2012 Experiences with Police

Share your pictures and video. Tell us about the sights, sounds, and scents, as well as the rumors and truths found at Burning Man.

Re: 2012 Experiences with Police

Postby BBadger » Tue Sep 11, 2012 5:32 am

randomguy2u wrote:Sunday night my bike was stolen with a bag containing my fire staff from the temple burn. Monday afternoon i drove back to the temple burn location to see if they left the bag behind. I was told by a ranger i couldn't drive in the middle of the playa until 6pm. I slowly headed out of the area when 2 more cars stopped me. He said he smelled marijuana. He wanted me to roll down passenger window so BLM could talk to me. He reached in and found a crumb of pot on the dash. He asked if I had a medical prescription in California I said yes. So they ended up searching, and I got a ticket for possesion of controlled substance (hash) , drug paraphernalia, and an open container. I am not looking for sympathy I just want to know the repercussions of this from somebody that may have had these tickets at past burns. I read one that said they are all misdemeanors, but in some priviliged information federal record? I would appreciate any info about this.


That is something people need to remember to refuse to answer--like all questions besides name and address.

Remember that owning (or admitting to owning) a Medical Marijuana Card or prescription could be construed as probable cause. Don't answer questions.

As for what is on record, I would obtain a copy of your criminal record, federal and state. See what shows up.
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Re: 2012 Experiences with Police

Postby CornMan » Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:17 am

It is probably best to pretend you are a prisoner of war. Rank, name, and serial number only. Show them your driver's license and insurance right off. Don't try to hide your identification. Have your insurance papers handy in the glove box. Keep both hands on the wheel. Look straight ahead. Say, "I do not consent to you searching my vehicle or person." Then say that you wish to go and ask if you are free to go. Say nothing more even if asked. The worst that can happen, other than the possible privileged federal record which is unclear, is to pay a fine not much more than running a red light in Sacramento. These cops' overzealous surveillance and drug enforcement is forcing us to learn our rights.
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Re: 2012 Experiences with Police

Postby vargaso » Tue Sep 11, 2012 11:38 am

Why bring weed to BRC? It's pretty much the only thing people get busted for, and weed is fucking boring anyway. Stay away from the weed for a week, is that so hard? Do other, better, unscented drugs instead. Problem solved. That way, if you do get stopped and they bring in the dogs, you're golden. Unless you're stupid enough to bring cocaine. Don't bring cocaine, either. Christ, what a dumb drug. Bring only good drugs. Don't consume them outside your camp. Don't walk around with your entire stash. Don't be an idiot. And follow BBadger's advice on dealing with LEOs.

For chrissakes.
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Re: 2012 Experiences with Police

Postby urvile » Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:08 pm

The series of letters and numbers marked on the LEO vehicles out there (ex., B305) is the officers badge number, in case anyone remembers that but did not get other identifying information about the agency/name/number of the officer involved in any incident.
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Re: 2012 Experiences with Police

Postby misfit » Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:28 pm

"i do not consent to a search, but i will cooperate."
smile, be friendly and maintain eye contact with the officer.
LEO and burners all have the same goal, a peaceful event where we burn shit.
if you recieved a ticket for illicit drugs, then thats on you. own it and stop whinning.
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Re: 2012 Experiences with Police

Postby Dr Helix » Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:41 pm

I have no position with drugs vs no drugs on the playa. To each his own. But I will say this. I didn't see any BOOZE sniffin' dogs out there. If you don't want the potential problem, don't bring the potential problem. And.......I'm done here.
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Re: 2012 Experiences with Police

Postby ZaphodBurner » Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:28 pm

vargaso wrote:Why bring weed to BRC? It's pretty much the only thing people get busted for, and weed is fucking boring anyway. .



Why bring bacon to BRC? Why bring booze (people get DUIIed, too, quite factually) and beer is fucking boring anyway.

Seriously. You're gonna get popped for serving to minors because you couldn't live without beer for a week and some undercover hottie fooled you into thinking she was legal?

There should be some sort of drug approval committee upon which volunteers check your drugs and determine for you whether they're too boring for the playa.
"E...okay, that's a good drug. Shrooms...fuckin' AWESOME on the playa... LSD, nah.. Waste of Burning Man. PBR..what, are you high? Weed...no, you don't need this. Weed is fucking boring."

All of the weed and piss-beer goes directly to Burn Wall Street and the DPW for proper disposal.

Honestly, as an American conservative (blahblahblah), there ought to be ONE PLACE IN AMERICA WHERE ADULTS CAN GO BE ADULTS WITHOUT NANNY'S DOGS SNIFFING UP THEIR ASSES. It's weird how in the state of Nevada you can legally get shitfaced and hire a woman and treat her like shit her with all of your buddies, but, if you get her high on the playa that's drug trafficking. Sorry to be ugly but that's what it is. They don't mind if you blow your family's entire fortune while your kids are running around at Circus Circus, or drink yourself to death in a hotel room, but they'll make a criminal out of you sharing your weed with other adults in the middle of the Black Rock Desert because...uhhh.. Because. That's why. That is life in the great state of Nevada.
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Re: 2012 Experiences with Police

Postby gyre » Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:43 pm

ZaphodBurner wrote:
Honestly, as an American conservative (blahblahblah), there ought to be ONE PLACE IN AMERICA WHERE ADULTS CAN GO BE ADULTS WITHOUT NANNY'S DOGS SNIFFING UP THEIR ASSES.

Well, you can smoke crack in public here.

I suspect you can easily do so in reno during the burn too.

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Re: 2012 Experiences with Police

Postby Snow » Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:55 pm

ZaphodBurner wrote:Honestly, as an American conservative (blahblahblah), there ought to be ONE PLACE IN AMERICA WHERE ADULTS CAN GO BE ADULTS WITHOUT NANNY'S DOGS SNIFFING UP THEIR ASSES. It's weird how in the state of Nevada you can legally get shitfaced and hire a woman and treat her like shit her with all of your buddies, but, if you get her high on the playa that's drug trafficking. Sorry to be ugly but that's what it is. They don't mind if you blow your family's entire fortune while your kids are running around at Circus Circus, or drink yourself to death in a hotel room, but they'll make a criminal out of you sharing your weed with other adults in the middle of the Black Rock Desert because...uhhh.. Because. That's why. That is life in the great state of Nevada.

don't forget the BLM is a federal agency, they don't have to recognize NV medical cards either.
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Re: 2012 Experiences with Police

Postby fresh » Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:12 am

Night of the burn, I was at Burn Wall Street, I was right up on the perimeter to watch the fire. It was extremely hot for sure!!! Afterwards as I got back to the MV and was dancing with a group of friends, 2 officers from Nevada Bureau of Investigations came up to me. They called me by name and asked to take a picture of me. While stunned, once officer put his arm around me saying hey we just want a picture. The second officer snapped the pic, then showed me the picture on the camera saying how good it came out, along with "don't worry, we just want a picture". Then they walked away. I was completely freaked out. My buddy then told me that they spoke to him first (hence knowing my name) and that they were taking pictures of people right on the perimeter. In my state of mind I was so confused, but then let it go. Not sure if it was my attire that they were laughing about, or if it was "lets get pics of potential anarchists". Would love to see that picture again....
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Re: 2012 Experiences with Police

Postby vargaso » Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:56 am

ZaphodBurner wrote:
vargaso wrote:Why bring weed to BRC? It's pretty much the only thing people get busted for, and weed is fucking boring anyway. .



Why bring bacon to BRC? Why bring booze (people get DUIIed, too, quite factually) and beer is fucking boring anyway.

Seriously. You're gonna get popped for serving to minors because you couldn't live without beer for a week and some undercover hottie fooled you into thinking she was legal?

There should be some sort of drug approval committee upon which volunteers check your drugs and determine for you whether they're too boring for the playa.
"E...okay, that's a good drug. Shrooms...fuckin' AWESOME on the playa... LSD, nah.. Waste of Burning Man. PBR..what, are you high? Weed...no, you don't need this. Weed is fucking boring."

All of the weed and piss-beer goes directly to Burn Wall Street and the DPW for proper disposal.

Honestly, as an American conservative (blahblahblah), there ought to be ONE PLACE IN AMERICA WHERE ADULTS CAN GO BE ADULTS WITHOUT NANNY'S DOGS SNIFFING UP THEIR ASSES. It's weird how in the state of Nevada you can legally get shitfaced and hire a woman and treat her like shit her with all of your buddies, but, if you get her high on the playa that's drug trafficking. Sorry to be ugly but that's what it is. They don't mind if you blow your family's entire fortune while your kids are running around at Circus Circus, or drink yourself to death in a hotel room, but they'll make a criminal out of you sharing your weed with other adults in the middle of the Black Rock Desert because...uhhh.. Because. That's why. That is life in the great state of Nevada.


I was joking, man. I totally agree that we should be able to indulge in whatever we'd like to out there. (Although seriously, weed is pretty boring.)
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Re: 2012 Experiences with Police

Postby Lonesomebri » Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:01 am

vargaso wrote:I was joking, man. I totally agree that we should be able to indulge in whatever we'd like to out there. (Although seriously, weed is pretty boring.)


Funny how often people take internal conditions and place it on external factors........
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Re: 2012 Experiences with Police

Postby Bounce530 » Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:54 am

A gift that I've been making and handing out for the last 5 years are these laminates with the Lawyers for Burners verbage on them:
How to Speak to Law Enforcement
Officer, my name is [give your real name].

Please explain to me your probable cause for stopping me, and if it seems reasonable to me, I will give you my personal identification information.

I politely refuse to give you any further information.

I do not consent to any search of me or my belongings, tent, vehicle or camp.

Am I free to go?

Remember, this is legal information not legal advice, which is an interpretation of the applicable law to specific circumstances. We urge you to consult a lawyer for legal advice about a particular legal question or issue you may have.

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Re: 2012 Experiences with Police

Postby SaritaSyrah » Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:02 am

My sweet friend and I had just made a port-a-potty run and were headed back to camp when a Pershing county vehicle pulled up to the potties. It looked like the fellas had brought their wives to check out all of the crazy burners. We stopped to talk to the ladies while the fellas went potty.

When the fellas came back, they were sweet and funny. They told us they had all come to watch BWS, but it had been moved to the next night and we should tell everybody. They all hugged us and told us to be safe and have a good burn.


Also, on burn night, there were three burly, uniformed officers walking around and poking their manly-man noses into groups of people. My camp mates and I were sitting in a little circle on the ground, probably looking pretty suspicious, so one of them strolled our way. I stood up and started a conversation, another officer joined. They told me that this event was always the highlight of their year, and they really enjoyed all of the people. It was one's third year, and the other's fourth. Somebody said something in their radios and they were off.

Quite a few more non-eventful stories, but they're just as boring and along the same lines. Dont be a dummy and the officers wont treat you like one.
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Re: 2012 Experiences with Police

Postby vargaso » Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:27 am

Lonesomebri wrote:
vargaso wrote:I was joking, man. I totally agree that we should be able to indulge in whatever we'd like to out there. (Although seriously, weed is pretty boring.)


Funny how often people take internal conditions and place it on external factors........


Indeed.
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Re: 2012 Experiences with Police

Postby randomguy2u » Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:23 pm

Is there anybody out there that has got a weed ticket at past burning mans. I posted earlier about my 3 tickets. I just want to know if somebody got this ticket and just paid it, what happened? Does it go on your normal record? Does it go on some secret federal BLM record? are they all misdemeanors? where does court happen if u fight it? I got possession of a controlled substance (hash), drug paraphernalia, and open container. any info will help
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Re: 2012 Experiences with Police

Postby unjonharley » Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:25 pm

fresh wrote:Night of the burn, I was at Burn Wall Street, I was right up on the perimeter to watch the fire. It was extremely hot for sure!!! Afterwards as I got back to the MV and was dancing with a group of friends, 2 officers from Nevada Bureau of Investigations came up to me. They called me by name and asked to take a picture of me. While stunned, once officer put his arm around me saying hey we just want a picture. The second officer snapped the pic, then showed me the picture on the camera saying how good it came out, along with "don't worry, we just want a picture". Then they walked away. I was completely freaked out. My buddy then told me that they spoke to him first (hence knowing my name) and that they were taking pictures of people right on the perimeter. In my state of mind I was so confused, but then let it go. Not sure if it was my attire that they were laughing about, or if it was "lets get pics of potential anarchists". Would love to see that picture again....


You tell some cop my name and I will kick you in the nuts..
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Re: 2012 Experiences with Police

Postby fresh » Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:11 pm

unjonharley wrote:
fresh wrote:Night of the burn, I was at Burn Wall Street, I was right up on the perimeter to watch the fire. It was extremely hot for sure!!! Afterwards as I got back to the MV and was dancing with a group of friends, 2 officers from Nevada Bureau of Investigations came up to me. They called me by name and asked to take a picture of me. While stunned, once officer put his arm around me saying hey we just want a picture. The second officer snapped the pic, then showed me the picture on the camera saying how good it came out, along with "don't worry, we just want a picture". Then they walked away. I was completely freaked out. My buddy then told me that they spoke to him first (hence knowing my name) and that they were taking pictures of people right on the perimeter. In my state of mind I was so confused, but then let it go. Not sure if it was my attire that they were laughing about, or if it was "lets get pics of potential anarchists". Would love to see that picture again....


You tell some cop my name and I will kick you in the nuts..


I had absolutely no problem with this since it was one of my closest friends. He was looking out for my best interests for sure....
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Re: 2012 Experiences with Police

Postby junglesmacks » Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:04 pm

fresh wrote:Night of the burn, I was at Burn Wall Street, I was right up on the perimeter to watch the fire. It was extremely hot for sure!!! Afterwards as I got back to the MV and was dancing with a group of friends, 2 officers from Nevada Bureau of Investigations came up to me. They called me by name and asked to take a picture of me. While stunned, once officer put his arm around me saying hey we just want a picture. The second officer snapped the pic, then showed me the picture on the camera saying how good it came out, along with "don't worry, we just want a picture". Then they walked away. I was completely freaked out. My buddy then told me that they spoke to him first (hence knowing my name) and that they were taking pictures of people right on the perimeter. In my state of mind I was so confused, but then let it go. Not sure if it was my attire that they were laughing about, or if it was "lets get pics of potential anarchists". Would love to see that picture again....



WOW.

Last year, I witnessed some pretty strange picture taking activities by BLM officers out at RH one night. It really freaked me out. trying to dig up the post I made about it..
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Re: 2012 Experiences with Police

Postby maladroit » Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:12 pm

I think I remember you describing that. Basically, a group of officers essentially forcing several people to take pictures with them, not knowing if they were in trouble or being arrested or whatever. Acting like burners are objects to be posed and pictures taken whenever they want.
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Re: 2012 Experiences with Police

Postby Lonesomebri » Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:30 pm

maladroit wrote:I think I remember you describing that. Basically, a group of officers essentially forcing several people to take pictures with them, not knowing if they were in trouble or being arrested or whatever. Acting like burners are objects to be posed and pictures taken whenever they want.

But they're so friendly, when not busting you, or compelling you against your will, or inducing paranoia, or revelling in being such cool people...and in control.
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Re: 2012 Experiences with Police

Postby omgrey » Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:01 pm

My experience with the Pershing Sheriff Dept was very positive. A man who raped me earlier this year was on the playa, and he tried to confront me at a sexual assault awareness workshop, of all places. I filed a report, and they were wonderfully supportive and kind. Later in the week, this man started behaving very stalkerish, and I filed an amendment to the report. These different deputies were also very supportive and kind.

I have since tried to get a copy of those reports, and I've discovered they gave me the wrong case number. So now I'm waiting for all the reports to come in from Washoe (as the deputies on playa are actually retired Washoe County officers) to see what the correct case number is. They say they have *so many* reports from BM, and a lot of them are sexual assault cases.
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Re: 2012 Experiences with Police

Postby dana » Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:13 pm

Disturbing thread. This is a good post. I ran into another one of these youtube videos once that recommended locking your vehicle if asked to exit. Police will often lie to fabricate probable cause or twist/distort information however they like. I keep wanting to get around to having recording gear already mounted in my vehicle for any interaction with LEO's. I already learned the hard way how far a cop will go. Witnesses are easy to intimidate apparently.

BBadger wrote:- Shutting up and saying absolutely nothing = Only guilty if they can legally search your belongings and find something. YOUR BEST OPTION. "We found this in your camp, do you know what it is?" "Officer, I respectfully decline to answer that." He can't do anything to you unless he has real probable cause, carries out an investigation, and actually proves guilt. Until then, you are innocent.

Conclusion:

Anything you say, can and will be used against you. Conversely, nothing you say can or will be used for you.

Say nothing besides your legal obligation to provide your name if asked. This includes the truth, vouching for friends, trying to "help" etc. Nothing you say will help. Just shut up. Do ask if you're being detained and whether you can leave. Do not consent to a search under any circumstances. Do not confess to anything under any circumstances unless you are in a court of law under advice of a lawyer.

If you are arrested, being interrogated, etc. do not say anything. Do not believe any statements about what others have said, etc. Police officers are allowed to lie. You are not. Also, anything you say can be used against your friends and yourself. The best way to get your "alibis" straight with friends or witnesses is to say nothing. That is the solution to the prisoner dilemma.

Police officers can also lie with regards to your "rights." They can state that they now have probable cause even if they do not. No, your rights are not violated by this. Know your rights.

Above all: shut the hell up.

A good video outlining all this, including advice from an actual cop:






I would be curious to see what the final numbers look like for citations/arrests this year compared to previous. I can't quite imagine a new site happening. BM is so huge now I have to doubt whether a new county (or state) would make all the permits etc. happen.
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Re: 2012 Experiences with Police

Postby theCryptofishist » Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:21 pm

omgrey wrote:... and a lot of them are sexual assault cases.

This saddens me.
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Re: 2012 Experiences with Police

Postby urvile » Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:09 pm

randomguy2u wrote:Is there anybody out there that has got a weed ticket at past burning mans. I posted earlier about my 3 tickets. I just want to know if somebody got this ticket and just paid it, what happened? Does it go on your normal record? Does it go on some secret federal BLM record? are they all misdemeanors? where does court happen if u fight it? I got possession of a controlled substance (hash), drug paraphernalia, and open container. any info will help


The possession is a misdemeanor, not sure about the other two. Yes, it will go on your record as such if you plead guilty/pay the fine. Usually it just says possession of a controlled substance, but it may specify what substance. That means it will appear on your record if anyone runs a background check, and potentially if you are stopped by another police officer for, say, a traffic violation. You would also have to disclose that information on employment applications if it asks something like, "Have you ever been convicted of a crime/misdemeanor?"

If you fight the ticket, instead of paying the fine, it will be in Pershing County, Lovelock, NV. You can obtain counsel to fight the charge for you, and you may not have to make an appearance. Contact Lawyersforburners as they may be able to offer pro bono legal assistance, and their success rate is pretty high. Pay close attention to when you have to either pay the ticket or appear to contest (whether personally or by representation). Failure to do either of those things can result in bench warrant being issued for your arrest, and additional fines and penalties.
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Re: 2012 Experiences with Police

Postby psdesertrat » Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:15 pm

I for one appreciate the feedback regarding the drug sniffing dog. I was fully aware of the "don't give consent to search" guidance but I mistakingly thought that extended to the dogs so that woukd have been troubling if we had gone down that path... But as for all the other self-righteous boobs on this thread, do you people even go to Burning Man? Because if you are you are wasting your time, money and effort. The last thing someone needs after enduring these legal entanglements is your piety, whether you believe we deserve it or not... And for the record I believe 100% that the officer had no actual cause to pull me over, I wasn't speeding and I will be at the Wadsworth Justice Center in October vigorously fighting with photographic evidence that my license plate conformed to the Nevada Code (the statute is extremely vague and you could totally see my license plate)... And furthermore I've been using that bike rack for 16 years without a problem and I only had one bike on it AND I had even taken the front tire off the bike so the plate was actually much more visible than one might expect. In fact I contend that the mere fact that he could see my California plate is actually the reason he pulled me over in the first place.
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Re: 2012 Experiences with Police

Postby urvile » Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:19 pm

I think people are simply trying to educate, but I can appreciate your feeling that it may a bit over the top with the "you're doing it wrong" attitude.

If you can invalidate the initial stop, you can likely get any evidence obtained from a subsequent search tossed. I would encourage you to fight the citation, but counsel you to obtain a lawyer. Contact lawyersforburners, they may be able to offer pro bono legal assistance.

psdesertrat wrote:I for one appreciate the feedback regarding the drug sniffing dog. I was fully aware of the "don't give consent to search" guidance but I mistakingly thought that extended to the dogs so that woukd have been troubling if we had gone down that path... But as for all the other self-righteous boobs on this thread, do you people even go to Burning Man? Because if you are you are wasting your time, money and effort. The last thing someone needs after enduring these legal entanglements is your piety, whether you believe we deserve it or not... And for the record I believe 100% that the officer had no actual cause to pull me over, I wasn't speeding and I will be at the Wadsworth Justice Center in October vigorously fighting with photographic evidence that my license plate conformed to the Nevada Code (the statute is extremely vague and you could totally see my license plate)... And furthermore I've been using that bike rack for 16 years without a problem and I only had one bike on it AND I had even taken the front tire off the bike so the plate was actually much more visible than one might expect. In fact I contend that the mere fact that he could see my California plate is actually the reason he pulled me over in the first place.
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Re: 2012 Experiences with Police

Postby unjonharley » Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:58 am

:?: :?: :?:

If a narc dog gets a hit off your van.. Is that enough to search in side :?: :?: Providing you keep the doors closed.. Even when asked to get out.. exit and close the door/windows

Has anyone seen a cop dog riding along :?: :?: Or has anyone had a cop dog work your car :?: :?:
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Re: 2012 Experiences with Police

Postby urvile » Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:24 pm

unjonharley wrote::?: :?: :?:

If a narc dog gets a hit off your van.. Is that enough to search in side :?: :?: Providing you keep the doors closed.. Even when asked to get out.. exit and close the door/windows

Has anyone seen a cop dog riding along :?: :?: Or has anyone had a cop dog work your car :?: :?:


If you were stopped for a valid reason, and you were not made to wait under police detention for an extended period of time until the dog showed up (15 minutes is reasonable, but 1 hour is too much, and we don;t know where the dividing line is) , then answer will probably that a search resulting from a dog sniff of the exterior of the vehicle will be upheld. However, new theories and methods of attacking such searches are being developed, and even minor details of a case could become relevant to a skilled attorney in fighting any charges which may result from such a search.

Remember, you can state that you do not consent to be searched, but do so politely, and do not resist.
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Re: 2012 Experiences with Police

Postby unjonharley » Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:49 pm

A video cam would go a long way in backing cops demands down..

You can buy dummy cams for a little to nothing..

I have a friend that keeps his cam corder on a tripod between the seat.. He has photographed some pretty interesting stuff over the years.. Even had it running when he was forced off the road and rolled his van and trailer..
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