Hypothetical question...

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Hypothetical question...

Postby vachot » Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:30 am

So, I known this guy who didn't buy a ticket in time last year because he wasn't really motivated, and wouldn't have registered in time this year if I didn't remind him, but he did and sure enough, he got 2 tickets, while most of us planned, connived, strategized and performed a ritual ceremony for good fortune, and still lost out. Well, turns out that he has serious financial problems and doubts he's going this year; I suspect he wants to scalp both.

What I'm asking is, would we as the burning community, rather see him (1) sell the tickets for profit, probably to some desperate burner soul YEARNING to get dusty, or would we rather see (2) the tickets be used by him or someone else who is kinda ambivalent about the event but will go as long as they have a ticket?

Or, would we rather see (3) the tickets go to a theme camp that needs crew members to bring fire art to the playa, or would we rather see (4) them go to the STEP program?

I'm not judging, just asking.
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Re: Hypothetical question...

Postby catinthefunnyhat » Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:45 am

Personally, I'd like to see them go into the STEP program (but I might have a vested interest in that).

I think options 3 or 4 are both good. But I suspect you really want to know which of 1 or 2 is the lesser of two evils. Really, that's for more experienced burners than me to answer... but since ignorance has never stopped me from expressing an opinion, I'll say I prefer 2. I'm really bothered by scalping, and maybe if he's ambivalent about coming to BM, it's because he needs to learn something that only BM can teach him.
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Re: Hypothetical question...

Postby remi » Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:09 am

4..if he isn't going, then sell them to STEP. And if he wants to scalp them, you should report his name to the ticket police and they will pull his order and he gets' shit all.
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Re: Hypothetical question...

Postby FIGJAM » Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:11 am

Friends don't let friends sell BM tickets for more than face value!!! 8)
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Re: Hypothetical question...

Postby ygmir » Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:49 am

yup, I'd say sell for face value, or step.......or, turn him in and let the tickets be voided by the ORG.
If he wants accolades for "doing the right thing (face value, regardless of where or to whom)", he can even post here, and we'll pat him on the back.
He'd be an inspiration, to others, to "do the right thing".
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Re: Hypothetical question...

Postby mdmf007 » Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:37 am

ygmir wrote:yup, I'd say sell for face value, or step.......or, turn him in and let the tickets be voided by the ORG.
If he wants accolades for "doing the right thing (face value, regardless of where or to whom)", he can even post here, and we'll pat him on the back.
He'd be an inspiration, to others, to "do the right thing".


Simply saying "So and So" is going to scalp their tickets is going to get a ticket order cancelled. I hope BM requires some proof and evidence.
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Re: Hypothetical question...

Postby ygmir » Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:41 am

mdmf007 wrote:
ygmir wrote:yup, I'd say sell for face value, or step.......or, turn him in and let the tickets be voided by the ORG.
If he wants accolades for "doing the right thing (face value, regardless of where or to whom)", he can even post here, and we'll pat him on the back.
He'd be an inspiration, to others, to "do the right thing".


Simply saying "So and So" is going to scalp their tickets is going to get a ticket order cancelled. I hope BM requires some proof and evidence.


good point!
I'd imagine, there is proof needed, like an ad or correspondence. I can't imagine the org. would cancel anyone just on an email.

but, heck, I could see a "hall of fame" thread, for good folks, who sell their tickets at face value, or send them to STEP. A way to give thanks and positive reinforcement to "doing it right".
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Re: Hypothetical question...

Postby percussivepaul » Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:17 am

If he's really having serious financial problems, I would be inclined to be very gently plant the idea to sell at face value or through STEP, and then step back. It is a moral decision to forego the windfall profit from scalping tickets in order to uphold the community ideals, and this is a lot to ask of someone who is struggling, especially when those of us doing the asking have nothing to lose. Having their order cancelled would be outright cruelty under such circumstances, in my book.
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Re: Hypothetical question...

Postby Isotopia » Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:05 am

(3) the tickets go to a theme camp that needs crew members to bring fire art to the playa


Which brings up the other six-hundred pound gorilla in the room.

Not all members of a theme camp necessarily contribute 'more' than anyone else rolling through the gate by virtue of their membership status. SOme of the biggest, parasitic slugs I've encountered on the playa have been associated with a theme camp. I suspect a good number here would agree.

Also, - and I'm not accusing here - the idea that some people (theme camp crews) are somehow more deserving to get in than others implies (or suggests) that a worthiness-above-others that leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

BTW, I think #4 (the STEP program) goes a long way towards remedying this and other shortcomings made obvious in the original ticket sale.

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Last edited by Isotopia on Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:35 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Hypothetical question...

Postby Isotopia » Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:08 am

..
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Re: Hypothetical question...

Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:10 am

Agree on both counts--and I got a ticket in the "direct despersment" program, or whatever it's called. They were saying mv crews and volunteers as well. Has anyone heard of someone getting a ticket through that?

I think that a possibly exists that 2013 will have to deal with this somehow, and that it might get ugly. (Heck, it's already not pretty.) I'd hate to see tickets pulled from general sale like that again. Also hate it if it becomes a rubber stamp for theme camp tickets.
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Re: Hypothetical question...

Postby SquirrelHead » Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:10 am

I am all for option 4 with option option 3 being a close 2nd. Yes, I do need tickets and I am hoping for the STEP program to provide but I would vote this way even with a ticket.
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Re: Hypothetical question...

Postby pink » Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:00 pm

I'd say STEP.

And I do know of people getting MV & camp tix. Our camp was alloted a few (basically it seemed they asked how many do we need for our core set up crew, and how many do we have for said crew. We had half, and got allocated the rest), and I just loaned money to a friend that was offered MV tix so he could get them by the due date.

My ticket came from a friend, so I was part of our core crew that was ticketed.
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Re: Hypothetical question...

Postby Savannah » Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:43 pm

vachot wrote:So, I known this guy who didn't buy a ticket in time last year because he wasn't really motivated, and wouldn't have registered in time this year if I didn't remind him, but he did and sure enough, he got 2 tickets, while most of us planned, connived, strategized and performed a ritual ceremony for good fortune, and still lost out. Well, turns out that he has serious financial problems and doubts he's going this year; I suspect he wants to scalp both.

What I'm asking is, would we as the burning community, rather see him (1) sell the tickets for profit, probably to some desperate burner soul YEARNING to get dusty, or would we rather see (2) the tickets be used by him or someone else who is kinda ambivalent about the event but will go as long as they have a ticket?

Or, would we rather see (3) the tickets go to a theme camp that needs crew members to bring fire art to the playa, or would we rather see (4) them go to the STEP program?

I'm not judging, just asking.


The most generous & fun thing would be to sell the tickets to a friend for face value--with which there is absolutely nothing wrong, and could make a friend's year. Or, if he doesn't know anyone who wants to buy them, he can put them into STEP and feel good about the fact that having serious financial woes doesn't dictate his ethics for him. Even though he wouldn't get to pick the buyer in STEP, the buyer would be guaranteed grateful. We've been watching the STEP tickets come through a few at a time and it's been a great day every time someone new posts about getting one. :)

If he decides to scalp, he arguably ought not scuttle about looking for attention or validation. He's not going to get much support for it, except among others who scalp; the money would have to be enjoyment enough. (Although some folks do live for negative attention, so--there's that. He could come here and claim to have scalped, and we will all shake our fists and post more cat videos.)
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Re: Hypothetical question...

Postby Elorrum » Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:10 pm

STEP. If this person needs to come up with some money, he needs to try something else. otherwise, it's going to be the next parasitic trend of burner created business, for burners: scalping. so much easier than running a camp full of R.V's.
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Re: Hypothetical question...

Postby maryanimal » Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:44 pm

Savannah wrote:
vachot wrote:(1) sell the tickets for profit, probably to some desperate burner soul YEARNING to get dusty
this has all the earmarks of a douchebag.
(2) the tickets be used by him or someone else who is kinda ambivalent about the event but will go as long as they have a ticket?
(3) the tickets go to a theme camp that needs crew members to bring fire art to the playa
(4) them go to the STEP program?
This is good!



5.The most generous & fun thing would be to sell the tickets to a friend for face value--with which there is absolutely nothing wrong, and could make a friend's year.

Or, if he doesn't know anyone who wants to buy them, he can put them into STEP and feel good about the fact that having serious financial woes doesn't dictate his ethics for him. Even though he wouldn't get to pick the buyer in STEP, the buyer would be guaranteed grateful. We've been watching the STEP tickets come through a few at a time and it's been a great day every time someone new posts about getting one. :)

If he decides to scalp, he arguably ought not scuttle about looking for attention or validation. He's not going to get much support for it, except among others who scalp; the money would have to be enjoyment enough. (Although some folks do live for negative attention, so--there's that. He could come here and claim to have scalped, and we will all shake our fists and post more cat videos.)


You're such sweet awesomeness Savannah! :D
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Re: Hypothetical question...

Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:37 pm

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Re: Hypothetical question...

Postby BBadger » Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:30 pm

If there are some truly serious financial problems (i.e. money in a timely manner) he has basically one choice: STEP. Otherwise, his client is going to need to be very trusting about whether he's going to supply the ticket when it actually arrives in June (assuming BMOrg doesn't change things again). If he wants his money now, STEP will almost guarantee that his ticket money will be returned immediately, sans processing fees.

On another note, Isotopia once again says it as it is.
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Re: Hypothetical question...

Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:40 pm

Isotopia wrote:Not all members of a theme camp necessarily contribute 'more' than anyone else rolling through the gate by virtue of their membership status. SOme of the biggest, parasitic slugs I've encountered on the playa have been associated with a theme camp. I suspect a good number here would agree.

I forgot I was going to specifically agree with that. I think it's another one of those 20%/80% things.
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Re: Hypothetical question...

Postby theCryptofishist » Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:30 am

Simon's real sig line?

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Re: Hypothetical question...

Postby Savannah » Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:43 am

That made my morning, Fishy! :)
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Re: Hypothetical question...

Postby theCryptofishist » Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:47 am

You're welcome. I'm taking my duty to post cat videos seriously.
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Re: Hypothetical question...

Postby ygmir » Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:42 am

theCryptofishist wrote:You're welcome. I'm taking my duty to post cat videos seriously.


one thing we can depend on, is when it comes to cats, Fishy is on it!!

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Re: Hypothetical question...

Postby Savannah » Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:58 am

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Re: Hypothetical question...

Postby mshaman » Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:47 pm

@Iso, right on.

Regarding OP. Come up with $390 + fees * 2 in cash. Offer him the ~$800 cash for the tickets, since you didn't get a pair. Making it EASY for him to do the right thing is better than expecting him to take initiative, since he obviously doesn't have much based on the OP. The cash will seem real and more relevant to him than either the burn or hypothetical profits when it's waved in front of his face. Some people are more motivated by not wanting to lose than they are by wanting to win. He won't want to lose that cash opportunity when it's so within his grasp.
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Re: Hypothetical question...

Postby Savannah » Tue Mar 27, 2012 1:13 pm

So true in every way, mshaman.
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Re: Hypothetical question...

Postby dangerous » Tue Mar 27, 2012 2:08 pm

call me a cynic, but my first thought was that the OP has the tickets and is trying to lure in some desperate burner soul YEARNING to get dusty.
wonder how many PMs he got?

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Re: Hypothetical question...

Postby Savannah » Tue Mar 27, 2012 2:14 pm

sage_ wrote:call me a cynic, but my first thought was that the OP has the tickets and is trying to lure in some desperate burner soul YEARNING to get dusty.
wonder how many PMs he got?


Interesting idea. "I'm not a scalper, but I may know somebody. But it's not me, so don't yell at me." Heh!

Not that cynical of you though, just a worthwhile wonderment--we do see people whose first post is, tellingly, a mock-outraged screed of "Can you believe this scalper on [site]? OMG. (Please check out my sale)." :roll:
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Re: Hypothetical question...

Postby ygmir » Tue Mar 27, 2012 2:19 pm

Savannah wrote:


wow Savannah!! you are good with animals!! dang.

*runs to get fur jacket boots and coyote call*
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Re: Hypothetical question...

Postby Savannah » Tue Mar 27, 2012 2:21 pm

My milkshake brings all the foxes to the yard . . .

I wish that was the view from my porch, but it isn't. :) That youtube was just this morning's find.

However, I would like to see you in a spiffy jacket, fur or otherwise.
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