AMBER Alert abuse

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AMBER Alert abuse

Postby bunnyalert » Sun Sep 02, 2012 5:40 am

In the case of missing 15 year old Nikki Peress, BMorg and local law enforcement initiated its missing child protocol on Friday, including an AMBER Alert and citywide shutdown operations, whereby all outbound traffic and airport departures were halted.

The AMBER Alert activation criteria is very specific that it should not be used unless there is proof of an abduction. It is a Child Abduction Emergency Service, and when it is applied without proof of an abduction, and where it is later determined that the child was simply a 'runaway' (as in the case with Nikki), it causes the public to become desensitized to AMBER Alerts.

Because this AMBER Alert was falsely activated, we now have 50,000+ people who might think twice before becoming concerned about the next AMBER Alert. Using the AMBER Alert (regardless of good intentions) to find a missing person is like using a sledge hammer to swat a fly. The ends do not justify the means, as it damages the integrity of the system and puts children, who are abducted in the future, at greater risk.

Not only is this abuse of the system so alarming because of the bad judgement of authorities, but since when are civil liberties of an entire city able to be revoked because someone thinks a crime may have been committed against one member? People were falsely detained at the gate and at the airport. One pilot was told that although he would not be physically restrained if he tried to fly away, but that he would be reported to the FAA and he would lose his pilot's license.

I don't know what they were telling people in cars in order to keep them detained as potential suspects at the gate, and I would be interested if anyone has any experiences to share. I do know this same thing happened last year - people detained at the gate for hours because another teen was 'abducted' of her own accord.

Who was it within the BMorg and/or law enforcement who made the call to activate the AMBER Alert system? They should come forward and explain themselves.
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Re: AMBER Alert abuse

Postby onzilla » Sun Sep 02, 2012 11:36 am

I am (one) of the pilots that was threatened with FAA action if i tried to take off and i am still absolutely fuming over this. I actually didn't wait to find out what happened but let us be clear on this point, your AMBER ALERT is now a complete joke for me. I will never associate this condition with the *request* of community to help solve a problem but rather a intrusive abuse of government in the private free rights of individuals. For the first time i can see the landscape from RUBY RIDGE.
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Re: AMBER Alert abuse

Postby Mosin » Sun Sep 02, 2012 12:52 pm

There will be two radically opposing views to follow in this thread. Those like me who are adamant that BM should be an 18+ event, and those who argue that we are simply anti-child playa hatas.

Now where did that popcorn emoticon go?
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Re: AMBER Alert abuse

Postby Bob » Sun Sep 02, 2012 1:32 pm

Mosin wrote:There will be two radically opposing views to follow in this thread. Those like me who are adamant that BM should be an 18+ event, and those who argue that we are simply anti-child playa hatas.

Now where did that popcorn emoticon go?


Call me capricious, but I'm going to assume you're a near-sighted jackass with no consciousness of institutional history. Larry brought his own kid out for years to mosh around with the DPW. Dozens of long-time staff and volunteers are in the habit of bringing their children, often the result of hooking up out there -- myself included, and I will punch you in the pants if you try to stand in the way of my daughter enjoying the New American Holiday. So good luck beating one of the perennial dead horses.

Missed this year, but for lack of first-hand information or public statements I'm going to assume the org and the cooperating agencies erred on the side of caution, and nobody died as a result, despite large amounts of sand reportedly lodged in certain private parts.

Camping at bunringman implicitly includes the risk of being detained as a result of a number of unforeseen circumstances -- weather, sheep crossing the highway, plague, liquefaction, bad acid, massive road accidents, and suchlike. Be prepared, jackasses.
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Re: AMBER Alert abuse

Postby littleflower » Sun Sep 02, 2012 1:36 pm

I am all for using the Amber Alert system in this case. Comparing a "runaway" in Black Rock City to a runaway in defaultia is absurd, for reasons which are very clear to anyone familiar with the sexually charged nature of BRC. I am sorry it caused some inconvenience to some people, but we are talking about a child here.

I do wonder about parents who take teenage girls to the event, though.
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Re: AMBER Alert abuse

Postby Mosin » Sun Sep 02, 2012 2:02 pm

Bob wrote:
Mosin wrote:There will be two radically opposing views to follow in this thread. Those like me who are adamant that BM should be an 18+ event, and those who argue that we are simply anti-child playa hatas.

Now where did that popcorn emoticon go?


Call me capricious, but I'm going to assume you're a near-sighted jackass with no consciousness of institutional history. Larry brought his own kid out for years to mosh around with the DPW. Dozens of long-time staff and volunteers are in the habit of bringing their children, often the result of hooking up out there -- myself included, and I will punch you in the pants if you try to stand in the way of my daughter enjoying the New American Holiday. So good luck beating one of the perennial dead horses.



Bob, please spare me the instuitutional history and unnecessary physical threats. My comment was intended to point out that we have been over this subject a million times before, and that no one's mind(s) will be changed by way of this thread. Your post was an instantaneous illustration. Have a nice day, Dad. :)
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Re: AMBER Alert abuse

Postby Bob » Sun Sep 02, 2012 2:09 pm

I recommend lemon juice or vinegar for removing that sand, btw.

Oh, and welcome to the eplaya, Bunnyalert & Onzilla. Feel free to introduce yourselves in the appropriate forum.
Last edited by Bob on Sun Sep 02, 2012 2:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: AMBER Alert abuse

Postby bunnyalert » Sun Sep 02, 2012 2:11 pm

Bob wrote:Camping at bunringman implicitly includes the risk of being detained as a result of a number of unforeseen circumstances ... Be prepared, jackasses.

Meaning, at Burning Man anyone can be detained for any reason, indefinitely, regardless of laws and their rights. Okay, Bob, where in the literature is this referred to? And what makes it legal?

littleflower wrote:I am all for using the Amber Alert system in this case.

Then you're in favor of using it falsely and undermining the system itself, putting children at risk. Okay then.
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Re: AMBER Alert abuse

Postby peyote2004 » Sun Sep 02, 2012 2:13 pm

I totally support the attendance of children at Burning Man. I think it's a great experience for them.

They used the amber alert properly. It should go into effect any time a child (someone under 18) goes missing in the city. It's better to experience a few hours of inconvenience, then risk some creap making it out of BRC with a child. Even if the kid has run away, it doesn't mean they're not in danger.

As far as the cancelled flights and people not being allowed to leave ... If it's such a big indisposition for people, Maybe in the future, they should look into allowing people to leave only after their cars and planes have been searched.
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Re: AMBER Alert abuse

Postby Bob » Sun Sep 02, 2012 2:14 pm

You're at a private event, first off. Call your lawyers.
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Re: AMBER Alert abuse

Postby littleflower » Sun Sep 02, 2012 4:08 pm

bunnyalert wrote:
littleflower wrote:I am all for using the Amber Alert system in this case.

Then you're in favor of using it falsely and undermining the system itself, putting children at risk. Okay then.


No, i am NOT in favor of using Amber Alerts falsely. A runaway in BRC is a very specific and unusual circumstance which in no way will undermine the system. Please try to remember that runaways in BRC are NOT at home.
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Re: AMBER Alert abuse

Postby uncle sticky » Sun Sep 02, 2012 4:17 pm

I read about this situation too, and my first response was:

I hope that young lady had it explained to her that there was a massive search operation launched, the city was shut down, and her selfish actions had a huge, negative impact on thousands of people and that she feels remorse for how her behavior affected innocent people.

Then I thought "she's fifteen, that's never going to happen."
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Re: AMBER Alert abuse

Postby MrMullen » Sun Sep 02, 2012 5:55 pm

I hope they threw the little shit out of Burning Man if she did not come up with a really good excuse. Shutting down outbound traffic so you can run off and get laid and drink is pretty lame. God forbid if you were with this girl and did not know she was 15, because nothing a guy likes to find out that his Playa hook up, who looked 20, was really 15.
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Re: AMBER Alert abuse

Postby gyre » Sun Sep 02, 2012 8:11 pm

If the only reason for the amber alert was someone missing, they didn't tell 50,00 people to ignore amber alerts, they told EVERYONE!


There is a huge difference between kids raised as part of the operations at burning man, and anyone wandering in with a ticket.

Plenty of people over eighteen can't take care of themselves.

On the other hand, i worked an llc shift out there with a kid that belongs to one of the volunteers.
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Re: AMBER Alert abuse

Postby Bob » Sun Sep 02, 2012 8:15 pm

Shut up, they're getting ready for the fucking Temple burn.
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Re: AMBER Alert abuse

Postby gyre » Sun Sep 02, 2012 8:42 pm

I think I'm going to miss that.
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Re: AMBER Alert abuse

Postby onzilla » Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:22 pm

"As far as the cancelled flights and people not being allowed to leave ... If it's such a big indisposition for people, Maybe in the future, they should look into allowing people to leave only after their cars and planes have been searched"

you are ignorant.. you bet your ASS it is 'indisposition' (whatever the hell you meant by that - imposition is i think what you meant)..

that is the whole point as to why this was so stupid, THEY WOULDN'T LET US LEAVE, EVEN IF I WAS A LONE INDIVIDUAL LEAVING WITH NOTHING BY MY UNDERWEAR. I asked.. several times.. i was threatened with having my PILOTS LICENSE TAKEN AWAY if i did not comply.

The BLM, or WHOEVER the hell was running the show on the Amber Alert, are completely useless. THEY NEED TO ANSWER FOR THIS OR IT WILL HAPPEN AGAIN.

AFTER TWO HOURS, they indeed let people go on commercial flights only after a clown BLM officer had gone to each aircraft to search it. THEY EVEN SEARCHED THE LUGGAGE. The BLM clown was also BRAGGING ABOUT HOW MANY PEOPLE THAT DAY HE HAD 'TASED' AND USED HIS 'NIGHTSTICK' ON FOR 'NON COMPLIANCE'.

If anyone can substantiate this behavior, i am willing to spearhead a class action lawsuit against the BLM.

I am so pissed about this i can hardly see straight. Anyone remember Ruby Ridge?
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Re: AMBER Alert abuse

Postby Bob » Sun Sep 02, 2012 10:53 pm

Feel free to introduce yourself in the "Introduce Yourself!" forum.

And thank you for your interest in Burning Man.
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Re: AMBER Alert abuse

Postby bunnyalert » Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:49 am

littleflower wrote:
littleflower wrote:No, i am NOT in favor of using Amber Alerts falsely.

Specifically, the AMBER Alert system is NOT to be activated for children who have simply gone missing. Abductions only.

"If there's no description of a suspect and/or abduction vehicle, do not activate the AMBER Alert system!" - BMorg and Pershing County Sheriff's Department should have this tattooed on their foreheads.

There is no exception for when a child is away from home, and no exception for Burning Man, and no exception for what you personally think is the right thing to do.
Last edited by bunnyalert on Mon Sep 03, 2012 3:13 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: AMBER Alert abuse

Postby bunnyalert » Mon Sep 03, 2012 3:06 am

Bob wrote:You're at a private event, first off. Call your lawyers.

Sir, you're the person who should call your lawyer before making a patently false legal statement.

Organizers of private events do not have the right to imprison ticket holders by preventing exit just because they think one person might be at risk. Even law enforcement does not have the right to detain a person unless they suspect the person has committed a crime. And you can't have 50,000+ suspects, but that's how everyone was treated.
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Re: AMBER Alert abuse

Postby bunnyalert » Mon Sep 03, 2012 3:58 am

onzilla wrote:THEY EVEN SEARCHED THE LUGGAGE.

In order for that not to be a violation of the 4th Amendment, they must have thought it was reasonable that you may have chopped Nikki up and was hiding her body parts in your luggage. Were you covered in blood?
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Re: AMBER Alert abuse

Postby onzilla » Mon Sep 03, 2012 4:57 am

We need a SPECIFIC NAME OF THE PERSON WHO INSTIGATED THIS FORM OF MARTIAL LAW.

Anyone?

All of our rights were violated.

A ACLU contact for burning man?
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Re: AMBER Alert abuse

Postby bunnyalert » Mon Sep 03, 2012 5:04 am

MrMullen wrote: God forbid if you were with this girl and did not know she was 15, because nothing a guy likes to find out that his Playa hook up, who looked 20, was really 15.

This is another very serious issue. One of the first things she must have been asked by law enforcement is, 'Where were you?" and "Who were you with?" If she spent the night at any camp with any guy, you can be sure the LEOs went to go 'question' him. If anyone has any information on anyone who was arrested for various charges related to hanging out with Nikki, please post it here.

Even by her parent's own admission, she looked like she could be in her early 20s. Do you really think any well-meaning guy on the playa who ever hooked-up with an adult-looking female ever asked for ID? The question of age in such a situation, as a rule, does not come up. There may very likely be a man (or men) in custody right now who is sitting in prison branded as a child rapist.

Image

CBSNews deleted this story once they realized it was bogus. This is proof that authorities knew they were dealing with a runaway, and not an abduction.
Image
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Re: AMBER Alert abuse

Postby bunnyalert » Mon Sep 03, 2012 5:11 am

onzilla wrote:A ACLU contact for burning man?

This is already a case for the ACLU. And the abuse of the AMBER Alert system is a case for the DOJ. You might know best, but this could also be a case for the FAA. To close an airport, there must be specific FAA guidelines that were almost certainly violated. Even a real AMBER Alert doesn't shut down airports. Here is the FAA information on the Black Rock City Airport: http://www.airnav.com/airport/88NV
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Re: AMBER Alert abuse

Postby gyre » Mon Sep 03, 2012 8:16 am

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Re: AMBER Alert abuse

Postby Sail Man » Mon Sep 03, 2012 12:18 pm

bunnyalert wrote:Specifically, the AMBER Alert system is NOT to be activated for children who have simply gone missing. Abductions only.

"If there's no description of a suspect and/or abduction vehicle, do not activate the AMBER Alert system!" - BMorg and Pershing County Sheriff's Department should have this tattooed on their foreheads.

There is no exception for when a child is away from home, and no exception for Burning Man, and no exception for what you personally think is the right thing to do.


As a parent who has taken a child to the burn 4 years in a row (starting at age 4) I have to agree with bunnyalert on this. From wikipedia, an AMBER alert is used for abductions only. The BORG, and/or the BLM should have solely activated the lost child protocol's. Yes, the result is nearly if not exactly the same, but it does not desensitize the people to the proper use of an AMBER alert.

Onzilla, I agree with you in that they should have allowed you to fly immediately once they had searched your plane. In fact, I do think that they should allow out-going vehicular traffic to depart the gates, only after they have thoroughly searched the vehicle, and only if each departing person can provide photo ID. Theoretically, the gates could be shut down for days looking for a needle in the haystack that can be BRC.

And yes, Onzilla, I do remember Ruby Ridge (and Waco for that matter) In fact, read an interview with Randy's daughter recently. Threeper here, if you understand that meaning, but I digress.....

I think this missing/lost child was more of a willful act on her part, and I also agree with the comment I read about throwing her ass out of BRC once she was found for her willful attempt to evade parent(s) etc and sadly, they would have had to go with her. She sounds like a spoiled little brat to me
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Re: AMBER Alert abuse

Postby Bob » Mon Sep 03, 2012 7:54 pm

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Re: AMBER Alert abuse

Postby gyre » Mon Sep 03, 2012 8:12 pm

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Re: AMBER Alert abuse

Postby ZaphodBurner » Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:16 pm

Let's all sue everybody and fuck up Burning Man for trying to make sure a teenager wasn't abducted.

The proper way to do this is exactly the way it's done at the Gate... Check every vehicle for stowaways or abductees.

They could have handled it better, but, lawyers? The ACLU? Fuck you. Take your whiney shit to Disneyland. I'm glad the girl was found safe, and she should be banned from Black Rock City until she's 21.
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Re: AMBER Alert abuse

Postby bunnyalert » Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:29 am

ZaphodBurner wrote:They could have handled it better, but, lawyers? The ACLU? Fuck you.

Having a mouth like a sailor does not help your argument.

There used to be a time when burners were fiercely protective of their civil liberties, but things evolve. The community would have revolted if a form of Marshall Law was instigated by the BMorg (“The system worked,” said Marian Goodell) and enforced by police, (tazing for noncompliance, illegal searches, and wrongful detainment, amongst other forms of threats and intimidation). Lawsuits would have already been filed. Heads would have rolled.

But now... Anytime an angry teen teen stomps off into the playa, it's time to crack skulls. If BMorg's missing child protocol also included tazing everyone with 'bunny' in their playa name, people now would gladly line up.
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