DEAR SOUND CAMPS.

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.

Re: DEAR SOUND CAMPS.

Postby gyre » Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:31 pm

The loud camps are the most common reason for people not to return, not dust or storms.


There wasn't that much music once upon a time.
I enjoyed hearing random Piaf in my camp one year more than anything else I heard that year.

Some years I hear live (real) music even.
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Re: DEAR SOUND CAMPS.

Postby Pop_Tart » Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:50 pm

Touch, taste, and sight are yours to engage or disengage as you wish. Sound and smell come at you from anywhere and everywhere and it is much harder to block them out. During the 2010 temple burn, some loud music was still playing in the distance from one or two camps. Thankfully that did not repeat at the 2011 temple burn (unless my memory is really that gone). A better balance between all the senses would be wonderful, especially at those few times when music truely is not appropriate.

Imagine if every sound camp went silent disco style for a year.

Hmm.. I'd miss the bass that is so strong it bypasses sound and goes straight to touch.
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Re: DEAR SOUND CAMPS.

Postby Simon of the Playa » Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:10 am

gyre wrote:The loud camps are the most common reason for people not to return, not dust or storms.


There wasn't that much music once upon a time.
I enjoyed hearing random Piaf in my camp one year more than anything else I heard that year.

Some years I hear live (real) music even.



Gyre, you are wrong once again....you dont attend, you know everything about everything and your opinions and half baked non-sequitars are as useful to this board as a pile of stinking dog crap.

why dont you just STFU already and crawl back into your cave in tennessee?
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Re: DEAR SOUND CAMPS.

Postby Simon of the Playa » Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:12 am

ps....it's ON you DoucheNozzle, it's ON....you wanna dance? lets dance...
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Re: DEAR SOUND CAMPS.

Postby Roberto Dobbisano » Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:14 am

ooooh, this should be good, the Man that attends every year and works his ass off vs. The man who stays home and armchair quarterbacks because he thinks he knows it all...



$1000 on Simon.


i wanna see some virtual blood...
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Re: DEAR SOUND CAMPS.

Postby gyre » Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:28 am

Kill the messenger.


Won't change a thing.
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Re: DEAR SOUND CAMPS.

Postby Simon of the Playa » Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:29 am

if the message is full of shit, you betcha...
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Re: DEAR SOUND CAMPS.

Postby gyre » Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:35 am

I love you, Simon.
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Re: DEAR SOUND CAMPS.

Postby Simon of the Playa » Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:38 am

nice try, but the fact remains this thread was started to discuss the issues with the sound camps and how to address them.


if you have any FACTUAL information or some meaningful dialogue to add, feel free.


if it's the same old blather that we've become used to from you, then fuck off, and go grind your many axes elsewhere.
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Re: DEAR SOUND CAMPS.

Postby mgb327 » Thu Jul 05, 2012 7:03 am

Wait...wait...wait...my popcorns' not out of the zapper yet...
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Re: DEAR SOUND CAMPS.

Postby gyre » Thu Jul 05, 2012 7:19 am

I think I did.

You really think everyone is enthusiastic about LOUD sound?

I know some are.

You are certainly familiar with the logarithmic way sound works, including directional sound.
I have already said it before.
It doesn't take long to reach diminishing returns, and simply add distortion to the audio and raise the volume considerably for people at long distance.
This adds very little up close.
There is at least one sound camp embracing the approach of controlled sound, and their results show a difference.
Still outlandishly loud, but clean and less obnoxious than many.

Eric Clapton started this shit, and most of his amps were dummies (just like many concerts still).

Sound levels most places for PAs are just fucking ridiculous.

I can do without any music out there myself, but obnoxiously loud canned music?
I don't get it.
I don't have to travel 5000 miles to be subjected to someone else's taste.
All I have to do is wait for the next gangster losermobile to cruise by.

I have fairly capable systems at home and in the car.
I just don't subject other people to them.

The volume pots go both directions.
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Re: DEAR SOUND CAMPS.

Postby Simon of the Playa » Thu Jul 05, 2012 7:50 am

once again, you make no sense, you try to deflect the conversation into some esoteric realm that you pretend to be an expert in...same M.O over and Over and Over.

if you got nothing to add but masturbatory drivel, please, start your own thread and talk amongst yourself.
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Re: DEAR SOUND CAMPS.

Postby H.G.Crosby » Thu Jul 05, 2012 7:54 am

Simon of the Playa wrote:Just a quick observation of the obvious.

The friction that exists between the different factions of burning man must end.

Sound Camps...i dont know about you personally, but for me, i am a Burner First, and a Raver Second.

Burning Man is NOT A RAVE, electronic dance music has become a large part of the festivities, but i have seen the change, since 1996 (and there are many others out there who have witnessed an even Longer Arc) and i think a Balance Must be struck or we risk ending up Coachellized and Bonnarood.

The Rolling Stone Article comes to mind.

this is NOT a good thing, trust me.

it is one thing to want recognition, maybe even a kiss and a reach around from the Bmorg, because i do think the LSC's provide a gift, and Art to the playa....However, it is NOT the reason to go to Burning Man, those are vast and very individualistic.

I am with Root Society, one of those Massive Sound Camps. I am Nixon going to china. I want to make it clear that the element that attends EDC, DAYGLO, COACHELLA, etc etc etc who are merely concerned with popping x and dancing around in fluffy neon clothes without regards to anything except their own instant gratification sickens me.

they do not belong at burning man unless they adopt and take to heart the principles that it follows.

we have room for all types of Burners, but notice, the word BURNER comes first.

i dont give a shit who the fuck you are out in defaultia, it's how you behave on the playa that i judge a person.

Dear Sound Camps, we are not here to Take Over Burning Man, we are here to participate in the beautiful patchwork quilt that is Black Rock City.

not overwhelm it.

I am walking a tight rope here, but it must be done. We have to consider the Moores Law curve of Increasing popularity of EDM (electronic dance music) and it's affect on the population of Burning Man.

Large Sound Camps, it is up to us to TEACH THEM BEFORE THEY GET HERE, and then continue that process all week...im talking heavy indoctrination here, boot camp for the ponies, to turn them into mules.

It Is SURVIVAL CAMPING, INCREDIBLE ARTWORK, COMMUNITY, and MUSIC all in a balance...

if this balance is upset, and i fear it is, bad things happen.

I hate to sound like Cassandra, but beware, the Barbarians ARE at the gate, be prepared to disarm them, charm them, and change them before they destroy the culture that the petri dish of Burning Man has grown.

They are not the enemy, they are just not Dusty, Yet.

Help Them Get Dusty, Please.

if this wonderful experiment is to continue onward we must protect the original seed stock, as well as welcome hybridization and new strains.

hopefully, all of these growing pains will shake themselves out over time, Just as other Watershed years have produced changes and the project has evolved. this year will be one of those years, without a doubt.

I am Confidant that we CAN do it, Burners are the most Intrepid, Enthusiastic, Graceful, Learned, Improvisational, Mindful, Artistic, Varied and Eccentric, Wild and Wonderful People i know....the list of Adjectives goes on and on but you get my drift.

I WILL fight to protect Burning Man...I WILL fight to protect the Black Rock Desert and surrounding Area...i Will fight for the Sound Camps and their right to be Burners too...

i will not fight for stupid consumer based fad followers who hop on bandwagons.

root society has been on the playa for almost a decade in on form or another.

we have had many campers thru the years join our family.

We Burn. And we're getting better each and every year at it.

and i plan on keeping it that way...and spreading this message to all of our guests.

Dust First, Dance Second.



right, this is what we were discussing until Gyre decided to he wanted to throw his two cents in and be the Authority on the Subject, because, you know, he is an Authority on just about everything...
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Re: DEAR SOUND CAMPS.

Postby trilobyte » Thu Jul 05, 2012 8:13 am

Play nice, please. Either agree to disagree or ignore each others posts, let's keep things civil and not let it spill over into any more threads.

Back on the subject, I think that from a science and electronics standpoint scaling up the size and power of a sound system in an open space has always been an exercise in diminishing returns to a large degree. That's part of the reason the 'keystone' camps in the large scale sound area have such monstrous rigs - to have a noticeably improved sound over the camp down the street you need tens of thousands more watts of sound. Meanwhile, in other areas of BRC, things can get bumping with well under a thousand watts.

As for publishing lineups, I strongly encourage everyone not to. The rockstar librarian listing doesn't matter, it won't make or break your party, honest. Years ago when I was running the temple of breaks we stopped posting the lineup/set times in advance, we wanted people to just come for the idea of the event and not to cherry pick the night for their favorite DJ set times. The years we didn't post the lists we had bigger crowds and better crowds, and more people stayed all night long. They didn't really know who was on the decks at the time, but they liked what they heard and were having a good time. Fom an event production side it also lets you program the night a little more freely, too, since it doesn't matter whether people know the name, just whether that artist/performer/band is any good.
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Re: DEAR SOUND CAMPS.

Postby Simon of the Playa » Thu Jul 05, 2012 8:20 am

trilo is right on the money.

we have David Lee, who is probably one of the BEST sound guys in the business tweak our rig, i think he also does Op Temp and a few others.

he knows his shit.

as far as Line-Ups go, i have already discussed this with the powers that be and they are in complete agreement.

Root Society will NOT be posting our line-up until we hit the dust.
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Re: DEAR SOUND CAMPS.

Postby Ugly Dougly » Thu Jul 05, 2012 9:14 am

Rather than curse the darkness, light a candle.
Or bring a drum.
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Re: DEAR SOUND CAMPS.

Postby Simon of the Playa » Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:14 am

Ugly Dougly wrote:Rather than curse the darkness, light a candle.
Or bring a drum.


a very good sentiment Ugly.

this whole blame game has to stop.

the Sound Camps have been around since ive been around, at least 16 years.

they did not make Burning Man what it is, they are a part of a giant picture that is the Whole.

they are not Destroying Burning Man, the Issue is the rising popularity and mainstreaming of Electronic Dance Music and how it affects our ever increasing population.

If all of a sudden Kinky Sex was Mainstream, i would hate to see what kind of tourist issues would develop.

Burning Man is NOT a rave, as stated before, however, if thats what you like to do, we got it.

if you like wayward art...we got that too...if you wanna listen to alex grey speak, you can do that.

to single out the LSC's as the source of the growing pains is disingenuous at best, and petty sniping based on the origins of these comments.

i will not stand back and let people trash what i love because it's trendy or they heard someone else say it, especially if these people do not burn or have Yet to burn.

i could easily make an argument that Center Camp is the Bane of The Event because its a Hippy Magnet, and that Hippies are Ruining Burning Man. They totally are, but i wont get into that here :twisted:

my point is, we can either work together, and try to solve the problems that do exist, or we can be little trolls, repeating the same old sad arguments just because we can...

i prefer to work together, and make the Large Sound Camps better, and also, to protect Burning Man from those elements that might exploit its success.

you wanna bitch? go ahead and bitch....i'll bring the candle and the drum machine instead.
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Re: DEAR SOUND CAMPS.

Postby Ugly Dougly » Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:19 am

Precisely. They go to the raves because they are fed by them in some dark, crusty way. If they find another way that is more fun and fulfilling (like a drum massive or live jams) then they will vote with their feet.
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Re: DEAR SOUND CAMPS.

Postby theCryptofishist » Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:38 am

Simon of the Playa wrote:If all of a sudden Kinky Sex was Mainstream, i would hate to see what kind of tourist issues would develop.

You mean it isn't?
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Re: DEAR SOUND CAMPS.

Postby Simon of the Playa » Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:40 am

touche,

but if rihanna plays the playa, i WILL be there...



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Re: DEAR SOUND CAMPS.

Postby DrYes » Thu Jul 05, 2012 11:49 am

Simon of the Playa wrote:both.


dj's are like cats...




My two dogs, whose names are (I'm not kidding) Nixon and Chairman Mao, disagree with your assessment of catness.
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Re: DEAR SOUND CAMPS.

Postby Simon of the Playa » Thu Jul 05, 2012 11:51 am

i have seen DJ's sniff each others asses before, but i believe it was an anomaly, or undercover Dogs Posing as Cats.
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Re: DEAR SOUND CAMPS.

Postby Homiesinheaven » Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:27 pm

hey Simon, this is great but have you heard from other sound camps at all? they dont seem to have a voice on eplaya and seems like it's only Root Society/you.
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Re: DEAR SOUND CAMPS.

Postby lemur » Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:07 pm

if ya look around youll see that eplaya is real small in terms of the overall burn community..

(it might have a lot of registered users..)

but not THAT many of the 700+ camps are represented here by someone who is an integral member... very few of the burning man depts as well.... few of the 'big' camps

which is a bit of a shame.. cuz a DEAR SOUND CAMPS thread, while it might be seen or mentioned to other camps,... might not get a lot of interaction from other camps integral members..

and its something that surely needs to be looked at and discussed/dealt with because of all the reasons that simon mentions..

most importantly i think this line:

Dear Sound Camps, we are not here to Take Over Burning Man, we are here to participate in the beautiful patchwork quilt that is Black Rock City.

not overwhelm it.



of course everyone wants their camp to be the awesomest thing out there but i think there is an inherent problem with performance related camps that bring in hundreds or thousands that it can easy to get into the.. more is better, bigger is better ..mindset.. and while that can be fine.. ppls runnin the camps have a bit of an obligation to make sure that their visitors are acculturated.. that the visitors realize where they are (our fuckin playa) ..and that the visitors need to be able to integrate themselves into the larger community to not end up as a dickwad ..which ends up giving the sound camps a bad taste in the mouths of people who notice dickwads coming from/to said sound camps..

...as these sound camps attract so many people it ends up being a sort of double edged sword ...on one side they attract tons of people.. some of them might even come to burning man specifically for the music ... and on the other they have a huge voice that can be used to get people to Do The Right Thing®

...in a way, once at the event.. the sound camps have the most ability to actually change what people are doing...... a lot more than the earth guardians!

itd be good if more folks were involved.. itd be cool to see some coalition of the willing .. i think itd do a lot to give the LSSCs a better image ....and while people might not like the loudness .. or the music.. at least theyll know they are doing their part (and more) to keep burning man awesome.
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Re: DEAR SOUND CAMPS.

Postby DrYes » Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:19 pm

lemur wrote: that the visitors realize where they are (our fuckin playa) ..


The "our" in "our fuckin playa" presumably includes said Burners at said LSSCs as much as anyone else no?
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Re: DEAR SOUND CAMPS.

Postby lemur » Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:19 pm

oh jeez
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Re: DEAR SOUND CAMPS.

Postby lemur » Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:21 pm

as in unless yer from a foreign country its ours as it's public land and we all have an interest in protecting it ?


does that really need to be explained ?


or are you just trying to create some kind of strife
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Re: DEAR SOUND CAMPS.

Postby theCryptofishist » Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:33 pm

lemur wrote:or are you just trying to create some kind of strife

With a name like DrYes, how could he?
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Re: DEAR SOUND CAMPS.

Postby lemur » Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:34 pm

i shoulda just said "MY FUCKIN PLAYA"
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Re: DEAR SOUND CAMPS.

Postby Simon of the Playa » Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:27 pm

in a way, once at the event.. the sound camps have the most ability to actually change what people are doing...... a lot more than the earth guardians!


my thoughts exactly Lemur.

it's real easy to preach to the choir, however if we can TEACH a "frat boy" or a "sparklepony" to moop, than he/she moops for life, and we have changed something for the better.
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