The art car the was a gazebo w/ a strip pole in the middle.

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The art car the was a gazebo w/ a strip pole in the middle.

Postby Playa Face » Wed Sep 15, 2004 4:55 pm

Ok I admit that just up and jumping onto an art car is not good, BUT when one of the guys come and grab my shoulder hard and yell at me to get off?? OK fine we got off to a bad start. Then I see the same car parked so I take the oppertunity to get rid of any misunderstanding. So I jump onto the car(It was parked by the way) and go to talk to one of the guys, He fucking trys to grab me agin so I tell him "I'm here t....." He says You need 2 girls to get on this car. Well I tell him to go fuck himself. I thought BM was a place of sharing and meeting new friends. I guess its up to who has the best art car and theme camp. Anyone else have problems with these guys??
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Postby KrystalWolf » Fri Sep 17, 2004 2:50 pm

As a member of that Group that created the particular art car you are speeking of, I feel the need, even though I do agree with you on one point, to defend our actions.

I was on that car 99% of the time due to the fact that there were SO MANY OTHERS just like YOU, who felt that were sooooo awesome and soo ballsy that they could jump on the art car. HELLO number one rule DO NOT JUMP ON ART CARS. There was a TRUCK underneath that car and if you had missed, thank gooddness you did not, you could have easily been run over.

Why do you think that rule was created? Beacuse some one in the past years did what you did and got themselves seriously hurt. I do not know about you but being one of the few responsoble for YOUR BUTT and the ca'rs I do not need that.

BUT I will agree that the "bouncer" was harsh on a few occasions and we did speak to him about it. But after that same thing happened EVERY NIGHT, it gets a lil hard not to put a foot down. We had no choice but to protect you and others as well as the car.

Maybe the problem is we need to get people to "STOP JUMPING ON ART CARS."

I do hope we did not put a damper on your whole burn.

Wolf
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The art car the was a gazebo w/ a strip pole in the middle

Postby Diane » Fri Sep 17, 2004 9:11 pm

I also was part of the group that brought you the ExploraToRium this year and it was called the Coliseum last year. I cannot even think that anyone from our group told you that you needed 2 girls to get on the car. But if they did it was because we were having fun at your expense and it sounds like you were just the victim to do it to!
However, the Wolf had a point and one I dealt with alot last year and this year.
Just because it is an art car doesn't give you or anyone the right to be unsafe and jump on. Nor does it give us the right to act like elitist assholes. HOWEVER after reading your story, I actually remember who you are and in all honesty, you did not want to respect the fact that there was a hell of alot of people on the car and for your information, the builder DROVE that thing there. If the chassis or axle broke because of too much weight, we would have been really fucked. How would we havegotten it home? Would you have helped us out?
You: 1. did not ASK to come on the car and 2. you did not even think that maybe the car was having issues and HAD to stop and park because we needed to clear people off to find out what the problem was or fix whatever or maybe we just wanted to rest and not be the friendly taxi you were expecting us to be.
THANKS FOR YOUR RESPECT, UNDERSTANDING AND EMPATHY
And yes, I did have a problem with that "gazebo with a stripper pole in the middle" IT WAS BECAUSEOF JERKS LIKE YOU THAT made me not want to ride on it because having to tell people to be safe and etc and so on gets really tiring and turns out to so very negative most of the time because people don't think about the car just themselves and having fun.
Which is really very sad because one of thebest friends in the world made that car out of his own pocket. No fund raisers, no paid crew or paid bouncers or drivers. He has driven the masterpiece out there 2 years in a row and had to deal with large numbers of people like you. Both drivers this year were incredibly nic e to everyone and if you were cool and respectful, you had a very positive experience aboard the ExploraToRium. I know because we heard many more "thankyous" than "fuckoffs".
You are lucky you weren't the fuck we kicked in the chest! Or the asshole that FELL off while trying to jump on with no illumenation in a dark area wayout on the playa!
Maybe next year you can try and climb the man since you feel this event is supposed to be a place to share and meet new people and do whatever you want to do no matter the price - just as loing as YOU get something out of it. Gimme a break and get some respect.

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Postby Markov Chaney » Fri Sep 17, 2004 10:08 pm

Gotta say I had a great time on the Coliseum in '03, but this year I lost the faith. I mean is it really funny to heckle someone who has run into a guy wire because of your goddamn strobes blinding him! Luckily I wasn't hurt, but fuck you very much for laughing at someone elses misfortune, and enjoying the fact that you caused it.
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Postby KrystalWolf » Sat Sep 18, 2004 12:58 am

No its not polite or fun to be laughed at, but it happens to the best of us. Bu tare you really goiong to sit there and blame lights on an art car for your misfortune?

And can you be POSITIVE that it was the creators and or team members of the art car that were laughing at you? Or was it jus the art car in general? Which would encompass all the people riding on it and maybe even the members of the art car.

Can you with all certainty say "yes I know all the members of the camp and the creator of the art car, and yes I saw them laughin at me?" I mean come on if the lights blinded you how can you be sure?


I'm sorry but this was and is burning man and though I do not support laughing at the expence of others (And I can not really say because I was not there), it also seems a lil ridiculous all this nit picking. LET THINGS GO is that not also a motto at the burn.

I was treated poorly once or twice myself, but I simply smiled, offered a polite goodbye and took my leave to elsewhere with other more pleasant people.

Glad you were not hurt

Wolf
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Postby Markov Chaney » Sat Sep 18, 2004 7:09 am

Well, unless someone other than the operator of your car was on the PA it was certainly one of your campmembers heckling me. And since the heckler specifically said "Another succumbs to our great strobe lights" or some such, I expect that my being blinded wasn't an isolated incident. So don't shirk blame.
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Postby KrystalWolf » Sat Sep 18, 2004 10:52 am

There is a difference between shrinking from blame and opening the mind to questions someone may need to ask themselves before accussing others.

Seeing As our llights cannot be moved technically it would not be seen as our fault. And as for the PA we did in fact let riders speak on it.

But to be honest sir I cannot believe I am replying to this again. So I leave you to your anger and hope that your entire Burn was not ruined by that.

Again very gald you were not hurt.

Wolf
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Postby Markov Chaney » Sat Sep 18, 2004 10:56 am

People who can't own their shit are pathetic
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Postby Playa Face » Sat Sep 18, 2004 1:18 pm

Hey guys I was simply bring up the fact your art car "staff" has a bad time with people managment. And for calling me a Jerk, just shows you have terrible people skills agin. The 2nd time I walked on the to PARKED car of yours. I was trying to apologize for being abrupted, But then that time you guys have proven yourselves as "JERKS".
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From the CreaToR

Postby sirseaweed » Sun Sep 19, 2004 11:11 am

What a suprising new thread to find about my machine. While it would be nicer to hear stories of fun and good times like the kind words of erosgodess, I understand that "Playa Time" is not always perfect. My effort spent in this response will hopfully lead to better understanding of what really occurred and what my intent is with the creation and operation of my machine. Ultimately, the burn is what you put into it and the memories you take with you.

My first year at the burn, I found that I was denied access to art cars almost every time I asked and though, "I will build my own art car." Watching the other machines, I came up with some fundamentals that I wanted to include in my vehicle.

First and foremost, I wanted her (I will use the female pronoun here as a term of respect for the Exploratorium) to be about people. Many machines had drivers isolated from the passengers and I really wanted to interact with those who might share my experience on the Playa by joining me on my art car. Also, I wanted the vehicle to be open and encourage interaction between the passengers as well.

Some of the people involved with the machine fight "Live Steel" which is real armor and real swords (as seen in Thunderdome Thursday night). Considering that, an open stage for combat, art, poetry, or anything else was thought as the ideal. True, it has become a dance stage as well and thank you everyone who have enjoyed that.

Reality has since set in about what is entailed in an art car. She has enabled me to roam the Playa and see more and meet more people than ever. Unfortunately, these experiences tend to be more transient as people come and go and many use the machine as a taxi. I am happy to give rides and probably too often divert my intended direction to accomodate someone who is, "... camped just right at ______."

Do I remember you, Playa Face? Do I remember you, Markov? Of course I do. Negative situations, sadly, are far too memorable as there are always the question of, "How could I have made that better."

Brutus experienced the playa for the first time this year and did a great job helping me with the art car and most of you probably remember him as "The Bouncer". Me, most refer to me as, "The Cowboy" because of my hat.

One late night, we were cruising the Esplanade near the 3:00 plaza and had a pretty full load. It had been a long night and as the weekend got closer, there was a much different vibe with people just jumping all over the machine without a, "May I have a ride?" or "Do you have room?" or even without the courtesy of even waiting for us to slow down to let you know either way.

That night was one night where Brutus "The Bouncer" was driving and I (Captain Chuck aka The Cowboy) was doing what I could to keep everyone on and around the machine safe. This is when we met you, Playa Face. I remember approaching you as you ran through the darkness, jumped on the moving machine, and planted yourself right in front of the driver.

Approaching you, I grabbed your shoulder to get your attention, told you not to jump on a moving art car, and asked you to sit in the back. As I recall, you said, "Don't fucking touch me." I then tried to explain that I needed you to show some respect for the machine and the people aboard. Again, I heard "Fuck you!" You were then told, "Get the fuck off my machine." and, of course, you did. The time for discussing whether or not I was too agressive with my shoulder grab was over. You were pissed and I really wanted to move along.

As I stood on the front of the machine, you approached me, as though you wanted to fight. This was far from my goal but I would deal with you on whatever terms you chose. It was probably Brutus standing behind me that changed your tune from wanting to kill me to saying, "If I see this machine around, I am going to fuck it up."

So let's recap. Now you have endangered yourself and those on board by jumping up in front of the driver, you have threatened me personally, and you have threatened physical damage to the vehicle. Is it any suprise that you were asked to leave? I was not there the second time but did you really come to apologize?

The second unfortunate occurence was with you, Markov. Having had been towed in previous years, I was sympathetic to the request by another art car for a tow on Sunday. We tied a 15-20' rope between the machines and hung some red cloth from them and took them for a tour around the playa.

Enter Markov on his bicycle. Though I could not see him approaching the two vehicles from the side (and behind me), I could hear the yelling of warnings toward the bicyclist from the car I was towing. They had seen Markov approaching to side between the two MOVING vehicles. They yelled that there was a rope and to stop for the last 50 feet of his journey; before he ran into the rope, crashed his bike, and damaged the other art car.

Everyone was concerned for your well being, including myself and the one I believe was operating the PA system. Once you said you were alright, he said something in jest, perhaps about the strobe light (which, incidentally, is 22 feet off of the ground and in broad daylight, does not seem so blinding).

While I am sorry for your misfortune, Markov, I may have been a participant, but I certainly did not "cause" it. Thank you for your kind words about your '03 experience, but if you want to talk about owning responsibility, own up to the fact that you just wrecked your bike in an unfortunate situation and thank goodness you are ok and thank goodness that anybody can laugh about it.

I agree with Playa Face with the question, "Did anyone else have problems with these guys?" Please, post them here and let me know. It is my intent to provide as much fun and entertainment as possible without getting anybody hurt. Also, for those of you who might have enjoyed their time with the Exploratorium, please share those experiences as well. That is what she was made for and those stories are what inspire me to put forth the effort to not only bring the machine each year, but to improve her to make her even more fun; which, hopefully, will allow me to meet and interact with even more of the phenomenal people I have met at Burning Man.

Thank you KrystalWolf and DivaDiane for your passion and your support. It was my pleasure and honor to camp with you and share all those playa experiences including all the great times on the Exploratorium.
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Postby Markov Chaney » Sun Sep 19, 2004 12:24 pm

I'm afraid you have me mistaken for someone else sirseaweed. The event that I mentioned occured at night and near center camp. You were not involved in towing anyone at the time, and the guy wire I ran into was not your own.

It was a dark area on one of the streets near the cafe, and I was blinded by your strobes so I did not see a wire as I was walking my bike. I skinned my knee up pretty badly, but I consider that 'not hurt' as I was able to enjoy the rest of my burn with just a little pain. I will grant that the owner of the structure whos guy wire I tripped over was more at fault than you, as it was not well marked.

The issue here is this, after I fell I was heckled. Something to the effect of "another succumbs to our strobe light. You should be careful out there." You did not investigate whether or not I was ok, you just kept moving along. The phrase, "Another one succumbs" indicates to me that the strobe had caused others difficulties as well. Now, the issue is not who is at fault here, and I certainly would have been willing to let things go if I hadn't been heckled. Hell, I come to the Playa for the danger, and I don't really care about a scraped up knee. What pisses me off is that you continued to use a strobe that evidently had blinded several people, and what's more you found amusement in the difficulties it caused. I would liken this to intentionally leaving a guy wire unmarked with ribbon or something so that people couldn't see it at night, and then waiting around for the next accident to happen so that you can laugh at the poor schmuck. If others "succumbed" to you strobe light, maybe it needed to be turned off?

I was equally taken aback by the "Bummer dude. not our fault. glad you didn't get hurt, but don't be such a klutz" attitude that I got after posting about this incident on the eplaya. Hey how about a simple, "Sorry man, that was shitty and I would have been a little pissed too. Glad that your ok."

Just wanted to set the record straight so that others don't have me confused with the individual you mentioned in the last post.

Hear that? That the sound of me letting all this go.

Later. See you all at the burn next year. I will not hold this in my heart, and if I see a new incarnation of the Colliseum/Exploritorium I will approach withour any preconceptions of who or how you are. BTW, the exploratorium was beautiful, you guys put a lot of work into that machine since '03. I was impressed.
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Postby KrystalWolf » Sun Sep 19, 2004 12:51 pm

I regret that you feel that my post was merely a
"Bummer dude. not our fault. glad you didn't get hurt, but don't be such a klutz" That was not at all what went through my mind. I merely dislike when people, not just here on this board but encompassing the whole of the world, (including myself in the past) go about accusing everyone and anything out of a brused ego or anger.

And if you read again what I wrote I never said it was not our faults I merely struck up threads of thought and questioning that were meant to reveal the fact that there were many FACTORS involved that resulted in that unpleasant event.

I do regret that you assume I did not care, but you see i care not only for you but for my friends and other people who were on the car. Cause they are accused of "heckling" just as much as those who "ran the show". If I had known of the incident i would have shook my finger at it.

I am sorry that happened to you.

I truly do hope that this never happenes again because I too have been laughed at once or twice in my short lived years. I know how it feels on an even grander scale then this.

Please accept my words that I never meant to "attack" you on this subject.

I do hope we see you next year.

Wolf
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guy wires

Postby sirseaweed » Sun Sep 19, 2004 2:37 pm

Markov,

Sorry for the confusion. Hopefully whoever was on the PA that night was just trying to be funny, regardless of their poor taste and timing. I am glad that you are ok and this is a good lesson that guy wires should always be marked, especially in Center Camp.

I look forward to seeing you next year and appreciate your positive outlook.

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Postby Playa Face » Sun Sep 19, 2004 2:39 pm

Well after recounting the night in my head which is some what of a blur, I acted a little out of hand by responding aggressively when you grabbed me, But also realize I bouncing for 6 years part time in a very upscale live music venue the last thing you want to do is approach someone by grabbing thier shoulder and yelling at them. It sets the standard for the rest of the situation. And by all means I did not change my tune cause Brutus got involved, It was merely my friend getting in between us remember the korean man telling me to "lets go"?? And also earlier that night I saw the car at Lush and was impressed by the artistic thoughfulness that was put into it. And as for the 2nd time around I was with my girlfriend and thier was only 2-3 people on the car, it was parked I think at your camp the car wasnt even moving. The "customer service rep" for the day was a white guy with glasses and a surong on. I (slowly this time) stepped onto the vehicle with my full intentions of appologizing to the operater/s, And before I could get 2.5 words out your CSR barks out " You have to have girl/s to get on here". So that kinda killed my appologetic feelings. So I uped and left.

I did think your art car was simply a well done project and I could have been more diplomatic. But you choose to still point the finger at just me the bad guy and your team as complete angels. I have no prblem admitting when I have fucked up. But by all means dont lie and say I backed off and "changed my tune" once your friend stood up. I deal with larger scale hostile situations than you guys every weekend. So let me part by saying sorry for my half and when I see you next year I promise to go the other direction. Peace
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Markov - you are not the only one!

Postby Diane » Mon Sep 20, 2004 10:14 am

I may admit that we have bright blue flashing lights and yes like moths to light, many people cannot not look at the vehicle when it is traveliing.
I hope and pray the designer and builder of this gloriuos machine does not change anything for next year just because of 1 comlaint. Many times those blue flashing LED's were my only beacon on the playa after a long night of dancing or wandering. I found the car 3 times after thinking it was gone because of those lights. You always know you can find something interesting where those lights are. Maybe positive or negative but interesting all the same. I can understand how it happened and really like the deer in headlights, you were struck a bit senseless in the light. Last year the same thing happened to me but with a damn bike light. I was riding slowly into my camp and BLAM! my light flips up towards my face and made me run into the trailer I was attempting to avoid! I carry the scar of the laceration today. A reminder of my first burn I have written it up as...
As for PlayaFace - I am sorry you had a bad experience on the ExploraToRium. I have had them too. I feel maybe I took a bit of my angst about many people like you out on only you. This I apologize for. I have learned a lesson and I pray you have too. Next year please let us know who you are when you approach the car and if I am on it, I certainly will make room for or even get off myself so you can have the experience of riding on it.
But just don't sit in front of the driver, OK?!
:P
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Postby brutus » Mon Sep 20, 2004 8:40 pm

i was driving the car that night and thats not what happened you were told not to move on a moving art car and you did any ways so my friend and owner of the art car went to tell you for one you dont jump on to the car while it was moving and you dont sit in the way of the driver so i could not see .then he told you not to jump on another art car while it was moving . he didnt grab your shoulder he put his hand on it and you told him to fuck off . then he kicked you off his art car for being an asshole
the car was moving and it stop when i got out of the driver seat to kick your ass if you were to start any shit with my friend that you were being very rude to. so if i got involed you would have had a really bad burn .you dont tell an own of an art car the your going to fuck up his art car and expect to stay on it ., what crack are you smoking.build your own art car and see how hard it is to drive and not run over people that run up to you for a ride or get made because your full when you do that then talk your shit.until then quiet being a bitch and except the fact that you were drunk and asshole. i dont see anyone giving you a ride .so kick dust and walk next time .
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my offer still stands playaface

Postby Diane » Mon Sep 20, 2004 9:15 pm

i will be running a bar Fahrenheit 451 at the OC/SD DeCom and will be at the LA and Sacramento ones.
Come and have a drink - can't give you a ride at Decom, but at least we can get to know each other and move forward.
8)
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Postby Playa Face » Tue Sep 21, 2004 6:32 pm

Hey Brutus by all means leave it alone. He did "Grab" my shoulder and even admitted it on this thread. Please also do not offend me by lying to me and yourself. Threating me is by all means will not make this situation any better. I have appologized and moved on. Maybe you should too.

Diane Thanks for your hospitality, But I will not be able to go to OC/SD Decom or the Sac one. I will be at the SF one of course. LOL Im doing Security I think.
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Postby zooooomm » Wed Sep 22, 2004 10:34 pm

Dude,

Just because you are a bouncer does not make you god or even a tough guy. If SirSeaweed and Brutus had an agenda that evening, who were you to stand in their way. There were 40k people at burning man. Surely you could let some poor operators of an art car do their own thing without flaming them. Maybe he "grabbed" your shoulder because you were causing a safety issue. It might have been necessary to move you out of the way so the art car could travel on safely. I suppose a bureaucrat like you would insist that a 'rules and conditions' sheet be posted on all eight sides of the Exploratorium. If that is the case, please run back to the library and continue studying your tort law books. Maybe you will be successful at suing McDonalds's over spilled coffee. Seriously, I have known SirSeaweed for a long time, and he always puts his fellow man's happiness before his own. If you got in his way then you certainly were not listening and probably caused a safety issue. Please do the right thing and apologize to both SirSeaweed and Brutus. They are not people to hold grudges, maybe in 2005 you can share the experience that makes the Coloseum/Exploratorium/2005whatever so much fun.

Zooooomm


Playa Face wrote:Hey Brutus by all means leave it alone. He did "Grab" my shoulder and even admitted it on this thread. Please also do not offend me by lying to me and yourself. Threating me is by all means will not make this situation any better. I have appologized and moved on. Maybe you should too.

Diane Thanks for your hospitality, But I will not be able to go to OC/SD Decom or the Sac one. I will be at the SF one of course. LOL Im doing Security I think.
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Postby Playa Face » Thu Sep 23, 2004 9:59 am

Did I fucking say I was a god????? I appologized for my behavior, Maybe you should read the rest of the thread before reacting!!!! I did appologize to SirSeaweed, Not to "brutus" Because "brutus" is abusive. I was fucking there, You werent? Right? So my girlfriend read these replys and laughed her ass off to the people that said I "Backed down" or "changed my tune". She knows I do not back down to anything, Even if It means I am hoplessly out numbered. Were you sitting next to me when this happend? No you werent! He DID grab my shoulder and started yelling at me! I UNDERSTAND I WAS IN THE DRIVERS WAY! IT WAS MY FAULT! I APPOLOGIZED!Did you read it that time or do you choose to only read what you want and dicard the rest?? I can write you a letter so you can use it as a reference every time you forget!! Since the only friend I have that was involved will not subject himself to stupid insults, I am the witch in the witch hunt. So for you people that have let it go and moved on with life. Thanks for helping me clear this up. And to the people that have no life and CONTINUE to lie about the stupid situation. Remember this quote? "GO FUCK YOURSELF"!! Have a nice day. :wink:
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Postby KrystalWolf » Thu Sep 23, 2004 10:10 am

how bout remebering this quote (FYI this is not to get reinvloved i just could not help myself this is all getting soooo funny)

"Can't we all just get along...?"
"...Wolf is both the radical and the traditional in the same breath. When the Wolf walks by you - you will remember. ~ Robert Ghost Wolf"
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~

Postby sparkletarte » Thu Sep 23, 2004 5:13 pm

Oh my. This went from bad to okay to worse.
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Postby TheMuse » Fri Sep 24, 2004 11:45 am

On a side-note, thank you guys for taking some of our boxed wine! I hope you had a good time with our impromptu drive-by-drinking party while we were breaking down on Sunday.
Living on Earth is expensive, but it does include a free trip around the sun every year.
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Postby dragonfly Jafe » Fri Sep 24, 2004 12:15 pm

This thread is a perfect example of one of the reasons I will NOT be bringing a large mutated vehicle to share in 2005 - the energy is just too wrong these days to risk it (plus LEO scrutiny, registration stress, logistical problems, etc).
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art car patrol

Postby pattycakes » Fri Sep 24, 2004 12:52 pm

I feel for the folks driving the art car and the ones having to patrol riders. Surly Camp has had an art car for the past two years (the Surly Bird) and it's really a lot of work to keep people from hurting themselves. It's great when people ask to ride your art car before boarding because you can tell them how to safely get on and where they can't sit (like right in the driver's sightline). We tried to be welcoming and nice but firm with people about how to get on and when we could or couldn't give them a lift somewhere. But I have to tell you that, from reading all the posts about this rider, it would have been hard not to put foot to ass to get him away from me. Some people don't seem to understand that building, transporting, and providing an Art Car is a lot of goddamn work, and for all that work, getting treated like a late bus driver or unpaid chaffeur is not at all cool. I love the interaction you can have with many people using an Art Car, and most of the people we met were great. Very few were like this rider, but I did personally kick off one drunkass woman (pouring drinks on the stereo and other people, while her boyfriend puked in the back) who kept asking me "Do you know who I am? I'm on MTV!" Right, bitch. Your drunk ass is right now walking across the playa.
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Re: art car patrol

Postby dragonfly Jafe » Fri Sep 24, 2004 3:08 pm

pattycakes wrote:...but I did personally kick off one drunkass woman (pouring drinks on the stereo and other people, while her boyfriend puked in the back) who kept asking me "Do you know who I am? I'm on MTV!" Right, bitch. Your drunk ass is right now walking across the playa.


That about sums it up.
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Re: art car patrol

Postby spectabillis » Fri Sep 24, 2004 3:48 pm

pattycakes wrote: "Do you know who I am? I'm on MTV!"


Personally, that would have been enough reason for me drop-kicking her right away.
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Postby theCryptofishist » Fri Sep 24, 2004 3:51 pm

Dang it seems that the entire e-playa doesn't realize that MTVers are our supuriors in every way and that us poor schmucks are lucky that they deign to grace our dreary little event that has so little to recommend it. We are in revolt against the natural order of the universe.



A good thing.
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Postby spectabillis » Fri Sep 24, 2004 3:52 pm

Markov Chaney wrote:Well, unless someone other than the operator of your car was on the PA it was certainly one of your campmembers heckling me. And since the heckler specifically said "Another succumbs to our great strobe lights" or some such, I expect that my being blinded wasn't an isolated incident. So don't shirk blame.


That would add insult to injury, sorry it happened to you.
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Postby spectabillis » Fri Sep 24, 2004 3:53 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:Dang it seems that the entire e-playa doesn't realize that MTVers are our supuriors in every way and that us poor schmucks are lucky that they deign to grace our dreary little event that has so little to recommend it. We are in revolt against the natural order of the universe.


Viva la revolucion!
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