How will the lottery affect our community contributions?

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How will the lottery affect our community contributions?

Postby domitron » Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:15 pm

I spent quite a bit of time in the forums last night, One repeating theme was that many very large camps (50+) people had less than 20% awarding of tickets. That includes the numerous key contributors that have placement on the Esplanade.

My fear isn't for my own ticket. I think without a doubt I can get two for me and my girlfriend by August, but the effect of not knowing who will be able to attend until pretty late in the game is really going to disrupt the community as a whole. For example a lot of people have expressed concerns about putting down huge sums of time and/or money for art projects, art cars, various public services, etc. given they well might not know who is attending for months yet.

Just to drive this home a bit, think about if you were part of a large camp on the Esplanade that usually serves drinks. The expense of transport and, in general, of providing that service the entire week could easily run 10 to 20K. How motivated are you, as a camp, to put up fundraisers, buy new hardware, and make the kind of immediate plans you must if most of your camp mates have no guarantee of attending? If it were me heading one of those camps, I'd probably just call it off this year. And I am sure there will be a lot of stuff called off, baring some immediate intervention or change of plans directed by the BMORG.

If I were the BMORG, I'd play my last card, the 10K tickets remaining, to try to help the situation. One thing they could do is give the larger theme camps priority in purchasing them. This way the really heavy community contributors could know they'll all get out there this year soon. Now that will no doubt piss off a lot of Burners who are not members of those larger theme camps, but looking at the forums I don't think they'll be any more pissed than they are now. And besides what kind of event will Burning Man be this year without the key contributors?
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Re: How will the lottery affect our community contributions?

Postby vargaso » Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:22 pm

domitron wrote: And besides what kind of event will Burning Man be this year without the key contributors?


I can't wait to find out. And no, I don't have a ticket yet.
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Re: How will the lottery affect our community contributions?

Postby Lassen Forge » Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:25 pm

Then the noobs will contribute. Easy. Those who have the guts to come out there with theme camps shortstaffed (no guts, no glory!) will bring in burgins. Other burgins will build camps. And the man will still burn.
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Re: How will the lottery affect our community contributions?

Postby Timezone LaFontaine » Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:27 pm

I remember having a conversation with a first-timer one year, several days into the event. He was hanging with a whole group of people who were focused on making the rounds to all the bars every night. As they were getting ready to head out and drink for another night, he said something to the effect that he could go out bar-hopping in any city. He was realizing in this utterly bizarre city full of unique opportunities for unusual experiences that it is possible to get into a rut. Now don't get me wrong, I do enjoy having a few drinks... but I don't think what's amazing about BRC hinges on free booze.
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Re: How will the lottery affect our community contributions?

Postby remi » Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:29 pm

Bay Bridge Sue wrote:Then the noobs will contribute. Easy. Those who have the guts to come out there with theme camps shortstaffed (no guts, no glory!) will bring in burgins. Other burgins will build camps. And the man will still burn.


There should be a Burgin recruiting page thread.. where burging give a short paragraph about themselves and camps come in and see if any of them fit the bill.
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Re: How will the lottery affect our community contributions?

Postby domitron » Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:38 pm

When I say key contributors, I am not just talking about free booze. In fact maybe I shouldn't have used a bar as an example because I really don't think booze scarcity will ever be a big issue at Burning Man. What I'm more worried about is that we won't see the art cars, the excellent artwork, etc. as much as years past just because many people don't know if they'll be attending or not until late. I don't see how that can be a good thing for anyone.

If the BMORG did something now, they could help this situation, but if they are just going to keep down the path that has gotten us in this mess, then it'll just get worse I think.
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Re: How will the lottery affect our community contributions?

Postby AntiM » Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:52 pm

"Key contributers" .... will be other people doing other things. Will it be the same? No. Will it be better or worse? Dunno. Less art? Probably, sad, but not a deal breaker. Art on a smaller scale? Sure, why not? Fewer art cars? Okay, doesn't break my heart, yours maybe, but not mine. Smaller sound camps with less well known DJs? Probably, but what an opportunity for them. Will booze be served in a carport with a board for a bar? Sure.

The Man will burn. Fire will be spun. People will dance and party. I get to hang out with friends, old and new. There will be art. All good. Also, all of that can and will happen at Regionals, Orphan Burns, Camp Envy Family Reunions, Juplaya, and on and on.

Will ticketing be better next year? I hope so, and trust this is a valuable lesson learned for all parties concerned.

Is this the End of the World as We Know It? Yeah, maybe. Is it The End of The World? Nope.
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Re: How will the lottery affect our community contributions?

Postby igor47 » Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:04 pm

AntiM wrote:Is this the End of the World as We Know It? Yeah, maybe. Is it The End of The World? Nope.


gah. everyone knows the world is not literally ending. even "burning man" is not ending, as evidenced by the extremely healthy ticket sales.

everyone bitching and moaning on this board are doing so because we love burning man. we care for this thing we've poured our hearts and souls into. we'd like to preserve it because it is *good*. we look at the changes that are happening and we see this good thing we care about disappearing.

will it be a different good thing? maybe? will we and others find it as awesome? maybe. but we DON'T HAVE TO end the world as we know it, if we decide not to. we can look at what we have and then find ways to preserve what we like.

i, for one, like the big-scale art that can only be accomplished by large groups of people working together; i've enjoyed the over-the-top art cars; i've enjoyed having ALL of my friends from every one of my social circles in one place. all of these things will come to an end if groups of people cannot reliably come to the burn together. none of these things can happen anywhere else -- if the burn splinters, by definition there won't be the ONE event everyone has to go to.

i'm saddened by these changes and, from what i've seen, the community is too. we, the people who make up this community, have looked at the problem and have suggested several changes that BMorg could make that would preserve this good thing we love. the lottery was not one of them -- it only hastens the demise.

we were ignored, so i guess BMorg doesn't care.
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Re: How will the lottery affect our community contributions?

Postby graidawg » Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:09 pm

AntiM wrote:"Key contributers" .... will be other people doing other things. Will it be the same? No. Will it be better or worse? Dunno. Less art? Probably, sad, but not a deal breaker. Art on a smaller scale? Sure, why not? Fewer art cars? Okay, doesn't break my heart, yours maybe, but not mine. Smaller sound camps with less well known DJs? Probably, but what an opportunity for them. Will booze be served in a carport with a board for a bar? Sure.

The Man will burn. Fire will be spun. People will dance and party. I get to hang out with friends, old and new. There will be art. All good. Also, all of that can and will happen at Regionals, Orphan Burns, Camp Envy Family Reunions, Juplaya, and on and on.

Will ticketing be better next year? I hope so, and trust this is a valuable lesson learned for all parties concerned.

Is this the End of the World as We Know It? Yeah, maybe. Is it The End of The World? Nope.


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Re: How will the lottery affect our community contributions?

Postby Savannah » Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:47 pm

remi wrote:
Bay Bridge Sue wrote:Then the noobs will contribute. Easy. Those who have the guts to come out there with theme camps shortstaffed (no guts, no glory!) will bring in burgins. Other burgins will build camps. And the man will still burn.


There should be a Burgin recruiting page thread.. where burging give a short paragraph about themselves and camps come in and see if any of them fit the bill.


The Theme Camps link on the main site and the 2012 Theme Camps forum here will have activity in a few months . . . virgins usually flock to them, but yeah . . . if the camps have trouble filling their desired numbers, we might see a switch. Or smaller camps.
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Re: How will the lottery affect our community contributions?

Postby Lord Of Ruin » Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:02 pm

Not that they're more important in any way, but think about the infrastructure departments. You know 90+% of them are volunteers, right?

DPW (some are vols), Rangers, Gate Perimeter & Exodus, Lamplighters, ESD (some parts are vols), Airport, Greeters, Arctica, etc, etc.

Sure, the event can happy without many of them. But what kind of event will that be? Most evolved over time out of the needs of the community.

Wrestling with this reality now.

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Re: How will the lottery affect our community contributions?

Postby CornMan » Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:03 pm

Maybe BMORG will eventually need to compensate for the reduced camp attractions by booking headlining music acts. The cost for that would be considerable, so they might need to shorten the event to a 3 day weekend. If the camp bars are reduced too much, maybe the org can hire a concessionaire to have sole access to distributing refreshments. The search of vehicles could include contraband beer and booze as well as stowaway passengers.
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Re: How will the lottery affect our community contributions?

Postby AntiM » Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:07 pm

Lord Of Ruin wrote:Not that they're more important in any way, but think about the infrastructure departments. You know 90+% of them are volunteers, right?

DPW (some are vols), Rangers, Gate Perimeter & Exodus, Lamplighters, ESD (some parts are vols), Airport, Greeters, Arctica, etc, etc.

Sure, the event can happy without many of them. But what kind of event will that be? Most evolved over time out of the needs of the community.

Wrestling with this reality now.

LoR


I've been thinking of them, and of how we might be able to volunteer this year. Maybe Exodus. Maybe MyLarry would be suited to Gate. No decision as yet, but it is on the agenda.
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Re: How will the lottery affect our community contributions?

Postby socks » Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:06 pm

Antim if you believe what you say then gift your tickets
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Re: How will the lottery affect our community contributions?

Postby AntiM » Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:10 pm

socks wrote:Antim if you believe what you say then gift your tickets


Bite me. One is going to be a gift, I just don't know who will need it most until the open sale and low income clears. If I get my hands on other tickets, they'll be gifts too. I won't make a penny, and I won't recoup the ticket price. So bite me twice, dear.
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Re: How will the lottery affect our community contributions?

Postby firepoet » Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:44 pm

Large theme camps have there place but are a long way from an essential ingredient to BRC. I some time camp alone, have had art on the playa 12 of 14 years. So my ticket priority would be non-existent? I would like to think that creativity and art are worth more than a week of free booze. I don't believe size of a camp has any direct correlation with contribution. May not be true, but it has felt as if over the last 10 years the proliferation of theme camps has had more to do with getting a location than making contribution. I also feel the great theme camps make unique and amazing contributions ( that I will never be capable of) but they are the ones grounded in core BRC principles.
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Re: How will the lottery affect our community contributions?

Postby lemur » Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:42 am

Lord Of Ruin wrote:Not that they're more important in any way, but think about the infrastructure departments. You know 90+% of them are volunteers, right?

DPW (some are vols), Rangers, Gate Perimeter & Exodus, Lamplighters, ESD (some parts are vols), Airport, Greeters, Arctica, etc, etc.

Sure, the event can happy without many of them. But what kind of event will that be? Most evolved over time out of the needs of the community.

Wrestling with this reality now.

LoR



The volunteers who camp in Lamplighters Vilage are not guaranteed a ticket and do not receive one because they camp there. (edit: not that it was directly implied that they were.. but yes these volunteer depts are surely concerned about filling their ranks right now)

Q. If I promise to work at Lamplighters, can I get a free ticket?

A. Nope. But what you'll get in return will far exceed your expectations.

http://www.burningman.com/participate/l ... ml#promise



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Re: How will the lottery affect our community contributions?

Postby 18xbrewer » Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:48 am

For truth!!! I mean I hate the term Fair being thrown around like it's fucking water in the ocean. It's fair to give preferance to those who have built and give back to burning man. That way the ideal way to get a ticket isn't to buy a crap load and fill the place with virgin burners who don't go ever. But to make virgins want to get involved so they can get on a themed camps list and get a ticket to go! That would make more people want to help rather than mooch. Isn't that the point?!!!!!! :roll:
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Re: How will the lottery affect our community contributions?

Postby Ed Phunk » Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:35 am

I can tell you that Disorient (2:00 and Esp last year) saw similar results to what everyone else had.. about 25-30%. But we're charging ahead. Hey, may the camp be less loud, less flashy, as big? Maybe not, but we'll figure it out. I think it comes down to these camps scaling back their plans if need be, or actively searching for virgins to take a bigger role right away. i'm going, but will not pay a scalper. There's going to be some who will, but lets show these idiots until BMORG gets their head on straight in 2013 that you just wasted your money :)
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