Ticket fiasco reaction from the LLC

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Ticket fiasco reaction from the LLC

Postby juanita » Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:08 pm

I just stumbled upon this article from the San Francisco Bay Guardian Online which has quotes from Marian Goodell in it...


LLC board member Marian Goodell just returned my call and said the organization leaders huddled up today to work on solutions to problems raised by the ticket shortfalls. "We're genuinely really putting our heads together today. We're listening, we really are," she said. "It's very real for us, I get it."

She recognizes that it's a big problem for established theme camps and art collectives having tickets for only about a third of their members, a figure that she also confirmed. "It's clear that the theme camps and art projects are a significant part of the community, and this situation is causing problems for them," she said. "That's the part that will hurt us if we don't take another look at this."


More in the article here: http://www.sfbg.com/pixel_vision/2012/0 ... ain-future
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Re: Ticket fiasco reaction from the LLC

Postby tattoogoddess » Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:12 pm

I really hope this is true. That would be REALLY awesome if they are listening and trying to figure out a way to make this work.

I like this part though

"But Goodell said it was too late to re-do this week's lottery -- "not possible," she said -- even though the physical tickets won't be mailed out until June. She said the LLC has divided up information-gathering tasks now and will regroup soon to decide how to proceed, with options including tweaks to the rules for the March 28 ticket sale or working with the BLM to bump up the population cap, an option that would raise other problems."

PLEASEEEEE Environmental Impact Statement come out 150% positive so we can up the cap on the land!! I want my friends to go :(
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Re: Ticket fiasco reaction from the LLC

Postby playa hanjin » Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:26 pm

tattoogoddess wrote:PLEASEEEEE Environmental Impact Statement come out 150% positive so we can up the cap on the land!! I want my friends to go :(


If the event is going to get any bigger, we need a bigger road. Does the BMORG (or do we) want to fund that, directly or indirectly?
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Re: Ticket fiasco reaction from the LLC

Postby JStep » Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:28 pm

Funny, I just posted this like 15 minutes ago on another thread.

Yeah. Here's to high hopes!!
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Re: Ticket fiasco reaction from the LLC

Postby tattoogoddess » Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:40 pm

playa hanjin wrote:
tattoogoddess wrote:PLEASEEEEE Environmental Impact Statement come out 150% positive so we can up the cap on the land!! I want my friends to go :(


If the event is going to get any bigger, we need a bigger road. Does the BMORG (or do we) want to fund that, directly or indirectly?



maybe on the other 14k tickets will only be allowed to to come the day after it starts to cut down on road traffic. Or maybe try to work something out with the community about leaving. Like some people volunteer to leave at X time and others at X time. You know like how we used to do it for school lunch so there was not congestion in the hallway.

Self but group reliance in a way.
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Re: Ticket fiasco reaction from the LLC

Postby playa hanjin » Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:49 pm

Yeah, I'd go for some sort of staggering. It's an idea at least.

Still:

Goodell emphasized that the burner ethos calls for people to only sell tickets for face value – which is $240-390 for the 40,000 tickets going out next week – and she said she believes there will be enough tickets to satisfy demand if people don't panic and feed the scalpers' market. Those who don't follow that advice could also end up with counterfeit tickets, whereas the LLC will verify tickets it swaps.


SO, their plan involves relying on people's self-discipline to only sell tickets at face value, when a potential 600% return on investment is to be had?

In a down economy?

Maybe my cynicism is showing, but I think this is a bad plan.

Also, this, the height of humility:

Dozens of people have independently asked why, after the event sold out last year and scalpers made a killing, the LLC didn't require each ticket to be registered to an individual and transferred only through a regulated aftermarket system, which would prevent gouging by scalpers. I've asked organizers that same question each of the last two years, and I was only told that it seemed like too much trouble and that things would work out.


Oh, BMORG, you don't know what "too much trouble" looks like. You might just get to see it this year.
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Re: Ticket fiasco reaction from the LLC

Postby Elliot » Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:25 am

The population cap bottleneck is exodus. Raise the population cap by giving us two or more days for exodus. Just start the event earlier.
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Re: Ticket fiasco reaction from the LLC

Postby CornMan » Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:27 am

Soft open and close. I thought of that. I guess it's unworkable for some reason.
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Re: Ticket fiasco reaction from the LLC

Postby gibson_ » Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:28 am

I love that they're relying on some sort of "burner ethos" to ensure that people will sell their extra tickets at face value...

That same "burner ethos" is what caused these people to try and get more tickets than they needed to begin with. I mean...I wish that in reality people were all good, and all always looking out for their neighbor's best interest...but if that were the case, wouldn't everybody have only registered for the tickets they needed? Wouldn't there _be_ no surplus?
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Re: Ticket fiasco reaction from the LLC

Postby RevDusty » Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:39 am

Not at all too late to make a positive change to this mess.

[u][b]Names can still be put on tickets[/b][/u]. Ask those that won the lottery for the names, now. Either that, or it goes back into the STEP.

A simple ID and ticket check at the gate won't overly slow down entry (hell, I've waited 4+ hours on the playa for dust and rain to subside). Overflow onto 447 is taken care of by using excess playa space.

This doesn't directly address the issue of camps/art groups not reaching critical mass, but it helps.

If it was a fair lottery draw (open source the software?), then I'm glad for all the virgins at the burn...new blood is always necessary!

But something does seem really wrong with how this all turned out...
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Re: Ticket fiasco reaction from the LLC

Postby CornMan » Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:54 am

Get all the names for each ticket and check the tickets on every 10th vehicle. That's roughly how they do it when you enter Mexico. When you're exiting the visa offices, you press a button like you press when you enter a parking garage. If the light goes green (pase), you're free to go. If it goes red (alto), the border officials check out your vehicle a bit. Have instructions a short distance from the gate stating to get your identification ready.
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Re: Ticket fiasco reaction from the LLC

Postby monsta2ownzu » Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:01 am

RevDusty wrote:Not at all too late to make a positive change to this mess.

Names can still be put on tickets. Ask those that won the lottery for the names, now. Either that, or it goes back into the STEP.

A simple ID and ticket check at the gate won't overly slow down entry (hell, I've waited 4+ hours on the playa for dust and rain to subside). Overflow onto 447 is taken care of by using excess playa space.



I LOVE this.
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Re: Ticket fiasco reaction from the LLC

Postby lessrules » Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:17 am

monsta2ownzu wrote:
RevDusty wrote:Not at all too late to make a positive change to this mess.

Names can still be put on tickets. Ask those that won the lottery for the names, now. Either that, or it goes back into the STEP.

A simple ID and ticket check at the gate won't overly slow down entry (hell, I've waited 4+ hours on the playa for dust and rain to subside). Overflow onto 447 is taken care of by using excess playa space.



I LOVE this.

I don't love this. Tickets should be free-roaming and transferrable.
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Re: Ticket fiasco reaction from the LLC

Postby Sola Gangsta » Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:26 am

It looks like the beginning of the end for the event. Theme camps all around seem to have a major shortage of tickets and won't have enough people to run the camps and some are contemplating shutting down for this year. What you have left are spectators willing to fork out $1500 on eBay to see what looks like dirt in the middle of nowhere.

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Re: Ticket fiasco reaction from the LLC

Postby theCryptofishist » Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:28 am

tattoogoddess wrote:PLEASEEEEE Environmental Impact Statement come out 150% positive so we can up the cap on the land!! I want my friends to go :(

It's an Environmental Assessment, and the idea of calling these documents "150% positive" is very odd.
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Re: Ticket fiasco reaction from the LLC

Postby Mitch » Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:33 am

theCryptofishist wrote:It's an Environmental Assessment, and the idea of calling these documents "150% positive" is very odd.



Means we leave it BETTER than it was. You know, like putting amoniated fat in beef patties.
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Re: Ticket fiasco reaction from the LLC

Postby alt12 » Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:43 am

Zeke Chaparral wrote:Soft open and close. I thought of that. I guess it's unworkable for some reason.


well we already have a "soft open." There were like 18,000 or so early arrival passes...
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Re: Ticket fiasco reaction from the LLC

Postby RevDusty » Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:52 am

[quote="lessrules"][quote="monsta2ownzu"][quote="RevDusty"]Not at all too late to make a positive change to this mess.

[u][b]Names can still be put on tickets[/b][/u]. Ask those that won the lottery for the names, now. Either that, or it goes back into the STEP.

A simple ID and ticket check at the gate won't overly slow down entry (hell, I've waited 4+ hours on the playa for dust and rain to subside). Overflow onto 447 is taken care of by using excess playa space.
[/quote]


I LOVE this.[/quote]
I don't love this. Tickets should be free-roaming and transferrable.[/quote]

But tickets would still be free roaming and transferable, just without a scalping charge and for those that will actually attend. There are some additional work-arounds that would need to be set up and can be addressed to minimize gaming the system, but it's all do-able.
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Re: Ticket fiasco reaction from the LLC

Postby RevDusty » Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:54 am

and apologies for the embedded code...hopefully I've fixed that now.
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Re: Ticket fiasco reaction from the LLC

Postby theCryptofishist » Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:17 pm

Mitch wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:It's an Environmental Assessment, and the idea of calling these documents "150% positive" is very odd.



Means we leave it BETTER than it was. You know, like putting amoniated fat in beef patties.

That's the clean up/clean up plan. I was talking about the EA.
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Re: Ticket fiasco reaction from the LLC

Postby hotmess » Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:58 pm

Elliot wrote:The population cap bottleneck is exodus. Raise the population cap by giving us two or more days for exodus. Just start the event earlier.


Yes yes yes. Raise the population, put out an extra 20,000 tickets on the March sale, and have the event run a few days longer.
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Re: Ticket fiasco reaction from the LLC

Postby 48_love » Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:07 pm

gibson_ wrote:I love that they're relying on some sort of "burner ethos" to ensure that people will sell their extra tickets at face value...


Sheesh, it seems like long odds to even have a shared hallucination anymore.
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Re: Ticket fiasco reaction from the LLC

Postby lessrules » Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:39 pm

RevDusty wrote:
lessrules wrote:I don't love this. Tickets should be free-roaming and transferrable.


But tickets would still be free roaming and transferable, just without a scalping charge and for those that will actually attend. There are some additional work-arounds that would need to be set up and can be addressed to minimize gaming the system, but it's all do-able.

But if my buddy buys his ticket and and at the last minute he has a family emergency or an asshole boss, then I want him to be able to hand off his ticket, and I can put a cardboard sign in the back of my hatchback that says:
)'( 1 xtra ticket )'(

And if I'm pulling in to gas up at Joe's Gas Bar, and as I pull in I see a Mitsubishi Delica with white shoepolish on the windows that says:
burnr needz a tickit PLZ PLZ PLZ
Then I want to jump out, and collect the cash for buddy back home, and hand over the ticket while we small talk about camping with a bunch of cool people at Jupiter and 4:20 and then go on about our merry ways....

That's the freedom we deserve. No ticket registration, No ID check at the gate. No more rules.
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Re: Ticket fiasco reaction from the LLC

Postby Mofessor » Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:02 pm

lessrules wrote:
RevDusty wrote:
lessrules wrote:I don't love this. Tickets should be free-roaming and transferrable.


But tickets would still be free roaming and transferable, just without a scalping charge and for those that will actually attend. There are some additional work-arounds that would need to be set up and can be addressed to minimize gaming the system, but it's all do-able.

But if my buddy buys his ticket and and at the last minute he has a family emergency or an asshole boss, then I want him to be able to hand off his ticket, and I can put a cardboard sign in the back of my hatchback that says:
)'( 1 xtra ticket )'(

And if I'm pulling in to gas up at Joe's Gas Bar, and as I pull in I see a Mitsubishi Delica with white shoepolish on the windows that says:
burnr needz a tickit PLZ PLZ PLZ
Then I want to jump out, and collect the cash for buddy back home, and hand over the ticket while we small talk about camping with a bunch of cool people at Jupiter and 4:20 and then go on about our merry ways....

That's the freedom we deserve. No ticket registration, No ID check at the gate. No more rules.


I understand this desire, but there are other areas of more concern (like a ticketing process that doesn't destroy the community). Basically, your desire to gift tickets (which people could still do, they'd just have to figure out who they were going to gift to ahead of time) doesn't trump the community's needs for a better process.
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Re: Ticket fiasco reaction from the LLC

Postby jkisha » Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:38 pm

gibson_ wrote:I love that they're relying on some sort of "burner ethos" to ensure that people will sell their extra tickets at face value...

That same "burner ethos" is what caused these people to try and get more tickets than they needed to begin with. I mean...I wish that in reality people were all good, and all always looking out for their neighbor's best interest...but if that were the case, wouldn't everybody have only registered for the tickets they needed? Wouldn't there _be_ no surplus?

You got that right.
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Re: Ticket fiasco reaction from the LLC

Postby tattoogoddess » Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:49 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:
tattoogoddess wrote:PLEASEEEEE Environmental Impact Statement come out 150% positive so we can up the cap on the land!! I want my friends to go :(

It's an Environmental Assessment, and the idea of calling these documents "150% positive" is very odd.



Ok was just stating what was wrote.

150% positive in the means of we left it sooooo much better then before with no impact. (hoping for what really is not possible)
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Re: Ticket fiasco reaction from the LLC

Postby Igneouss » Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:55 am

lessrules wrote:
monsta2ownzu wrote:
RevDusty wrote:Not at all too late to make a positive change to this mess.

Names can still be put on tickets. Ask those that won the lottery for the names, now. Either that, or it goes back into the STEP.

A simple ID and ticket check at the gate won't overly slow down entry (hell, I've waited 4+ hours on the playa for dust and rain to subside). Overflow onto 447 is taken care of by using excess playa space.



I LOVE this.

I don't love this. Tickets should be free-roaming and transferrable.


Les, the idea is to have a name associated with every ticket digitally. The org (and only the org) would be able to facilitate sale and transfer. Scalpers eliminated completely. Tickets could roam as you whish.
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Re: Ticket fiasco reaction from the LLC

Postby Cheyenne » Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:14 am

Yep, putting names on tickets has not been an issue for many other event promoters - the LLC would just have to employ more people to process the change of name on the massive number of tickets when peeps have last minute emergencies.... its not as if they are short of money to employ them, is it?????
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Re: Ticket fiasco reaction from the LLC

Postby CapnJoe » Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:51 pm

Don't have to worry about putting the name on my ticket, I don't have one!!!!
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Re: Ticket fiasco reaction from the LLC

Postby theCryptofishist » Sat Feb 04, 2012 7:56 pm

tattoogoddess wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:
tattoogoddess wrote:PLEASEEEEE Environmental Impact Statement come out 150% positive so we can up the cap on the land!! I want my friends to go :(

It's an Environmental Assessment, and the idea of calling these documents "150% positive" is very odd.



Ok was just stating what was wrote.

150% positive in the means of we left it sooooo much better then before with no impact. (hoping for what really is not possible)

So what you actually want is the clean up inspection to pass. We did pass October's, I think there's another in last spring, early summer.

I really only skimmed a couple of sections of the stipulations and of the previous permit--under the assumption that it is the roads that are the sticking point. That was sections 1 and 16 in the permit stipulations, and barely a glance at the EA. I'm not going ot print it out, and I"m not going to squit at it on the screen, but it will probably serve as a template for the next one, with difficult details ironed out between the llc and BLM.
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