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Re: Shame on you BM.org

Postby Rice » Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:00 am

And here we go with the un-informed beating to death of yet another subject.

Dude, The BLM (Bureau of Land Management) Sets the maximum population cap for Burning Man. So that means that there are only a certain number of tickets that can be sold. Which means that only that many people can buy tickets...

But I might as well fart this in morse code for all the understanding it will give.
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Re: Shame on you BM.org

Postby junglesmacks » Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:29 am

stretch80 wrote:But I might as well fart this in morse code for all the understanding it will give.



:lol: :lol: :lol:


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Re: Shame on you BM.org

Postby segregorich » Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:56 am

BLM sets the population limits, but BMHQ--while on probationary status with the BLM--reportedly decided to sell >50,000 tickets for this year's festival before BMHQ obtained this year's BLM permit. Tail wagging the dog, or just good pillow-talk between Larry and BLM. .
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Re: Shame on you BM.org

Postby theCryptofishist » Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:30 am

Okay, so on one hand the LLC is greedy for agreeing to the population cap, and on the other hand the LLC is greedy for violating the population cap.

I think Barbie said it best.
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Re: Shame on you BM.org

Postby junglesmacks » Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:31 am

Not "reportedly".. they did.

Yeah, so? There wasn't a question of if they were going to get the permit.. it was a question of how many they were going to get it for.

You think that there isn't a good amount of behind the scenes communication after all these years? Thank dog there is.




*yawn*


segregorich wrote:BLM sets the population limits, but BMHQ--while on probationary status with the BLM--reportedly decided to sell >50,000 tickets for this year's festival before BMHQ obtained this year's BLM permit. Tail wagging the dog, or just good pillow-talk between Larry and BLM. .
Last edited by junglesmacks on Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Shame on you BM.org

Postby CornMan » Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:31 am

I do not believe it was brought about due to greed by the BMORG. As my economics instructor used to say, "Every action has unintended consequences." If they would have simply just put tickets on sale like all the other years, it most likely would have been a much better situation for most of us involved. It is extremely doubtful that ticket demand has increased from 100% of my camp having access to tickets months after they went on sale to only 25% getting tickets with no tickets available just hours after they go on sale. Somebody got those tickets.
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Re: Shame on you BM.org

Postby junglesmacks » Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:37 am

Yeah.. it could never be from increased demand..
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Re: Shame on you BM.org

Postby jkisha » Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:40 am

junglesmacks wrote:
stretch80 wrote:But I might as well fart this in morse code for all the understanding it will give.



:lol: :lol: :lol:


If you scan through this moron's users post history, you'll see nothing but gems. Don't even waste your energy gas on this.


There. I fixed it for you.
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Re: Shame on you BM.org

Postby lemur » Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:40 am

burning man should have sold out in.. 2007.. (it might be argued 2008 technically should have sold out based on the population change from 2006-2008..)....it should have sold out in 2010 as well....and did sell out in 2011... and now again in 2012.


this whole 'probation' thing is like 5 years late!.. they totally blatently oversold (by my reading of the documents) 2 times and didnt get knocked for it until the 3rd time.

burning man greed ? maybe?.. theyve at least been skating on thin ice for a while when it comes to pushing up against that BLM limit...
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Re: Shame on you BM.org

Postby Rice » Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:48 am

"oh why wont they sell more tickets so __ can go, fucking inconsiderate bastards!!" vs "those bastards sold more tickets, geedy american capitalist pigs!!"
:shock:
Geepers

What exactly are you trying to say??
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Re: Shame on you BM.org

Postby wh..sh » Sat Jun 23, 2012 12:07 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:I"m sure that the people behind Krug Champagne* could have bought the whole thing for more money and caused the llc less aggravation than they are making off this...

But, who will make and bring art? And I am sure they cant supply all the crazy people either.
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Re: Shame on you BM.org

Postby CornMan » Sat Jun 23, 2012 12:15 pm

junglesmacks wrote:Yeah.. it could never be from increased demand..


Yes, it was due to an increase in ticket demand, but not to the extreme degree where tickets are available for months after they go on sale one year to being sold out in hours the next. I'd bet $100 that if we could go in a time travel machine, and if they would have quietly put tickets on sale like normal, that it would not have been this bad. The interest and hype leading up to the lottery was extreme.
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Re: Shame on you BM.org

Postby Rice » Sat Jun 23, 2012 12:19 pm

Zeke Chaparral wrote:
junglesmacks wrote:Yeah.. it could never be from increased demand..


Yes, it was due to an increase in ticket demand, but not to the extreme degree where tickets are available for months after they go on sale one year to being sold out in hours the next. I'd bet $100 that if we could go in a time travel machine, and if they would have quietly put tickets on sale like normal, that it would not have been this bad. The interest and hype leading up to the lottery was extreme.


If everyone who wanted ticked only tried to get what they actually needed, I bet there would not have been any issues.

In principle, the ticket lottery was not a bad thing.
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Re: Shame on you BM.org

Postby Simon of the Playa » Sat Jun 23, 2012 12:20 pm

sit down, shut up, and drink your goddamn social engineering.
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Re: Shame on you BM.org

Postby Rice » Sat Jun 23, 2012 12:26 pm

Me?
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Re: Shame on you BM.org

Postby lemur » Sat Jun 23, 2012 12:26 pm

Zeke Chaparral wrote:if we could go in a time travel machine


...i think some of the stuff that is being discussed in this thread is like going back in a time machine..
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Re: Shame on you BM.org

Postby CornMan » Sat Jun 23, 2012 12:28 pm

The lottery would have worked fine if they would have put names/pictures on the tickets and announced that they may or may not check for them at the gate.
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Re: Shame on you BM.org

Postby Eric » Sat Jun 23, 2012 12:33 pm

Zeke Chaparral wrote: and if they would have quietly put tickets on sale like normal, that it would not have been this bad.


Since when have they ever gone on sale quietly? Honestly- people post every year starting in what, October?, asking when the next years tickets will go on sale. People plan their "first-day ticket-getting" strategies to get lower tiers. It's publicized in the media, on email lists, via camps, on facebook.... :roll:
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Re: Shame on you BM.org

Postby Roberto Dobbisano » Sat Jun 23, 2012 12:35 pm

stretch80 wrote:Me?



The interest and hype leading up to the lottery was extreme.



nope...

but it's inexclusive remember? or is that exinclusive?....fuck, now i have to check the flow chart.


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Re: Shame on you BM.org

Postby Rice » Sat Jun 23, 2012 12:35 pm

Zeke Chaparral wrote:The lottery would have worked fine if they would have put names/pictures on the tickets and announced that they may or may not check for them at the gate.

How does having pictures/names on the tickets address the fact that more tickets were requested than exist? HOW?
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Re: Shame on you BM.org

Postby H.G.Crosby » Sat Jun 23, 2012 12:38 pm

this is SO much better and easier and efficient.

read the back of your goddamn ticket.

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Re: Shame on you BM.org

Postby CornMan » Sat Jun 23, 2012 12:42 pm

stretch80 wrote:
Zeke Chaparral wrote:The lottery would have worked fine if they would have put names/pictures on the tickets and announced that they may or may not check for them at the gate.

How does having pictures/names on the tickets address the fact that more tickets were requested than exist? HOW?


Then people would have only ordered the tickets they needed for themselves. I personally know somebody who put in 8 orders in using multiple cards/friends. It would not do me a whole lot of good to have more than one ticket that says Zeke Chaparral. It would not do me any good to dream up a name and post some picture only to sell/gift it to somebody who has a different name/picture.
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Re: Shame on you BM.org

Postby Rice » Sat Jun 23, 2012 12:46 pm

Zeke Chaparral wrote:
stretch80 wrote:
Zeke Chaparral wrote:The lottery would have worked fine if they would have put names/pictures on the tickets and announced that they may or may not check for them at the gate.

How does having pictures/names on the tickets address the fact that more tickets were requested than exist? HOW?


Then people would have only ordered the tickets they needed for themselves. I personally know somebody who put in 8 orders in using multiple cards/friends. It would not do me a whole lot of good to have more than one ticket that says Zeke Chaparral. It would not do me any good to dream up a name and post some picture only to sell/gift it to somebody who has a different name/picture.


So, you are saying that most burners are selfish and inconsiderate? And that it is Burning Man who needs to keep people honest?

I say again, the lottery issues were caused by the people trying to get tickets, it is not a BM Org issue...
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Re: Shame on you BM.org

Postby CornMan » Sat Jun 23, 2012 12:55 pm

stretch80 wrote:
Zeke Chaparral wrote:
stretch80 wrote:How does having pictures/names on the tickets address the fact that more tickets were requested than exist? HOW?


Then people would have only ordered the tickets they needed for themselves. I personally know somebody who put in 8 orders in using multiple cards/friends. It would not do me a whole lot of good to have more than one ticket that says Zeke Chaparral. It would not do me any good to dream up a name and post some picture only to sell/gift it to somebody who has a different name/picture.


So, you are saying that most burners are selfish and inconsiderate? And that it is Burning Man who needs to keep people honest?

I say again, the lottery issues were caused by the people trying to get tickets, it is not a BM Org issue...


I'm just saying that if they would have quietly put tickets on sale like all the years before instead of making such a big deal about it, fewer burners would be ticketless.
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Re: Shame on you BM.org

Postby theCryptofishist » Sat Jun 23, 2012 1:04 pm

wh..sh wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:I"m sure that the people behind Krug Champagne* could have bought the whole thing for more money and caused the llc less aggravation than they are making off this...

But, who will make and bring art? And I am sure they cant supply all the crazy people either.

Either they would have killed the goose and a year or two afterwards attendance would drop precipitously, or they could hire some people to be the local color. They are crass enough.
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Re: Shame on you BM.org

Postby lemur » Sat Jun 23, 2012 1:05 pm

oooh

i get to dig these out again

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Re: Shame on you BM.org

Postby Rice » Sat Jun 23, 2012 1:06 pm

Zeke Chaparral wrote:I'm just saying that if they would have quietly put tickets on sale like all the years before instead of making such a big deal about it, fewer burners would be ticketless.


Once the tickets sold out for the first time, there was no turning back. From that moment on, there is a possibility of a ticket sell out. Which, puts the BM tickets in the scalpers radar. First come, first serve is a scalper's dream. Thus the lottery.

There was such an uproar when the tickets did sell out for the first time ever, that quiet essentially was not going to happen.

I stand by my statement that it was the people gaming the ticket lottery that caused the so-called lottery failure. I would love to hear some other rational reason....
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Re: Shame on you BM.org

Postby lemur » Sat Jun 23, 2012 1:09 pm

stretch80 wrote:I stand by my statement that it was the people gaming the ticket lottery that caused the so-called lottery failure. I would love to hear some other rational reason....


i had a real good thing all typed up!

but then i noticed you wanted a rational reason..


pah!
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Re: Shame on you BM.org

Postby theCryptofishist » Sat Jun 23, 2012 1:14 pm

What if it were irrational exuberance?
And just how rational is the burn anyway?
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Re: Shame on you BM.org

Postby Rice » Sat Jun 23, 2012 1:17 pm

lemur wrote:
stretch80 wrote:I stand by my statement that it was the people gaming the ticket lottery that caused the so-called lottery failure. I would love to hear some other rational reason....


i had a real good thing all typed up!

but then i noticed you wanted a rational reason..


pah!

Rational statements are all "intelligent conversation" and such, but the other arguments are so much fun (ie: popcorn & bacon)
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