Dear BMORG: Please publish who is getting the 10,000 ticket

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Re: Dear BMORG: Please publish who is getting the 10,000 tic

Postby theCryptofishist » Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:32 pm

Thanks, ardentum. That information is already in various places on the board.
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Re: Dear BMORG: Please publish who is getting the 10,000 tic

Postby ZaphodBurner » Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:23 pm

Burnerbot wrote:
Decommodification
In order to preserve the spirit of gifting, our community seeks to create social environments that are unmediated by commercial sponsorships, transactions, or advertising. We stand ready to protect our culture from such exploitation. We resist the substitution of consumption for participatory experience.
~Burning Man Principle 3

Isn't Burning Man turning the art installations, theme camps, etc. into commodities by setting aside 10,000 tickets for them? Whereby the art projects and theme camps are the commodity and the price of the ticket is the price you pay to experience them.


No. Setting aside 43,000 tickets to credit cards you can only assume are going to go to actual "participants" rather than e-tards and sparkle ponies, is turning Burning Man tickets into a commodity. Setting aside 10,000 for people who promise to and have an established record of bringing cool shit to the playa or doing cool shit for the people is not commodification. It's natural selection.

It's what we all want. Cool people doing cool shit on the playa. Not tens of thousands tourists trying to figure out how to update their Facebook status from the middle of the desert and wondering where all the cool shit they heard about went.

For a lot of people here, it appears that Black Rock City is not something to go help build, it's something you get a ticket for, and then you show up and expect other camps to have the city build for you, and take legal responsibility (!!!) for your shit and let you participate in their projects. Somebody else brings the generator and tools and materials for you to use and, goddammit, you're entitled to be radically included.

Apparently, in some weird little e-playa-only world, U-Haul tents and plastic dome structures are more interesting that groups of people who plan ahead and collaborate on something that's more interesting to look at from, say, space than a bunch of dusty Subarus, tarps and rented trucks.
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Re: Dear BMORG: Please publish who is getting the 10,000 tic

Postby wh..sh » Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:22 pm

alt12 wrote:
wh..sh wrote:
Come and talk to me when you build a stylish 3rd storey shower where I could shower while viewing the entire BRC.



Holy shit was that you/your crew that built that elevated show platform on 2:00 last year? Loved it! I don't know what kind of view you had from up there, but trust me our view of all of you showering was awesome!


Unfortunately, you weren't enjoying us. We were all the way back on 5.30. But we do try our best to put a good showering show :)
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Re: Dear BMORG: Please publish who is getting the 10,000 tic

Postby Isotopia » Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:09 pm

we only really need the paid staff out there to layout the city and put the portapotties in position and then clean everything up in the end.


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Re: Dear BMORG: Please publish who is getting the 10,000 tic

Postby alt12 » Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:20 pm

wh..sh wrote:
alt12 wrote:
wh..sh wrote:
Come and talk to me when you build a stylish 3rd storey shower where I could shower while viewing the entire BRC.



Holy shit was that you/your crew that built that elevated show platform on 2:00 last year? Loved it! I don't know what kind of view you had from up there, but trust me our view of all of you showering was awesome!


Unfortunately, you weren't enjoying us. We were all the way back on 5.30. But we do try our best to put a good showering show :)


Well I'll have to swing by next time. Sounds like you would appreciate this camp's set-up though. They set-up a mass-shower (probably 8-10 shower heads) on an 2nd story elevated platform right on 2:00 facing the playa. Best part was that the entire shower structure was made of glass or some kind of plexiglass/clear plastic that appeared to provide 360 degrees of visibility while showering and of course 360 degrees worth of neighboring eyeballs watching them all shower together. It was quite a spectacle. Lot of traffic jams suddenly on 2:00 in the middle of the day :D
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Re: Dear BMORG: Please publish who is getting the 10,000 tic

Postby Savannah » Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:42 am

Damn, that's amazing.

It blows me away how different everyone's Burn is. :lol:



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Re: Dear BMORG: Please publish who is getting the 10,000 tic

Postby mshaman » Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:17 am

The CO wrote:
mshaman wrote:why not publish the criteria by which the camps were chosen?


They've already done so. It is in multiple places here and on the main site.


Right, But it's vague at best. A lot of room for misinterpretation/ambiguity. The notion is radical self-reliance, i.e. having control over my destiny, which I do not have under the current system.
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Re: Dear BMORG: Please publish who is getting the 10,000 tic

Postby lemur » Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:20 am

its pretty darned simple.

they gave 4 point criteria

they said about 50% of the theme camps would get some assistance.


so what does that mean ?


anything above the 50th percentile gets a chance at assistance.


not so hard to figure out what that means.



do you think youre well above the 50th percentile of camps ? or on the border?


pretty easy....
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Re: Dear BMORG: Please publish who is getting the 10,000 tic

Postby mshaman » Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:54 am

lemur wrote:its pretty darned simple.

they gave 4 point criteria

they said about 50% of the theme camps would get some assistance.


so what does that mean ?


anything above the 50th percentile gets a chance at assistance.


not so hard to figure out what that means.



do you think youre well above the 50th percentile of camps ? or on the border?


pretty easy....


Let me try again to articulate why I want more disclosure and why I think the 4 criteria, as outlined, are too ambiguous for me to feel clear about how these choices were made, lemur.

1. History: We don't know how many years other camps have been going, how many points of contact they have, or how it is calculated. My camp has lots of different people who used to be in lots of different camps. But the amalgamated camp doesn't have much of a track-record. So what are the nuts and bolts of how counting points of contact or history with BM works? We got passed over even though we have strong contributors and strong contributions, apparently because we haven't registered together as a group? Hrm. How do we know why, really?

2. Demonstrating community benefit is totally subjective without having some criteria around it. For example does BMOrg measure benefit by how many visitors are attracted to it? If so, Nexus has high value, and soul-opening, life-changing workshops on sacred practice through meditation or tantra are not. They only get 15-20 visitors per session by design. It totally depends on the subjective priorities of the person grading me. I don't really even know who is grading me. This organization is terrible about accountability as a general rule.

3. LNT map history is the most objective measure here, but it is flawed, as camps that draw crowds (presumably because they create benefit) are penalized by the moop of visitors.

4. How "fully we embrace the 10 principles" is again, a totally subjective measure. Which principles are most important to the person who happens to be grading me? How much of the grading is really just the halo effect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halo_effect) or nepotism?

The concepts ARE simple. The nuts and bolts of implementation are not, and right now those nuts and bolts are a big black hole.
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Re: Dear BMORG: Please publish who is getting the 10,000 tic

Postby Simon of the Playa » Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:02 am

soul-opening, life-changing workshops on sacred practice through meditation or tantra are not.



I 100 percent agree with this statement.


i NEVER visit these types of spiritual snake-oil charmers with their patchouli stained thongs and their "healing" practices.


please....


now shut up, Hippy.
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Re: Dear BMORG: Please publish who is getting the 10,000 tic

Postby BBadger » Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:13 am

mshaman wrote:3. LNT map history is the most objective measure here, but it is flawed, as camps that draw crowds (presumably because they create benefit) are penalized by the moop of visitors.


This measure is not flawed, principally because camps are expected to clean up after themselves and whatever crowds they do draw in. If anything, the ability and history of camps dealing with such "external" problems should have a very high weighting factor. It demonstrates the ability of the camp to go above and beyond the duties of camp-centric activities into the realm of a responsible service to the community. Expect those camps who left gangrenous MOOP zones along 10:00 to lose privileges.
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Re: Dear BMORG: Please publish who is getting the 10,000 tic

Postby Simon of the Playa » Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:14 am

OH, YOU MEAN THE TEMPLE OF MOOP? FROM UTAH? THOSE FUCKNUTS?
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Re: Dear BMORG: Please publish who is getting the 10,000 tic

Postby Roberto Dobbisano » Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:38 am

dont name names....it's not nice....


but really, BLACK?......double WTF? with gravy on the side.....i suppose that in opposite world this is a good thing.

it makes the LNT ethos ALL THAT MORE IMPORTANT ESPECIALLY WITH THE LARGE HIGHLY FREQUENTED CAMPS.

since this hash mark on the underwear of the sound camps is flying for all to see, it's time to step the fuck up, and rigidly enforce cajole, beg, plead, remind, threaten, shame, mock, whatever the fuck it takes to get the message across that

YOUR MOTHER DOES NOT FUCKING LIVE HERE< CLEAN UP AFTER YOUR GODDAMN SELVES

and possibly pick up some extra moop for playa karma points or whatever.

it has to happen....no more let the universe take care of it bullshit....a plan, and ACTIVE PARTICIPATION BY ALL LARGE CAMPS to remind our many guests and VIRGIN participants that WE DONT CARE HOW FUCKED UP YOU ARE ON MOLLY THATS NO EXCUSE TO THROW YOUR SHIT ON THE GROUND....DUH.

NO MOOPING, NO MUSIC.....you wanna hear the sweet sweet WOMP dirty little dready? well PICK UP # PIECES OF SHIT AND PUT IT IN YOUR GODDAMN BEADED FANNY PACK WITH YOUR DRUGS SO YOU WONT LOSE IT

do this REPEATEDLY throughout the day, and the evenings...lather, rinse, repeat.

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LETS ERASE THE CHEESE LEFT ON THE BICYCLE SEAT LAST YEAR BY SOME CAMPS AND START ASKING OUR DANCERS, CAVORTERS, DJ'S, FREAKS HIPPIES DUBSTEPPING DREADIES AND HOPPED UP BIRGINS TO HELP US HELP THEM and maybe just maybe, spread the virus of Leave No Trace wherever they go after that.

if we can teach just a few, they will pass it on to many.

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seriously....ok Rant Over....i need a delicious piece of burning cancer....MMmmmmmmmarlboro black, how you market straight to my soul...
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Re: Dear BMORG: Please publish who is getting the 10,000 tic

Postby lemur » Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:44 am

and when all of that doesnt work... BE PREPARED TO HAUL THEIR MESS OUT.

dont be some wimp ass "BUT ITS NOT MYYYYYY MOOP!!"



IT IS NOW, PAL.
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Re: Dear BMORG: Please publish who is getting the 10,000 tic

Postby mshaman » Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:47 am

Bwahah. Hit a nerve on the moop issue. I agree, training the throngs of ravers to play nice with the playa is a good thing.
Last edited by mshaman on Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dear BMORG: Please publish who is getting the 10,000 tic

Postby Simon of the Playa » Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:48 am

in 2010 we hauled out a 24' box truck filled to the tippy top with trash.

conservative estimates 50% not ours.

we know the deal all too well, and already have a plan to fix what has been broken for a long time.

we are going to make Moop Nazi look like Richard Fucking Simmons.
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Re: Dear BMORG: Please publish who is getting the 10,000 tic

Postby Roberto Dobbisano » Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:50 am

note to other selves, order extra cattle prods.
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Re: Dear BMORG: Please publish who is getting the 10,000 tic

Postby mshaman » Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:55 am

Simon of the Playa wrote:OH, YOU MEAN THE TEMPLE OF MOOP? FROM UTAH? THOSE FUCKNUTS?


Gee Simon, telly me how you really feel. Don't hold back now... :-) I'm flattered that you've called me a hippie twice, now; Being from Colorado, I sport Birkenstocks with socks on the playa while wearing a Patagonia vest and sipping green tea (iced) from my Nalgene bottle. Can I share my Clif bar with you? That's not hippy, it's local flavor! ROTFL
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Re: Dear BMORG: Please publish who is getting the 10,000 tic

Postby Bexx » Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:57 am

Thanks for the comedy! Glittermousepoo!!
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Re: Dear BMORG: Please publish who is getting the 10,000 tic

Postby mshaman » Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:57 am

BBadger wrote:
mshaman wrote:3. LNT map history is the most objective measure here, but it is flawed, as camps that draw crowds (presumably because they create benefit) are penalized by the moop of visitors.


This measure is not flawed, principally because camps are expected to clean up after themselves and whatever crowds they do draw in. If anything, the ability and history of camps dealing with such "external" problems should have a very high weighting factor. It demonstrates the ability of the camp to go above and beyond the duties of camp-centric activities into the realm of a responsible service to the community. Expect those camps who left gangrenous MOOP zones along 10:00 to lose privileges.


Okay, so one of 4 is a valid measure. Let's work on understanding how the Org implements the other 3.
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Re: Dear BMORG: Please publish who is getting the 10,000 tic

Postby lemur » Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:58 am

mshaman wrote:
Let me try again to articulate why I want more disclosure and why I think the 4 criteria, as outlined, are too ambiguous for me to feel clear about how these choices were made, lemur.



it really sucks but feelings simply dont matter in this situation

the ppls are makin hard decisions, yo, they have some ideas of what they are looking for.. hell they will be applying those ideas MANY HUNDREDS OF TIMES to end up with the final results.

go ahead and read some tealeaves!! cuz there wont likely be any release of more info on the process.

your camp didnt get assistance, well now you know what 50th percentile means.. above the bar ? YEP YOURE OK.. not above the bar? probably not ok.

will you get an explanation of "whyyyyy" (im sure plenty of people will be wanting to know ALL of the details) ..maybe, maybe not..i would guess towards no.

does it matter why you might not get assistance? not really.

does it matter why you did get assistance? not really.

either bring yer camp out with what you got, or dont..

either step up yer game in all 4 areas for 2012, or 2013.. or not..

kick ass every year whether youre being measured or not..

sitting around just dying to know the inside info really wont get you anywhere, they are deciding how stuff happens in 2012 in terms of assistance based upon past stuff..... too late to change it now anyways! and really, if they did give out info thatd give you a chance... everyone would probably just put that on their application "FUCKIN LASERS AND TRAPEZE ARTISTS!!" 500 times over.

knowing the process wont help your chances this year.. and if you arent above the bar, you can just know you need to up the game altogether..

are there dozens upon dozens of camps who think they are the best thing on the playa when odds are they totally suck and are way below the bar of the 50th percentile of awesome camps out there every year (even before 2012)??? ...probably....

is your camp one of them? can you realistically measure the success and awesomeness of your camp without foolish bias? ..if you can, odds are you already know your chances of assistance in 2012...

and hell, if you cant brung what you wanted... bring what you CAN. .. that will surely show some awesomeness, if you can kick ass even on a smaller scale than you had wished for.

basically..

it all boils down to.. if you fuckin kick ass, you kick ass... and you know it...whether you get assistance or not, youre gonna kick ass!!

do you KICK ASS?!
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Re: Dear BMORG: Please publish who is getting the 10,000 tic

Postby BBadger » Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:08 am

mshaman wrote:Okay, so one of 4 is a valid measure. Let's work on understanding how the Org implements the other 3.


The other three are very subjective, or have too little data to make a proper judgement. In the end, a lot is going to boil down to the same important criterion that many Honorarium awards are based on: if we like it.
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Re: Dear BMORG: Please publish who is getting the 10,000 tic

Postby Simon of the Playa » Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:17 am

I sport Birkenstocks with socks on the playa



ok, i stand corrected...you're german.
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Re: Dear BMORG: Please publish who is getting the 10,000 tic

Postby mshaman » Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:30 am

@lemur
Umm, yes, I kick ass, but obviously the BM yardstick is not designed to measure the epic proportion of my ass-kickery. :-) So what does the yardstick look like? How am I supposed to please the powers that be for next year?

I know you read Neitche by your signature, and I'm hoping Hobbes and Locke, too. To paraphrase some legal philosophy:

1. The law is a social contract
2. The law must be reasonable, fair, and impartial
3. The law must be written down so that those governed by it can abide by it.
4. If the law ceases to be reasonable (social contract is broken), the governed can withdraw their consent to be governed (revolution, in the extreme case).

So. What I'm saying is that the law is too vague to know how to abide by it. If the above principles had been observed throughout this process, it would've been easier. But it's now water under the bridge. So now I have to look at next year, and that means understanding how to get a broken system to work in my favor. Clearly the ticket process will look different next year. But understanding the motives of this unstable group of governors will help me anticipate and manage my situation so that whatever priorities _really_ drive this process can be dealt with.

Yes it DOES matter if I know WHY I did or didn't get assistance, because it lets me know what the Org values and does not, and how I can get better success with them in the future.

A theme camp is an organization. It is a strategic endeavor that requires analytical processing in addition to creativity, and having more knowledge of the playing field is ALWAYS helpful. So yes. It does matter. And yes. I do kick ass.
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Re: Dear BMORG: Please publish who is getting the 10,000 tic

Postby mshaman » Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:32 am

@lemur, I Do agree with the sentiment that you just need to bring your best game no matter what. I won't contest that on any level.
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Re: Dear BMORG: Please publish who is getting the 10,000 tic

Postby wh..sh » Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:33 am

alt12 wrote:Well I'll have to swing by next time. Sounds like you would appreciate this camp's set-up though. They set-up a mass-shower (probably 8-10 shower heads) on an 2nd story elevated platform right on 2:00 facing the playa. Best part was that the entire shower structure was made of glass or some kind of plexiglass/clear plastic that appeared to provide 360 degrees of visibility while showering and of course 360 degrees worth of neighboring eyeballs watching them all shower together. It was quite a spectacle. Lot of traffic jams suddenly on 2:00 in the middle of the day :D


Sounds awesome! Ours was more private, one person shower with plexiglass which was strategically placed. One of the best experiences!
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Re: Dear BMORG: Please publish who is getting the 10,000 tic

Postby tamarakay » Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:41 am

Oh well crap. What does it mean when I start agreeing with Lemur and Bbadger?

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Re: Dear BMORG: Please publish who is getting the 10,000 tic

Postby The CO » Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:08 am

mshaman wrote:1. History: We don't know how many years other camps have been going...


Click here to go to the theme camp page. Look on the right side where it says 'theme camp archive'.
Yes, it's a list of registered theme camps, and makes no mention of the non-registered ones. But, in the eyes of the org, I can see how a camp that takes the time to register shows a bit of planning and consistency. Those are traits one wants in a camp that is maybe going to get offered tickets.

mshaman wrote:2. Demonstrating community benefit is totally subjective...


Maybe there is a reason they have been putting out a census questionnaire for many, many years. It might give them feedback on camps that have good or bad public reactions.
Or maybe they read the boards, and facebook, and look at things like which camps get complained about or complimented a lot.
Or maybe, they do whacky things like ask placers from years previous which camps they saw demonstrating community benefit.

There are plenty of criteria that are quantifiable in that regard. Ultimately though, it's their event and they can do what they see fit.
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Re: Dear BMORG: Please publish who is getting the 10,000 tic

Postby lemur » Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:18 am

mshaman wrote:@lemur
the BM yardstick is not designed to measure the epic proportion of my ass-kickery. :-) So what does the yardstick look like? How am I supposed to please the powers that be for next year?


What I'm saying is that the law is too vague to know how to abide by it........ I have to look at next year, and that means understanding how to get a broken system to work in my favor.

Yes it DOES matter if I know WHY I did or didn't get assistance, because it lets me know what the Org values and does not, and how I can get better success with them in the future.


something ive heard often when doing DMV stuff is "we're not in the mutant vehicle consulting business"

perhaps the law/guidelines are intentionally vague?

theme camps arent so dissimilar than the DMV, they give you some basic guidelines, you do stuff within those guidelines and you either kick ass or you dont...

if they just told you exactly what to do, everyone would just do that, and itd be pretty darn boring..

i think that line about not being in the consulting business is very important here..

you dont need to know their law, it doesnt need to be laid out for you in an understandable way, the criteria beyond the vagueness just simply doesnt matter ....youre the one who should be setting that bar! outside of not fitting in to the vague criteria set out for theme camps in general, and the 4 things for this assistance situation.. ..you gotta decide your own law! you gotta make it happen for you... if your own law doesnt kick ass... knowing what the LLC is looking for probably wont help all that much.

if your awesomeness comes from you ... you wont need the LLC guidelines in order to kick ass....... your ass kickingness will be evident to anyone who looks.. and ya kno what? those are probably the ones who will get assistance with tickets this year.... and ya know what else? those same ones would probably go out and kick ass even if they didnt get assistance.

radical self reliance, and all that stuff.

Are you a new strength and a new right? A first motion? A self-rolling wheel? Can you even compel the stars to revolve around you?

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Free, do you call yourself? Free from what? Your fiery eyes should tell me: free for what!

Can you give yourself your own evil and good, and set up your own will as a law over you? Can you be a judge for yourself, and avenger of your own law?

Terrible is it to be alone with the judge and avenger of one's own law. Thus is a star thrown into the void, and into the icy breath of solitude

You solitary one, you must be ready to burn yourself in your own flame; how could you rise anew if you have not first become ashes!

You solitary one, you go the way of the creator!


yeah, it may suck not knowing the exact stuff they are looking for... yeah it can be pretty terrible to have to figure it out on yer own without following an easily understandable set of guidelines......

but hey!!! perhaps in the end youll come out of it being better...finding ways to be more kick-ass on your own.. without any external help....because youve learned it's within you to do so...
Last edited by lemur on Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dear BMORG: Please publish who is getting the 10,000 tic

Postby mshaman » Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:19 am

@CO, thank you, this is helpful.
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