Knots/Attachments for Nylon Webbing

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Knots/Attachments for Nylon Webbing

Postby MacGlenver » Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:52 am

I'm planning to use Nylon Webbing to tie down a 20x30' monkey hut. I just ordered 100 yards of heavy nylon webbing, and will plan to tie 2 lines along the top of our monkey hut (attaching to each rib), then they will drop down to a rebar staple on either side.

Will a simple square knot work? Should i get ratchet straps with clip hooks on either end? Should I sew a loop in the end of the two lines?

Thanks!
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Re: Knots/Attachments for Nylon Webbing

Postby TomServo » Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:28 am

Your goal being..Not having the tarp fly away? If your worried about the tarp grommets ripping out, reinforcing them with duct tape or gorilla tape (Both Sides!) should be enough....then, just tie them down to an anchor of some sort.
Image

just apply the (Nashua)Duct Tape, several days before you go to the playa....

...over the brass grommets...pic shows them for reference..
anything worth doing..is worth overdoing

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Re: Knots/Attachments for Nylon Webbing

Postby Bob » Wed Jul 11, 2012 3:16 pm

Always been skeptical re: PVC anything, but I think putting ratchet straps anywhere in a monkey hut scenario is like putting a hose clamp on a sausage.
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Re: Knots/Attachments for Nylon Webbing

Postby MacGlenver » Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:52 pm

Good advice on taping the grommets, thanks! We're getting extra heavy duty tarp, but we will plan to do the taping as well.

My main goal is to keep the structure stable so that it doesnt take off in the wind (since it'll be a 30'x30' tarp). I'm referring mainly to a design like the picture below (click the link -- the picture appears too big to insert into my post). The ratchet straps would be down near where the webbing/rope attaches to the rebar staple. The goal of the ratchet straps is to ensure that the line stays taught and my monkey hut doesnt fold inward. I'm guessing a simple square knot will be fine with the webbing and i may be able to get it tight enough by hand, but I wasn't sure that it ties in knots very well or if it would benefit from a special knot.

http://www.toad.com/gnu/shadestructure/DSCN1755.JPG
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Re: Knots/Attachments for Nylon Webbing

Postby TomServo » Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:01 pm

Strong Rope with turnbuckles? ...using only hangman's knots...? the knots will only get tighter as the rope is pulled..AND, you get to tie nooses!
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Re: Knots/Attachments for Nylon Webbing

Postby MacGlenver » Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:13 pm

Well since I already ordered the 100 yards of nylon webbing (4200 pound tensile strength) based on some suggestions, I'll be figuring out the best way to attach that.

I'm thinking for simplicity's sake I'll forego the ratchet straps and just manually tie it (especially since I dont want TOO much tension)... or maybe I can work something out with d-rings or metal webbing slide adjusters so that I can tweak the tension without untying the whole thing.

Turnbuckles would have been fun tho :)

Image
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Re: Knots/Attachments for Nylon Webbing

Postby FIGJAM » Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:26 pm

That pic does'nt show a backbone for those ribs!

I would have one.

Tensioning can be easy with a "Truckers knot".

Tie a loop about 3' from the stake.

Run the free end through your stake and back up through the loop.

Now you can easily put as much tension as much as you need. 8)
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Re: Knots/Attachments for Nylon Webbing

Postby TomServo » Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:28 pm

I'm all about going overboard...and would use these with the straps..
Image
However, I'm sure the strap adjusters are cheaper.
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Re: Knots/Attachments for Nylon Webbing

Postby MacGlenver » Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:53 pm

Truckers knot sounds like a great idea.

As for the backbone, I'm debating it. I used a monkey hut with a PVC backbone last year and didn't like the design. Our hut last year was based on Love's Monkey hut, which splits the backbone into 3 sections that connect using T/X connectors and duct tape over the ends which wedge into the connectors. Ugh, so crappy. We ended up duct taping the whole thing together so the sections would stop falling out of the connectors.

For a recent regional burn (Euphoria in Georgia) I modified the design to use a single piece of 1" PVC across the top of the ribs, and duct taped it diagonally in both directions.

From what I can tell the only purpose of the backbone/ridge pole that runs lengthwise is to keep the spacing of your ribs consistent.

My thought now is this (basically what is shown in the pic I linked above):
1. Lay the ribs say 4 feet apart, then tie the strap around each rib (thus preventing them from going more than 4' apart). I would do this with 2 ropes/straps about 3 feet on either side of center. Here's an ugly text diagram of one of the ropes (rib, rope, rib, rope, etc.): |--|--|--|.
2. The ends of the rope extend out from the hut and anchor to the rebar staple on the ground, which will pull the ribs apart to their maximum 4' distance from eachother.
3. Profit

Since this relies entirely on the strapping to provide its strength, obviously I'm concerned about getting that right. I'll be bringing some extra PVC just in case, but I don't see what I lose by not having the backbone. Perhaps if I had 3 ridge poles (1 middle, and 1 on either side), the benefit would be that it prevents the hut from twisting? Maybe that's the thought.... Anyway, now I'm getting deep into the Structure side, so maybe they'll end up moving this thread.

Won't have a chance to try it ahead of time since I live in Atlanta, so I do want to err on the safer side :)
Last edited by MacGlenver on Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Knots/Attachments for Nylon Webbing

Postby MacGlenver » Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:55 pm

*deleted my own double post*
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Re: Knots/Attachments for Nylon Webbing

Postby FIGJAM » Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:08 pm

It would be easy to run a cord the length of the backbone, tieing the end ribs together, so the conectors can't slip apart.
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Re: Knots/Attachments for Nylon Webbing

Postby MacGlenver » Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:16 pm

Hmm, that would have been a great idea last year. Instead we just blew through a roll of tape :). That said, having the backbone cut into sections just seemed pointless to me. If I were to do a backbone, I think I'd be better off with one solid piece. For one thing you don't have to spend a ton of time to get the exact right amount of duct tape on the ends of each PVC section so that it jams snugly into the T or X connector.

Thanks for all the advice, guys! Come by Camp Toga at 7:15 and F to see if the thing blows down on us this year :).
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Re: Knots/Attachments for Nylon Webbing

Postby Bob » Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:43 pm

I think these monkey huts could gain a lot from placing grommets every 12" along the edges, and where the tarp meets the ground tie off to something solid along the stake lines, eg 2x4s or long pieces of pipe. Would prevent a lot of the luffing.

Still not sure why you need webbing or ratchet straps, just use light rope and learn a few knots.
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Re: Knots/Attachments for Nylon Webbing

Postby MacGlenver » Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:32 pm

Yeah I'm planning to secure the grommets along the side to the ground somehow. Not sure how yet, but probably secure half the grommets on one side to a piece of rebar (thus, 2 per side).

The webbing may be overkill.. not really sure, but since it was to be the main structure of the hut I didnt want anything to break. I read a lot of the breaking strengths for ropes/lower quality webbing and it ranged from 250lbs (basic twisted nylon rope) to 900lbs (1" poly webbing). I was imagining more force than that with a strong wind on a 900 square foot tarp, so I opted for this 4200 breaking strength nylon webbing. Since it wasnt outrageously more expensive than the other options ($61 shipped from Amazon), it seemed like a good bet.

I've got 200+ feet of 550 cord as well in case i need something simpler.
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Re: Knots/Attachments for Nylon Webbing

Postby FIGJAM » Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:46 pm

Check your PM.
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Re: Knots/Attachments for Nylon Webbing

Postby Canoe » Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:49 pm

+ on the trucker's knot

Is this flat nylon webbing or tubular nylon webbing and what width in inches?
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Re: Knots/Attachments for Nylon Webbing

Postby Bob » Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:13 pm

Key is using simple knots you can tie and untie and retie blindfolded in a whiteout. The tautline hitch is the canonical knot to secure the free end of guy lines.
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Re: Knots/Attachments for Nylon Webbing

Postby Jackass » Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:30 pm

Use 48" bungie cords with hooks or buy the cord by the foot in bulk and make your own custom cord. Bungie cord= self compensating
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Re: Knots/Attachments for Nylon Webbing

Postby MacGlenver » Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:12 am

Canoe wrote:Is this flat nylon webbing or tubular nylon webbing and what width in inches?


It's 1" flat nylon webbing. I couldnt determine whether tubular vs flat made a difference, plus the flat was the first fairly cheap option for webbing I found. I saw a few videos of firefighters giving advice on tubular nylon webbing knots (eg. the water knot). I suppose tubular ties better since it has a little more flex to it?

As for the bungie cords, i would be concerned that it wouldnt put the amount of tension on the line that i'd want. Also, I wouldnt think I'd want a lot of flex in the lines since it would allow my structure to shift around, right? Maybe there are somemore hardcore, less elastic cords? I'd think i'd rather just avoid them entirely, no? Suppose I'd also be concerned about the hook on the end either ripping off of the bungie cord or the hook bending straight (given all the tension).
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Re: Knots/Attachments for Nylon Webbing

Postby Bob » Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:45 pm

If you want a little flex, could use a thick doubled-up bungie cord on one of the stakes, and attach the rope or cord (or webbing) to that.
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