Positive Suggestions for Fixing What Is Obviously Broken

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Positive Suggestions for Fixing What Is Obviously Broken

Postby Isotopia » Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:59 pm

It goes without saying that the current system is broken.

LOTS of teeth gnashing and renting of the cloth.

All the have nots doing their best interpretation of the Dance of the Seven Veils.

There are plenty of topics for all of that. What seems to be limited here are people suggesting real, workable solutions to this train wreck.

Ideas. They're out there. I've been reading them. This topic is being generated so that as a place to consolidate your ideas, fixes, changes and corrections either for the current year or for those that come after 2012.

I'm betting that folks within the ORG are scouring the boards, Facebook, forums, letters, etc. for genuine workable fixes that maybe haven't been considered but might provide a spark for fixing (or improving) on what's obviously broken.

So yeah, toss your idea out here. Throw it into the ring.
Last edited by Isotopia on Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Positive Suggestions for Fixing What Is Obviously Broken

Postby Isotopia » Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:03 pm

Next year or hell, even this year have a system set up where upon notification of successfully purchasing a ticket the person customer is then required to provide names and contact info for each individual to actually receive the ticket.

This information is then entered into a database and when the tickets are mailed out in July the packet will also contain a sticker that has a QR code http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QR_code code matching the information of the person holding the ticket.

At the gate the person(s) presents both the ticket and the QR code which is confirmed by gate staff using a hand held device such as a smart phone that confirms the information.

I’m sure there are logistical bugs to be worked out but I think there’s still time to cobble something together that would go some way towards discouraging the scalper market.

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Re: Positive Suggestions for Fixing What Is Obviously Broken

Postby motskyroonmatick » Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:23 pm

Start the event one day early on Saturday.

Burn the Man on Friday.

End the event on Tuesday to promote smoother Exodus.

Negotiate with BLM to have a higher population cap based on more total exodus time and get those tickets on the market as fast as possible to alleviate demand and calm the situation.
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Re: Positive Suggestions for Fixing What Is Obviously Broken

Postby teal1960 » Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:29 pm

This is a petition I started, that is a suggestion for a solution, as solution that lies in this community.

http://www.change.org/petitions/the-bur ... an-tickets

With the introduction of the lottery system there is an inequality in the distribution of tickets. The scalpers have succeeded in procuring tickets, but theme camps are finding that in some cases only a handful of members have been awarded tickets. Examples are of 60 members only 5 have tickets and this is not unusual. Artists and their support staffs are also without tickets. This is devastating to the community and the spirit of the event. In this petition we are not asking for a redo of the current lottery, as that could have significant legal restrictions and implications, but rather move forward so that the remainder of the tickets available are distributed to the actual participants and that the mailing of the paper tickets is discontinued and replaced by a system that mirrors the early pass distribution.
• Future ticket allocations whether by a lottery or open purchase system will be tied to the purchaser’s credit card credentials and a valid legal ID such a driver's license, id card, or passport. Purchasers would be given 20 business days to assign their additional tickets to another valid ID, or allocate any of their tickets to the STEP program without a fee imposed.
• All tickets are connected to an ID and transferable only by STEP or a modified version of it. This will eliminate any price tampering and profit for speculators.
• After the 20 day grace period, participants will have their extra ticket(s) automatically reassigned via the STEP program. The initial purchaser will refunded all costs once the ticket is transferred.
• Participants needing a ticket can sign up via the STEP program.
• Tickets in the STEP program are sold to buyers first come first serve as the tickets become available.
• The buyer pays face value of the original ticket and any fees.
• Whether the buyer receives the ticket initially or through STEP, they will receive an email notification, or snail mail if email is not available for a $12 fee which will require a signature that they are a recipient of a ticket. In this document they will receive a confirmation number, the credit card used, the id information that will be required for entrance and a bar code. This is very closely mirrors the early entrance pass process.
• Tickets will no longer be mailed out. The above mentioned email or snail mail document will be your pass for the event. When you arrive at the gate you must produce this document and the ID affiliated with it. The gate folks could even have tablets and or scanners so that they could do the verification at one’s vehicle.
• When you arrive at the greeter’s station and receive your entrance package you will receive a facsimile of a ticket along with your sticker as a keepsake.
This system would end profits for scalpers and counterfeiters. As an extra bonus the postage costs will be reduced, the need for staff to stuff ticket envelopes would be minimized, and we will save some trees. All ticket purchases are electronic, recorded, overseen by the burning man organization and most importantly of all the tickets will be in the possession of the actual participants of this event so that we can continue to create this amazing community for years to come.
Thank you for reading this and please sign the petition and pass it on. Be the change you want to see in this community.
Peace and Dusty Hugs.
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Re: Positive Suggestions for Fixing What Is Obviously Broken

Postby CornMan » Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:31 pm

motskyroonmatick wrote:Start the event one day early on Saturday.

Burn the Man on Friday.

End the event on Tuesday to promote smoother Exodus.

Negotiate with BLM to have a higher population cap based on more total exodus time and get those tickets on the market as fast as possible to alleviate demand and calm the situation.


This would actually work.
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Re: Positive Suggestions for Fixing What Is Obviously Broken

Postby Simon of the Playa » Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:43 pm

breathe deep, the playa is the dust of your ancestors

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Re: Positive Suggestions for Fixing What Is Obviously Broken

Postby motskyroonmatick » Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:50 pm

Zeke Chaparral wrote:
motskyroonmatick wrote:Start the event one day early on Saturday.

Burn the Man on Friday.

End the event on Tuesday to promote smoother Exodus.

Negotiate with BLM to have a higher population cap based on more total exodus time and get those tickets on the market as fast as possible to alleviate demand and calm the situation.


This would actually work.


Thanks Pacoderm! I hope you get to pull off your camp again to the benefit of all endorphins.
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Re: Positive Suggestions for Fixing What Is Obviously Broken

Postby emmawonder » Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:07 pm

Gnashing of teeth? Yikes. What some of you probably don't realize is many burners go through just as much stress (if not more so) EVERY year just to put together the money to get a ticket. People who are dying over the lottery system might now better understand the torturous wait for the reply to a low income ticket application. Having money, being able to afford taking time off, being in good health, not having some asshole steal your ticket on the way there- in perspective the lottery is a hell of a lot more fair than all the other aspects of life that have to fall in just right to get to the burn. Lets be grateful that there are still tickets left and there are still ways to get there. Take a breath and be thankful life allowed you to get to the point that you can even register for the lottery. Being disappointed about not being able to go for any number of reasons is something many burners experience- this ain't gunna kill ya I promise!
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Re: Positive Suggestions for Fixing What Is Obviously Broken

Postby Isotopia » Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:12 pm

Thanks for your opinion but that *isn't* positive input insofar as providing input/ideas on how the problem might be corrected.

Please stay on topic.
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Re: Positive Suggestions for Fixing What Is Obviously Broken

Postby vargaso » Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:14 pm

teal1960 wrote:This is a petition I started, that is a suggestion for a solution, as solution that lies in this community.

http://www.change.org/petitions/the-bur ... an-tickets

With the introduction of the lottery system there is an inequality in the distribution of tickets. The scalpers have succeeded in procuring tickets, but theme camps are finding that in some cases only a handful of members have been awarded tickets. Examples are of 60 members only 5 have tickets and this is not unusual. Artists and their support staffs are also without tickets. This is devastating to the community and the spirit of the event. In this petition we are not asking for a redo of the current lottery, as that could have significant legal restrictions and implications, but rather move forward so that the remainder of the tickets available are distributed to the actual participants and that the mailing of the paper tickets is discontinued and replaced by a system that mirrors the early pass distribution.
• Future ticket allocations whether by a lottery or open purchase system will be tied to the purchaser’s credit card credentials and a valid legal ID such a driver's license, id card, or passport. Purchasers would be given 20 business days to assign their additional tickets to another valid ID, or allocate any of their tickets to the STEP program without a fee imposed.
• All tickets are connected to an ID and transferable only by STEP or a modified version of it. This will eliminate any price tampering and profit for speculators.
• After the 20 day grace period, participants will have their extra ticket(s) automatically reassigned via the STEP program. The initial purchaser will refunded all costs once the ticket is transferred.
• Participants needing a ticket can sign up via the STEP program.
• Tickets in the STEP program are sold to buyers first come first serve as the tickets become available.
• The buyer pays face value of the original ticket and any fees.
• Whether the buyer receives the ticket initially or through STEP, they will receive an email notification, or snail mail if email is not available for a $12 fee which will require a signature that they are a recipient of a ticket. In this document they will receive a confirmation number, the credit card used, the id information that will be required for entrance and a bar code. This is very closely mirrors the early entrance pass process.
• Tickets will no longer be mailed out. The above mentioned email or snail mail document will be your pass for the event. When you arrive at the gate you must produce this document and the ID affiliated with it. The gate folks could even have tablets and or scanners so that they could do the verification at one’s vehicle.
• When you arrive at the greeter’s station and receive your entrance package you will receive a facsimile of a ticket along with your sticker as a keepsake.
This system would end profits for scalpers and counterfeiters. As an extra bonus the postage costs will be reduced, the need for staff to stuff ticket envelopes would be minimized, and we will save some trees. All ticket purchases are electronic, recorded, overseen by the burning man organization and most importantly of all the tickets will be in the possession of the actual participants of this event so that we can continue to create this amazing community for years to come.
Thank you for reading this and please sign the petition and pass it on. Be the change you want to see in this community.
Peace and Dusty Hugs.


Similar to the Glastonbury process with a few tweaks. This is very reasonable and doable. Combing through the posts the past few days, there have been a few with really cogent analysis and suggestions, this is one of them. As others have said, the solutions can be found within "the community." IF the BMORG listens and does their homework (I'm confident they are), I think the ticketing process for 2013 could be a model for large, sold-out events. What needs to happen is jettisoning a few long-held yet no longer valid concerns (problems with tying tickets to IDs, for one), understanding that small compromises will result in big improvements and the acknowledgment that maybe we need some help from industry-leaders in the ticketing arena.
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Re: Positive Suggestions for Fixing What Is Obviously Broken

Postby Token » Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:16 pm

Who the fuck are you and what did you do with Iso?

Did they medicate The Badger?

Damn, now I've seen everything.
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Re: Positive Suggestions for Fixing What Is Obviously Broken

Postby BBadger » Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:20 pm

Isotopia, of all people, wanting positive solutions? And ideas?








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Re: Positive Suggestions for Fixing What Is Obviously Broken

Postby elKay » Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:55 pm

motskyroonmatick wrote:Start the event one day early on Saturday.

Burn the Man on Friday.

End the event on Tuesday to promote smoother Exodus.

Negotiate with BLM to have a higher population cap based on more total exodus time and get those tickets on the market as fast as possible to alleviate demand and calm the situation.
On top of this great suggestion, sell another 40,000 tickets for cheap enough to neuter any scalping operation.
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Re: Positive Suggestions for Fixing What Is Obviously Broken

Postby teal1960 » Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:24 pm

@Vargaso, Thanks I really appreciate your comments. I really just want this to work for all of us. My whole year is planned around this event, with several other camps.
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Re: Positive Suggestions for Fixing What Is Obviously Broken

Postby Isotopia » Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:28 pm

Isotopia, of all people, wanting positive solutions? And ideas?


Sorry darlings.

I had a fever and ran out of gin.

But I'm better now.

I think.

We'll see.
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Re: Positive Suggestions for Fixing What Is Obviously Broken

Postby Meyoukey » Sun Feb 05, 2012 1:23 am

What if you could only buy two tickets at a time but only one would have to have a name on it? Then the only people buying tickets would be burners.
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Re: Positive Suggestions for Fixing What Is Obviously Broken

Postby BBadger » Sun Feb 05, 2012 2:27 am

What if that were suggested every other thread?
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Re: Positive Suggestions for Fixing What Is Obviously Broken

Postby Token » Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:12 am

Solution:

Do a one-time deal with the BLM to expand the event to 100K printed tickets, with the understanding that there will be far fewer than 100K attendees. - Yes its a gamble but the tickets are revocable so there is a way to handle that with delayed credit card processing and whatnot.

Do a regular first-come, first-serve, one ticket per person, full tiered system, old-school, kill every ticket server ten times over three days, weekend sale.

Dump the extra 65K, or whatever the number is, tickets on the masses.

Watch the market demand disappear and scalpers panic.

Simple, devious, eeeeevil!

Now let me go get ISO another drink.
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Re: Positive Suggestions for Fixing What Is Obviously Broken

Postby BlackRockCityPimp » Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:29 am

Cancel the sale of remaining tickets. All large scale rave camps band together and announce that they arent going to burningman this year. Watch the RV ravers dump their tickets. HeeBeeGeeBee, Apok, Bdc, etc get needed tickets. We become an art festival and experiment in community again.

Honestly I see NOTHING broken. I see this as the best thing ever to happen. People that care about burningman will work shit out and make it home.
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Re: Positive Suggestions for Fixing What Is Obviously Broken

Postby tamarakay » Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:40 am

OK, so now I am kinda scared. Next thing we know CSS will be offering Simon a damn peace pipe.
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Re: Positive Suggestions for Fixing What Is Obviously Broken

Postby rchapin » Sun Feb 05, 2012 2:20 pm

You can't really call back tickets now. You have to run damage control, and fast.

Sure, Burning Man will still happen one way or another, but the situation has completely fucked the Karma for those who call Burning Man their home.

The biggest problem right now is theme camps. Folks are pissed off and unable to start fundraising or building unless key people in their camp have a ticket.

My solution is this:

edit: solution deleted for crossposting, it's on other threads. Eric- Mod
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Re: Positive Suggestions for Fixing What Is Obviously Broken

Postby Token » Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:01 pm

rchapin wrote:The biggest problem right now is theme camps. Folks are pissed off and unable to start fundraising or building unless key people in their camp have a ticket.


Oh, your "swinging dick in strange" theme camp is more important than my "glistening diva's vagina" sculpture in the deep playa?

Fuck yer day, amateur!

Now go make ISO another fucking drink!
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Re: Positive Suggestions for Fixing What Is Obviously Broken

Postby Token » Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:03 pm

BlackRockCityPimp wrote:Cancel the sale of remaining tickets. All large scale rave camps band together and announce that they arent going to burningman this year. Watch the RV ravers dump their tickets. HeeBeeGeeBee, Apok, Bdc, etc get needed tickets. We become an art festival and experiment in community again.

Honestly I see NOTHING broken. I see this as the best thing ever to happen. People that care about burningman will work shit out and make it home.


If that were to happen, I'd bring a bank of old clothes dryers and load them up with steel-toed boots, run em 24/8.

Werd to the mothra!
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Re: Positive Suggestions for Fixing What Is Obviously Broken

Postby zorro sings » Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:42 pm

BBadger wrote:What if that were suggested every other thread?


We must salute BBadger on his courage to at least engage Isotopia. The usual critics of this sort of thread,Lemur,The CO,Graidawg etc know not to fuck with this post.
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Re: Positive Suggestions for Fixing What Is Obviously Broken

Postby lemur » Sun Feb 05, 2012 5:08 pm

zorro sings wrote:
BBadger wrote:What if that were suggested every other thread?


We must salute BBadger on his courage to at least engage Isotopia. The usual critics of this sort of thread,Lemur,The CO,Graidawg etc know not to fuck with this post.


this sort of thread? no.. i think this one is slightly different.. isotopia hasnt started it off with baseless assumptions about 'missing tickets' or scalpers or any such BS.. besides, it is a 'positive suggestions' thread..

not really thinking that suggestions are even needed.. why would i poke at people here? (like you seem to be trying for!)

we will have plenty of time for feedback after burning man 2012 when the LLC opens the 'FEEDBACK LOOP' (they REALLY listen to that.. remember when they made the city HUGE then shrunk it down when everyone didnt like it?!!).., but that feedback will only be of any real value after all of the ticket programs happen, after the open sale, low income program and STEP have taken place.. after we see that burning man had another kick ass year...until that point trying to find solutions or suggestions for next year is putting the cart before the horse.. trying to do stuff with the results before the experiment has finished..

besides, they already pay someone to come up with solutions.. and i aint that person
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Re: Positive Suggestions for Fixing What Is Obviously Broken

Postby Roberto Dobbisano » Sun Feb 05, 2012 5:11 pm

think happy thoughts.
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Re: Positive Suggestions for Fixing What Is Obviously Broken

Postby Simon of the Playa » Sun Feb 05, 2012 5:18 pm

breathe deep, the playa is the dust of your ancestors

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Re: Positive Suggestions for Fixing What Is Obviously Broken

Postby Token » Sun Feb 05, 2012 5:22 pm

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Re: Positive Suggestions for Fixing What Is Obviously Broken

Postby Simon of the Playa » Sun Feb 05, 2012 5:33 pm

please put on your happy fucking converse purple hi-tops.
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Re: Positive Suggestions for Fixing What Is Obviously Broken

Postby Token » Sun Feb 05, 2012 5:45 pm

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