Shower Evap Ponds during the windstorm

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Re: Shower Evap Ponds during the windstorm

Postby DoctorIknow » Sat Apr 07, 2012 8:57 pm

As said in this thread, just take the greywater home or to an RV dump station.

Dealing with evap ponds can be one of those burn moments you wish didn't exist.

DO tell your campmates to NOT bring those damned 2.5 gallon water jugs.

One saves 5cents buying them, but they do not compress well and CANNOT be re-used for greywater.
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This shower system below has worked very well for 10 years...same pool, too. The 5 gallon buckets can hold about 15 gallons of shower water until I use a funnel and pour the stuff (add one spoon bleach) into containers. Details of construction here:
https://picasaweb.google.com/DoctorIKno ... directlink


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Re: Shower Evap Ponds during the windstorm

Postby Trishntek » Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:43 pm

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Re: Shower Evap Ponds during the windstorm

Postby dragonpilot » Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:31 am

All this talk about showering and bathing...try going for a week without bathing...this is the perfect place to run that experiment. You might find out some interesting things about yourself...
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Re: Shower Evap Ponds during the windstorm

Postby illy dilly » Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:51 pm

dragonpilot wrote:All this talk about showering and bathing...try going for a week without bathing...this is the perfect place to run that experiment. You might find out some interesting things about yourself...

That is definitely worth a "Best Line Today"
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Re: Shower Evap Ponds during the windstorm

Postby EspressoDude » Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:08 pm

actually the 2.5 gallon containers work great for hauling water away if you do not spike a freakin hole in them to make them drain faster. If you bring shower water to the playa in a container, take the waste out in the same container. No swamp mess evap pond. no mud to drag hove unless you wand to mud wrassle when you get home.
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Re: Shower Evap Ponds during the windstorm

Postby TomServo » Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:15 pm

I'm all for hauling my waste water back home. Especially since I don't have a huge climb on the return trip. But..for the sake of science... I'm wondering out loud.. would a black steel pond accelerate evaporation more than a black plastic pond? My truck bed is already flat, so fitting it in with my gear wouldn't be a problem. The thought being..metal conducts heat better than plastics or rubbers... Foot burns wouldn't really be a problem, because WE REALLY SHOULDN'T BE WALKING THROUGH OTHER PEOPLE'S EVAP PONDS anyway. I would definitely reserve a 5 gallon bucket for the excess sludge....save it...make art out of it..
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Re: Shower Evap Ponds during the windstorm

Postby Trishntek » Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:03 am

I honestly think surface area trumps material. Less depth, more surface area, exposure to wind and sun, and black heats the water. Steel might hold the heat longer than plastic, but I'm not sure it would generate more heat assuming all other parameters are equal.

Our pond serves 30 campers, which has to be at least 4 square feet of surface area per camper. I'm going for 8'X16' this year.

We did have a lot of virgin CAMPERS (let alone burners) who used way too much water for dishes.

We are precooking more this year. and promoting a more efficient washing system.
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Re: Shower Evap Ponds during the windstorm

Postby TomServo » Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:31 am

The pan would be roughly 3 foot by 5 foot by 3 inches. Which would hold 28 gallons, if I did my math right. surface area was taken into consideration.
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Re: Shower Evap Ponds during the windstorm

Postby illy dilly » Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:47 am

TomServo wrote:I'm all for hauling my waste water back home. Especially since I don't have a huge climb on the return trip. But..for the sake of science... I'm wondering out loud.. would a black steel pond accelerate evaporation more than a black plastic pond? My truck bed is already flat, so fitting it in with my gear wouldn't be a problem. The thought being..metal conducts heat better than plastics or rubbers... Foot burns wouldn't really be a problem, because WE REALLY SHOULDN'T BE WALKING THROUGH OTHER PEOPLE'S EVAP PONDS anyway. I would definitely reserve a 5 gallon bucket for the excess sludge....save it...make art out of it..


Also, if you have a cat (or know someone that has a cat) save the jugs or tubs that cat litter comes in for the couple months before the burn. They make awesome disposable gray water containers. And since they aren't really great for much else, I really don't mind just throwing the whole thing away.
ImageImage

I'm pretty sure its all about surface area, ambient air humidity, and water vapor. If we wanted to we could get into the relationships between dew points, wet (and dry) bulb temperatures, and barometric pressure... But all that really matters is, the air is dry and will suck up plenty of moisture. The trick is exposing as much water to the air as possible. And, any way to help that water get closer to becoming vapor helps.
Which is why wicking materials and fountains work so dang well.
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Re: Shower Evap Ponds during the windstorm

Postby TomServo » Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:18 am

The playa is ideal for evaporation with the two crucial factors for evaporation..heat and lack of humidity. The purpose of the pond, is to expand the surface area..that we have. Wickets, towels, gizmos and such are great, but they're just more stuff. I'm trying to keep it simple, by using surface area and..in this case..as much HEAT as I can muster, without resorting to more stuff, ie; propane burners, burn barrels, etc... And while a 3x5 steel pan is pretty significant "stuff", it's still flat...and in the back of a truck, a minor addition to the bed liner,
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Re: Shower Evap Ponds during the windstorm

Postby illy dilly » Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:23 am

I'm with ya, completely. That last thing we wanted was more moving parts that could fail, and in turn mean more burn time spent fixing shit.
We use strips of old jeans, that hang from a bar that is about 18" above the water, and sit with their ends in the water. They wick up the water into the denim. Greatly, increasing surface area of the water. The sun hits all the denim and gets hot, while the wind blows across and helps the denim dry.
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Re: Shower Evap Ponds during the windstorm

Postby theCryptofishist » Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:57 am

illy dilly wrote:
dragonpilot wrote:All this talk about showering and bathing...try going for a week without bathing...this is the perfect place to run that experiment. You might find out some interesting things about yourself...

That is definitely worth a "Best Line Today"

All snark aside, the whole idea of showering everyday is very new, maybe the 70s. (Maybe that's just washing your hair every day. That's when the blow dryer was invented--the whole history of how norms change when tech changes is very interested, because it remains hidden from us.) My mother, still living, grew up in a everybody in the family has a bath on Saturday night situation. I guess that meant you were all clean for church on Sunday. I don't know how representative that is, but I'd be surprised if that weren't the norm before WWII. I'm guessing that bathing was something that increased with multiple bathrooms (and maybe shower stalls, instead of bathtubs) in the suburbs.
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Re: Shower Evap Ponds during the windstorm

Postby whiskeywhore » Sat Apr 14, 2012 5:08 pm

Our evaporation pond is 8 feet by 24, wood and plastic sheet. In the last 3 years, dust hasn't been a problem for us at all. With a little attention during the week, and stopping showers entirely on Sunday afternoon, we haven't had to pack out any gray water yet. The plastic sheet with the dried soap and such gets bagged and goes to the garbage, the wood we store for next year.
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Re: Shower Evap Ponds during the windstorm

Postby Bob » Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:05 pm

illy dilly wrote:....Also, if you have a cat (or know someone that has a cat) save the jugs or tubs that cat litter comes in for the couple months before the burn. They make awesome disposable gray water containers. And since they aren't really great for much else, I really don't mind just throwing the whole thing away....


Au contraire... they're great for tool storage, because they pack better side by side than paint buckets, and (at home) with the flip-up lids they're fantastic for the laundry detergent that you buy in plastic sacks.... but if I were standardizing bulk bunringman stowage in & out, I'd go with regular 5 gallon buckets or 55 gallon drums.
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Re: Shower Evap Ponds during the windstorm

Postby illy dilly » Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:46 pm

whiskeywhore wrote:Our evaporation pond is 8 feet by 24, wood and plastic sheet. In the last 3 years, dust hasn't been a problem for us at all. With a little attention during the week, and stopping showers entirely on Sunday afternoon, we haven't had to pack out any gray water yet. The plastic sheet with the dried soap and such gets bagged and goes to the garbage, the wood we store for next year.

Why so long and narrow? Is the plastic you use 8' wide?
Is it a building materials convenience thing, or is a long narrow evap pond more effective in some way?

Image

theCryptofishist wrote:
illy dilly wrote:
dragonpilot wrote:All this talk about showering and bathing...try going for a week without bathing...this is the perfect place to run that experiment. You might find out some interesting things about yourself...

That is definitely worth a "Best Line Today"

All snark aside, the whole idea of showering everyday is very new, maybe the 70s. (Maybe that's just washing your hair every day. That's when the blow dryer was invented--the whole history of how norms change when tech changes is very interested, because it remains hidden from us.) My mother, still living, grew up in a everybody in the family has a bath on Saturday night situation. I guess that meant you were all clean for church on Sunday. I don't know how representative that is, but I'd be surprised if that weren't the norm before WWII. I'm guessing that bathing was something that increased with multiple bathrooms (and maybe shower stalls, instead of bathtubs) in the suburbs.

Funny this should come up! at my second burn, I met another ginger kid. We started talking about all the crazy inventions in the last 30 years. He then went on to explain that after asking his grand folks "whats the most life changing invention in your life time?" Grandma decided "Running Hot Water." And if you think about it, running hot water is something that we take for granted everyday. I wouldn't be surprised if water usage in the US increased directly proportional to the amount of water heaters installed in homes.
Bob wrote:
illy dilly wrote:... And since they aren't really great for much else,


Au contraire... they're great for tool storage, because they pack better side by side than paint buckets, and (at home) with the flip-up lids they're fantastic for the laundry detergent that you buy in plastic sacks.... but if I were standardizing bulk bunringman stowage in & out, I'd go with regular 5 gallon buckets or 55 gallon drums.

Guess I never thought of using them for any of that! We've used them as tarp weights in the back yard, but thats about it. I suppose you could even use one to make a Fig Jam cooler.
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Re: Shower Evap Ponds during the windstorm

Postby whiskeywhore » Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:05 pm

Illy;

We build it 8x24 because 2x4's are 8 feet long, and the plastic sheet at Home depot comes 10x 25 feet.
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Re: Shower Evap Ponds during the windstorm

Postby StevenGoodman » Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:49 pm

I use the back of my pickup (black bed liner) as an evap pond. Anything else I take home in the container I brought it in. Since I brought it in, it is the same volume/weight to take home.

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