Location: Silicon Valley
robrob wrote:Location: Silicon Valley
that explains the enginnering solutions for what is essentially a social problem
HandJamMasterC wrote:In order to thin the exodus jam, perhaps extend the burn one more day (soft close), and have one last burn Monday night to entice those who don't have tight schedules to stay until Tuesday. Perhaps some DPW/infrastructure dismantling could begin Monday (example: outer ring of porta-johns could begin clossure, LEO could begin reassignment) to save them some time.
Perhaps we could get the ticket cap raised if the BLM permit was modified so that pre-placed / registered theme camp operators could stay until Tuesday or Wed., which would lessen the traffic impact of people leaving on Sunday and Monday. There were I believe 20K people in early last year setting up theme camps. If just 10K could wait and leave later on Tuesday or Wed, should be able to justify 10K more tickets.
JimGrisham wrote:P.S. There have got to be some economist burners out there - it couldn't hurt to ask for their opinion, with the understanding that they may be busy people who probably don't read this forum.
bradtem wrote:Once again, a STEP program that allows transfer (rather than refund) does not make tickets get sold at face value. No system that allows transfer can do this, because the scalper just says, "Give me $500 and I will sell you a ticket at face value in the STEP program for an additional $290." Sure it's breaking the rules -- it's already breaking the rules.
The only way I know of to assure tickets are not sold far above face value is tickets that can't be transferred at all, only returned for refund. Only if you can't promise who the ticket is going to can you prevent extra money flowing by alternate channels. Perhaps with a program that made people swear they were not doing it you could catch some scalpers and sue them, but that' s expensive and may not even be that effective.
Ninjaparamedic wrote:I have a several simple ideas for next year that I haven't seen posted elsewhere:
Complete Low income ticketing prior to main sale
Consider expanding low income ticketing
bradtem wrote:To be clear, there are two different approaches (at least.)
With transferable tickets, people sell (or gift) their tickets to friends, campmates and strangers whom they find via web-sites and social networks. They may do so at face value, or quite commonly at market prices (which are much higher) though this is disdained. Under this system if you don't have a ticket you get it either by knowing the right people, being lucky enough to be the first to respond to a face value offer, or more commonly, by paying market price to a burner or scalper.
With non-transferable tickets, people can simply return their tickets to the pool for a (face value or less) refund. There, the tickets are sold again to buyers on a waiting list, at face value. Under this system if you don't have a ticket you get on the waiting list, and have the same chance as anybody else under whatever system the waiting list is run under. No tickets sell for more than face value.
With the multi-person ticket option, a third strategy is possible, namely that tickets can exist that only work if you enter Burning Man in the company of the master ticket holder. In this case, people are able to get friends and campmates in, but it's much harder to arrange strangers in and very hard for scalpers. What the master ticket holder charges is up to them, it can be market price or face value, but since it's among friends there is pressure that it be face value.
Colonel Monk wrote:The return ticket thing is viable, but it sucks that you can't get a ticket from someone you know. But then again, if it kills off scalping I'm for it.
Colonel Monk wrote:OK, if it's got to be lottery I think that our veteran status should count for something.
Colonel Monk wrote:I still think the FCFS ticket system is the most fair at this point, in that it did not let me down in previous years. Seems we can't have paper tix and have this work, so we need to go to a non-transferable ticket scenario.
bradtem wrote:Colonel Monk wrote:The return ticket thing is viable, but it sucks that you can't get a ticket from someone you know. But then again, if it kills off scalping I'm for it.
This is the central question. Does this indeed suck? Because as it turns out that while non-transferable tickets to lock scalpers out of the market, they also make it much for difficult for a group of people to request many more tickets in the lottery than they need. These two factors (Scalpers and over-requesters) are the main reason you don't have a ticket right now and may not get one.
Why should "I happen to be friends with somebody who did win the lottery" be the criteria under which one gets a ticket. Why does it suck if this is not the criteria? Obviously from your standpoint, your friend is a great choice for the extra ticket you ordered. But when you won it, you deprived other people of the ability to go. From the community's standpoint, why is your friend a better choice than the person at the head of the waiting list? Or why is some stranger you found on craigslist a better choice?
Right now, the camps that entered the lottery 2x or 3x times to assure themselves of tickets and thus have everybody going are being silent. They don't want to admit they did this, because they're a big part of why you aren't going. I wonder what they would do if they were told they can't sell or gift their extras, only return them.
theCryptofishist wrote:Colonel Monk wrote:OK, if it's got to be lottery I think that our veteran status should count for something.
Oh, you are just so special that my heart is breaking...
No, wait, it isn't.
Four legs good, no legs better. Four legs good, no legs...
Max Callahan wrote:Edit: I realize I haven't put in a positive solution, and this is the positive solution thread, so here goes.
A lot of concern with any sort of named non transferable tickets is we'll slow the gate and traffic will back up onto the 447. I've spent a lot of time staring at the playa on google maps (I'm ocd what can i say) and it looks like there is enough playa between the pavement and the city to put in an entire nother city, there should be enough space to park every single vehicle that ends up in the city south of the gates if we put in enough holding lanes. Not more active gates mind you, just more lanes to stash cars in. Combine this with a surging system like we have for exodus and we can make entry work even if we end up with 7 hour entries like we had with last years 7 hour exodus.
Also, please please please set up to surge entry, 3 hours of creep forward 10 feet every 1-2 minutes was hellish, 7 hours of exodus, even in the mid day sun was tolerable, and at times even pleasant since I knew I could stop the car, get out stretch, talk to people, hit the potties, and generally loiter.
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