Why Are We Compelled to Cast Blame…

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Re: Why Are We Compelled to Cast Blame…

Postby gyre » Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:59 pm

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Re: Why Are We Compelled to Cast Blame…

Postby glitter-mouse » Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:50 am

OregonRed wrote:
48_love wrote:Not a single positive post

that's the measure of this 'community'. you deserve it. please continue.
Last edited by glitter-mouse on Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:53 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Why Are We Compelled to Cast Blame…

Postby glitter-mouse » Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:52 am

Isotopia wrote:
eat shit, your rat dog.

It would appear that some young man's high school just got internet connectivity and that he's using it to act out based on his mom's choice of his eye wear.

the trolls who have long since dismissed this hipster-fest have walked away to leave this place to people like you: cultural parasites
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Re: Why Are We Compelled to Cast Blame…

Postby AntiM » Tue Mar 20, 2012 5:01 am

Ah, eloquence is more fun than crude name calling, isn't it?
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Re: Why Are We Compelled to Cast Blame…

Postby trilobyte » Tue Mar 20, 2012 7:58 am

Enough with the name-calling and personal attacks, please.
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Re: Why Are We Compelled to Cast Blame…

Postby oneeyeddick » Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:01 am

No matter what you call it a pile of dog shit still smells the same.
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Re: Why Are We Compelled to Cast Blame…

Postby junglesmacks » Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:18 am

It all starts with feeding the trolls.


Please, don't feed the trolls.
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Re: Why Are We Compelled to Cast Blame…

Postby Jackass » Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:31 am

Here, try some of this...
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Don't worry, it'll get weird...
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Re: Why Are We Compelled to Cast Blame…

Postby mshaman » Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:33 am

Hrm, I'm not comfortable dropping into name-calling here, so I'd like to return to iso's original post in my comments: I'm really ambivalent about it. I think you're really right about the tendency to vilify others when we don't get what we want, and that nothing was going to make sure we all got tickets this year. It seems very clear that burner consciousness has gone mainstream just like alternative music did in the '90's and now, like then, the counter-culture has an identity crisis where it realizes it's no longer counter, but rather, mainstream.

I also agree that greed wasn't a driver and that the BMOrg was probably well-intended.

But I think there are two things that people are angry about, only one of which is controlled by the Org: 1. they didn't get a ticket 2. the process was broken.

Indeed, the demand side of the equation was out of the BMOrg's control and most of the blame-casting should go away right there.

But the ticket fulfillment process was in BMOrg's control, and it was one of the most ill-conceived and poorly executed implementations I've ever seen. It points to a deep dysfunction in the BMOrg, a naive sort of narcissism, where someone thinks they know better because they don't in fact understand the problem. Then when it goes to hell, they're in pain and don't understand why. That was the stage where someone close to the org said that "some one had opened a can of super-freak-out in the office" after 25% of the core contributors got tickets. It's cool to have a disdain for formalized business methodology and training until you need it, and BMOrg never appeared to recognize that it was completely out of its depth. What happened behind the scenes I can't say.

I still emphatically believe that responsible policy from a competent policy-making body could have mitigated the drama by a) stopping scalping and hoarding, and more importantly b) getting the process done quickly and cleanly so that people don't have time to fester in their lack-of-ticket-ness and the wondering what will happen in the next capricious step of the process whose rules are changing as they go. If there is blame to be had for BMOrg, it isn't for increased ticket demand (that is an indicator if its success, in a sense), it is for naivete and arrogance in its initial response, and in not being humble enough to get in seasoned help when it saw a problem coming.

It will take years for BMOrg to rebuild the trust and credibility it lost in this year's ticket process.
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Re: Why Are We Compelled to Cast Blame…

Postby junglesmacks » Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:37 am

mshaman wrote:I think you're really right about the tendency to vilify others when we don't get what we want, and that nothing was going to make sure we all got tickets this year.


You started out correctly.. maybe there's hope..


mshaman wrote:But the ticket fulfillment process was in BMOrg's control, and it was one of the most ill-conceived and poorly executed implementations I've ever seen. It points to a deep dysfunction in the BMOrg, a naive sort of narcissism, where someone thinks they know better because they don't in fact understand the problem.


..but then digressed into this gibberish.. which proves that you still just.. don't.. get it.. and it's ironic that you come to this thread to cast more blame.
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Re: Why Are We Compelled to Cast Blame…

Postby mshaman » Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:55 am

junglesmacks wrote:
mshaman wrote:But the ticket fulfillment process was in BMOrg's control, and it was one of the most ill-conceived and poorly executed implementations I've ever seen. It points to a deep dysfunction in the BMOrg, a naive sort of narcissism, where someone thinks they know better because they don't in fact understand the problem.


You just.. don't.. get it.. and it's ironic that you come to this thread to cast more blame.


@Junglesmacks, The title of the thread is "Why are We Compelled to Cast Blame", a veritable invitation to do precisely that (which may have incited some of the trolling in the thread). For 4 pages, I refrained from "casting blame", until I could identify what resonated as true and not true for me in the original post.

I think it is reasonable to look at the initial post analytically and realize that yes, while I resonate with the sentiment and that much of the post is comprised of statements that I find to be true, that in fact not all of them are. I don't agree that entirety of the problem was out of everyone's control. Identifying a cause is a prerequisite to a solution, that's problem-solving. Sorry you don't agree with that sentiment.

I also believe that articulating a viewpoint without resorting to name-calling is a good thing. Given that you didn't call me a rube, you only implied it, makes me think we are at least in partial agreement on that sentiment.
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Re: Why Are We Compelled to Cast Blame…

Postby junglesmacks » Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:07 am

Lol.. no name calling needed and I was not inferring you to be a "rube" in the least. Simply saying that while on one hand you seem to jive with the original intent of the OP with regards to the second guessing and finger pointing, yet then ironically state that
It points to a deep dysfunction in the BMOrg, a naive sort of narcissism,where someone thinks they know better because they don't in fact understand the problem.


The latter section I find the most amusing. I don't think that it's the BMOrg that doesn't understand the problem here.. I think it's you.


More people now want to go to Burning Man than there are tickets available.


THAT is the problem. Not a "deep dysfunction in the BMOrg" nor a "naive sort of narcissism". Cast blame, call names, point fingers.. but in the end, it's simply a matter of demand outstripping supply and on a magnitude that no one could have or did predict. No one. The BMOrg did the best they could with the information and projections that they were given. Deep dysfunctions and/or naive sorts of narcissism.. not so much.
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Re: Why Are We Compelled to Cast Blame…

Postby lbhat » Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:47 am

glitter-mouse wrote:the trolls who have long since dismissed this hipster-fest have walked away to leave this place to people like you: cultural parasites


So you put your two tickets into the STEP program?
Thanks..
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Re: Why Are We Compelled to Cast Blame…

Postby wh..sh » Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:55 am

glitter-mouse wrote:eat shit, your rat dog.

Not to divert from all the wonderful contribution to this thread... but, is it "your rat dog?", "you are rat dog?", or "you rat dog?"
I want to be sure before I feel offended. Thanks.
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Re: Why Are We Compelled to Cast Blame…

Postby junglesmacks » Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:02 am

Please.. don't.. feed.. the.. trolls.
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Re: Why Are We Compelled to Cast Blame…

Postby ygmir » Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:05 am

wh..sh wrote:
glitter-mouse wrote:eat shit, your rat dog.

Not to divert from all the wonderful contribution to this thread... but, is it "your rat dog?", "you are rat dog?", or "you rat dog?"
I want to be sure before I feel offended. Thanks.


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Re: Why Are We Compelled to Cast Blame…

Postby wh..sh » Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:08 am

ygmir wrote:
wh..sh wrote:
glitter-mouse wrote:eat shit, your rat dog.

Not to divert from all the wonderful contribution to this thread... but, is it "your rat dog?", "you are rat dog?", or "you rat dog?"
I want to be sure before I feel offended. Thanks.


google "Pink Flamingo dog scene* but, be careful if you're at work!! NSFW

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Re: Why Are We Compelled to Cast Blame…

Postby mshaman » Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:31 am

junglesmacks wrote:Lol.. no name calling needed and I was not inferring you to be a "rube" in the least. Simply saying that while on one hand you seem to jive with the original intent of the OP with regards to the second guessing and finger pointing, yet then ironically state that
It points to a deep dysfunction in the BMOrg, a naive sort of narcissism,where someone thinks they know better because they don't in fact understand the problem.


The latter section I find the most amusing. I don't think that it's the BMOrg that doesn't understand the problem here.. I think it's you.


More people now want to go to Burning Man than there are tickets available.


THAT is the problem. Not a "deep dysfunction in the BMOrg" nor a "naive sort of narcissism". Cast blame, call names, point fingers.. but in the end, it's simply a matter of demand outstripping supply and on a magnitude that no one could have or did predict. No one. The BMOrg did the best they could with the information and projections that they were given. Deep dysfunctions and/or naive sorts of narcissism.. not so much.


I do jive with the original intent of the OP on one hand: I totally agree that more people want to go than there are tickets for and that even perfect execution wouldn't have gotten everyone a ticket. I actually started a thread about that very issue a week or so after the start of the ticket debacle, and I'm painfully aware of the radical increase in demand.

At the same time, I don't think the BMOrg can be dismissed from accountability in the issues where it did in fact, have control: Much of the bad mojo around the shortage could've been mitigated by a rational process that was done quickly and cleanly without dragging it out, without leaving project planners hanging for months, without rewarding bad behavior (scalping, hoarding) through bad policy. I am reluctant to go into why I find the BMOrg's approach naive, narcissistic, and dysfunctional because I have already outlined the reasons in other posts. It's a conclusion that I've reached after studying the pattern created by policy decisions and structure of the corporation for several years, and having served in strategic positions in companies, some smaller, and some larger than BMOrg in annual revenue. No skilled, trained, policy-maker I've met would've made the calls BMOrg made this year. If you want me to support my assertions I can do so very articulately with specific examples in a different thread or PM's.

My intent this thread was to say "Yes, casting blame willy-nilly won't solve anything, some factors are uncontrollable (elephant in the room: demand), but some factors could have indeed been controlled, and we can't just absolve everyone of responsibility for their contribution to the situation.", not to get in to the details of the decision making patterns that led me to conclude dysfunctionality in the BMOrg.
Last edited by mshaman on Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why Are We Compelled to Cast Blame…

Postby OregonRed » Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:34 am

junglesmacks wrote:Lol.. no name calling needed and I was not inferring you to be a "rube" in the least. Simply saying that while on one hand you seem to jive with the original intent of the OP with regards to the second guessing and finger pointing, yet then ironically state that
It points to a deep dysfunction in the BMOrg, a naive sort of narcissism,where someone thinks they know better because they don't in fact understand the problem.


The latter section I find the most amusing. I don't think that it's the BMOrg that doesn't understand the problem here.. I think it's you.


More people now want to go to Burning Man than there are tickets available.


THAT is the problem. Not a "deep dysfunction in the BMOrg" nor a "naive sort of narcissism". Cast blame, call names, point fingers.. but in the end, it's simply a matter of demand outstripping supply and on a magnitude that no one could have or did predict. No one. The BMOrg did the best they could with the information and projections that they were given. Deep dysfunctions and/or naive sorts of narcissism.. not so much.



JS, I really, really adore you. Thanks for keeping it cool.

mshaman, thank you too, for remaining cool.

The CO and I throw a tiny (comparatively) event in Oregon. When it got big enough that we could no longer get away with squatting on U.S. Forest, we realized that we would have to impose a limit to the number of attendees. Not just for the space issues (there are not a lot of flat, large, open areas in our neck of the woods) but for the realities of infrastructure and contractual obligations. When we reach that number there are no more tickets sold. Period. It's not that we don't want everyone to be able to experience our event, it's just knowing what we're capable of handling. The BOrg set their limits based on contractual obligations, infrastructure, and their ability to (literally) handle the shit.

When I started burning in 2001 we had around 27,000 citizens of BRC. Last year, my 11th Burn, we were over 50,000. The event has gotten more popular over the years as we have made it more and more amazing. I am the first to admit that I have mixed feelings about this. I love bringing out Birgins and seeing their reaction to my beloved home. I love the friends I have made over the years that I only see in BRC (that are somehow as important and dear to me as people I see every day) and the idea of not being able to experience either of those things makes me ache just a bit. But the reality is that everything changes. In fact, change is the only constant we've got.

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Re: Why Are We Compelled to Cast Blame…

Postby mshaman » Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:45 am

@OregonRed, yep, I'm helping with Apogaea (Colorado regional) and it's the same thing... limited by land and access. The ticket process worked well, though. Bwahah.
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Re: Why Are We Compelled to Cast Blame…

Postby Isotopia » Sat Mar 31, 2012 3:03 pm

and still the blame continues...
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Re: Why Are We Compelled to Cast Blame…

Postby wraith » Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:31 am

Isotopia wrote:and still the blame continues...


The factors that cause it haven't changed, so of course it does. It'll settle down some time around this time next year, assuming the ticketing process isn't once again trial-and-error testing.
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Re: Why Are We Compelled to Cast Blame…

Postby junglesmacks » Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:04 am

Disagree. As long as more people want to go than there are tickets, there will always be the jaded, pissed, conspiracy theory having, ticketing system hating, blaming crowd.

Blame is the new black..
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Re: Why Are We Compelled to Cast Blame…

Postby Isotopia » Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:30 am

Nah, blame is the new Elvis.

One either hates it or emulates it.
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Re: Why Are We Compelled to Cast Blame…

Postby Ratty » Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:25 pm

I have a rat terrier AND I'm changing my name. (I blame you.)
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Re: Why Are We Compelled to Cast Blame…

Postby OregonRed » Wed May 02, 2012 11:07 am

"We didn't say it was your fault. We said we were going to blame you."
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Re: Why Are We Compelled to Cast Blame…

Postby ygmir » Wed May 02, 2012 1:32 pm

OregonRed wrote:"We didn't say it was your fault. We said we were going to blame you."



Ah, quoting Ruby again?......HEY!! :!: :idea: :!: :idea:

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Re: Why Are We Compelled to Cast Blame…

Postby theCryptofishist » Wed May 02, 2012 4:03 pm

It's none of her business to provide you with masturbation fodder, yggy.
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Re: Why Are We Compelled to Cast Blame…

Postby ygmir » Wed May 02, 2012 4:30 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:It's none of her business to provide you with masturbation fodder, yggy.


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