Suicidal Tendencies

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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby delle » Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:21 am

Fuck.

I helped my OWN damned self with that.

Words surprise me.
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby Lassen Forge » Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:41 am

Wow, I like that one, Delle... well said. I had a therapist who once told me to do the same thing - amazing how much crap it cleared out of my once cluttered and spinning mind.

I don;t know that covering the white noise works - at least for me. For, see, if that white noise generator falters (as it does, sometimes) then the voices and messages and crap come back harder... louder... more demanding.

I had trust issues as well, bb, for a long time... I still hold stuff tight to the vest, and for reasons I can't say, probably will. But I will open up a bit of my past here, of for no other reason than you mean a fuck of a lot to me, bb (whether you know it or not)... I don't know if it's because we share the same initials, or it was that trip taking the roamanoff MkI to the playa or what... but you always have a spot in my heart. Anyway...

I also had fleeting issues of doing severe and irreprable self harm decades ago. It was a culmination of many years of all kinds of fucked up shit - some was my own doing, some was because of choices I made, some were that fucking voice that kept coming back when the white noise generator shut itself off, some were circumstances of fate, job, and pneuma, some were because of the misdiagnosis and misprescription of doctors to "fix" shit, when they had no idea what they were doing. (Would YOU have a plumber working on YOUR maserati?)

Anyway, I white-knuckled the shit - I tried all kinds of self help shit - Groups, All the Bill W stuff, reading, self-analyisis, doing the call a friend shit, etc... and t got worse and worse. No fucking shit, worse. Then a friend (one of the few I had left) suggested a therapist. This woman had many, many issues of her own, but she was the one who actually got me to realize a simple truth - it's not you that's deciding to end it all to end it all, it's your parameters and shit that are causing you to spiral down... so, fucking, change your parameters.

I did. The main thing the headshrinker did for me was help me sort out the shit and find out who the hell I was, and assemble me from the disjointed facets driving me to insanity. Some of those facets still show - Yeah, I can be blunt, I tend to say shit that people don't like to hear on occasion, I can run at 115% output on ideas and thoughts and projects and shit, and some even see edges when I do Apok (which is why I am **really** careful what I do and don't in camp) that are, um, not very nice... but the thing is, while way back then it was all serious shit 110% of the time, it's now something I loook back on and even draw strrength from. The one thing I found - when I started the reassembly, all desire to do damage went away. I didn't know why then, but I do now - because it was an effort to shut down the incongruity of my psyche - call it the nice young country girl meets urban stone cold killer syndrome meets analytical whizkid meets psychotic druggie meets reverend mother meets disconnected mom meets hormonally fucked up medical experiemnt meets hero lifesaver meets ... well, you get the idea. Once I didn't have to force a full system shutdown - by doing this "reassembly" - my entire parameter of life changed. Just like (**snap**) that.

Thing is... while those aspects of me are still there, they don't run my life. If they did, I wouldn't be here for the past, hell, 20 or so years. So... I'm gonna tell you (because I do love ya, dude), one, giving up the ship sucks, because even tho when blinded by that thing that put you in a shithole spot to let your committee work overtime, that crap that you wake up to and go to bed with is a fucking ILLUSION, trying to keep you from finding the way to put YOUR facets together, to make you efel like shit really IS worth living. Because, even tho you are being blindfolded (and blindsided) by this one terminator facet, it itself is only one little tiny insignificant speck of this huge awesomeness you are. A lot of us here know you, not just on line, but personally... and see it, we KNOW the awesomeness of you, and honestly, well... it would really, really fucking suck not to have you there to hope that we could keep doing TITITD we do... because now that I know you, I can't see a burn without you. And that, my love, ain't no shit.

I've said my piece. I've prolly said too much. But there it is. Naked as my tits on the playa. Bared for you. ;)

sus
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby theCryptofishist » Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:55 am

Nicely said, Sus Anne. And Delle, too. I journaled for years. Can't find the time any more, but I became myself there in so many ways.
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby delle » Wed Jul 18, 2012 4:39 am

I started wanting to quote parts of BBSue's post... to say THIS. and THIS. and OMG. THIS!!! Then I realized I'd end up quoting pretty much the whole thing.

I love how candid.... how REAL it all is.

I love the ship reference. (How many of us could use steering lessons. I know I have to be very conscious of my steering every day to keep that ship off the rocks.)

I especially love the word ILLUSION. The all-important reminder that although our minds dictate our daily dealings and feelings, we ARE our minds' masters afterall, and although it's often forgotten, they are not as rigid as they appear, but malleable and completely re-trainable.

But it's the summit that took first place. The :shock: :lol: :shock: SUMMIT :shock: :lol: :shock: .

call it the nice young country girl meets urban stone cold killer syndrome meets analytical whizkid meets psychotic druggie meets reverend mother meets disconnected mom meets hormonally fucked up medical experiment meets hero lifesaver meets ...


I started thinking about who would be at my own summit. It was a motley crew indeed. That they now mostly live in harmony is.... well.... pretty freaking miraculous really.

But not surprising. I'm no longer surprised by what we can do with our bits and pieces. Assuaged and grateful yes... but not surprised (any more).

Anyhow....

...It appears I couldn't get away with just saying BRAVO, and had to quote a thing or two anyway. Its just that every word struck a chord. And the whole post sang to me. And that song will now colour my day differently.

So thank you!!!!
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby gyre » Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:54 am

Never give up, Delle.
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby dana » Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:55 pm

Venturing back after the dust has cleared and reluctant to stir the turds after some really nice posts by Delle and BB Sue. This is not an easy post so feel free to skip over it if so inclined, but I can't just sit back and say nothing in response to some true nastiness.

First to MA - "know it all"? Well at least my patients dearly hope that I am and I do my best to fill that role. Seriously MA, you would rather hear from someone who doesn't know shit?? I definitely feel the pride of accomplishment for the knowledge and abilities I've gained over the years.
But what the fuck??!!!! What motivates that kind of pissy drama (and does it actually have something to say about the topic on hand)? More than just what Delle said about censorship. Pondered it, finally just comes down to this:

The Drama Triangle
. Dramas are created and sustained by people who exchange the satisfaction of adult-thinking and accountability for the drama of powerlessness, blame and rescue.

a. Victims attract rescuers and both need someone to blame.

b. Rescuers need a victim to feel worthwhile.

c. Unwitting rescuers are “do-gooders” without boundaries.

d. Persecutors always find their victims.

e. Unwitting persecutors can be people simply inviting accountability – but become labeled “the bad guy” for interfering with someone’s intent to avoid accountability.

(underline added for obvious reasons)
http://www.tobilytle.com/drama.html
Its one of many mind traps - the hypnotic games that people can't stop playing because they're endlessly self reinforcing. Like the victim who literally needs to sort everyone into a potential rescuer or persecutor. Question or challenge them - you are instantly their next persecutor.


I worked for over 10years as an emergency physician and I managed many suicide cases. Pills, poisons, slashes, and one 9ml round that took part of a young man's brain. (They all lived.) I've spent a lot of time delving into this stuff. Mind traps have everything to do with suicide. What's that quote - "If you gaze into the abyss..."
So how to pull back from the abyss? Delle had part of the answer.

delle wrote:I But they’re YOUR boxes. What they contain is YOURS, and they’re only as big as what they contain. Their contents may be poison, but for some reason you’ve decided them precious and – although you aren’t aware of it – you’re guarding them fiercely and feeding them daily. We really have to look at how they’re being fed.

What I see in your future is you dancing freely in an unencumbered room – doors and windows open allowing sweet breezes and love to float in and out easily. A pride welling up from within that you DID this thing. You MADE these changes that allowed you this freedom.

The first step is to look at it all honestly and start unraveling it in a manageable way.



You have a gift for describing it in exactly the same kinds of metaphor that the subconscious mind immediately grasps. The subconscious is immensely powerful because it collects all of the various programs you tell it and makes sure that you will have a reality consistent with that - no matter how dark or light, it just gives you exactly what you tell it. Literally creating a whole reality around you that constantly reinforces itself because you only see more of the same. Depending on the patient I try to get them to work with their subconscious programming. That kind of writing and then burning that Delle mentioned can be really powerful too. It gives the message to your SC to brings things up and then be done with them. It speaks also to fire/passion - a kind of transmuting energy, changing a trap into freedom or just burning off things like the residue of rage.
If I have a patient who is open to it I encourage them to do all kinds of meditations with visualization and the total intensity of their feelings. Meditation gets you that much closer to you subconscious and makes the new programming easier to take hold. If you can relax with it you may also find that your SC gives you right back these really amazing symbolic messages that may speak to things you need to face. Plus reprogramming belief systems, on an on...





So here's a weird thought - maybe all that drama was actually a difficult gift to explore the terrain more easily???
(and when I really let that idea play inside I don't feel so angry....)
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby maryanimal » Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:05 pm

Delle and BBS...absolutely beautiful and inspiring!

dana...After reading your posts thoroughly, I've come to find myself in the wrong. I understand what you were trying to add to the conversation. And I would like to apologize to you from my heart. I'm not one to judge anyone, however I judged you unfairly. when I started this thread, I needed some help with a friend. And since then people have come to this thread for the same. Including myself, and no judgement has/had been passed.

Please accept my apology in the spirit of which it is intended.
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby dana » Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:50 pm

maryanimal wrote: to you from my heart. .



Thanks Mary. That sure hit my heart.

What a day this was! I just finished a job today in SoCal working at a homeless ctr. clinic for 9 mos. So much love and gratitude was given to me.... and that's part of my trap - learning to really let it in. (not victim but martyr for me.)
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby delle » Sat Jul 21, 2012 6:44 am

I wonder, dana, given that last little bit of information, if you'd have a suggestion or two for this revelation from the Fuck file. :

Box Burner wrote:Well fuck it all. In about 2 weeks I will not have a place to stay. So I am going to have to prep my car for living in. Fortunately it is a windstar and I can throw out the back seats and put a mattress in for sleeping. Don't know where I will park for the night each night. The only (relatively) cheap camping is about a 2 hr drive from work.



...because there's a huge shift in priorities just now.


(and my apologies to BB for dragging them in here, but it seemed wise for the whole picture not to be cut up into a jigsaw.)
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby dana » Sat Jul 21, 2012 10:54 am

Yeah that sure doesn't help when the basic necessities fall out.
Box Burner might be able to get housing at a homeless shelter. Some can be a little grim. The one I was at was pretty amazing.
Also you know.... simply asking friends. (I once stayed with one of my friends after a bear demolished the trailer I was living in.) Hopefully its not hard to ask? Some of us tend to isolate ourselves and asking for help is like pulling teeth.

Although something tells me that the real answer is in the bigger picture, like what we discussed in PM about attracting realities.


I'm working on some thoughts for a post that might be helpful to you Box, if you'd be interested. What I'm thinking about is the process of truly facing the abyss, going to the bottom and answering the questions that lie there. Which then frees it up to face the other direction and start climbing out of the abyss. I talked to Delle about part of how that worked for me. As they say, "a game changer."
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby dana » Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:12 pm

delle wrote:(and my apologies to BB for dragging them in here, but it seemed wise for the whole picture not to be cut up into a jigsaw.)


I guess I should also mention that we may be stepping over the line a bit here in regard to that thing about rescuers and boundaries that I underlined above. Sometimes the distinction on that line is subtle, sometimes dramatic. permission, vulnerability....
The easiest way to handle it is just to ask.
And the only bright line is never trying to shield someone from facing them-self.

(but you're probably like me - better to ask forgiveness after than permission first. :twisted: )
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby delle » Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:27 pm

So I opened this up on my ebook while sitting by a pool, hours away from being homeward bound and close to my computer.

Being unable to sign in, let alone type anything, I hadn't yet read your PM, dana, and I was more than a little confused by your reference to it.....

Now that I've read it, I'm more than a little enlightened, and I do thank you for that.

It occurs to me that as one of "the damaged", I am particularly drawn to certain concepts and information. Although I don't normally seek it out, my ears do perk when something particularly à propos is thrown my way, and alot you had to say about the Martyr and the Magician really rang true to me. I thank you for the discussion. It helps.

As for permissions vs. apologies mentioned above, I am guilty, guilty, guilty. I do it all the time and SHOULDN'T. Sometimes tho, in my quest to be helpful, I just grab onto an available resource and shove it in the needed direction. It's sloppy technique at best. Potentially wrong and harmful at worst. I'll try to be more mindful.....

I just want BB to have a better day. A MUCH better day.

Like, NOW.
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby Box Burner » Sun Jul 22, 2012 1:21 am

Thank you all for your concern. Just knowing that you care does help. I am, at present, too busy to think about it. So I guess for now the crisis has passed.
Dance in the heart of chaos. . . . .

ὁ δὲ ἀνεξέταστος βίος οὐ βιωτὸς ἀνθρώπῳ
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --- Σωκράτης

.
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby Box Burner » Sun Jul 22, 2012 1:27 am

Oh and Dana, I would like to see your thoughts.
Dance in the heart of chaos. . . . .

ὁ δὲ ἀνεξέταστος βίος οὐ βιωτὸς ἀνθρώπῳ
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --- Σωκράτης

.
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby Box Burner » Sun Jul 22, 2012 2:16 am

Just so you all know, I am going to be going off line in a couple of days. This computer is being shipped off to get a new motherboard. It keeps crashing. By the time it comes back I will be in my car and desktop computers just don't work that well in a car. Hopefully I can find a laptop cheap.
Dance in the heart of chaos. . . . .

ὁ δὲ ἀνεξέταστος βίος οὐ βιωτὸς ἀνθρώπῳ
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --- Σωκράτης

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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby delle » Sun Jul 22, 2012 6:25 am

Fuck.

What happened to "two weeks"???

I'm not sure dana will get to this in time, as he's driving back to Colorado today.

Please consider doing the following before shipping the computer off, or leaving the house:

If you haven't already, please check out the Salt Lake Community Action Program site. I followed a few links and found an emergency number which may help you get headed in the proper direction for help in finding someplace to land.


"If you need to find low-cost housing in Salt Lake County, call the "Housing Outreach Rental Program" at (801) 359-2444. Elsewhere, refer to the last few pages of this Handbook for organizations and phone numbers.

Low-income people can obtain information about government assisted housing or a list of available subsidized projects at the local Community Action Program and housing authorities. Phone numbers are listed in the back of this Handbook.


The list for resources ("the last few pages (or back) of this Handbook") is found at the bottom of this page: http://www.utahlegalservices.org/public/self-help-webpages/utah-renters-handbook/?searchterm=handbook Unfortunately I don't feel I have the time to research the various areas and pull those which might be most useful to you in terms of proximity, this now having reached an imminence which precludes that kind of thing, and it's formatting doesn't transfer here well. You may want to print this out before going.

"Help is available, including assistance with the following: legal services, shelter, temporary housing, emergency food, federal food programs, medical and dental services, financial aid, showers and laundry, substance abuse and detoxification services, child care programs, child abuse protection programs, veterans' services, job services and training, adult education, clothing and identification cards. To get any of the above services, call the Resources below. FOR THE MOST UP-TO-DATE INFORMATION, CALL 211 or 1-888-826-9790 Their website is http://211utah.org/."

I wish you luck and God Spede, and hope that you will keep in touch during this adventure -- which ends with you landing in a much better place. Do try to keep the faith and an open heart, and PLEASE let us know how things develop.
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby delle » Sun Jul 22, 2012 6:45 am

Oh, wait.

I totally misread your message as you were walking out the door TODAY.

Is there a way to perhaps.... NOT send your computer off for maintenance just yet -- it being kind of important to you at the moment -- and perhaps useless to you for a time once fixed. You could always get it fixed once settled. Lugging it around broken or fixed doesn't change its weight or the space it'll take in your car.

I would be happy to contribute towards a used laptop with wifi. At this point it seems a NECESSARY TOOL rather than just entertainment. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who feels this way, or who would be willing to help get one in your hands.

Are you hooked up with Paypal?
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby AntiM » Sun Jul 22, 2012 6:56 am

I have a netbook I don't use. You'd have to come get it though.
These are not my fuckos.
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby dana » Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:39 am

Cool Box Burner. I'm working on a very long post for you in particular and maybe for others to consider some really crazy and interesting ideas about causality - (ie. why does bad shit happen, can we turn that around so that more good stuff happens.)
And in the light of all that I just want to thank all of you that are focused on this thread right now (even the ones who recently beat the shit out of me :roll: I'm serious - I got to look at something incredibly powerful out of that. ) Being intensely involved in the questions posed on this thread and strengthening my response has dramatically shifted my life over the last few days. A lot of really cool stuff has just started "coming out of the blue". I would like to strengthen those changes by writing about it. (sort of an announcement to the universe - "This is how its going to be from now on", and the universe says back "OK, we'll play along with that program and when it comes down to it we're all kind of happy you dropped that program that required us to give you a lot of grief. That was really painful to have to do, but we just give you whatever you ask. And we kind of suspected you might drop it eventually...."

So Box I am getting on the road as Delle mentioned. I will flesh this all out more when I get back to Colorado. As I mentioned earlier there was a time when I seriously considered suicide (mostly just as the dark thoughts that come when shit happens and I felt so hopeless, but I did approach the edge a bit close at times.)
What was maybe most difficult is that this all came after I had gotten fairly involved in my own spiritual search (exploring self, reality, causality, etc.) After some fantastic initial changes this darkness seemed to close in. (Now I think I was being given the opportunity to face myself more powerfully and it wasn't going to go away until I faced certain things and healed them in myself.)
OK, so here I am involved in my spirituality and having these suicidal thoughts. I have this one very unusual friend who has had a dramatic impact on my spiritual search. They have the unique ability to see into me and my issues and to call my bullshit even though I had never mentioned them, if you can believe that's possible. So I never even came close to suggest anything about suicide to them, but one day they just said to me - "If you really believe you are a victim of circumstance, go ahead and put a bullet through your head. But if you believe that you create your own reality, get to it and start making the changes that will pull you out of that pit." (only slightly paraphrased) That was very stark, but spot on. It still took several years to really sort through all of that, but it sure made a difference in my life to face the responsibility of creating it, all of it. I think I may have put the icing on that cake over the last few days.

So what I'm asking you to do for a couple days Box is to just ponder that choice and that belief.
And remember that first thing I quoted from Delle when I first jumped on this thread "someone had my back that day". Well Box, a whole lot of someone's have your back right now!! Just keep pondering the fact that you are surrounded by phenomenal amounts of love right now and ponder whether love may be an incredible creative force for change that you set yourself up to explore in dealing with a really difficult point in your life. (Pondering it bit by bit, like nibbling away at a giant cookie...) Another thing to ponder since you said you have trust issues - your ability to ask for help and to really lean on it when it comes. (how does that feel, what comes up?)

Oh and by the way, it sounds like you may have a lot of the same issues I had to face (still face in new aspects) and if that's true and I'm able to show you a really clear map of how I got out of that pit it could be fairly helpful.

Love
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby Box Burner » Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:42 am

Well I have not shipped off the Computer yet. As you can see. Probably be on line until friday ???

Thanks for all the support.
Dance in the heart of chaos. . . . .

ὁ δὲ ἀνεξέταστος βίος οὐ βιωτὸς ἀνθρώπῳ
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --- Σωκράτης

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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby gyre » Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:53 am

Hang in there, Box Burner.
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby Box Burner » Tue Jul 24, 2012 2:26 am

delle wrote:Oh, wait.

I totally misread your message as you were walking out the door TODAY.

Is there a way to perhaps.... NOT send your computer off for maintenance just yet -- it being kind of important to you at the moment -- and perhaps useless to you for a time once fixed. You could always get it fixed once settled. Lugging it around broken or fixed doesn't change its weight or the space it'll take in your car.

I would be happy to contribute towards a used laptop with wifi. At this point it seems a NECESSARY TOOL rather than just entertainment. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who feels this way, or who would be willing to help get one in your hands.

Are you hooked up with Paypal?


No. I think paypal requires credit cards to sign up and I don't have any.


AntiM wrote:I have a netbook I don't use. You'd have to come get it though.


I will take you up on that if I can't get anything better. I am losing my eyesight and using a 27 inch monitor and have to sit close and use readers to see it. At work I have a 17" monitor and I have to strain to read it. Even with the readers. Without the readers I can't even read my 27" monitor at all.
Dance in the heart of chaos. . . . .

ὁ δὲ ἀνεξέταστος βίος οὐ βιωτὸς ἀνθρώπῳ
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --- Σωκράτης

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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby delle » Tue Jul 24, 2012 4:07 am

Well Hi there! Glad to see you're still connected.

Have you called the center? Got any leads there?
Or from the grocery stores, etc?
Here's a link to an "Affordable Housing Database" in your general area: http://findhousing.utah.gov/listings.do
The previous page mentioned that many of the rents are on a sliding scale -- rent to income.

Don't just presume that all rent-to-income housing is shit.... I lived in a rent-to-income house for 16 years. It was a blessing and a joy for the most part, allowing me a freedom I wouldn't otherwise have had when the kids were small. Once the crisis was over, I stayed because I wanted to...... becoming VP and Head of the Selection committee for a good chunk of that time. We had a nice little community going.

The important thing is to get on those lists pronto. You can always refuse, but at least you'll have options.

If you do want to fill out any applications, Please PM me. I know what catches their eye, and can help you fill them out effectively.


------

Seems to me all you need for Paypal is a bank account. The process takes a few days tho, as Paypal "pings" your account with a tiny deposit to make sure its yours.

Do take AntiM up on her offer for a notebook tho.... it seems a perfect stopgap before getting settled.

We've got to get you settled!!!
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby gyre » Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:06 am

My friend has been looking at a magnifying reader that goes over books, etc., plugs into a tv, or computer.
Unfortunately the computer co-op I volunteer with doesn't get that stuff.
They want $150 for it currently.

I can probably get you a thin monitor around 19" if it would help.
Plug into the laptop with it.
If you ask around out there, those sizes aren't hard to find free though.
We don't get bigger stuff.

When you get settled, light engine projectors work fine with computer input usually.
I was offered a 65 inch lcd based for $60 recently.
A bigger monitor would help with my eyesight too, though not as bad as yours, clearly.
I've seen front screens go free even.
Some are very portable, as in tiny.
There's one now built for ipods on cl.
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby dana » Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:11 pm

Holy shit. This is turning into a book! I started out asking the seemingly simple question of how I went from the possibility of suicide to where I am now. Then suddenly this huge vista opened up and I got this amazing sense of all these various steps of how I got from point to point, with so many things coming into such clarity. I've been writing frantically. (seriously considering a book.) It was feeling a little manic there for a bit, but things have slowed down. Somehow I thought I could barf it all up here, but I'll have to pare it down and think it best to take it off thread for you Box Burner if you'd like to talk through the privacy of PM's. Not sure what else I should say publicly, so I may be almost done here.

Some thoughts I've been pondering this morning:
I realized that I genuinely had to face suicide. It's part of how I got to where I am now (which feels pretty cool and has just opened up to even more possibilities.) Honestly It was a tough way to face things (and damn glad no damage to myself), but it did force me into a much more intense confrontation with myself. Some people have wondered whether there is cowardice there in suicide. Cowardice is blind conformity to convention. I think there's actually a kind of courage there, in being willing to take it to the edge (hopefully not over.) Anyway, that may be something that lifts some of the heaviness off of it for you BB. It may lift off some of the stigma you may be feeling when you admit the question of suicide and some of the heaviness associated with the seeming pull of inevitability - to just let it in that you're trying to figure something out of value.
You know that quote from Nietzsche - "if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss will gaze into you". At first I thought of only the singular negative meaning, but now I think it might be a metaphor with multiple possible meanings. Maybe it also has a positive meaning - if you gaze long enough (with curiosity) into the mystery of existence you will be suddenly pulled into it. And then you will have to learn how to function there. That certainly seems like a good description of what happened to me. I'm generally reluctant to admit it, but when I nearly got snuffed kayaking I was saved by a miracle. I think I've heard of various people saying that when they went to that edge, something mysterious pulled them back. Delle said something to that effect. I really think that for many of us, at some level of our being, we need to face that mystery and that level of challenge, so we can find a kind of courage and greater potential which will then catapult us forward (and out of the abyss.)

So here's the super short synopsis of what I figured out was going on when I was thinking of suicide and how I turned that around. The whole thing was like this dark whirl pool that was pulling me down and showing me the seeming inevitability of things continuing to get worse and worse until suicide seemed like a good option. But lining that whirl pool and powering it was a bunch of things that I needed to face and either heal outright, or heal my relationship to them or to turn them around so I was using their energy and function in a whole new way. At the bottom of that was the question I already posed - helpless victim vs conscious creation. I think this is how it tends to work for people - they get pulled down, and start abandoning more and more of their resources as the view gets worse and then at some point they go over the edge or "something" (choice at some level) pulls them back and they turn the thing around. Some seem to hover somewhere on the edge of it, never completely answering the reasons why they got pulled down in the first place. I think the things which line it/power it and the questions at the bottom will differ for different people. For me it was all sorts of things, but most prominent was victim/martyr, faulty beliefs about how the world works, something called "giving your power away to the illusion (complex subject), brutal self-isolation, questions of self worth (with an absurdly deep level of shame), and the paralysis of despair, probably others... Each thing needed to be answered in some way. Martyr and dealing with the illusion was the most powerful drivers. Answering the inherent question of martyr was what turned it all around. (Its another complex subject which I may write about later. Kind of central.) And when you're turning it around you're just trying to shift it a few degrees at a time, but not stopping until you're heading in the opposite direction. I thought of a very cool meditative visualization around this to get the subconscious on board with the changes if anyone's interested. Like I said before, I do encourage my own patients to try doing various kind of visualizations. A lot of them have a hard time trying to learn how, but some really dig it.
So another thing BB that might help to lighten this whole thing up, is to start looking for positive things that are beneath creating this thing in the first place. Some examples might be - you wanted to explore various positive and negative issues around love (giving, receiving, to self and the world), you wanted to explore your sense of power, you wanted consider how you hold your boundaries with the world (big issue with myself), or your ability to ask for and receive help (still rather weak in myself - independent sonofabitch, ,me.) These things possible, but maybe others. The mere act of looking for them starts to lessen the heaviness around that pit, which allows you start lifting out of it. You need enough space to stand above it and see it in perspective. If you find any of those positive motivations, latch on and commit to exploring them as far as you can take them. That dramatically shifts your trajectory.
So that's about it. To go further BB we really need to talk privately. I'll send you a PM with some questions.

I'm working on another post just talking about how amazing this thread is. Really I think this is totally new ground (in my experience at least) for what is possible on eplaya. Several people have commented on it at various points, but I think there may be even more going on and I wanted to touch on all of that.
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby delle » Thu Jul 26, 2012 4:38 am

Any love from those links, BB?
He soars not high who fears to fall
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby Jax Dee » Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:59 am

Box Burner wrote:
delle wrote:Oh, wait.

I totally misread your message as you were walking out the door TODAY.

Is there a way to perhaps.... NOT send your computer off for maintenance just yet -- it being kind of important to you at the moment -- and perhaps useless to you for a time once fixed. You could always get it fixed once settled. Lugging it around broken or fixed doesn't change its weight or the space it'll take in your car.

I would be happy to contribute towards a used laptop with wifi. At this point it seems a NECESSARY TOOL rather than just entertainment. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who feels this way, or who would be willing to help get one in your hands.

Are you hooked up with Paypal?


No. I think paypal requires credit cards to sign up and I don't have any.


AntiM wrote:I have a netbook I don't use. You'd have to come get it though.


I will take you up on that if I can't get anything better. I am losing my eyesight and using a 27 inch monitor and have to sit close and use readers to see it. At work I have a 17" monitor and I have to strain to read it. Even with the readers. Without the readers I can't even read my 27" monitor at all.


What about Western Union BB? I sent you a PM. Please let us know.
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby Box Burner » Sat Jul 28, 2012 11:55 am

Still here. Just busy getting stuff ready. Been looking at finances and I think I am truly fucked.

Suicide is on the backburner. Too busy to deal with it right now I guess. Anyway there is too much to do so will deal with that when I get to it. Keeping busy is a good thing.

Hung onto the computer a little longer. It keeps crashing. Will send it off next week. Probably box it up sunday.
Dance in the heart of chaos. . . . .

ὁ δὲ ἀνεξέταστος βίος οὐ βιωτὸς ἀνθρώπῳ
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --- Σωκράτης

.
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby gyre » Sat Jul 28, 2012 12:57 pm

Can you work out any arrangements with the ex, based on your being more capable of paying if you can get things in order to work?

Keep at it.
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby Box Burner » Sat Jul 28, 2012 8:45 pm

Nope, she's in over her head.
Dance in the heart of chaos. . . . .

ὁ δὲ ἀνεξέταστος βίος οὐ βιωτὸς ἀνθρώπῳ
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --- Σωκράτης

.
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