Influx of Virgins: Survival Guide forum stickies

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Influx of Virgins: Survival Guide forum stickies

Postby Canoe » Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:58 pm

I've seen entire camps of Virgins arrive inadequately equipped/prepared, with no one having read, and few even heard of, the Survival Guide. With the resultant issues with equipment, medical & MOOP.

With the huge influx of Virgins for 2012, along with the apparent inevitable lower numbers of experienced Burners to help/guide them on-playa, to cut down on the avoidable-use of on-playa resources at BRC, I humbly propose ('cause I don't have a big stick), that the contents (actual contents, not just a link) of the most current Survival Guide be posted as a sticky at the top of several ePlaya sub-forums, including but not limited to:
  • Preparation - Shelter & Camping
  • Preparation - Transportation
  • Preparation - Clothing & playawear
  • Preparation - Food & Drink
  • Preparation - Power & Illumination
  • Preparation - Keeping Cool
  • Preparation - Q&Q Tips and Tricks
  • Tickets?
  • others?
It is redundant with the guide available on the main site, and it will be a minor pain to change these contents when the Survival Guide gets updated (but that happens infrequently), whereas the benefits of having more Virgins actually read the guide is paramount.
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Re: Influx of Virgins: Survival Guide forum stickies

Postby lemur » Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:06 pm

do they still mail a survival guide out to everyone who buys a ticket from the LLC itself ? i used to get them in the mail..

i guess buying from a secondary market you cut yourself out of this loop...
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Re: Influx of Virgins: Survival Guide forum stickies

Postby Canoe » Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:14 pm

My Survival Guide does arrive by mail. So far, always after the event is over.

(New Rule?: for entry, every vehicle with Virgin(s) must have a copy of the Survival Guide with them.)
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Re: Influx of Virgins: Survival Guide forum stickies

Postby oneeyeddick » Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:14 pm

We will have to leave a big pile of those by the tunnel entrance.
We have an obligation to make space for everyone, we have no obligation to make that space pleasant.
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Re: Influx of Virgins: Survival Guide forum stickies

Postby Canoe » Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:04 am

Forgot. LOCKED thread. Contents only the current version of Survival Guide.
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Re: Influx of Virgins: Survival Guide forum stickies

Postby Drawingablank » Sun Feb 12, 2012 6:30 am

I doubt many folks who can't be bothered reading it on the main site will notice eplaya or bother reading it here, but I guess if it helps even one person be enlightened it is worth trying.

My mailed survival guide arrived after I left for BRC. Since we only headed out 4 days before opening day, perhaps getting them out a bit sooner would help ensure that more people read it.
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Re: Influx of Virgins: Survival Guide forum stickies

Postby Sham » Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:31 am

That's why the survival guide link is in my address below. Click it and give it a try. Really, give it a try! :D
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Re: Influx of Virgins: Survival Guide forum stickies

Postby tamarakay » Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:04 am

Our survival guide was in the mailbox as we were driving out the driveway to start our trip there. You would think it would go out much much earlier than that.
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Re: Influx of Virgins: Survival Guide forum stickies

Postby trilobyte » Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:48 am

The update gets published electronically and then they get mailed out in the summer. Last year did seem to arrive later than usual, I'm not sure what may have contributed to that.

The idea has merit, but I strongly suspect that the target audience (totally clueless first-timers) aren't the sort who've spent time researching the site on message boards. If someone gets as far as ePlaya, they're WAY ahead of the curve. Next time I'm at HQ I'll see if I can connect with the team that puts the guide together and run the idea by them. In the meantime, you may want to consider something like putting what you consider to be 'essential reading' links in your signature line.
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Re: Influx of Virgins: Survival Guide forum stickies

Postby Sage Venkman » Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:48 am

Rather than a scalper crisis, I think we have a virgin crisis, and besides pointing and laughing, which I expect to amuse myself doing a lot this year, there are some concrete things we can do that we've already been doing in the regionals:

1) Get the word out, especially if the ORG could use that massive marketing database to help us.
2) Get those virgins into the regionals, our events, and out of the bars and into our streets.
3) Educate, educate, educate.

We pulled in a lot of the virgin overflow from Hushville last year, and we had to deal with unequipped virgins (with little more than a six pack of PBR and power bars), educate on gifting instead of bartering, and their MOOP. I've been a green hippy on the DPW map for over a decade now, and I don't intend to let my perfect record get messed up by some virgin. Last year was a bit more of a challenge.
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Re: Influx of Virgins: Survival Guide forum stickies

Postby Sage Venkman » Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:50 am

Last year was "Laslow's Hierarchy of Needs a go-go." Don't start me on the story of "the Ice Thief."
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Re: Influx of Virgins: Survival Guide forum stickies

Postby trilobyte » Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:57 am

I think it would be a mistake to assume that all or most first timers would be clueless. 6 times in the past the event had at least doubled in size, which would mean half of the people at BRC had never been before. It didn't ruin the event, and there were no widespread reports of Burning Man being filled with spectators or there not being any theme camps.
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Re: Influx of Virgins: Survival Guide forum stickies

Postby Canoe » Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:04 pm

trilobyte wrote:... I strongly suspect that the target audience (totally clueless first-timers) aren't the sort who've spent time researching the site on message boards. If someone gets as far as ePlaya, they're WAY ahead of the curve. Next time I'm at HQ I'll see if I can connect with the team that puts the guide together and run the idea by them. In the meantime, you may want to consider something like putting what you consider to be 'essential reading' links in your signature line.


I'm seeing Virgins posting under Tickets, Preparation and Theme Camps. They're here. Let's maximize the chance of steering them to the Survival Guide.

We can put last years Survival Guide up as a sticky, now?
At the very least, a closed sticky topic of "Virgin & Return Burners: Please read Official Burning Man Survival Guide" and the link (and a small amount of text along the lines of 'find out what you need, be safe, have fun, before you start spending money on equipment & supplies'?).
Maximize the chances.

If we add the link to the guide to our signatures, then we up the chances again.


The JRS release said that 40% were Virgins.
I may have done the math wrong, but...
Assuming usually 10% Virgins, we're looking at 4x the usually number of Virgins.
Ratio of Virgins to Burners: from 1:9, to BM 2012 facing 6:9

From one Virgin for nine return Burners, to six Virgins per nine return Burners.

I'm a one-man camp for mobile water, electrolyte, dust-masks, sunscreen and vinegar, but I can't bring a cube van worth.
Last edited by Canoe on Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Influx of Virgins: Survival Guide forum stickies

Postby Sage Venkman » Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:06 pm

I didn't say that virgins are all going to be clueless, previous experience with the regionals and at the Burn shows that the majority of virgins are enthusiastic to get in the groove of things and want be good members of the community. However, when you add volume and higher percentages of newbies, like last year, you add a few misinformed apples into the barrel. The effect of a few virgins who don't know what they are doing has an effect disproportionate to their number. MOOP is the simplest example, the BLM agreement that the ORG has with them provides for a very small tolerance for MOOP post-event, and some of that MOOP gets buried and resurfaces years later. It only takes a few misinformed virgins to tilt that into the red. I'm just saying what I saw last year, and if not for the intercession of a few of my camp mates we would have been very very red on the DPW map.

My logic is if the virgin problem was "not so good" last year, after a decade at the burn, the trend with the ticketing indicators of where we will be next year, says it could be much much worse.
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Re: Influx of Virgins: Survival Guide forum stickies

Postby Sage Venkman » Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:08 pm

Agreed that we need to sticky the survival guide and get that up as a periodic posting on the Facebook page. Can we request somebody with the ability to do that, does that?
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Re: Influx of Virgins: Survival Guide forum stickies

Postby trilobyte » Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:19 pm

It would also be a mistake to assume that new participants are responsible for all the MOOP. You cite last year's high volume and percentage of newbies, yet it was our best year yet for playa restoration. Sure, that black spot was a mess, but the people responsible (Rites Of Zion/Temple Of Boom) were not new.
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Re: Influx of Virgins: Survival Guide forum stickies

Postby lemur » Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:22 pm

ive heard vets who says things like 'who cares.. the dpw will clean it up'
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Re: Influx of Virgins: Survival Guide forum stickies

Postby Canoe » Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:25 pm

Sage Venkman wrote:... when you add volume and higher percentages of newbies, ... The effect of a few virgins who don't know what they are doing has an effect disproportionate to their number ... My logic is if the virgin problem was "not so good" last year, ... the trend with the ticketing indicators of where we will be next year, says it could be much much worse.

Yup.
Apart from saving someone a long walk back to their camp (or other source) to get water, at least 95% of those I help are Virgins. Now there will be 4x as many of them? Along with fewer experienced Burners for them to turn to?
Every Virgin reached is a better time for all.
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Re: Influx of Virgins: Survival Guide forum stickies

Postby lemur » Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:34 pm

for some reason.. this particular photograph keeps coming to mind when these 'omg save the virgins from themselves!' type topics come up::


Image




would hurt to fall off that thing!
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Re: Influx of Virgins: Survival Guide forum stickies

Postby Sage Venkman » Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:59 pm

trilobyte wrote:It would also be a mistake to assume that new participants are responsible for all the MOOP. You cite last year's high volume and percentage of newbies, yet it was our best year yet for playa restoration. Sure, that black spot was a mess, but the people responsible (Rites Of Zion/Temple Of Boom) were not new.


That's a really good point. We all have our individual perceptions, and another camp in the same area last year told me they had the same experience, we took up the MOOP responsibilities for a number of virgins. I don't remember that happening in a previous decade of Burns. The point I guess is that a lot of us take that MOOP responsibility seriously. We don't just throw it on DPW, we just make sure that shit gets done. Another example would be an unofficial regional I took part in. One year, we hauled out four trucks of MOOP, all due to virgins. The next year we made education a priority, and didn't even fill one truck. That's what I'm advocating for, making sure we get more in the virgin's faces about MOOP so the few offenders don't create a disproportionate problem.
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Re: Influx of Virgins: Survival Guide forum stickies

Postby Sage Venkman » Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:03 pm

Like I said, the vast majority of virgins want to be informed and be good members of the community. The minority create a disproportional problem. Our corner of the world was looking pretty bad.
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Re: Influx of Virgins: Survival Guide forum stickies

Postby Sage Venkman » Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:46 pm

Don't get me wrong, I think the virgins every year make Burning Man their own and that what makes it fresh. It's not a question of Veteran vs. Virgin or the Burner vs. Burner we've been seeing. I think for two years we've dealt with a number of jarring changes, I get that. We have passion, we're trying to figure it out. We will, we always do, but there's what the bigger ORG deals with as problems and there's what the smaller parts of the world deal with. We're all part of the solution, sometimes a socratic dialogue is needed.
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Re: Influx of Virgins: Survival Guide forum stickies

Postby ApolloPan » Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:36 pm

trilobyte wrote:It would also be a mistake to assume that new participants are responsible for all the MOOP. You cite last year's high volume and percentage of newbies, yet it was our best year yet for playa restoration. Sure, that black spot was a mess, but the people responsible (Rites Of Zion/Temple Of Boom) were not new.

As sad as it sounds, I know a number of older theme camps who had bright red foot prints on the MOOP Map two years ago. Always green in my operations- my short-lived theme camp, Pan's Garden, did use the innovative tool of installing a short garden fence around the edges of our shade structure. Much like the garbage fences DPW puts up, even a short run of two foot high T-stakes with plastic mess with help catch moop from tables & high traffic areas of your camp.
Last year was a fine example of great community moop control, on the whole. I think it had to do with not allowing entry on Friday/Saturday, and tickets being sold out- the lack of random fratboys leaving beer bottles in their wake were notable on Burn night by their absence. Never underestimate the new trend of community "potty police" who adopt their local rows of Pot-o-Johns to remove moop & maintain things for the cleaning crews. I hate to brag, but Pan's Garden featured that very task as part of my community service mission- chemical proof gloves are cheap, and the stares you get from your fellow participants are worth braving the odors while fishing out glow stick ;) The real pay-off was the single "thank you" I got from the Johny on the Spot crew one fine morning. Be well & have fun!
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Re: Influx of Virgins: Survival Guide forum stickies

Postby trilobyte » Fri Mar 16, 2012 2:46 pm

There was no change with regards to Friday/Saturday entrance being allowed. I think the improvement in behavior (which has been a growing trend since DA started making and publishing the map) is the result of increased awareness of things like the MOOP map and people generally wanting to do the right thing.
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Re: Influx of Virgins: Survival Guide forum stickies

Postby RaffaV » Tue May 29, 2012 9:09 am

Wow, the way people are hating on the "virgins" is really saddening to me. I'm a first time burner going this year and I makes me worry that I'm not going to be welcomed into this experience with the open arms that I was always lead to believe would be waiting for me. You were all new at one point. Peace everyone, enjoy the day and remember this is supposed to be fun. I'm still excited!
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Re: Influx of Virgins: Survival Guide forum stickies

Postby theCryptofishist » Tue May 29, 2012 9:35 am

People will love you on the playa. Of course, by that time they will have worked through their resentments about the ticketing issues this year. Helped, in large part perhaps, by the fact that the people on the playa will have tickets...
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Re: Influx of Virgins: Survival Guide forum stickies

Postby Marscrumbs » Thu May 31, 2012 5:23 pm

What a tragedy this will be for burningman culture. For every dead virgin they will make up a new rule next year.
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Re: Influx of Virgins: Survival Guide forum stickies

Postby Marscrumbs » Thu May 31, 2012 5:24 pm

RaffaV wrote:Wow, the way people are hating on the "virgins" is really saddening to me. I'm a first time burner going this year and I makes me worry that I'm not going to be welcomed into this experience with the open arms that I was always lead to believe would be waiting for me. You were all new at one point. Peace everyone, enjoy the day and remember this is supposed to be fun. I'm still excited!


I hate you all ready. Your best bet is to read the guide, be prepared, and not tell anyone this is your first year.

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Re: Influx of Virgins: Survival Guide forum stickies

Postby trilobyte » Thu May 31, 2012 6:24 pm

The real tragedy is attitudes like yours, Marscrumbs. We were all new once, and somehow managed to figure shit out and survive. The city's also survived larger percentages of the population being new, and the culture not only survived but thrived.
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Re: Influx of Virgins: Survival Guide forum stickies

Postby alexana » Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:11 am

I agree with trilobyte, the only way to shape the new community is to lead by example and with kindness. I have never been to burning man and sure don't plan on being a virgin soon, but this was by far the most unexpected thread for me to find, not very welcoming. I do agree that virgins should be more well-informed and there are problems with ticketing, but hate is never the answer, sad to see it in a place like this. Made an account just to say that, hope anyone reading this will be kind and welcoming to virgins this year. Who knows? they may offer you something extraordinary.
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