Plug & Play/Turnkey Camping

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.

Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby Pop_Tart » Sun Mar 25, 2012 12:05 pm

How about we force them to sew a star of David onto all of their outfits and force them to camp in their own private fenced off area while we are at it...
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby BBadger » Sun Mar 25, 2012 12:12 pm

Let's pretend BMOrg has policies in place to eradicate the scourge of PnP camps.

What is plug and play?

Before we start casting stones, I want to know is how are you going to determine whether a camp is Plug and Play or not? What is the standard here?

Playaskool is an outrageous example. They made their own goofy video, they got all this attention, the supposed camp coordinator even visited this thread to defend his practices. They practically celebrate their PnPism. It would be easy to identify some camp like Playaskool as PnP. There are others too of course. We see their ads pop up from time to time, but really they're far and few between.

For everything else, the lines are a bit more blurred. What is the fine line between a regular camp and the apostasy practiced by PnP camps?

I look at my own camp situation. When my friends and I joined the camp we knew straight up that there were camp dues. These covered things such as setting up the kitchen, the evap pond, power, generation, etc. The following year, the dues doubled, to afford a camp shipping container.

All these camp-due-covered things could definitely constitute plug and play, and quite frankly, there are quite a few people in the camp that could be considered PnPers. Sure, they aren't just lounging about being fed grapes and being fanned with palm fronds by man-servants (or at least not paid ones), and sure, they cook their own meals (aside from whatever subgroup-cooked camp dinner there is), but other than that, they aren't doing much. I don't consider our camp Plug and Play, but compared to other camps, the amenities that are managed by a select few would be skirting the line.

To what extend does collective pooling of resources, or having some people set things up for others, constitute Plug and Play?

The sentiment is great, but it's one thing to be against cancer, it's another to isolate and figure out how to remove it. Often there is collateral damage. Will the solution be more like surgery? Or chemotherapy which affects the entire host? Sometimes the cure is worse than the poison. Sometimes it even kills the host.

Pop_Tart wrote:How about we force them to sew a star of David onto all of their outfits and force them to camp in their own private fenced off area while we are at it...


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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby Elorrum » Sun Mar 25, 2012 12:22 pm

I guess we'll have to see if it leads to all audience, and no show in the long run. Who wants to earn a living on Burning Man? At least cover all the expenses, a bit extra if you want a sound system for the hanger you need to build the big art. Step up, seems like the door's open.
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby TomServo » Sun Mar 25, 2012 2:32 pm

Was thinking on alternatives for International Burners...for whom hauling gear overseas would be a logistical problem.. This is NOT 100% Radical Self Reliance, but given the circumstances, seems a fair option, and allows these folks to experience the survival camping, that so many of us live for. Plus, it also gave me another excuse to create a logo on windows.
POUND & PLAY

A camp dedicated to providing gear and tools for International Burners. NO MONEY is ever exchanged...just a name and a hug. Gear can be picked up on playa Tools loaned out for setting camp. Assistance provided for disabled Burners. All gear loans would be pre-arranged. A hug and a handshake, promising the gear and tools will be returned.
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby motskyroonmatick » Sun Mar 25, 2012 2:50 pm

I was going to write up a big scheme for charging camps extra fees for the use of outside resources during the burn week to encourage RSR and penalize P+P but I'll let the ORG deal with that.
Instead I'm going to make it a priority that when we find a spot for Stag Camp it will be well away from camps that have high non decorated exterior fences, potable water and grey/black water tanks, unoccupied RV's and Segway charging stations. We will be doing serious recon. We will be making a conscious effort to camp away from people who's first instinct is to not recognize we exist. This is based on past experience of camping across from a P+P camp.
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby 5280MeV » Sun Mar 25, 2012 3:32 pm

BBadger wrote:Playaskool is an outrageous example. They made their own goofy video, they got all this attention, the supposed camp coordinator even visited this thread to defend his practices. They practically celebrate their PnPism. It would be easy to identify some camp like Playaskool as PnP. There are others too of course. We see their ads pop up from time to time, but really they're far and few between.


I thought that Playaskool was the most reasonable example. In many ways they are just a very highly structured theme camp, with the goal of helping people both in and out of the camp learn to do burning man, through seminars and sharing some of the work. The fact that they had a collection for one of their camp mates, got vendors to do MOOPing was kinda fishy at best. The VIP/concierge camps are another matter entirely.

The real problem here is that they - according to Janus' own admission - deliberately cater to people who don't want to do any prep work, who say - "You know, can I just chuck this survival guide, rent an RV, and have you guys help me figure it out when I get there?"

The answer should be, "Hell no! Read the guide, try your best to prepare for a week in the desert, but don't worry - we are going to help you out, pick you up when you fall, and give you more than you can imagine. Just take the leap of faith and you will be ok." There is nothing wrong with adding to that, "Oh, BTW we have an evap pond / coleman stove / shade structure - so don't worry about that part."

The point is that a person try to make some level of effort to figure things out for oneself - to rely in some sense on their own wits. This could involve renting an RV or walk in camping in a Bivy sack, it could involve a generator to keep the wine rack at a cool 72 degrees or a few 12 packs of hot miller lite. People can specialize and divide up tasks, or try to do it all themselves. Camps can give the easier jobs to the new members.

The definition of PnP from computer hardware is zero effort, zero understanding - I don't know, I don't care, I want to show up and get started NOW.

I think that you delineated the difference between a PnP camp and a theme camp perfectly when you said that they celebrated their PnP.

PnP is an ideal, I remember when it was called "Plug and pray" back in the Win95 days. Now with USB it is often flawless. You cannot regulate what ideals people have. You can discuss them, and maybe that was the point of this video and discussion - to force everyone to explain why they don't think this is a good paradigm for Burning Man.

Hopefully this discussion will encourage new participants to take the leap of faith, try to prepare and do at least a few things themselves, and get a million times more out of the event. Other people will help you out!

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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby Bob » Sun Mar 25, 2012 3:41 pm

TomServo wrote: the whole thought of Plug&Play is nauseating. If we have to accept them, don't register them. But, if we have to register them, place them so far away from anything, that they discourage people from buying into their scheme.


Again, some of us normals like to camp on the outer streets. One person's ghetto is another's playground.

BRC city designers tried to solve a perceived problem via mapping in 1996 by putting rave camps a few miles to the north; traffic problems ensued, shall we say. Again, in 1998, they mapped rave camps at the north end of the arc and quiet-seekers at the south end. Funny thing happened -- the camp they mapped at the south corner turned out to have deejays and a sound system they cranked up at night. Turns out ravers buy tickets in bulk, so they mapped rave camps at both the 2:00 and 10:00 ends starting in 1999. That's when a lot of my friends abandoned Burning Man and started going out there in July.
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby TomServo » Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:22 pm

Bob wrote:
TomServo wrote: the whole thought of Plug&Play is nauseating. If we have to accept them, don't register them. But, if we have to register them, place them so far away from anything, that they discourage people from buying into their scheme.


Again, some of us normals like to camp on the outer streets. One person's ghetto is another's playground.

BRC city designers tried to solve a perceived problem via mapping in 1996 by putting rave camps a few miles to the north; traffic problems ensued, shall we say. Again, in 1998, they mapped rave camps at the north end of the arc and quiet-seekers at the south end. Funny thing happened -- the camp they mapped at the south corner turned out to have deejays and a sound system they cranked up at night. Turns out ravers buy tickets in bulk, so they mapped rave camps at both the 2:00 and 10:00 ends starting in 1999. That's when a lot of my friends abandoned Burning Man and started going out there in July.


I was thinking more towards or beyond the perimeter fence.
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby theCryptofishist » Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:25 pm

Do you mean that ravers buy a lot of tickets or that some ravers buy huge multiples of tickets?
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby Bob » Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:54 pm

Who knows? How do cicadas do it?
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby Elorrum » Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:57 pm

Bob wrote:Who knows? How do cicadas do it?

every 17 years? er sorry, you asked "how." That I do not know.
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby theCryptofishist » Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:01 pm

Elorrum wrote:
Bob wrote:Who knows? How do cicadas do it?

every 17 years? er sorry, you asked "how." That I do not know.

Or something more like this:
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby gyre » Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:26 pm

The ancient greeks dined on them.

They often survive by predator satiation, by overwhelming in numbers.
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby TomServo » Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:36 pm

They used to drive me nuts, during the summers in Texas. Brought a dead one out to California...smelled like a dead animal when I got it there.
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby gyre » Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:00 pm

Raver or cicada?
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby TomServo » Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:37 pm

thought it was a raver...turned out to be a cicada
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby 5280MeV » Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:45 pm

Well, well, well...

Goodwin's law has been invoked, and we are now talking about hauling raver corpses to Cali. It is good to see that this discussion is finally getting somewhere.

Down south, our 13 year cicadas seem to congregate in Bradford Pear trees, which smell like filthy sex at this time in the spring. I wonder why that is? I bet Sam Elliot knows...

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I guess we will just have to wait until Labor Day to figure it all out.
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby gyre » Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:59 pm

Burning man is like an allegory.
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby catinthefunnyhat » Sun Mar 25, 2012 9:01 pm

I love cicadas. The sound, without context, would be annoying, but it's the sound of summer... the sound of HOT weather... so it's dreamy for me.
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby moonrise » Sun Mar 25, 2012 9:07 pm

Pitchforks and Torches! Arrrrg!
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby theCryptofishist » Sun Mar 25, 2012 9:14 pm

Heck, cicadas are a lot more relaxing than the ostensible topic of this thread...
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby BBadger » Sun Mar 25, 2012 9:27 pm

"I have here in my hand a list of two hundred and five camps that were known to the Burning Man Organization as being members of the Plug-and-Play Party and who nevertheless are still working and shaping the policy of Black Rock City."

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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby TomServo » Sun Mar 25, 2012 9:35 pm

not the greatest analogy
anything worth doing..is worth overdoing

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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby Bob » Sun Mar 25, 2012 10:11 pm

A Tale of Two Black Rock Cities?
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby TruDat » Sun Mar 25, 2012 10:34 pm

I like how people are posting $150-$200 a head as numbers for camp dues..... You guys are way way off for Playaskool

It was $2000 per RV and $600 for a tent.....

Seriously 2k for grid, food and fluffing.....

Deny it.... I dare you
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby CornMan » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:06 pm

PapaBear2120 wrote:I was shown this video last summer by someone who was part of the build crew and catering for this camp. I don't know anyone but her and I'm going to refrain from making my own comments about it for the time being. I do think it's a fitting video for this discussion.



Say what you will about all this, I do like that they set up hexayurts. That is much more adventurous than merely parking a bunch of RVs together. That's probably a big step for some of these people. It looks like summer camp for rich people.
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby moonrise » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:23 pm

TruDat you got money to burn? I paid 60bux for Esplande, grid, we made our own food and did our own fluffing. Yes I'm denying it. I can do 3 weeks Hawaii for under 2k, lol


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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby TomServo » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:28 pm

Let them eat dust
the lazy fucks!
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby maryanimal » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:39 pm

TomServo wrote:Was thinking on alternatives for International Burners...for whom hauling gear overseas would be a logistical problem.. This is NOT 100% Radical Self Reliance, but given the circumstances, seems a fair option, and allows these folks to experience the survival camping, that so many of us live for. Plus, it also gave me another excuse to create a logo on windows.
POUND & PLAY

A camp dedicated to providing gear and tools for International Burners. NO MONEY is ever exchanged...just a name and a hug. Gear can be picked up on playa Tools loaned out for setting camp. Assistance provided for disabled Burners. All gear loans would be pre-arranged. A hug and a handshake, promising the gear and tools will be returned.
Image

..just a thought..



Sounds like a great idea here. Are you giving this some serious thought? It sure would help some of the overseas burners!
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby TomServo » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:40 pm

maryanimal wrote:
TomServo wrote:Was thinking on alternatives for International Burners...for whom hauling gear overseas would be a logistical problem.. This is NOT 100% Radical Self Reliance, but given the circumstances, seems a fair option, and allows these folks to experience the survival camping, that so many of us live for. Plus, it also gave me another excuse to create a logo on windows.
POUND & PLAY

A camp dedicated to providing gear and tools for International Burners. NO MONEY is ever exchanged...just a name and a hug. Gear can be picked up on playa Tools loaned out for setting camp. Assistance provided for disabled Burners. All gear loans would be pre-arranged. A hug and a handshake, promising the gear and tools will be returned.
Image

..just a thought..



Sounds like a great idea here. Are you giving this some serious thought? It sure would help some of the overseas burners!


If I get my ticket...?..Fuck yeah!
anything worth doing..is worth overdoing

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