How to approach an asshole

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Re: How to approach an asshole

Postby Drawingablank » Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:34 pm

jkisha wrote:
Simon of the Playa wrote:sue the bastard

Rediculous. I can't believe the company caved on this.

Yah serously - didn't see anything abut healthy, all it mentioned was taste. WTF is the world comng to if a frivolous lawsuit like this can win 3 mil uncontested?
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Re: How to approach an asshole

Postby Simon of the Playa » Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:59 pm

im suing sasha shulgin and his wife.


they told me it would make me a nice person.


i'm still a bitter asshole....WTF......Ecstasy my Ass.


ok bliss maybe, but the shit wasnt CALLED bliss...
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Re: How to approach an asshole

Postby wedeliver » Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:25 pm

Wow, you nailed it. From what I understand they did have a ticket that was close to $370. But the damn ticket he handed me was a bunch less then what he wanted and my brain seized up. Just the manner in which communication takes place sometimes, I walked, they drove and yes, I did overreact. But when it came to money being part of the transaction things went to hell. There is a lot of power in the dollar. Besides all that, I did not go and I was sooooo close. Yes I regret it and if I had it to do over again I would just pay.

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wedeliver wrote:Interesting thread, thought I would add my experience from last year. "Friends", people who live near me, who I talked into coming to BM a 3 years ago they were virgins.. last year he called me and said he had a $370.00 ticket and could I sell it for him. I tried, the posts are there and I almost did sell, it. But since no one was able to make it here to get the ticket I told him I would buy it. He came here, I filled up his crew with water, loaned them a 50 gallon drum and then he handed me the ticket. It said something like $240.00 on it. I asked him what he was doing? I mean fuck, someone might have driven a few hundred miles here on my word and then found out that he was asking for more then what he had paid. So, that kinda bothered me an instead of trying to work it out I just handed him the ticket back, said I couldn't afford it, thanks anyway, let him borrow my 50 gallon water jug and just went inside and cried for the next week, I am such a baby... but for the couple seconds that I had that ticket in my hand......oh well.


I had a similar experience. Last year we had, as TTITD approached, three or four tickets to find a home. Regardless of the face value of the ticket, our average price was something like $300 per. Some were more, some less, but it was impossible to differentiate them because they were purchased at a set average price. So some people paid $300 for a $340 ticket, some paid $300 for a $260 ticket. But in the end it all was the same. So simply because there's a price listed on the ticket doesn't in and of itself mean that's what that ticket actually cost. Nobody seemed to care one way or the other, they got a fair price and knew nobody was profiting from the transaction. You may have overreacted.
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Re: How to approach an asshole

Postby BBadger » Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:20 pm

Drawingablank wrote:
jkisha wrote:
Simon of the Playa wrote:sue the bastard

Rediculous. I can't believe the company caved on this.

Yah serously - didn't see anything abut healthy, all it mentioned was taste. WTF is the world comng to if a frivolous lawsuit like this can win 3 mil uncontested?


I dunno about that. I remember when I saw the commercial for the first time I thought it was making some pretty ridiculous portrayals about how "healthy" that chocolate desert spread is for breakfast. I think you'd have to be pretty dull to think that something like Nutella is any better than a spreadable candybar, but the commercial's portrayal of the product was akin to that bleach-toothed Paula Deen saying her butter bars are a part of a healthy breakfast--if spread all over whole wheat toast.

Even though the commercial was deceptive in my mind, I'm not sure if a lawsuit was really in order. I'm betting that Nutella didn't contest the claim because it'd just make them look like they're admitting to deceptive advertisement. In the end, the lawyers won out, and everyone who files a claim gets a whole $4 or something.
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Re: How to approach an asshole

Postby jkisha » Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:44 pm

I'm all for truth in advertising, and I watched that commercial...whole wheat bread, glass of OJ in the background, and a small amount of Nutella spread on the bread. Probably, all in all, not that unhealthy. But that being said, I'm not so much defending the commercial as I am condemning the stupidity of the mom. Again, someone obviously that would obviouslu not have been able to get a licence to have a child if there was a qualification test required. She couldn't read the label? Who doesn't read labels these days? Not to even mention who believes anything they see on a TV commercial? Oh, right I forgot, everyone that votes in this country.
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Re: How to approach an asshole

Postby wedeliver » Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:15 pm

I have no idea what Nutella is but some parents need all the help they can to get their kids to eat. So I expect that the folks who made the stuff where trying to fill a void they saw. At least you can get the whole wheat into the child, where without this taste incentive the child would not eat. Meals in some houses with small children can be battle times. I wonder if a defense with that angle was used or not.
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Re: How to approach an asshole

Postby Drawingablank » Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:36 pm

Well if showing some healty food in a commercial for a food product that is less healty is deceptive and worth 3 million - most of us are deserving of a similar settlement.

I saw my car in an commercial with a handsome young man and a supermodel, yet when I bought it I neither became young and handsome nor attracted the attention of a single super model.

I bought a bottle of Amoretto, yet managed to drink the whole thing without any beautiful young women around.

I bought a box of Captain Crunch Cereal, yet no cartoon captain visited me at breakfast - not even once.

Seriously by the logic that commercial was deceptive, virtually all commercials should be nothing but a photo of the product. If the product in question was eggs the same logic could be applied - eggs have cholesterol yet it is ok to show eggs or for that matter bacon or butter with healthier foods.

All advertising is deceptive - but where do you draw the line.
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Re: How to approach an asshole

Postby Thorormr » Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:00 pm

remi wrote:
Drawingablank wrote:If he's a friend why not just have a real unscripted dialog with him about it.

Personally I would skip pointing out the party line, scalping policy, best practice, forum threads, and all the jargon and just let him know that I was dissappointed that he thinks so little of the burner culture (that both you and him are a part of) that he would actually scalp tickets.

Friend or not, he probably will be more resistant if you try to lecture or educate him.

Beyond that it comes down to deciding if your friendship is worth accepting his decision or not.


Thanks for the Input db... This sounds like a really good approach.


After reading and pondering, this is what I think is the best way to go about it. Skip all the background info, cut right to telling him you're disappointed in the state of his ethics. Or his integrity if he insists the girlfriend wants that much out of the tickets. I would tell him I hope he gets everything he's asking for, financially and otherwise. (Karma, right?) I'd recommend selling them through STEP, then drop the issue entirely, and steer everyone I knew away from his tickets. And personally I wouldn't hang out with him and only speak to him sporadically until after the Man falls. However if I did find out he was selling them on ebay or craigslist (ie publicly) then I'd turn it in. So long as it was completely private I wouldn't turn him, that's the one "get out of jail" card, but it also means I need to reconsider the value of that friendship.
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Re: How to approach an asshole

Postby BBadger » Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:40 pm

Drawingablank wrote:I bought a box of Captain Crunch Cereal, yet no cartoon captain visited me at breakfast - not even once.


Or how about the cereal that is "part of a balanced breakfast" that includes a glass of milk, some orange juice, three slices of whole wheat bread, a banana, some eggs, a protein shake, a bagel with lox on it, etc. What kid really eats more than the cereal itself for breakfast?

Those Nilla Wafers too... I was always pissed they never had the whipped cream that they showed on the box.
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Re: How to approach an asshole

Postby wedeliver » Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:12 am

Just thought I would add these thoughts to this thread. First I don't think informing the BMORG would do anything. If the OP's friend holds a physical ticket I don't think there is anyway to cancel it. And think about the person that might pay $1,200 for a ticket and they get to the gate and are told they can't use it since they paided to much.. nah. that ain't happinin. So.. Like our good friend and very reasonable voice above Pyro inferred, your friend probably has a good reason for his thinking. If you don't like his deal, buy a ticket somewhere else, I hope that some folks who have to change their plans will offer their tickets for cost plus shipping. I guess I might even be looking for a ticket if some stars fall into line. Then it will be constantly watching for the tickets coming up for sale. Good Luck
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Re: How to approach an asshole

Postby theCryptofishist » Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:20 am

Right now nobody has a physical ticket.
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Re: How to approach an asshole

Postby delle » Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:01 am

Drawingablank wrote:I saw my car in an commercial with a handsome young man and a supermodel, yet when I bought it I neither became young and handsome nor attracted the attention of a single super model.


Have I got the car for you!!

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Re: How to approach an asshole

Postby pink » Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:42 pm

Fucking priceless! Was that a real ad? Please tell me it was.
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Re: How to approach an asshole

Postby delle » Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:35 pm

Yeeeeeup. Real.

I blacked out his phone number at the bottom out of respect for the seller. ....or whoever ends up with his number after he inevitably has to get it changed...
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Re: How to approach an asshole

Postby pink » Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:58 pm

Reminds me of one I saw on eBay where a guy was selling his ex-wife's wedding dress. The copy had me rolling. He even modeled it since someone "told him pictures would help it sell better".

He sold it for much more than he was asking.
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Re: How to approach an asshole

Postby remi » Tue May 01, 2012 2:23 pm

Well.. Talked to the selling couple, and explained to them why I thought what they were doing was wrong, and they explained that their reasons for selling 2 presale tickets (420$) for 1,300$ is because they rounded up the ticket cost to 900$ then they assumed interest on their cc since then is another couple hundred (when infact it's probably on closer to 20$ worth of interest.) And then you have to take into account that they have many friends who would love to purchase both these tickets off them for around 1000$.

Their question was how else can you decide fairly which friends you sell these tickets too? Whoever is willing to pay more should get them, is what there thought was. Again, I disagreed because if someone can afford 2000$, what make them a more deserving person to go to the Burn. I would rather see the ticket go to someone who will contribute to the community, and without the help of Sean selling him a ticket for cost, this person would not be able to go.

Because they were suppose to go to the burn with me, they said they wouldn't mind selling the tickets to a friend of mine that would come down and contribute to our camp like they would, for a smaller price then 1,200 instead of 1,300. I still don't think they see the point.

Also, they don't want to sell it to Ben, because over the weekend Ben confronted them an a very confrontational way, telling them that pretty much what we are all thinking. What they are doing to not cool and against the moral fibres of burning man. Lets just say he bitched them out.. which is a good way to not get a ticket. I'm still confused about how to approach this situation now. They don't care about the gifting community part... and they would rather just have a "whichever friend will pay the most will get the ticket". They said they won't sell it until they get the ticket in hand.. so I still have a couple months to work on them.
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Re: How to approach an asshole

Postby jkisha » Tue May 01, 2012 2:36 pm

Don't waste your time
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Re: How to approach an asshole

Postby theCryptofishist » Tue May 01, 2012 3:47 pm

The generosity of and participation in the community may not make sense to someone who's never been, and so appealing to that sense didn't work. They may have been shocked into rigidity by Ben's approach, and read you as another attack. I'm with jk here, the possibility of convincing them is slim.
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Re: How to approach an asshole

Postby mshaman » Tue May 01, 2012 7:47 pm

Seems like you're at the juncture where you must a) let the situation go, accepting that they just don't get burner philosophy because they have never been or b) let the whole relationship go because their values are so inconsistent with your own. I'll be interested to see which route you choose.
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Re: How to approach an asshole

Postby Simon of the Playa » Tue May 01, 2012 8:40 pm

shut up. hippy.
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Re: How to approach an asshole

Postby Eric » Tue May 01, 2012 8:55 pm

I'm also in agreement with JK- continuing to try to convince them is just going to shred the friendship more.

I would, however, let them know that if they decide to go in the future that they will not be camping with you, and they're on their own to get ready.



Edit: missed a word. oops.
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Re: How to approach an asshole

Postby graidawg » Tue May 01, 2012 11:28 pm

what Eric said
completely unconcerned.
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Re: How to approach an asshole

Postby catinthefunnyhat » Wed May 02, 2012 5:39 am

remi: I'm sorry it worked out this way :(

Maybe they'll come around on their own. Maybe not. Thanks for doing the right thing, even though it involved some risk for you.
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Re: How to approach an asshole

Postby Drawingablank » Wed May 02, 2012 10:43 am

Well you tried to do the right thing, but if you wish to continue the friendship it's time to back off.

If they don't get it by now, they probably never will and I agree with Eric in that I would have serious reservations about having someone like that with my camp in the future.
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Re: How to approach an asshole

Postby theCryptofishist » Wed May 02, 2012 11:09 am

Well, we've got a solid front of people who agree. except for Simon, I'm not sure what he's saying.
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Re: How to approach an asshole

Postby remi » Wed May 02, 2012 1:00 pm

Again.. Thanks for all your input guys. I guess some people just don't get it.

At least I tried, and I tried my hardest without damaging our friendship. At least I feel good about doing my part.

Just before he gets his ticket in the mail I may touch on it again to see where he's at. I'm just dissapointed. Oh well.. time to spend 8 days in Cabo for my brothers wedding.

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Re: How to approach an asshole

Postby 48_love » Wed May 02, 2012 2:32 pm

My friend's aren't perfect, and when they actlke douchebags, I tell them.

I could see you doing the same.

"Look, you're going to do whatever you are going to do, but I just have to say: scalping those tickets is a total douchebag of a thing to do, and it shows you really don't get it. That's cool, though. I just thought you needed to know that it is a total douche move on your part to profit off of someone else's desperation to participate in this event - adding zero value along the way. I hope you consider not attending in the future because you are basically a fraud. Do you need a beer?"
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Re: How to approach an asshole

Postby RevDusty » Wed May 02, 2012 3:22 pm

And then I'd piss in his beer.
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Re: How to approach an asshole

Postby 5280MeV » Wed May 02, 2012 3:48 pm

Maybe I am playing devil's advocate a bit, but taking off the dust coated goggles...

Shipping to Canada is $29 (I assume that they are your fellow Canucks), fees are $7, and I will assume an approximately 20% APR on the credit card with 8 billing cycles before they can finally have the tickets dumped and the card paid off. The ticket cost becomes:

(420 + 7 + 29) * 2 * ((1 + (0.184 / 12))^8) = $1030.06

Then he has to make the effort to either find a buyer and ship it himself, or use stubhub or something like that. Stubhub makes it easy but takes a 15% commission, so now he needs $1184 to break even if he uses that route.

All in all, selling a $456 ticket for a sold out event at $650 is really not that far above break even, especially considering all the various shipping costs, fees, and such that are going to accompany the sale - or risks if he chooses not to use a secured market with fees.

Furthermore, he could likely sell these tickets for more than that.

Is he STEPing? Nope. Is he milking it for all it is worth? Definitely not.

If he sells for $1300 then I think he owes the city approximately 61 lbs of bacon to cover his profit. Demand this as tribute if he asks to camp with you in the future. Let me know when you all start cooking.
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Re: How to approach an asshole

Postby BBadger » Thu May 03, 2012 4:38 am

But that's not the situation. Sean explicitly stated that he's going to "fairly" sell the ticket to whomever pays the most. In my mind, the "face-value + overhead" as the price is perfectly fine as a "face-value"-type sale, but in this context it sounds like rationalizing. Also, if he's selling these tickets to friends, he wouldn't need work the reseller fee into the price, because he'd get the money directly as cash. So fundamentally, it's not about breaking even. Rather it's about making a profit--on his friends no less.
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