Double Secret Probation

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Double Secret Probation

Postby Just_Joe » Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:06 am

A circulating AP article says that Burning Man is on "probation" for exceeding the population cap last year.
http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-new ... crowd-size

I'l bet the "notice of noncompliance" they talk about makes for some interesting reading. I wish I could find it...
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Re: Double Secret Probation

Postby MyDearFriend » Sun Apr 22, 2012 8:51 am

:shock:

really
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Re: Double Secret Probation

Postby theCryptofishist » Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:25 am

Isn't Mr. Cole the guy who burnt the Contessa?
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Re: Double Secret Probation

Postby jkisha » Sun Apr 22, 2012 10:17 am

No, that was Michael Stewart, I believe.

Probation? Interesting.
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Re: Double Secret Probation

Postby theCryptofishist » Sun Apr 22, 2012 10:35 am

Aha. Thanks.
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Re: Double Secret Probation

Postby theCryptofishist » Sun Apr 22, 2012 10:42 am

I'm not surprised. Or not really surprised.
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Re: Double Secret Probation

Postby jkisha » Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:44 am

What I find most interesting is that BLM is able to take such an accurate count. It makes me wonder about all the tales I've heard about how BMORG has been lying about the population count for years. I guess they couldn't have under padded the numbers if BLM can take such an accurate count as to be able to put them on probation.
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Re: Double Secret Probation

Postby TomServo » Sun Apr 22, 2012 12:34 pm

For the BLM to be taking action against us, they must have their own bean counting system. If so, are they counting the folks leaving the event and then returning? Are they accurately distinguishing regular burners from vendors, LEOs, public officials, etc...? Or, did they pull this out of their ass, as an excuse to jack up our permit fees?
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Re: Double Secret Probation

Postby Bob » Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:03 pm

You haven't seen the black helicopters doing daily flyovers?
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Re: Double Secret Probation

Postby TomServo » Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:27 pm

Never did use drugs.
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Re: Double Secret Probation

Postby theCryptofishist » Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:33 pm

jkisha wrote:What I find most interesting is that BLM is able to take such an accurate count. It makes me wonder about all the tales I've heard about how BMORG has been lying about the population count for years. I guess they couldn't have under padded the numbers if BLM can take such an accurate count as to be able to put them on probation.

Yeah, the two different counts that the llc supposedly do (one for BLM, one for...Santa Claus?) was one of the things I wasn't saying. And then the BLM does its own count. Does anyone else remember the arguments about the NPS counts of demonstrators on the Mall in Washington D.C.? I don't even know if they are two counts. Or if it's an on-going procedure. I wonder about those sorts of rumors that spread through the burn. I pretty much don't repeat them, because I have no idea if they are true, or if they are a way for some burners to reclaim some sort of mental space around the idea of the gov'ment's being involved in any way with the burn, or if my repeating it, especially in a space like eplaya where it's there forever, or at least until the llc decides to, or is forced to pull the plug... I just don't want to be involved in that.

I would say that if the BLM is saying that there were too many people, then they should have a counting method that they are solidly behind. Of course, they could be fools.
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Re: Double Secret Probation

Postby BBadger » Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:58 pm

The 2011 permit was a special 1-year permit with terms stating that the population was not to exceed 50,000--not the 6% growth allowance of the previous 5-year permit. However, from the population growth graph, it looks like 2011's population had grown as if the 6% growth allowance were extended to 2011. BMOrg may have been treating the permit as "business as usual"--not something based on the actual wording of the 1-year permit that stated that the population has a maximum of 50,000. The 50,000 cap on 2011 should have resulted in a recorded population that looked much like the resulting population of 2010, not 2,500 more people.
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Re: Double Secret Probation

Postby jkisha » Sun Apr 22, 2012 2:20 pm

Speculation.
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Re: Double Secret Probation

Postby dr.placebo » Mon Apr 23, 2012 2:15 pm

The 2011 population stipulation, taken from http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medialib/blm/nv/field_offices/winnemucca_field_office/nepa/recreation/0.Par.49008.File.dat/2011%20SRP%20Stips.pdf, is
Black Rock City, LLC (BRC) is required to manage its advance ticket sales and on-site ticket sales in such a manner that the safety infrastructural resources of the event, which are designed to handle an average of 50,000 participants per day for the eight-day event, are not overtaxed, and that NEPA concerns from the 2006 Environmental Assessment are not compromised. If during the event it appears that the peak population is likely to exceed BRC’s ability to provide adequate infrastructural resources, then BRC will promptly notify BLM of the projected event population and provide detailed contingency plans for how to handle the additional participants. BRC shall provide the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) with the number of participants within the event site at noon each day according to an agreed upon reporting standard with BLM during the period of site occupancy (August 8th through September 19th). For historical purposes and press inquiries, BRC shall also provide BLM with the recorded peak population for the entire event. BLM can request population data any time during the event. BRC shall also provide BLM with detailed information of the number of staff and participants on the event site for the August 8th through September 19th period within 60 days after the event. This information shall include daily counts for the non-event period.


In that stipulation there is no place that sets an absolute cap. On the other hand, the official letter about the permit, taken from http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medialib/blm/nv/field_offices/winnemucca_field_office/nepa/recreation/0.Par.49008.File.dat/2011%20SRP%20Stips.pdf, does state "a maximum of 50000 participants", but does not define the method used or refer to consequences.

From my naive reading (IANAL), there is enough wiggle room for an appeal. But the BLM holds the trump cards anyway.
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Re: Double Secret Probation

Postby Ugly Dougly » Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:55 pm

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Re: Double Secret Probation

Postby knowmad » Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:34 pm

so, I can has more ticis?
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Re: Double Secret Probation

Postby oneeyeddick » Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:02 pm

Well, I hope we don't have to wear ankle moniters.
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Re: Double Secret Probation

Postby Eric » Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:46 am

oneeyeddick wrote:Well, I hope we don't have to wear ankle moniters.


No monitors, just Perimeter getting tall guard towers at every angle of BRC, everyone has to wear something with stripes & to enter BRC we all pass through Gate under a sign that says "Feuer macht frei".
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Re: Double Secret Probation

Postby MyDearFriend » Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:54 pm

Eric wrote:
oneeyeddick wrote:Well, I hope we don't have to wear ankle moniters.


No monitors, just Perimeter getting tall guard towers at every angle of BRC, everyone has to wear something with stripes & to enter BRC we all pass through Gate under a sign that says "Feuer macht frei".


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Re: Double Secret Probation

Postby junglesmacks » Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:57 pm

I heard the shower soaps are to die for.
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Re: Double Secret Probation

Postby Mojojita » Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:10 pm

I had an encounter with the "counters" last year - they were literally walking around the city and counting the people/camps, road by road. I remember laughing that there is no way for such a counting method to be anywhere near accurate. I asked them what they were doing and was told they were counting the population. These people were hot and tired and not interesting enough to have been anything but what they said they were, so no - it wasn't performance art.
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Re: Double Secret Probation

Postby Elorrum » Wed Apr 25, 2012 2:20 pm

Isn't there some durable (week long) kind of dye we can be dipped in so we don't get counted twice?
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Re: Double Secret Probation

Postby Savannah » Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:03 pm

Mojojita wrote:I had an encounter with the "counters" last year - they were literally walking around the city and counting the people/camps, road by road. I remember laughing that there is no way for such a counting method to be anywhere near accurate. I asked them what they were doing and was told they were counting the population. These people were hot and tired and not interesting enough to have been anything but what they said they were, so no - it wasn't performance art.


Whaaaaaaat? :shock: You're right, that's hilarious. A small camp--if they're home, & there's a good chance they won't be--might be accurate, unless they're . . . annoyed, suspicious, anti-authority, or high. A larger camp, accustomed to a little bureaucracy, might try and fail, even if cooperative--having lost a dozen folks from final roster to opening day, or absorbing a few strangers. And only a few people in camp actually know close to the real answer, and when asked nosy questions, may give a horrified look & holler "Are you from Placement?!" and refuse to come down from their scaffolding . . . :lol: There aren't even always obvious visual physical boundaries where one camp ends and another begins. Surely a few camps were counted twice when two people from the same meandering village were asked.

. . . Now I'm thinking of this scene between Tim Meadows (the census taker) and Christopher Walken.

"Hi."
"Mr. Leonard, I'm with the US Census bureau. We sent you a census form, but you failed to return it."
"My mail has piled up like crazy."
"Yeah, well . . . I just need to fill out this census form with you."
"Great."
"Okay, um . . . how many people live in this residence?"
"Oh boy . . . that's a good question. I'm bad with numbers. Maybe . . . eighty."
"Eighty people live in this apartment?"
"Seems high . . . doesn't it. Not eighty. How bout four? I don't know. I'm so bad at guesstimating."
"Well, just take your time and count."
"Okay. There's me, my wife, our plants . . . we have some candy bars."
"Well, you know . . . we don't count candy bars or plants."
"Yeah? Then there's just the two of us. Boy . . . I really overshot it with the eighty."


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Re: Double Secret Probation

Postby wedeliver » Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:31 pm

I did not read the entire thread but I think what might have helped jack up the numbers last year, from what I have heard on the back side, is all the vendors needed to have a ticket. The guy who delivers shit to a bunch of camps, such as gas, propane etc needed to have a ticket last year. Prior years, at the very worst it was an escort in and out. Personally if this is correct and vendors were counted as particpants that is wrong and should be fixed.
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Re: Double Secret Probation

Postby AntiM » Fri Aug 03, 2012 6:16 am

MyDearFriend wrote:
Eric wrote:
oneeyeddick wrote:Well, I hope we don't have to wear ankle moniters.


No monitors, just Perimeter getting tall guard towers at every angle of BRC, everyone has to wear something with stripes & to enter BRC we all pass through Gate under a sign that says "Feuer macht frei".


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Re: Double Secret Probation

Postby theCryptofishist » Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:09 am

oneeyeddick wrote:Well, I hope we don't have to wear ankle moniters.


Eric wrote: No monitors, just Perimeter getting tall guard towers at every angle of BRC, everyone has to wear something with stripes & to enter BRC we all pass through Gate under a sign that says "Feuer macht frei".


MyDearFriend wrote:Please leave your shoes outside the BDC shower.


AntiM wrote:Art project: a box of shoes outside the BDC shower. Add more pairs to it each day.

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Re: Double Secret Probation

Postby Ugly Dougly » Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:10 am

How big would The Man's handcuffs be if he was under arrest?
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Re: Double Secret Probation

Postby FIGJAM » Fri Aug 03, 2012 12:08 pm

"Are you cumming quietly or do I have use..........









ear plugs!"







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Re: Double Secret Probation

Postby theCryptofishist » Fri Aug 03, 2012 2:34 pm

You can't tell it from dubstep anyway.
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Re: Double Secret Probation

Postby ZaphodBurner » Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:22 am

From now on, in order to keep things less confusing, Burners must use EITHER their reality-camp name OR their playa name, but never both.*

Fortunately, when they realized The Man was just an effigy, they allowed the BORG to release one more ticket, which, of course, was given to Daft Punk.

*This does not apply to the local Native American population.
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