Rebar stress - question for those who have tried

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Rebar stress - question for those who have tried

Postby nerp » Wed Jul 04, 2012 3:41 pm

I have a question: Has anyone tried this

    - Drive a piece of rebar into the ground
    - Slide PVC Pipe over the rebar
    - Bend PVC to connect at the top of a shelter

Will the resulting stress pop the bottom of the rebar out of the ground? I'm sure someone has tried and failed at this... thoughts?

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Re: Rebar stress - question for those who have tried

Postby Rice » Wed Jul 04, 2012 3:45 pm

How long is the piece of rebar and how deep do you intend to pound it into the ground??
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Re: Rebar stress - question for those who have tried

Postby nerp » Wed Jul 04, 2012 3:52 pm

1/2" rebar, 24 inches long (home depot or similar). We could probably drive it down 16-18 inches. Is there fancy math you're going to show me ? :)
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Re: Rebar stress - question for those who have tried

Postby Rice » Wed Jul 04, 2012 3:59 pm

nerp wrote:1/2" rebar, 24 inches long (home depot or similar). We could probably drive it down 16-18 inches. Is there fancy math you're going to show me ? :)

1 foot or more in the ground is good. Being angled is also good.

In theory, you will not pull the rebar out of the ground. What a 100 MPH gust of wind will do? that is the question....
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Re: Rebar stress - question for those who have tried

Postby nerp » Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:02 pm

stretch80 wrote:In theory, you will not pull the rebar out of the ground. What a 100 MPH gust of wind will do? that is the question....


At least you're not saying I'm totally crazy ... that's good! :) It's the first year we're going to do a DIY structure, and I've been OCD about the whole thing. Thanks for the validation.
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Re: Rebar stress - question for those who have tried

Postby BBadger » Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:09 pm

I think it'll be fine at that depth so long as the soil is that hard stuff below the top. Your PVC is more liable to be damaged and break than the rebar during high winds.
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Re: Rebar stress - question for those who have tried

Postby Bob » Wed Jul 04, 2012 5:18 pm

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Re: Rebar stress - question for those who have tried

Postby some seeing eye » Wed Jul 04, 2012 5:29 pm

That is the standard way of making monkey huts. It's worked for hundreds of playaphytes over more than a dozen years. 2' 1/2" plum to the ground. A double tie wrap around the rebar at ground level to attach your canopy, or candy cane stakes.
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Re: Rebar stress - question for those who have tried

Postby Savannah » Wed Jul 04, 2012 5:31 pm

What Stretch80 and BBadger are saying is true in my experience. Your diagram appears to be monkey hut-like, and they fare very well out there. Agreed, the PVC is more vulnerable than the rebar. There did not seem to be much stress on the rebar itself.

2009 was my year of the monkey hut. We pounded 24" pieces about 12"-14" inches in and slipped the PVC onto it, then used bungee-balls to hold on our grommetted tarps and then guy lines at either end of the hut. The guy lines ought to be lit at night, and the rebar for the guy lines needs to be topped with solar lights, rebar toppers, tennis balls or plastic soda bottles, or you'll cut yourself.

Do a trial run of your shelter in your yard or at the park if you can. Bring a tape measure and gloves and all that good stuff. A trial run will give you confidence for doing this at the Burn, and show you any deficits in your plans.
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Re: Rebar stress - question for those who have tried

Postby lemur » Wed Jul 04, 2012 5:34 pm

id imagine if i was doing a design like pictured i would tape up/cushion the edges/corners of the rebar so that it wouldnt provide a sharp stress point on the PVC.

..enough stuff so it fits easily into the PVC but enough to take away that harsh edge.

may do nothing.

may help it from breaking ..


who knows!

its what i would do.. ive never tried such a design.
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Re: Rebar stress - question for those who have tried

Postby Savannah » Wed Jul 04, 2012 5:40 pm

Interesting idea, lemur. I wonder if there is anything thick enough that rebar wouldn't cut through, yet narrow enough to get the PVC onto the rebar? i.e., sturdy plastic caps or something, but not typical rebar-topper size (which is too big)?

It's not just the end of the rebar that stresses the PVC, it's the act of being bent that ages it. I wonder if capping the rebar would really add (for example) a year to the life of one's rebar?
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Re: Rebar stress - question for those who have tried

Postby some seeing eye » Wed Jul 04, 2012 6:27 pm

Schedule 40 pipe is tough. So the roughness of the rebar end which will even be slightly mushroomed from pounding tends to catch on the inside of the plastic pipe and help keep the pipe from slipping off the stake. Even with wind vibrating things all week, you will be fine. I think there are some other monkey hut experts and threads around here.

I'm a big fan of 20' pieces of pipe, even if they are bent over your passenger vehicle to haul, but others do 2x10'.
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Re: Rebar stress - question for those who have tried

Postby nerp » Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:40 pm

lemur wrote:id imagine if i was doing a design like pictured i would tape up/cushion the edges/corners of the rebar so that it wouldnt provide a sharp stress point on the PVC.
....


I like the idea - I think perhaps wrapping something cushiony around the rebar might be the right answer: Like matress foam or something foamy like that. Given the angled rebar - I'm looking to get something that will keep the rebar in contact with the inside of the pipe - so something like this might be the right answer. We were thinking of some sort of polyurethane expansion foam fill but perhaps taping something around the rebar would be just as effective at distributing the load so the rebar isn't poking into the PVC.

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Re: Rebar stress - question for those who have tried

Postby Bob » Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:47 pm

5/8" garden hose.

But I think you're overthinking.
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Re: Rebar stress - question for those who have tried

Postby nerp » Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:11 pm

Bob wrote:5/8" garden hose.

But I think you're overthinking.


Hahahha I'm a software architect ... I *always* overthink; so, yeah ... probable dead on diagnosis. Garden hose is an AWESOME idea. This is why I'm not a structural engineer. Gimme some code and I can make it sing; gimme a broken tuba and I'll put a rosebush in it.
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Re: Rebar stress - question for those who have tried

Postby wimala1 » Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:20 pm

nerp wrote:I have a question: Has anyone tried this

    - Drive a piece of rebar into the ground
    - Slide PVC Pipe over the rebar
    - Bend PVC to connect at the top of a shelter

Will the resulting stress pop the bottom of the rebar out of the ground? I'm sure someone has tried and failed at this... thoughts?

Image



i made a monkey hut last year and it worked fantastic. of course last year there was not any wind to speak of.

i hope this isn't advertising (it isn't meant to be) but i used a dura tarp that i got from

http://www.creativeshelters.com/Tarps/C ... lockerTarp

it was THE BEST!! i then used ball ties to attach the tarp to the frame. then ran a rope the full length of the tarp at the ground level, weaved in and out of the grommet holes and then looped around each of the vertical rebars (to hold the tarp as close as possible to ground). i used tent nail type pegs (18in long) at the midpoints of the longest runs of the rope between the grommets. then i went a little crazy and zig=zagged a 100ft rope from vert rebar on one side, up over the top to the vert rebar on the other end (back and forth over the whole hut) to prevent lifting of the tarp.

so that was a 50ft rope cut in half (one for each side of the tarp at the ground level) and a 100ft rope to zig zag across the top.


for the structure, i used this plan which someone was calling a galaxy hut http://galaxybeing.com/galaxyhut/ it was easy to do, laying out the rebar pattern on the ground was the hardest for me.

it was absolute luxury to have the hut and was worth every second of effort. i wish you all the luck and would post a pix of it here if i knew how :oops: i am taking it to the playa again this year.

tanya

ps if this was a totally blond explanation, don't worry, the galaxy hut site does it right!!!
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Re: Rebar stress - question for those who have tried

Postby nerp » Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:51 am

wimala1 wrote: [... ] ps if this was a totally blond explanation, don't worry, the galaxy hut site does it right!!!


You weren't rambling! Both you and the site were very helpful!

THANKS!
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