back together with me or I'll screw you over... I swear to fucking god... I'll say whatever it takes and no one will listen to you...). I would think that you of all people would be horribly offended to see how people are willing to take advantage of the laws that are in place to punish actual perpetrators, like the one who attacked you.

Loosening our nation's policies with regard to due process will not bring more rapists to justice. It would only be a matter of time before someone slanders you and ruins your reputation, and you'd have no legal recourse to defend yourself.
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Re: Serial Rapist on the playa

Postby maladroit » Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:25 pm

I haven't seen any victim blaming in this thread. At least, you can't file ALL "this should have been handled differently" with the commonly understood definition of victim blaming.

"Her family and friends should have supported her through the process of filing charges" is not the same as "She shouldn't have dressed attractively."
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Re: Serial Rapist on the playa

Postby omgrey » Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:31 pm

scott_k wrote:@omgrey

I apologize as I do not have the time to answer all of the questions in your response to me. If you don't think due process is a fair system that *works*, then perhaps you should move to a country where it is not one of your protected rights and see how safe you feel.

I'm not in a position to answer most of your questions regarding the individual who at one point threatened to formally accuse me of rape. However, I can tell you that I (like so many others) have had to screenshot text messages and download emails from the would-be accuser documenting extortion (for example, "get back together with me or I'll screw you over... I swear to fucking god... I'll say whatever it takes and no one will listen to you...). I would think that you of all people would be horribly offended to see how people are willing to take advantage of the laws that are in place to punish actual perpetrators, like the one who attacked you.

Loosening our nation's policies with regard to due process will not bring more rapists to justice. It would only be a matter of time before someone slanders you and ruins your reputation, and you'd have no legal recourse to defend yourself.


Wow. Really. With the "if you don't like this country, leave it" argument. Nice. Quite predictable, actually.
Last time I looked, freedom of speech was still one of the rights I haven't lost. One thing my rapist didn't steal from me.

Perhaps you would have said the same thing to the women and men who fought for civil rights. For equality in voting. For the end of slavery.

As I said, this is not a court of law. I also didn't say due process didn't work; I said it's not working in the case of rape if 97% of rapists are waling free. Nice try of trying to mince my words.

Due process works well in a court of law for *most* crimes, but it's not perfect. But with the issue of rape, it's not working, as I said the first time. We certainly don't give it up, and I never suggested that. I said it's not working in the case of rape. Do I need to say it again for you to not misquote me?

I said rape a cultural issue. As with the above issues of equality and rights and such, it was when CULTURAL opinions changed that the laws changed, and that's what has to happen here. As long as we're living in a rape culture, it won't change. As long as people blame victims, it won't change. This is about education and cultural responsibility.

If you have threats like that via email, then you have a pretty good case that she would be lying. That is, if she is lying. I've been assaulted several times where I didn't report it to the police. Doesn't mean it didn't happen. Perhaps she was asking to be treated like a human being at the end of a relationship instead of yesterday's garbage, or perhaps she was being deeply manipulative. I don't know her, and I don't know you. But either is possible, as well as a myriad of other possibilities in between.

No time to answer my questions. Interesting.
My rapist won't respond to the accusations either.
He just hides behind "I would never do that," and refuses to speak to the events.
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Re: Serial Rapist on the playa

Postby scucurullo » Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:33 pm

I am terribly saddened by this story. My heart goes out to your daughter and to you and I sincerely thank you for posting this and activating our community to take it seriously. Not only do we need rape kits, we need a 24 hour rape crisis counsellor. A rape crisis counsellor is experienced at supporting victims - who are often in shock - and capable of helping her - or him - (rape happens to men too though not as often) to make critical decisions which can impact their long-term mental and physical health when they may be least able to do so without support. In addition, we need Ranger training to support their ability to follow up with camps - not just on doing proper searches etc. - but also to engage essential and healthy conversations within camps impacted by sexual assault and rape - whether their campmate was a victim or a perpatrator. I respect Jason's response and trust from it that Want It camp will engage in a meaningful self-examination on this issue in the months ahead. BUT we ALL need to engage this conversation. Rape happens on Playa and if we don't own that truth we cannot come together to fight it - to put the words and actions in place that make BRC the safest and most supportive city on the planet. Many of us believe that is already true - but we must make it true for all our citizens. We cannot let this drop or be forgotten. Shining light on our dark corners is the only way to protect what we have co-created.
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Re: Serial Rapist on the playa

Postby omgrey » Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:35 pm

scucurullo wrote: Shining light on our dark corners is the only way to protect what we have co-created.


Beautifully said.

Silence is the abusers greatest weapon. Let us never be silent again.
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Re: Serial Rapist on the playa

Postby scott_k » Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:57 pm

omgrey wrote:
scott_k wrote:@omgrey

No time to answer my questions. Interesting.
My rapist won't respond to the accusations either.
He just hides behind "I would never do that," and refuses to speak to the events.


By using the word "either", are you making a subtle suggestion that you'd like the opportunity say outright?

hold on, I'm going to go make some popcorn.
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Re: Serial Rapist on the playa

Postby omgrey » Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:03 pm

scott_k wrote:
omgrey wrote:
scott_k wrote:@omgrey

No time to answer my questions. Interesting.
My rapist won't respond to the accusations either.
He just hides behind "I would never do that," and refuses to speak to the events.


By using the word "either", are you making a subtle suggestion that you'd like the opportunity say outright?

hold on, I'm going to go make some popcorn.


Nope. No subtle suggestion here. I speak my mind, or haven't you noticed?

Enjoy your popcorn.
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Re: Serial Rapist on the playa

Postby thirt33n » Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:13 pm

Yeah...well. Obviously i'm not the only one who was a little "knives out"...
There are several sides to this here thread and pretty much everyone has a valid point. Even the fellows who told me to "make it happen myself".

Rape is not as cut and dry as a car accident in which the ambulance comes, assesses the damage(injury) and make the decision to take you to the hospital for you because that's their professional decision to make.(or is it?)

WHY isn't rape looked upon in the exact same manner? Because rape is mistakenly thrown into a lesser category? Because unlike a car accident the victims and their support system are given the choice? ..It's my opinion that it may be a combination of the two...

Much like not letting friends/family drive drunk or make other clouded decisions there should be awareness that if someone is raped or thinks they are raped then it is all of the caring people around them that make damn sure that the hospital trip is required. No if's ands or buts....

I just had my first child. A daughter. 3 months old. I know what I am going to do if, god forbid, this ever happens. It's a no brainer to me now...Rape Kit/Hospital/Counseling. DUH.(sorry to be blunt but really,...duh)

Maybe, Omgrey, you can provide me with your thoughts on this as I defer to you as not only the threads "expert" but also the one with the samurai sword swinging.
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Re: Serial Rapist on the playa

Postby jkisha » Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:30 pm

Yes, but was it a legitimate rape?

Never mind, I never said that. :shock: :oops:
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Re: Serial Rapist on the playa

Postby dana » Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:38 pm

kittyrodriguez wrote:As for the idea that conducting a rape examination on playa is easy, and should be made available, I think many are misunderstanding the major issue here. It is not a matter of the ability to collect the evidence. It is a matter of the viability of such collection in court. Even in the default world, a rape examination cannot be performed at any medical facility by any medical professional. There are specific, licensed centers that use approved labs. Even in major cities with excellent facilities that have spotless records, evidence collected can, and is, disputed and thrown out. It is unreasonable to think that a facility, no matter how state of the art, that is only operational for one or two weeks a year, in a location that is volatile and misunderstood by the general population, would be accepted as an acceptable forensics laboratory.

Conducting an on playa sexual assault examination would be unnecessary trauma for the victim. After suffering through such an examination only to have the evidence discredited would be very difficult for the victim. Any defense attorney would jump on the opportunity to discredit such evidence. "Well, ladies and gentlemen, this examination was conducted in a trailer at Burning Man, you know, that giant rave-orgy in the desert." Victims of assault at Burning Man already are at a disadvantage in court in defaultia because of the location of the crime.
.


Pretty much any emergency physician can and does conduct rape exams. (I've done a few over the years.) I was under the impression that the main medical facility at BM was staffed by ED physicians. The kits are pretty much idiot-proof with a bunch of labeled containers/bags and instructions. So in theory they could be done on the playa but when it comes to solid forensic evidence I would want it done in Reno even if the BM docs were willing. Testing for rape drugs, good photos, the whole thing that police do would really happen better in a bigger city. The doctor who does the exam and the initial responding officers are all likely to be called as witnesses if it goes to court. They usually seem to settle one way or the other though. I've never been called for any of the exams I've done.
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Re: Serial Rapist on the playa

Postby maryanimal » Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:10 pm

ESDchief wrote:
maryanimal wrote:Dearest rblackraven,

We need to bring rape kits to the playa. I'll be looking into it. I'll post what I find out. We may have to have a fundraiser if necessary. Can anyone tell me where the Dr's and nurses come from? Local hospitals? I'm going to call around tomorrow to get as much info as I can. This is an issue I can relate to.


It isn't a matter of funding, it's just not legally feasible to have forensic exams out in the field. If it was we would already have them in place. Medical at Burning Man is managed by Burning Man's Emergency Services Department. More information about ESD is available here: http://911.burningman.com and you can follow up with us via email at 911@burningman.com.


Thanks for the info ESD. I must agree with you. It's just I'm so passionate about this subject. I did some research and it's a big process gathering evidence and such. It's a shame though that they don't have kits to easily identify the perpatrator.
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