Disagreement With Pershing County Could Raise 2013 Costs

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Re: Disagreement With Pershing County Could Raise 2013 Costs

Postby jkisha » Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:26 am

Foxfur wrote:Here's a fantastic article on it with some depth:
http://www.courthousenews.com/2012/08/17/49413.htm

Definitely a good informative article.
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Re: Disagreement With Pershing County Could Raise 2013 Costs

Postby Thecatman » Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:56 am

Could move the event to the Smoke Creek Desert, just southwest of Gerlach and is in Washoe county.
As most know, Pershing County S.O. is not the only LEO there. Theres Washoe County S.O., NHP, BLM officers, my first year to attend was 2002 and I saw Lyon County S.O. which is the county I live in.
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Re: Disagreement With Pershing County Could Raise 2013 Costs

Postby CapSmashy » Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:31 am

Shambala wrote:At this point in time, the local economies depend on the money that the Burning Man Festival generates. It appears that Pershing County is attempting to drive over the golden goose with a police cruiser. It might be time to move this whole event to someplace fresh and new. Maybe something with rolling hills, trees and maybe a river flowing through. I'm ready! :D


Several problems here.

1. No big burns. Even if the area is not under wildfire conditions/burn bans, no "authority" figure will sign off on lighting multiple 100 foot tall structures on fire with big pyro displays in the middle of a forest or grassland area.

2. Ecological impact of 60k plus campers in an active, diverse wilderness ecosystem.

3. Critters. Snakes, bugs, furry things with teeth... The flood of raccoons alone going for trash would be horrific. Throw in some bears and it would get real exciting. Some e-tard would think the bear wants to be friends and try to give it a hug.
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Re: Disagreement With Pershing County Could Raise 2013 Costs

Postby David M » Sat Aug 18, 2012 10:34 am

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Re: Disagreement With Pershing County Could Raise 2013 Costs

Postby FIGJAM » Sat Aug 18, 2012 11:06 am

Scroll down to the 2nd paragraph from the bottom!

He should know better that to violate due process and conflict of interest statutes. :roll:
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Re: Disagreement With Pershing County Could Raise 2013 Costs

Postby pink » Sat Aug 18, 2012 2:13 pm

Fucking religious fucks.

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Re: Disagreement With Pershing County Could Raise 2013 Costs

Postby gaminwench » Sat Aug 18, 2012 2:34 pm

He's retiring at the end of his term... not soon enough!
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Re: Disagreement With Pershing County Could Raise 2013 Costs

Postby gyre » Sat Aug 18, 2012 2:51 pm

If he is not honest, it is probably easier than you would expect to find out.

More than once, I have reported one type of crime, only to have investigators find entirely new material.

Consider whether he is actually the problem though.
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Re: Disagreement With Pershing County Could Raise 2013 Costs

Postby Foxfur » Sat Aug 18, 2012 2:56 pm

gyre wrote:Consider whether he is actually the problem though.

Quit talking like a lawyer.
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Re: Disagreement With Pershing County Could Raise 2013 Costs

Postby gyre » Sat Aug 18, 2012 3:09 pm

Lawyers don't talk like that.

I'm looking at it as a political problem.

if you want to investigate him, i can tell you how.
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Re: Disagreement With Pershing County Could Raise 2013 Costs

Postby clocksnmirrors » Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:24 pm

ok so what are we lookin at here?

are we talking about a hoard of law enforcement officers with one at ever street corner?

are we expecting citations for simply walking around naked or having open alcohol containers?

how bad is this thing going to get?

i mean if they are charging $400k in advance for processing citations and arrests they must be planning to fuck this event in the ass with no lube.

someone assuage my fears!
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Re: Disagreement With Pershing County Could Raise 2013 Costs

Postby Foxfur » Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:22 pm

clocksnmirrors wrote:ok so what are we lookin at here?

are we talking about a hoard of law enforcement officers with one at ever street corner?

are we expecting citations for simply walking around naked or having open alcohol containers?

how bad is this thing going to get?

i mean if they are charging $400k in advance for processing citations and arrests they must be planning to fuck this event in the ass with no lube.

someone assuage my fears!

I foresee some punitive fuckery this year due to the suit....

Love your sigline BTW.
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Re: Disagreement With Pershing County Could Raise 2013 Costs

Postby clocksnmirrors » Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:48 pm

Foxfur wrote:I foresee some punitive fuckery this year due to the suit....


ok so that didn't make me feel any better at all :|

Foxfur wrote:Love your sigline BTW.

haha thanks! i love your photo! i look it and it makes me smile!
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Re: Disagreement With Pershing County Could Raise 2013 Costs

Postby FIGJAM » Sat Aug 18, 2012 6:06 pm

Most of the ruling does'nt go into affect till next year.

A doubleing of personel from one dept.

I think the stat was 1 leo per 530 something burners.

They just wanted $400,000 for something that only costs $125,000.
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Re: Disagreement With Pershing County Could Raise 2013 Costs

Postby clocksnmirrors » Sat Aug 18, 2012 6:47 pm

is that 1:530 stat from last year?

i imagine $400 k could buy a LOT more than 1:530.... certainly enough to make a point if they wanted to

i just don't like the sound of it. that kind of money and requested infrastructure adds up to a specific plan... that's the way i read it anyway.


of course i would LOVE to be wrong about this. i truly hope i am
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Re: Disagreement With Pershing County Could Raise 2013 Costs

Postby FIGJAM » Sat Aug 18, 2012 7:25 pm

The only change is one LEO dept went from 22 to 44, that's it.

The 1:530 is for this year.

The LEO are not there to screw with the event.

If they see something, they have to do something about it.

Most want to be there as much as we do. 8)
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Re: Disagreement With Pershing County Could Raise 2013 Costs

Postby wraith » Sun Aug 19, 2012 4:03 am

FIGJAM wrote:The only change is one LEO dept went from 22 to 44, that's it.

The 1:530 is for this year.

The LEO are not there to screw with the event.

If they see something, they have to do something about it.

Most want to be there as much as we do. 8)


That's the real takeaway here. The vast majority of the LEO presence out there is as happy to be there as we are. They're just around to keep bad things from escalating out of hand, and to act as evolutionary pressure to keep the people too stupid to understand 'don't commit drug offenses in public' from breeding.

This is just a specific set of local-government cocksleeves trying to force a 'moral' imperative based on their own beliefs, contrary to the law, onto an organization they dislike. This is what lawyers are for. :D
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Re: Disagreement With Pershing County Could Raise 2013 Costs

Postby AntiM » Sun Aug 19, 2012 7:54 am

The federal officers actually go on a wait list to serve at the event. I have had very nice chats, and have some fun BLM schwag. They truly do have a good time and don't want to bust people, this from the rangers I've spoken to.
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Re: Disagreement With Pershing County Could Raise 2013 Costs

Postby Kinetik V » Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:05 am

Pershing County's day of reckoning is long overdue. I hope this lawsuit is successful and that the county pays a steep price for having an out of control Sheriff's Department with questionable county commissioners running amuk.
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Re: Disagreement With Pershing County Could Raise 2013 Costs

Postby offarock » Sun Aug 19, 2012 11:20 am

I like to move it move it...
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Re: Disagreement With Pershing County Could Raise 2013 Costs

Postby some seeing eye » Sun Aug 19, 2012 11:34 am

The legal filing by the ORG is well worth the read for more detail. The ORG is slammed with event preparations. And not sure they will have time for a law enforcement update to this year's participants or the theme camp list.

Some of the Pershing County officials are especially focused on experiences by Burning Man participants under 18, and under 21. So it would make sense from their standpoint to focus strong enforcement on those laws, which are long standing (and IMO not controversial). That would include underage alcohol serving and consumption, would include guardians minding those under 18, and would include admission to any red light district - type events by underage individuals. If I were deputies under command of Pershing County, I would be decoying and stinging big time, as well as racking up as many citations and arrests as possible.
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Re: Disagreement With Pershing County Could Raise 2013 Costs

Postby AntiM » Sun Aug 19, 2012 11:44 am

I can easily foresee an 18+ event. The Utah event is already 18+ because otherwise we couldn't get a permit and insurance... on private land no less.

Folks, if you are not from one of the big Western states whose land is mostly owned by the federal government, be aware there's a movement to "take back" such lands from federal to state control. It is one of the big underlying issues which makes this much more about state politics than some backwater dogooders disliking our event. Move to another state? Same damn issues.
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Re: Disagreement With Pershing County Could Raise 2013 Costs

Postby stinkyfoot » Sun Aug 19, 2012 12:20 pm

AntiM wrote:I can easily foresee an 18+ event. The Utah event is already 18+ because otherwise we couldn't get a permit and insurance... on private land no less.

Folks, if you are not from one of the big Western states whose land is mostly owned by the federal government, be aware there's a movement to "take back" such lands from federal to state control. It is one of the big underlying issues which makes this much more about state politics than some backwater dogooders disliking our event. Move to another state? Same damn issues.



I really hope it wouldn't come to that. Then it would just be a big giant party in the desert and not a functioning temporary city at all. Kids are part of the great tapestry of what makes communities, even if there are proportionately fewer kids in BRC than in less harsh environments.

pink wrote:Fucking religious fucks.

Mormon.



Mormons do appear to have set themselves up as the great moral police of the Western half, considering all the bullshit shenanigans they pulled and their association with Proposition 8.
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Re: Disagreement With Pershing County Could Raise 2013 Costs

Postby some seeing eye » Sun Aug 19, 2012 12:31 pm

Thanks Mr Stinkyfoot. Every religious and spiritual group seeks to encourage families (and fertility!). Personally I believe people of all ages including under 18/21 should be exposed to BM values. Sure almost every religious group, even some considered conservative, would agree with 90% of the BM principals.
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Re: Disagreement With Pershing County Could Raise 2013 Costs

Postby clocksnmirrors » Sun Aug 19, 2012 12:38 pm

this is good conversation

it's about more than one event. it's about a line being drawn in the sand.



however did those tricky mayans see this one coming....
the forward thinking vs the backwards. the evolved vs the unevolved. the righteous vs the wicked. the sinner vs the saint.

i wonder what it will be like when the teaparty starts burning witches again.
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Re: Disagreement With Pershing County Could Raise 2013 Costs

Postby Eric » Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:11 pm

One quick point to note: the "$15 million" that goes to the local economy... other than the (now) $400k Pershing is taking off the top, most of that money is going to Washoe - Reno/Sparks, Fernley, Gerlach, Nixon... how many of us go through Lovelock & spend money? I know there's probably enough to notice if it stopped, but it's still probably the smallest amount that gets spent by Burners.

This could boil down to something as simple as Pershing wanting a bigger cut of the cash-cow since the actual event is held in their county, and it's a heavy-handed opening to the negotiations.
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Re: Disagreement With Pershing County Could Raise 2013 Costs

Postby clocksnmirrors » Sun Aug 19, 2012 2:03 pm

Eric wrote:This could boil down to something as simple as Pershing wanting a bigger cut of the cash-cow since the actual event is held in their county, and it's a heavy-handed opening to the negotiations.


i could totally understand if that was the motivation.

however

"'This was not Judge Wagner's first effort to drive the Burning Man Event out of Pershing County," the lawsuit states, noting that two different commissioners have said Wagner opposed the "expressive activities occurring at the event, and was pressuring them to void the 2005 and 2011 agreements and, through the imposition of huge fees and heavy regulation, effect the content of the Burning Man event and cause BRC to seek to relocate the Burning Man event out of Pershing County'"

what content is being targeted?
how hard are they planning to hit?

some seeing eye makes a reasonable guess, but what if it doesn't stop there?
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Re: Disagreement With Pershing County Could Raise 2013 Costs

Postby FIGJAM » Sun Aug 19, 2012 2:13 pm

Nothing is going to change this year! :roll:
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Re: Disagreement With Pershing County Could Raise 2013 Costs

Postby clocksnmirrors » Sun Aug 19, 2012 2:42 pm

FIGJAM wrote:Nothing is going to change this year! :roll:


don't get me wrong... i'm not looking for a three legged cat here



but just what makes you so sure nothing is going to change?
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Re: Disagreement With Pershing County Could Raise 2013 Costs

Postby FIGJAM » Sun Aug 19, 2012 4:51 pm

I read the entire artical and the lawsuit, plus I have some understanding of legalize.

The just of it is, that BM paid up under protest so the event could take place.

The only change this year is one LEO dept has 22 more officers.

If you scan through the lawsuit for the word "shall", and read what is around it, you will see that the judge vialated due process, conflict of interest, and the U.S. constitution.

Legal minds get real excited about those issues and the gears of "justice" are slow to turn.

Nothing drastic will happen because of that judge.

Burners on the other hand have drastic (and bacon) for breakfast and move on to fantastic and awsome for lunch and shnacks!!! :twisted:
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