Monkey Hut question

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Monkey Hut question

Postby JovReef » Wed Aug 15, 2012 9:40 am

We are building a couple of these this year. http://www.chromatest.net/Lovemonkey/

I have a question though. In the picture of the "finished product" monkey hut, it looks like there is PVC on both the inside and outside of the tarp. There is no mention of two layers of PVC and I know this can't be right ... so what is that? We are doing our test build this weekend so any info or advice would be helpful.
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Re: Monkey Hut question

Postby Bounce530 » Wed Aug 15, 2012 9:51 am

That's for the "optional shade flap"
link to instructions are at the bottom of the page you linked to.
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Re: Monkey Hut question

Postby JovReef » Wed Aug 15, 2012 9:53 am

OHHHHHH. Thanks a bunch for the quick response.
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Re: Monkey Hut question

Postby fresh » Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:46 pm

IMAG0300.jpg
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I will hop onto this thread to see if I can get a response. I have been working on this "FrakenMonkey Hut" for awhile now. My first epic fail was to buy a 10x10 Kodiak tent. I had already made a two spine MH, 15'x16'. Tent did not fit under hut. I altered the monkey hut by reducing width to 12 feet. I also used two 3' x 16' sections of shade cloth to compensate for the area not covered by my tarp. I am attaching pictures below. This is not 100% complete. I need more rope to do cross supports and want to do guy lines from the outer pvc ribs to playa. I am thinking of gluing shade material to tarp. Need to work on attaching tarp bottoms to playa, but would i need to have candycane under every grommet?? ACK I need to figure this out!!!

I did have issues with candy cane rebar not holding in the dirt area I am testing at. I am wondering how HABOOB proof this will be!!! I am considering scraping this whole project to avoid disaster, but have enough time and $$ invested that I want to make it work. Do you think this is a EPIC FAIL or not?



ANy advice would be greatly appreciated!!!
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Re: Monkey Hut question

Postby Drawingablank » Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:59 pm

We use a ratchet strap front and back and cap the rebar with a solar light. Photo below showing one of them from inside the hut:
Image

On the sides we thread a piece of rope through the grommets from one end to the other and use a bungee to attach the rope to a rebar next to the center poles on both sides. The bungee will allow it some flex, reducing the strain on the tarp.

In light of the heavier winds expected this year, I may also connect the ratchet straps to bungies to absorb some of the stress.

Edit: The main thing that concerns me with yours is that top piece of pvc appears to have quite a bend in it (the more radical the bend, the close it is to the breaking point). You might be better off with 3 equal lengths per rib.
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Re: Monkey Hut question

Postby fresh » Thu Aug 16, 2012 3:23 pm

Thanks!!! I was thinking about using the ratchet straps similar to yours, already got them as well as the solar lights!!!. Great idea about using bungees. The middle piece is 5' and i think gets the bend since there half of that piece is slid into the connectors. Would you think if I did 3 x 8' rib sections vs. 2 x 10' and 1 x 5' that it would be better?? It would be some work to do at this junction, but i already have the extra pvc.
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Re: Monkey Hut question

Postby Bexx » Thu Aug 16, 2012 3:37 pm

Wow, yours looks great! I've been off and on.. About adding another set of ribs on mine to lengthen it. As it is, my tent is going JUST fit under it.
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Re: Monkey Hut question

Postby Drawingablank » Thu Aug 16, 2012 3:41 pm

fresh wrote:Thanks!!! I was thinking about using the ratchet straps similar to yours, already got them as well as the solar lights!!!. Great idea about using bungees. The middle piece is 5' and i think gets the bend since there half of that piece is slid into the connectors. Would you think if I did 3 x 8' rib sections vs. 2 x 10' and 1 x 5' that it would be better?? It would be some work to do at this junction, but i already have the extra pvc.

Maybe try it with one rib to see hopw it affects the bend
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Re: Monkey Hut question

Postby maladroit » Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:39 pm

This is the Galaxy Hut: http://galaxybeing.com/galaxyhut/

It uses a 5' piece in the center, with screws to keep the side 10' pieces from sliding too far inside. You could still go with your two-spine setup, but replace the connectors and center piece of rib with one long pipe. That bendy thin portion in your photo worries me.

You'll definitely want at least one guy line from the center, it will pull the top down a little and reduce the amount of bending at that point.
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Re: Monkey Hut question

Postby MacGlenver » Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:04 pm

I have to say -- no offense to Love's Monkey hut, but the design where you make the spine out of multiple sections connected via those wedged in duct tape ends is terrible. We used it last year and the center spine kept coming out of the T and X connectors and falling on our heads. We had to tape the shit out of it to make it stay in, which is contrary to the point of the design. If you put a strap on the end ribs, it will surely pull the spine out of its connectors.

The better design is to take 10' sections of 1" PVC and join them with a 3 foot long, 1 & 1/4" sleeve. You duct tape around the 1" stuff about a foot from the end to prevent it from sliding too far into the wider 3' sleeve. If you want to be sure it wont slide out, add some duct tape once the 1" stuff is inside the thicker PVC. Rinse and repeat for several sections (up to 30 or 40 feet -- I've only tried up to 30' thought). Don't bother with the in-line ridge pole, just make a pole of the appropriate length using the method I described, and set it directly on top of the curved ribs. Use duct tape or bicycle tire wrapped cross-wise over the ridge pole and the rib to tie them together. MUCH sturdier and easier to build than Love's monkey hut, and almost no cutting except for the connector sleeves.

We're trying an EVEN easier method this year, which is using the 10' long schedule 40 wiring conduit, which has one bell-shaped end so you can just plug one piece into the other (taping if necessary).

The short version of the story is that if your design requires any T or X PVC connectors, then you're making it way too complicated AND it will be less sturdy.

Someone tell me I'm wrong if I am, but I've tested this design several times and seen a few people post something very similar. I've intended to post a proper writeup with pictures -- will get to it after Bman.
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Re: Monkey Hut question

Postby CrispyDave » Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:07 pm

MacGlenver wrote:I have to say -- no offense to Love's Monkey hut, but the design where you make the spine out of multiple sections connected via those wedged in duct tape ends is terrible. We used it last year and the center spine kept coming out of the T and X connectors and falling on our heads. We had to tape the shit out of it to make it stay in, which is contrary to the point of the design. If you put a strap on the end ribs, it will surely pull the spine out of its connectors.

The better design is to take 10' sections of 1" PVC and join them with a 3 foot long, 1 & 1/4" sleeve. You duct tape around the 1" stuff about a foot from the end to prevent it from sliding too far into the wider 3' sleeve. If you want to be sure it wont slide out, add some duct tape once the 1" stuff is inside the thicker PVC. Rinse and repeat for several sections (up to 30 or 40 feet -- I've only tried up to 30' thought). Don't bother with the in-line ridge pole, just make a pole of the appropriate length using the method I described, and set it directly on top of the curved ribs. Use duct tape or bicycle tire wrapped cross-wise over the ridge pole and the rib to tie them together. MUCH sturdier and easier to build than Love's monkey hut, and almost no cutting except for the connector sleeves.

We're trying an EVEN easier method this year, which is using the 10' long schedule 40 wiring conduit, which has one bell-shaped end so you can just plug one piece into the other (taping if necessary).

The short version of the story is that if your design requires any T or X PVC connectors, then you're making it way too complicated AND it will be less sturdy.

Someone tell me I'm wrong if I am, but I've tested this design several times and seen a few people post something very similar. I've intended to post a proper writeup with pictures -- will get to it after Bman.


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Re: Monkey Hut question

Postby MacGlenver » Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:12 pm

CrispyDave wrote:Can you come back here and post how it went after the Man burns?


Is that actual curiosity, or snark? Sorry, I spend so much time on here that I can't tell the difference sometimes and just assume snark :).
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Re: Monkey Hut question

Postby maladroit » Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:15 pm

The ribs pass right through the T and X joints in the original design, which is fairly reliable. The spine, as you mention, is only held in with a little friction and about 1" of connector. You have to use tight bungees or rope to pull the connectors together to have any hope of it remaining intact.

I like the in-line spine, so I'm keeping it...but I've modified the design a little. Just get some 1-1/2" pipe, cut 1 foot sections, and actually glue them into the connectors where the spine should go. Then you can slide 5-foot pieces of spine into those pipes. They won't slide off with 1 foot of interlock, rather than 1".

Edit: forgot to mention that you're not guaranteed to get a 1-1/4" pipe into a 1-1/2" pipe unless you find schedule 20 or class 200 pipes for the 1-1/2" section. The 1-1/4" pipe is a hair too big to slide in so you either have to sand it down a little (lot of work, nice and snug fit) or 1" pipe would probably still work fine, as it's just being used as a compression spacer.
Last edited by maladroit on Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Monkey Hut question

Postby CrispyDave » Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:17 pm

Just curiosity, Loves Hut has been around a long time. Improvements are good, just want to know how the improvements hold up under the expected weather this year.

This was posted Tuesday.

"Just had this relayed to me, comes from someone who's on-site at BRC...

[i]"Over a 100 degrees everyday by 3pm. At 7-8pm for the last 3 nights we have had 60+ mph winds with dust whiteout. The playa is getting scrubbed by these high winds. We lost 2 roof so far from the Temple camp kitchen/camp area. We are running out of 40x50' tarps !!!!! Be prepared - all the town locals & old burners say this is one of the highest wind years. We expect continued storms for the next 2 nights. We had a 20' tall 50x50' structure demolised last night & it was just substructure of 2x8" wood - ripped off the foundation. Not enough cross bracing yet - uugh."

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=53926&start=360
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Re: Monkey Hut question

Postby MacGlenver » Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:21 pm

maladroit wrote:Just get some 1-1/2" pipe, cut 1 foot sections, and actually glue them into the connectors where the spine should go. Then you can slide 5-foot pieces of spine into those pipes. They won't slide off with 1 foot of interlock, rather than 1".


Certainly will be more sturdy with the 1' sections to slide into on the spine interlock. Our spine last year with only 1" connection using duct tape friction/wedge method fell apart at least 10 times before we duct taped it together permanently (and even then you could see that it pulled out of the connector and was pivoting at the duct tape joint).

I think your design will hold -- just a bit more prep work than other methods. See you in the dust!
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Re: Monkey Hut question

Postby maladroit » Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:22 pm

Yeah it seems pretty silly to be talking about making kites with tarps and plastic to bring to a hurricane. I hoping it all comes down to excessive amounts of rebar and rope, because I can do that.
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Re: Monkey Hut question

Postby MacGlenver » Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:26 pm

CrispyDave wrote:Just curiosity, Loves Hut has been around a long time. Improvements are good, just want to know how the improvements hold up under the expected weather this year.

This was posted Tuesday.

"Just had this relayed to me, comes from someone who's on-site at BRC...

[i]"Over a 100 degrees everyday by 3pm. At 7-8pm for the last 3 nights we have had 60+ mph winds with dust whiteout. The playa is getting scrubbed by these high winds. We lost 2 roof so far from the Temple camp kitchen/camp area. We are running out of 40x50' tarps !!!!! Be prepared - all the town locals & old burners say this is one of the highest wind years. We expect continued storms for the next 2 nights. We had a 20' tall 50x50' structure demolised last night & it was just substructure of 2x8" wood - ripped off the foundation. Not enough cross bracing yet - uugh."

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=53926&start=360


Yeah I saw the same post from Trilo. I have the same opinion as maladroit. I dont think any half-assed monkey hut rigging is going to cut it based on what I hear about the wind this year. I'm hoping tons of extra rope & rebar will tie that bitch to the ground.
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Re: Monkey Hut question

Postby maladroit » Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:31 pm

I think that any design relying on duct tape should be tossed out at this point.
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Re: Monkey Hut question

Postby CrispyDave » Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:31 pm

Im bringing 300' of rope and a bunch of extra sections of rebar just in case. If it gets bad my camp will at least tied down. Not sure how habitable it will be but I will have enuf stuff to tie it up tite.
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Re: Monkey Hut question

Postby MacGlenver » Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:33 pm

maladroit wrote:Edit: forgot to mention that you're not guaranteed to get a 1-1/4" pipe into a 1-1/2" pipe unless you find schedule 20 or class 200 pipes for the 1-1/2" section. The 1-1/4" pipe is a hair too big to slide in so you either have to sand it down a little (lot of work, nice and snug fit) or 1" pipe would probably still work fine, as it's just being used as a compression spacer.


I was proposing sliding the 10 foot 1" pipe into a 1 & 1/4" pipe, not 1 & 1/4 into 1 & 1/2 (never tried that one). I've done the 1" into 1 & 1/4" several times and its a great fit.

Edit: One positive to using the 1" piping is that it gives you more tension on the rebar so that it doesnt pull off as easy. I havent done 1 & 1/4" pipe on 1/2 inch rebar, but I expect there would be quite a bit more wiggle room, to the point where it would jeopardize the structure. Never seen anyone propose using 1 & 1/4" except for much bigger structures though.
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Re: Monkey Hut question

Postby FIGJAM » Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:42 pm

I wondered how you could guy the end arches without them slipping off.

Put a X connector instead of a T where the spine goes into the end arches and run a rope THROUGH the length of the spine.

Tension the ends to the ground stakes and the spine could'nt come apart. 8)
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Re: Monkey Hut question

Postby maladroit » Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:57 pm

It just seems like such a difficult task to push a rope.

The X connectors are blocked anyway, as the ribs pass right through them.
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Re: Monkey Hut question

Postby MikeGyver » Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:08 pm

FIGJAM wrote:I wondered how you could guy the end arches without them slipping off.

Put a X connector instead of a T where the spine goes into the end arches and run a rope THROUGH the length of the spine.

Tension the ends to the ground stakes and the spine could'nt come apart. 8)


Same plan, but I drilled holes in my T connectors to run the rope through since id already bought them. Put the rope through before you put it together, after hearing all the rumors about high winds I'm going to set up my hut again tomorrow and Fortify it more. Thinking about drilling holes in the pipes right before the connectors and going to run wire through them to tie it together instead of bungee cords.
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Re: Monkey Hut question

Postby maladroit » Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:11 pm

PVC is not a structural material...the only reason it survives is that it flexes in the wind like a reed. Wire sounds like it would encourage a stress fracture, especially since these structures are put together with really long lever arms and small contact areas.
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Re: Monkey Hut question

Postby Jackass » Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:13 pm

I'd be careful drilling too many holes, it may weaken that piece.
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Re: Monkey Hut question

Postby Bounce530 » Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:22 pm

A simple solution to the slipping issue is to run some screws into the junctions. I've done that for the last couple years with my hut, doesn't take but a minute, and theres no slipping or pieces popping out.
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Re: Monkey Hut question

Postby MikeGyver » Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:22 pm

Wouldn't really be taking out any flexibility just making sure the pipes don't slip out of the joints. Kinda like this crappy paint. Red being the pipes, black is the X and grey is the wire.

Image

*EDIT* Screws would be a much simpler idea but I don't have a cordless drill anymore or plan to bring a generator so corded drill is out too
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Re: Monkey Hut question

Postby maladroit » Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:24 pm

One of those red pipes should be going all the way through, or else you're doing it wrong.
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Re: Monkey Hut question

Postby MikeGyver » Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:27 pm

Apparently I'm doing it wrong, which one is supposed to be going through? All the ones I've seen are completely split.
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Re: Monkey Hut question

Postby MacGlenver » Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:27 pm

Here's the best explanation I've found for the design that I intend to use. My design is basically the final picture in the lower right. No ridge pole -- just two straps along the center, guyed down. The ridge pole (which isnt used in my design) essentially only serves to keep the ribs evenly spaced, so as long as you tie the lengthwise straps at each rib and then guy it down with a good amount of tension, the ribs cant fall in or out.

http://www.toad.com/gnu/clifs-shade-structure.html

Again, my rule is: no T or X connectors, and if you're doing a spine/ridge pole, just lay it on top of the ribs (whats the point of doing otherwise?).
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