New EA (for Permit) Released

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Re: New EA (for Permit) Released

Postby Sail Man » Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:02 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:Brilliant! It could then sell frappes to all the cars creeping down 447!


Don't forget the slow wi-fi :wink:
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Re: New EA (for Permit) Released

Postby Sail Man » Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:06 pm

ygmir wrote:I've sort of seen that, on patrol. folks all stay together in line, playing music, pouring drinks, making food and such.......looks pretty fun.


Kinda like a big congo line LOL ?
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Re: New EA (for Permit) Released

Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:14 pm

IThe Proposed Action would require the applicant to remove solid waste from the site. The 2010 event generated 750 cubic yards of solid waste that was removed by the applicant. This was a 90 cubic yard increase in solid waste compared with the 2009 event. A larger number of participants would be expected to generate more solid waste, although the increase is not linear as the annual solid waste estimates varies and depends on unplanned events, such as rain, and planned events, such as recycling the Center Camp Café carpets in 2010.


Greeters get to give us a leaking oil spiel:
Hydrocarbon Wastes
The Proposed Action would result in liquid wastes being deposited on the playa as estimated in Table 4.11-2 in Section 4.11 (Water Quality). Oil deposition in 2002 (16 percent) resulted in an estimated 14.5 gallons of hydrocarbon waste. Using the same assumptions described in the 2003 report except for updated visitors-per-vehicle data, vehicles could deposit an estimated 72.5 gallons of hydrocarbon for a population of 58,000 persons and 87.5 gallons of hydrocarbon for a population of 70,000 on the playa. The 2012-2016 Operating Plan noted that the applicant would train staff involved with greeting participants to identify vehicles likely to have an increased risk of oil or fluid drips, inspect suspect vehicles and take appropriate actions to minimize contamination from leaking vehicles. Black Rock LLC advised the use of materials, such as cardboard, hazmat pads, or drip pans to minimize impacts. As the event population increases to up to 70,000 participants, the oil deposition would increase even if the percent of cars dripping oil remains the same as estimated in 2003. Reports by Johnson (2000) and Tagget (2000) indicate that hydrocarbon would be readily absorbed in the top layer of sediment of the playa and then volatilized, dispersed as a film in the intermittent lake surface or photo-degraded over time by sunlight (BLM 2006). Because of the increase in population, the Proposed Action would have the potential to increase the hydrocarbon waste and result in change of composition of the lake surface. To reduce potential impacts due to hydrocarbon waste, the following mitigation is recommended.
Recommended Mitigation to Reduce Effects (Oil Drip Surveys): In order to quantify and assess how much oil might be deposited on the playa during the event, Black Rock City, LLC should fund and conduct an oil drip survey during the first year of the permit and at least one additional year over the duration of the permit (2012-2016). The oil drip survey should include a scientifically valid methodology for sampling collection, verifiable results, discussion regarding the results, as well as actions to reduce the amount of hydrocarbon waste (i.e., oil) if it is shown to be increasing at the playa. The study design (methodology) should be coordinated with the BLM Hazardous Materials Specialist and approved by the BLM Authorized Officer prior to implementation. Personnel conducting the study should be approved by the BLM Authorized Officer prior to study implementation. The applicant should be responsible for costs associated with the monitoring program and any potential operational changes that may be necessary (as determined by BLM) as indicated by the research results.
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Re: New EA (for Permit) Released

Postby ygmir » Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:18 pm

Sail Man wrote:
ygmir wrote:I've sort of seen that, on patrol. folks all stay together in line, playing music, pouring drinks, making food and such.......looks pretty fun.


Kinda like a big congo line LOL ?


yeah, some groups seemed to be having a blast!!
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Re: New EA (for Permit) Released

Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:21 pm

In 2011, a container of human waste was deposited in Gerlach and was subsequently reported to the Nevada Public Health Department.


Sometimes, I know why some locals hate us.
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Re: New EA (for Permit) Released

Postby ygmir » Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:22 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:
In 2011, a container of human waste was deposited in Gerlach and was subsequently reported to the Nevada Public Health Department.


Sometimes, I know why some locals hate us.


boy howdy!!............and, you know, it's not isolated.........going out, is embarrassing, to see how much crap is left along the road, some by accident, some not.
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Re: New EA (for Permit) Released

Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:27 pm

Compliance with the terms and conditions of the water transfer contract required for the pro-posed use of Fly Ranch water would ensure that the water supply would not be affected by the proposed use. Water quality at the Fly Ranch water source was tested by the BLM in October of 2011. Water quality data measured at the Fly Ranch source is presented in Tables 3.11-1 through 3.11-3 in Section 3.11 of this EA, including EPA-designated Primary and Secondary Maximum Contaminant Levels (MCLs), where MCLs have been designated for constituents tested at Fly Ranch. As described in Section 3.11, the Fly Ranch water source is not a public water system and would not provide drinking water for the Burning Man event; the purpose of comparing Fly Ranch water quality results to MCLs for drinking water is to provide a basis of comparison in characterizing potential impacts of applying this water on the ground surface in BRC. Below is a summary of constituents which were detected in the Fly Ranch water source as exceeding Primary or Secondary MCLs for drinking water.
 Total coliform and E. coli concentrations of 1,732.9 mg / 100 mL and 11.0 mg / 100 mL, respectively, are higher than the Maximum Contaminant Level Goal (MCLG) of 0.0 mg/L for drinking water. These constituents occur naturally in the environment, and in human and animal feces. The concentrations of coliform and E. coli in water may vary depending on activities surrounding the water source, and depending on the time of year, as photodegradation can reduce the presence of these constituents.
 Fluoride concentration of 8.4 mg/L is more than twice the Primary MCL of 4.0 mg/L for drinking water. Fluoride is used as a water additive to protect human health at low con-centrations, and also occurs naturally through erosion of natural deposits and discharge from fertilizer and aluminum factories. Due to the location of the Fly Ranch water source, and consideration of surrounding land uses, it is reasonably assumed that the detected fluoride levels have resulted from erosion of natural deposits.
 Arsenic concentration of less than 0.025 mg/L is slightly greater than the Primary MCL of 0.010 mg/L for drinking water. The water quality testing results do not specify how much less than 0.025 mg/L arsenic concentrations at the Fly Ranch water source are; it is possible that Fly Ranch water is below the Primary MCL for arsenic in drinking water. Arsenic occurs from erosion of natural deposits, runoff from orchards, and runoff from glass and electronics production wastes. As with the fluoride concentration described above, due to the location of the Fly Ranch water source, and consideration of surround-ing land uses, it is reasonably assumed that the detected arsenic levels have resulted from erosion of natural deposits.
 Chloride concentration of 260 mg/L is slightly greater than the Secondary MCL of 250 mg/L for drinking water. Natural water systems typically contain chloride at concentra-tions which vary depending on the mineral content of the earth in the area where the water occurs. The Secondary MCL for chloride is associated with a salty taste that chloride can cause in drinking water.
 Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) concentration of 1,100 mg/L is more than twice the Sec-ondary MCL of 500 mg/L for drinking water. TDS includes any dissolved organic or inorganic constituents and minerals in water, including salt. The Secondary MCL for TDS is associated with a salty taste that TDS can cause in drinking water.


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Re: New EA (for Permit) Released

Postby lemur » Mon Mar 19, 2012 10:00 pm

HEY HIPPIES, WANT AN ECOLI BATH!? THE WATER TRUCK IS COMIN!


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Re: New EA (for Permit) Released

Postby theCryptofishist » Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:11 am

Fuck...
In addition, the Burning Man event has been visible from portions of the Calico Mountains Wilderness in recent years (see Figure 3-8). The Burning Man event would also be audible from portions of the wilderness. Noise and visual impacts (including dark sky impacts) as well as increased visitation may affect the ability of wilderness visitors to enjoy predominantly natural, solitary, and quiet recreation.
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Re: New EA (for Permit) Released

Postby theCryptofishist » Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:17 am

The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (USFWS) conducted studies on the economic effects of expenditures by visitors of Stillwater and Modoc National Wildlife Refuges on local regions. These studies show the spending per visitor to these recreational activities in an outdoor setting similar to BLM-managed lands and may be appropriate proxies for the levels of expenditures by Burning Man participants. Using the average expenditure of $21.61 per visit per day for the two refuges after adjusting for inflation, and applying this to the average daily attendance over eight days at Burning Man (assuming the same ratio to official peak attendance), Table 4.14-1 shows the projected economic impacts in the assessment area derived from USFWS studies. The average attendance days for the current permit level of 50,000 is 28,200. The estimated additional direct economic impacts reach $1.74 million with 70,000 participants and the total direct, indirect and induced impacts are $2.93 million. The baseline impacts are about $7.3 million using the USFWS methodology.


I wish California politicians would remember this applies to state parks as well...
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Re: New EA (for Permit) Released

Postby theCryptofishist » Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:29 am

Using lodging data for the Reno-Sparks area from the Reno-Sparks Convention and Visitors Authority, a statistical relationship was found between lodging in the Reno-Sparks area to Burning Man attendance. Given the limited timeframe of the data, potential distortions from the effects of the recent recession, and difficulty in controlling for influences of other events (most notably the Best in the West Nugget Rib Cookoff over the Labor Day weekend holiday in Sparks), no analysis is included that quantitatively estimates potential lodging impacts. However, an increase in Burning Man attendance would be expected to increase overnight lodging demand in the assessment area, primarily in the Reno-Sparks area.


Emergency Response and Evacuation
Due to the size of the Proposed Action, accidents are likely to occur during the event. Additionally, as the event continues, there is a likelihood that at some time during the life of the event a natural or man-made emergency would require evacuation of the event. Weather related emergencies are the most likely event. While the average rainfall in August and September, 0.25 inches, is unlikely to result in standing water, it would impede event participants from leaving the playa. Higher precipitation amounts could occur on a limited basis and could result in standing rainfall leaving the event goers stranded for longer periods of time. As noted in Section 3.2.1, Climate and Meteorology, on any typical 10-day period in August or September, there is an average of 0.57 days of precipitation greater than 0.01 inch (WRCC 2011).
The applicant prepares contingency plans for any emergency event. Health and Safety guides are published for the event and the applicant provides 24-hour emergency medical services. Evacuation routes are planned and emergency information and preparedness is broadcast on the Burning Man Information Radio 24 hours daily. The BLM and the applicant would actively monitor for potential emergencies, and as part of the permitting process, the applicant must coordinate with emergency services providers and law enforcement agencies. The applicant must develop contingency plans for operations of critical health and safety services under adverse conditions including weather, natural or human caused disaster, or social unrest.
The applicant has a separate weather contingency plan that includes assessing weather before and during the event and securing the camp during an extreme weather event. The applicant designates a Weather Marshall who is responsible for advising when the weather contingency plan takes effect and has two levels of alerts, one for less than 12 hours of sheltering in place and one for more than 12 hours. The contingency plans include consideration of toilet facilities, food, water, and power. Mass communication would be used. The contingency plans apply to participants within the event area and en route to and from the event. The design features of the Proposed Action (see 2012-2016 Operating Plan and 2011 Permit Stipulation #19) require emergency preparedness and response plans to ensure that emergency response and evacuation is appropriate and would be revised as appropriate yearly as the population increases. Sections V.C.1, Emergency Procedures, and V.C.3, Contingency Plans in the Operating Plan (Appendix 2)include a full description of procedures for emergencies, as well as Permit Stipulations included in Appendix 1 of this EA.
Last edited by theCryptofishist on Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:49 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: New EA (for Permit) Released

Postby theCryptofishist » Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:39 am

March 2012 4-39 Environmental Consequences
Respiratory Concerns
The playa dust includes both gypsum, an alkaline dust, and silica, a known carcinogen. The event activities would disturb the playa surface and mobilize the dust causing the dust particles to become airborne and potentially putting event participants and others at risk. Event participants are made aware of the potential dust and dust storms at the event and the Burning Man website suggests methods to reduce exposure to dust. Offsite exposure to dust would occur at an emission rate comparable to that caused by existing uncontrollable high wind events. The increased air quality impacts of the Proposed Action would be small relative to the effects of existing wind-blown dust emissions in the air basin (Black Rock Desert Hydrographic Region of Nevada). As noted in Section 4.2.1 (Air Quality), effects of dust would be minimized by dust abatement practices implemented by the applicant (see the 2012-2016 Operating Plan).


Vehicle Collisions with Rangeland Animals
During increased event traffic for the Proposed Action, there would be increased risk of serious vehicle collisions involving rangeland animals, including cattle and wild horses and burros, in the vicinity of the travel routes.
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Re: New EA (for Permit) Released

Postby theCryptofishist » Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:45 am

According to the 2011 census of Burning Man participants, nine percent considered themselves to be a person of color and 11 percent sometimes considered themselves to be a person of color (BRC 2011b). According to the census of Burning Man participants from 2007, the average participant income is approximately $72,000. Approximately 15 percent of Burning Man participants have incomes below the poverty level (BRC 2007). If Burning Man 2012-2016 continues to attract participants of the same general demographics, then approximately 20 percent of the population would be considered minority and 15 percent would be consider low-income, including the increase in population from 2011. This would be generally consistent with the minority and low-income population percentage of jurisdictions within the assessment area. As the population increases proposed under the Proposed Action would occur during the eight-day event, participants’ demographic characteristics would have no substantial effects on the metrics for environmental justice demographics within the assessment area (see Section 4.5).


I confess I don't understand that. I mean, there's a whole lot of the time when I odn't consider myself "white" but that's just because I'm not considering that at all. I think it's a good thing, a very good thing, to move away from racial categories, which are, after all, not a measure of anything real. I guess I am emmired in the catagorical mind set and, alas, cannot shake it, although intellectually I think it's rubbish.

As for the below the poverty level participants, we can see that one argued over here at any moment...
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Re: New EA (for Permit) Released

Postby Lassen Forge » Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:48 am

theCryptofishist wrote:
Vehicle Collisions with Rangeland Animals
During increased event traffic for the Proposed Action, there would be increased risk of serious vehicle collisions involving rangeland animals, including cattle and wild horses and burros, in the vicinity of the travel routes.


What? No mention of Suicidal Playa Jackrabbits? I sense a cover-up...
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Re: New EA (for Permit) Released

Postby ygmir » Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:15 pm

Bay Bridge Sue wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:
Vehicle Collisions with Rangeland Animals
During increased event traffic for the Proposed Action, there would be increased risk of serious vehicle collisions involving rangeland animals, including cattle and wild horses and burros, in the vicinity of the travel routes.


What? No mention of Suicidal Playa Jackrabbits? I sense a cover-up...


or snipes..........
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Re: New EA (for Permit) Released

Postby VultureChow » Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:25 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:
Potential direct GHG emissions from fuel use during the event itself and by transportation to and from the event each year would be approximately 12,700 tons of CO2e or less than half of the 25,000 MTCO2e (27,558 tons) threshold to trigger a quantitative analysis



This is what struck me. It's a good reminder that despite concerns over how ungreen BM might be, BLM deals with numerous commercial uses on public land that are far more likely to pollute than Burning Man. Mining, Forestry, even livestock are major producers of pollution. Even concerns over oil drips and human waste pale in comparison to a gypsum mine, or major logging operation, or tens of thousand of cattle defecating.
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Re: New EA (for Permit) Released

Postby theCryptofishist » Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:43 pm

For those who support Burning Man as an opportunity to create a temporary community outside of conventional society, an increase in participation would largely be viewed as giving others the opportunity to participate in this experience (Aspen 2011). Non-participants opposed to Burning Man and its associated activities for moral and ethical reasons would likely become more resolved in their opposition to the event. Participants and former participants critical of Burning Man would be likely to see growth of the event as increasingly reflecting mainstream society and dilution of its countercultural aspects. Other participants or former participants could view this in a positive light, seeing the growth as the popularization of Burning Man’s principles among the public: instead of Burning Man increasingly reflecting conventional society, conventional society’s increasing reflection of Burning Man’s principles. Because attitudes toward the event are divided, the Proposed Action would not result in a substantial effect.


4.18.3 Alternative 3: No Action Alternative
If a large, informal gathering or smaller unpermitted events occurred, with fewer attendees, the event’s current effects on population, demographics, or housing would be lessened. A decrease in attendance would reduce business for hotels, motels, RV parks, and campgrounds in the assessment area. Such a gathering would substantially increase effects on law enforcement agencies, fire departments, and emergency medical services, as an unpermitted event could lack coordination with these agencies. Effects on waste and utilities would also increase without an organized infrastructure to accommodate the event. BLM regulations would remain in effect reducing some of the impacts. Additionally, a SRP would be required, which could include stipulations, if the event would have the potential to result in impacts on public lands. Critics of Burning Man could become even more staunchly opposed to an unpermitted event because of its lack of applicant operating procedures and BLM stipulations (if no SPR were required).
If Burning Man were held at a different location, off of BLM Winnemucca District managed lands, the effects of the event in the assessment area would be transferred to a new location. Public services in the assessment area have developed methods to accommodate Burning Man’s growth over time. Hosting Burning Man at a new location would result in sudden demands on the public services and utilities providers in the new location. The service providers may or may not have the capacity to accommodate such an event. Local opponents of Burning Man would be relieved to have the event moved from its current location, although new critics of the event would likely be created around the new location. Burning Man supporters might be angered or disappointed by the move, but would still be able to attend the event or know that the event continues even if they are unable to participate.
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Re: New EA (for Permit) Released

Postby theCryptofishist » Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:45 pm

VultureChow wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:
Potential direct GHG emissions from fuel use during the event itself and by transportation to and from the event each year would be approximately 12,700 tons of CO2e or less than half of the 25,000 MTCO2e (27,558 tons) threshold to trigger a quantitative analysis



This is what struck me. It's a good reminder that despite concerns over how ungreen BM might be, BLM deals with numerous commercial uses on public land that are far more likely to pollute than Burning Man. Mining, Forestry, even livestock are major producers of pollution. Even concerns over oil drips and human waste pale in comparison to a gypsum mine, or major logging operation, or tens of thousand of cattle defecating.

And what kind of vacation are we taking without the burn? I'm sure that many of those people who are going to Thailand instead are going to be producing a much larger impact with the airplane.

Forestry?
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Re: New EA (for Permit) Released

Postby theCryptofishist » Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:47 pm

And...I have finished the direct impacts section. So it's indirect; mitigation and monitoring; list of preparers; consulting and coordination; public involvement; references; and the appendices.

And I'm zonked... Even though there's lots of repetition, it's not an easy read. It might be easier if I were willing to print it out, but I'm cheap.
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Re: New EA (for Permit) Released

Postby Lassen Forge » Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:34 pm

When you read this section...

Emergency Response and Evacuation
Due to the size of the Proposed Action, accidents are likely to occur during the event. Additionally, as the event continues, there is a likelihood that at some time during the life of the event a natural or man-made emergency would require evacuation of the event. Weather related emergencies are the most likely event. While the average rainfall in August and September, 0.25 inches, is unlikely to result in standing water, it would impede event participants from leaving the playa. Higher precipitation amounts could occur on a limited basis and could result in standing rainfall leaving the event goers stranded for longer periods of time. As noted in Section 3.2.1, Climate and Meteorology, on any typical 10-day period in August or September, there is an average of 0.57 days of precipitation greater than 0.01 inch (WRCC 2011).
The applicant prepares contingency plans for any emergency event. Health and Safety guides are published for the event and the applicant provides 24-hour emergency medical services. Evacuation routes are planned and emergency information and preparedness is broadcast on the Burning Man Information Radio 24 hours daily. The BLM and the applicant would actively monitor for potential emergencies, and as part of the permitting process, the applicant must coordinate with emergency services providers and law enforcement agencies. The applicant must develop contingency plans for operations of critical health and safety services under adverse conditions including weather, natural or human caused disaster, or social unrest.
The applicant has a separate weather contingency plan that includes assessing weather before and during the event and securing the camp during an extreme weather event. The applicant designates a Weather Marshall who is responsible for advising when the weather contingency plan takes effect and has two levels of alerts, one for less than 12 hours of sheltering in place and one for more than 12 hours. The contingency plans include consideration of toilet facilities, food, water, and power. Mass communication would be used. The contingency plans apply to participants within the event area and en route to and from the event. The design features of the Proposed Action (see 2012-2016 Operating Plan and 2011 Permit Stipulation #19) require emergency preparedness and response plans to ensure that emergency response and evacuation is appropriate and would be revised as appropriate yearly as the population increases. Sections V.C.1, Emergency Procedures, and V.C.3, Contingency Plans in the Operating Plan (Appendix 2)include a full description of procedures for emergencies, as well as Permit Stipulations included in Appendix 1 of this EA.


There are 2 issues...

One, your survival will depend on what YOU and YOUR CAMP do. There is a very real possibility that, should say a downpour start when the man's arms raise for the burn, and not shit off for the next 4-5 days, you will be stuck on playa for over a week past closing. We actually have an emergency plan, as well as a contingency.

Two, while the BMOrg has a weather plan, it only covers if you are stuck on playa for just over 12 hours, wth advice such as "stay where you are", "conserve water and share resources", "do not over-use portapotty facilities", etc... but when you talk of a 70K population stranded on playa, you push a system beyond its brink. Stick people there for a week with a "do not move" order and you will have (a) a riot, and (b) a PR disaster the likes of which no emergency manager wants.

The BMOrg do an admirable job for the event... but I wonder how often, and to what extent, have they ever truly exercised their various plans? Even assuming one could get to Hwy 34, in a best case you could not evac the playa in 24 hours. I'm not knocking them - just, as someone who does this for a 22,000 employee state department, I wonder how ready the borg is for this kind of disaster... eg How do you get water, ice, food, etc to a population that is cut off on an island, how do you approach regionalizing your city's neighborhoods to get emergency help / ranger & security / police / basic infrastructure to a population that cannot move? Worse, how do you deal with the inevitable moop issues involved in such a disaster scenario?

We, as part of my off-playa job, are required to train and/or exercise our people at least annually... and we only have 22K people over an entire state. The BMOrg - do they have means to get at least fresh water to the population, start medevac procedures, sart bringing in logistical supplies to get people OFF playa, and a way to interface communications - when they have limited comm resources and an inborne fear of relinquishing those resources to trusted individuals in a crisis? Have they ever done more than a tabletop roundtable of this weather (or their other disaster) plan?

As a camp mayor, I am damn skippy sure we can cover our campers for a duration emergency scenario. We also have a pre-open session to at LEAST tabletop and semi-functional most likely emergencies, from Injuries to weather to civil unrest to an off-playa societial collapse. (OK, maybe not so much the last one, tho some of us are ready for that, too!) And I know at least some of our campmates and former village mates have, as well.

What scares me are 2 things - One, people (even prepared burners) will default to a "fema refugee" level of survival, and (2) the BMOrg ain't ready to handle that type of scenario.

- - - - -

About 20 years ago - when I was a dispatcher for a living (it has been that long!) - I never gave much thought to it. Even as a supervisor - naah, not too much. But... being the Emergency Ops Coordinator for an entire department of over 20K people for the past few years changes your perspective. And makes you look aith a jaded eye how unready others are. And, in some cases, how unwilling they are to listen to others who may have valuable insight how to prepare their event for a disaster, the likes of which may well happen.

In a weird way, what Joseph once told me was correct - You gain a lot through situational awareness you don't get otherwise. Our former director is also right, however - you chooose to limit your options due to pride, prejiduce, or unwillingness to listen, you will operte at less than 30%, and cut your own throat, when your untapped and ignored resources tell you to pound sand. :wink:

Anyway, if you get a chance, it's worth staying fluent on the docs - and making your onw emergency plans to save your camp, your village, and your neighbors.
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Re: New EA (for Permit) Released

Postby jkisha » Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:05 pm

Thank you fishy for taking the time to read and summarize what I am sure must be a document chock full of helasciously boring legalese.
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Re: New EA (for Permit) Released

Postby lemur » Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:11 pm

not much legalese really.. its actually, if edited to remove repitiveness and extraneous demographics/otherinfo... quite informative about burning man and the black rock desert... would make a neat little book.

i found it quite easy reading actually..

it aint as bad as you think.
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Re: New EA (for Permit) Released

Postby LegendZero » Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:54 pm

What is of interest to me is that there is a public comment period. I am working on a essay in support of burning man being allowed a full permit of up to 70,000 as someone who has not gone. I figure the more public support it get the better.
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Re: New EA (for Permit) Released

Postby VultureChow » Wed Mar 21, 2012 7:36 am

theCryptofishist wrote:
Forestry?



I was commenting more on all the uses on BLM controlled land. We might think our little event is a huge freaking deal, but BLM lands are not national parks. They're meant to be used and they are. Some are used pretty hard. There is definitely environmental impact, but nothing compared to other BLM uses. I like to think of a BLM official moving from a mining or forestry division and laughing at the serious concern over oil drips from cars.
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Re: New EA (for Permit) Released

Postby DrYes » Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:12 am

LegendZero wrote:What is of interest to me is that there is a public comment period. I am working on a essay in support of burning man being allowed a full permit of up to 70,000 as someone who has not gone. I figure the more public support it get the better.


The only persuasive arguments are going to be logistical, I'd suggest - what's the impact of adding that many extra vehicles, and how do you mitigate it being one of the primary questions.
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Re: New EA (for Permit) Released

Postby DrYes » Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:15 am

Bay Bridge Sue wrote:What scares me are 2 things - One, people (even prepared burners) will default to a "fema refugee" level of survival, and (2) the BMOrg ain't ready to handle that type of scenario.


Thanks for the thoughts on this, Sue. I'm going to bring this up with our camp as a result and see what we can do about preparing for that kind of black swan event.
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Re: New EA (for Permit) Released

Postby VultureChow » Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:51 am

DrYes wrote:
Bay Bridge Sue wrote:What scares me are 2 things - One, people (even prepared burners) will default to a "fema refugee" level of survival, and (2) the BMOrg ain't ready to handle that type of scenario.


Thanks for the thoughts on this, Sue. I'm going to bring this up with our camp as a result and see what we can do about preparing for that kind of black swan event.


You know, in the sort of doomsday scenario that we're talking about here, I don't think the BMorg would hesitate to bring in the authorities. As counterculture or anarchist we might think the event to be, the organizers have grown up a lot over the life of the event and learned to work with the authorities, not against them. BLM and local authorities are already on site, there's an airport set up already. National Guard would be there within 24 hours, and lets face it we're better prepared to be stranded out in the wilderness for an extra day or two than your typical weather emergency. We have the means to boil water and are not dependent on the electrical grid. Tons of generators and solar panels and tents. We're already the best looking FEMA camp there ever was.

That said, nothing wrong with being a little prepared and having a contingency plan in place. In a do or die type evacuation, I imagine the RV's would have their finest hour. Pack us in like sardines and you could evacuate in under 6 hours. If it's a matter of life and death, sure as shit I'm leaving my rental car behind.
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Re: New EA (for Permit) Released

Postby FIGJAM » Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:24 am

In the trapped for days rain senerio, you cannot move any vehicle at all.

2"s of rain creates the slopiest, stickiest goop you have ever seen, and as soon as your wheels moved, you would be up to your axels in it!

Things would have to be air dropped.

I don't think water would be a problem as it could be harvested from all those shade stuctures.

Everybody brings too much food, so I don't think a week would be a problem.

Septic would be the biggest deal, but there are an awful lot of 5gal. buckets at the burn! 8)
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Re: New EA (for Permit) Released

Postby theCryptofishist » Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:30 pm

lemur wrote:not much legalese really.. its actually, if edited to remove repitiveness and extraneous demographics/otherinfo... quite informative about burning man and the black rock desert... would make a neat little book.

i found it quite easy reading actually..

it aint as bad as you think.

Lemur's right. This no where near as painful as I feared. But I'm too cheap to print it, so that's a little hard on my eyes. Makes for great cut and paste, however...
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Re: New EA (for Permit) Released

Postby burner von braun » Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:53 pm

thanks for posting excerpts Fishy..

I agree that the trapped by rain scenario is by far the most likely 'major' event that we might encounter. There would be a substantial need for outside communications at that point as well, burners calling family, work, etc. 100,000 calls out from a place with little or no cell phone service, in a timely manner.
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