Is 2012 the end of the world for Burning Man?

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.

Is 2012 the end of the world for Burning Man?

Postby 1durphul » Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:18 pm

So not a single person in my camp got tickets (seriously). And probably 1/2 to 2/3's of other (larger) camps I'm on the mailings lists for did not get tickets either. While there are the same number of tickets out there, at this point in the year most campmates seem disinterested in putting any more effort into Burning Man 2012 without proof of a pay off for that effort. And so they are talking about alternate vacation plans (which honestly sound nice, Thailand, Europe, Puerto Vallarta).

While some camps will just lose wo/man power, other camps will lose the one or two people who actually make the camp happen. For certain small theme camps where only 2 or 3 people out of 10 got tickets they might consider it a lost cause and throw in the towel. I imagine that the result of this lottery is a year with less art, fewer theme camps, and a lot more orphaned people without theme camps to call home. So could this be the year that kills Burning Man? Wild speculation sought. Outrageous imaginings encouraged. Predictions made of nothing desired! Short sighted thinking praised!
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Re: Is 2012 the end of the world for Burning Man?

Postby jkisha » Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:46 pm

1durphul wrote:So not a single person in my camp got tickets (seriously). And probably 1/2 to 2/3's of other (larger) camps I'm on the mailings lists for did not get tickets either. While there are the same number of tickets out there, at this point in the year most campmates seem disinterested in putting any more effort into Burning Man 2012 without proof of a pay off for that effort. And so they are talking about alternate vacation plans (which honestly sound nice, Thailand, Europe, Puerto Vallarta).

While some camps will just lose wo/man power, other camps will lose the one or two people who actually make the camp happen. For certain small theme camps where only 2 or 3 people out of 10 got tickets they might consider it a lost cause and throw in the towel. I imagine that the result of this lottery is a year with less art, fewer theme camps, and a lot more orphaned people without theme camps to call home. So could this be the year that kills Burning Man? Wild speculation sought. Outrageous imaginings encouraged. Predictions made of nothing desired! Short sighted thinking praised!

LOL 4 out of 45 in our camp got tickets. Plus we have several members that will get free tickets for volunteering.
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Re: Is 2012 the end of the world for Burning Man?

Postby 1durphul » Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:56 pm

jkisha wrote:
1durphul wrote:So not a single person in my camp got tickets (seriously). And probably 1/2 to 2/3's of other (larger) camps I'm on the mailings lists for did not get tickets either. While there are the same number of tickets out there, at this point in the year most campmates seem disinterested in putting any more effort into Burning Man 2012 without proof of a pay off for that effort. And so they are talking about alternate vacation plans (which honestly sound nice, Thailand, Europe, Puerto Vallarta).

While some camps will just lose wo/man power, other camps will lose the one or two people who actually make the camp happen. For certain small theme camps where only 2 or 3 people out of 10 got tickets they might consider it a lost cause and throw in the towel. I imagine that the result of this lottery is a year with less art, fewer theme camps, and a lot more orphaned people without theme camps to call home. So could this be the year that kills Burning Man? Wild speculation sought. Outrageous imaginings encouraged. Predictions made of nothing desired! Short sighted thinking praised!

LOL 4 out of 45 in our camp got tickets. Plus we have several members that will get free tickets for volunteering.


Was that a typo? 4 out of 45?! Really??!! I don't know any camp that broke 20% to be completely honest.
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Re: Is 2012 the end of the world for Burning Man?

Postby ZaphodBurner » Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:12 am

ZERO of 20 people I camp with got tickets.

3 of the 4 virgin burners we know got tickets, and the 4th hasn't reported yet.

I want the BMORG to know that this is thoroughly fucked up. This is bad. Between this bullshit and "Fertility 2.0" (what the fuck is this, a George Lucas film? Digitally add some fire-dancers and TIE Fighters? Is Burning Man going to be re-released in 3D?) it's starting to feel like somebody is trying to show us a dead pet and is trying to convince us that it's only sleeping.

So far, in fact, Burning Man 2012 feels like that cruise ship, where the officers are all yelling at everybody not to panic and to go back to their rooms, that it was just an electrical problem, don't worry about the fact that nobody can find the captain.
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Re: Is 2012 the end of the world for Burning Man?

Postby AntiM » Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:01 am

Well, this should be interesting.
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Re: Is 2012 the end of the world for Burning Man?

Postby 1durphul » Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:00 pm

ZaphodBurner wrote:ZERO of 20 people I camp with got tickets.

3 of the 4 virgin burners we know got tickets, and the 4th hasn't reported yet.

I want the BMORG to know that this is thoroughly fucked up. This is bad. Between this bullshit and "Fertility 2.0" (what the fuck is this, a George Lucas film? Digitally add some fire-dancers and TIE Fighters? Is Burning Man going to be re-released in 3D?) it's starting to feel like somebody is trying to show us a dead pet and is trying to convince us that it's only sleeping.

So far, in fact, Burning Man 2012 feels like that cruise ship, where the officers are all yelling at everybody not to panic and to go back to their rooms, that it was just an electrical problem, don't worry about the fact that nobody can find the captain.


Yeah, our camp of 10 has zero tickets, and none of us feel particularly inclined to spend months trying to wade through STEP, or the second sale, or craiglist for honest face-value tickets. (None of us are willing to go the scalper route.) The pity of course is that we'd already started work on our camp, and one of our campmates had gone the extra mile and done a lot of costuming. But since the rest of the camp doesn't want to go, he's probably not going either.

And honestly, despite the result of this year's ticket sale, I feel like this lottery is a better system. Why? Because it worked just fine. Sure the tickets may not have been allocated properly, but that is something that can be fixed through anti-scalpers systems like REQUIRING photo identification, AND requiring resale (and ticket reassignment) via STEP. They could even print a DL# on the ticket, and then when it is resold reprint (for a small fee) the ticket with the new DL and invalidate the existing ticket.

The lottery combined with identification and resale through STEP requirement (to force face value sales AND enable reassignment of ticket to a new ID) would solve this problem.

I secretly wish the BMorg would require it now, before they release the ticket, that it be tied to identifications. However since that probably wasn't in the terms and conditions, and CCs have already been charged, I'm sure it is too late for that. While it could have been possible to really really really screw the scalpers, that opportunity has passed.
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Re: Is 2012 the end of the world for Burning Man?

Postby Lassen Forge » Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:06 pm

ZaphodBurner wrote:I want the BMORG to know that this is thoroughly fucked up. This is bad. Between this bullshit and "Fertility 2.0" (what the fuck is this, a George Lucas film? Digitally add some fire-dancers and TIE Fighters? Is Burning Man going to be re-released in 3D?) it's starting to feel like somebody is trying to show us a dead pet and is trying to convince us that it's only sleeping...


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Re: Is 2012 the end of the world for Burning Man?

Postby Box Burner » Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:59 pm

What???? Whining about tickets again? Isn't there already a thread for that somewhere?
So what if you didn't get tickets, nobody in my camp got tickets either. BUT. It ain't over til it's over. Tickets are still available. And if we don't get tickets this year we'll go next year. Big fat hairy deal. then we'll have two years worth of art to bring. :D

Oh, and piss on your ID required for tickets idea. Sure. It might help with the scalpers. And if you required Id's for tickets there would be lots of tickets available . . . And very little art.

So take your whiny end of Burning Man I ain't got not ticket thread and go somewhere else. And while you're there you can just shove it up your arse, sit on it and twirl.
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Re: Is 2012 the end of the world for Burning Man?

Postby trilobyte » Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:25 am

Some camps will pull it together and be able to make things work. Others will mutate and either adapt or team up with another camp. Still others will take the year off, and some may even implode and call it quits. Even if 500 registered camps just said no and no new camps formed up to take their place, that's still something in the neighborhood of 500 registered theme camps on the playa. I sure hope that many don't, or that for every camp that sits this one out someone else steps things up or tries something new.

It's an unfortunate situation, but not the end of the world. I'm looking forward to hearing about the detailed plan (that Andie mentioned in her recent blog post) coming on the 15th.
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Re: Is 2012 the end of the world for Burning Man?

Postby graidawg » Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:24 am

yes its the end of the world DONT GO

there simple answer. if you think BMorg is fucking you over then dont go, dont give them your money and art. seriously BM started from a guy on a beach 25 years ago. so it can manage with out a few or even hundreds of theme camps, maybe it will give those that do go through the prcess of getting tickets/prepared and out to the playa a better chance of seeing stuff that is exceptional, after all you arent going to bother bringing stuff thats average are you?
everyone that has a ticket has at least seen the home page for BM, many have signed up here so people should be prepared and 2012 is going to be just awesome whatever happens and whoever is there.
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Re: Is 2012 the end of the world for Burning Man?

Postby Spokender » Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:50 am

Burning Man has grown exponentially over the years and I am not simply talking numbers.
It will not end even if the little event in the desert ceases to happen. Burning Man is far more than that.

The seed was planted and this weed of an idea has flourished. Got a ticket? Me either. I don't need to go to Black Rock to be a burner or to contribute to my local community. My "family" vacation to "home" may change this year but the family remains. We can sprout new events - obviously there is only so much growth that desert can sustain.

Talk about endings if you must but remember any "end" is simply change - that "new" will always follow old. That things will be different? Absolutely.
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Re: Is 2012 the end of the world for Burning Man?

Postby ZaphodBurner » Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:12 pm

Spokender wrote:The seed was planted and this weed of an idea has flourished. Got a ticket? Me either. I don't need to go to Black Rock to be a burner or to contribute to my local community. My "family" vacation to "home" may change this year but the family remains. We can sprout new events - obviously there is only so much growth that desert can sustain.


The hippies said the same thing in the 1960s. Regardless, the Summer of Love is over. They flung the doors wide open and accepted anybody, and Charles Manson showed up.

The microcosm in which I saw this myself was Battlebots and Robot Wars. Once they became popular on TV, people started showing up with half-baked nonfunctional ripoffs of what somebody else had already built, just so they could be on the show. Pretty soon it was tiresome and stupid, even for the participants. When the Americans showed up, the English teams just shook their heads in dismay.

Most people barely remember Battlebots but, back in 2001, it was a whole hell of a lot bigger than Burning Man.
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Re: Is 2012 the end of the world for Burning Man?

Postby knowmad » Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:37 pm

Um...
BRC is a temporary city, why should it last forever?
Everybody says a baby is cute, adolesents are trying and beutty is wasted on the young and everyone thinks a played out middle age hipster trying to be eternaly 20-somethingers are just Sad and pathetic.
Personaly If BRC even makes it to "The 27 Club" I will be surprised.

Think amoment on Chief Si'ahl words my friends...

"But why should I mourn the passing of our people? Tribes are made of men, nothing more. Men come and go, like the waves of the sea. A tear, a prayer to the Great Spirit, a dirge, and they are gone from our longing eyes forever. Even the white man, whose God walked and talked with him as friend to friend, cannot escape the common destiny. "
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Re: Is 2012 the end of the world for Burning Man?

Postby ZaphodBurner » Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:18 pm

knowmad wrote:Um...
BRC is a temporary city, why should it last forever?
Everybody says a baby is cute, adolesents are trying and beutty is wasted on the young and everyone thinks a played out middle age hipster trying to be eternaly 20-somethingers are just Sad and pathetic.


What?

Q: Why shouldn't it last forever?
A: Why not?

I have an idea: If you don't think BRC is worthy of lasting another year, don't buy a ticket so those who appreciate BRC for what it IS can go.

Those of us who can only go every other year and have been making plans since leaving the playa in 2010 aren't the only ones who will appreciate it if the people who go every year and bitch about it anyway will politely try sitting this one out.
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Re: Is 2012 the end of the world for Burning Man?

Postby knowmad » Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:14 pm

ZaphodBurner wrote:
knowmad wrote:Um...
BRC is a temporary city, why should it last forever?Everybody says a baby is cute, adolesents are trying and beutty is wasted on the young and everyone thinks a played out middle age hipster trying to be eternaly 20-somethingers are just Sad and pathetic.


What?

Q: Why shouldn't it last forever?
A: Why not?

I have an idea: If you don't think BRC is worthy of lasting another year, don't buy a ticket so those who appreciate BRC for what it IS can go.

Those of us who can only go every other year and have been making plans since leaving the playa in 2010 aren't the only ones who will appreciate it if the people who go every year and bitch about it anyway will politely try sitting this one out.

Do you see your mistake?

They sell books on logic and debate at Amazon.comyou might want to bone up on some of those skills.
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Re: Is 2012 the end of the world for Burning Man?

Postby Marscrumbs » Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:26 pm

I think plan B where hard core burner worker bees get to play top dollar to build the rides for the new crop of virgins tourist instead of their friends leaves something to be desired. Lets all meet up in Europe instead for the money this September.
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Re: Is 2012 the end of the world for Burning Man?

Postby Coastburner » Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:19 pm

Funny thing but if it is the end of the world, it looks like the Black Rock Desert may soon be ocean front property. If that happens, make sure you have enough bacon. Bacon will be the new currency going forward. :mrgreen:

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Re: Is 2012 the end of the world for Burning Man?

Postby Eric » Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:29 pm

knowmad wrote:
ZaphodBurner wrote:
knowmad wrote:Um...
BRC is a temporary city, why should it last forever?


What?

Q: Why shouldn't it last forever?
A: Why not?

Do you see your mistake?

They sell books on logic and debate at Amazon.comyou might want to bone up on some of those skills.


Are you implying that an argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition, not just contradiction?
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Re: Is 2012 the end of the world for Burning Man?

Postby Eric » Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:33 pm

Coastburner wrote:Funny thing but if it is the end of the world, it looks like the Black Rock Desert may soon be ocean front property.


Depending on where the rifts tear, it may be ocean bottom property. The whole Basin & Range is where the continent is tearing itself apart, and eventually the Gulf of California will break through.

Granted, several million years eventually, but hey, who's counting?
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Re: Is 2012 the end of the world for Burning Man?

Postby knowmad » Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:12 am

Eric wrote:Are you implying that an argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition, not just contradiction?

Yes! That series of words you typed precisely described what I was saying. You comprehended it perfectly, despite my many spelling errors.
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Re: Is 2012 the end of the world for Burning Man?

Postby ygmir » Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:01 am

Eric wrote:
Coastburner wrote:Funny thing but if it is the end of the world, it looks like the Black Rock Desert may soon be ocean front property.


Depending on where the rifts tear, it may be ocean bottom property. The whole Basin & Range is where the continent is tearing itself apart, and eventually the Gulf of California will break through.

Granted, several million years eventually, but hey, who's counting?


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Re: Is 2012 the end of the world for Burning Man?

Postby ZaphodBurner » Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:28 am

knowmad wrote:
ZaphodBurner wrote:
knowmad wrote:Um...
BRC is a temporary city, why should it last forever?Everybody says a baby is cute, adolesents are trying and beutty is wasted on the young and everyone thinks a played out middle age hipster trying to be eternaly 20-somethingers are just Sad and pathetic.


Q: Why shouldn't it last forever?
A: Why not?
.

Do you see your mistake?

They sell books on logic and debate at Amazon.comyou might want to bone up on some of those skills.


Oops, sorry, I meant to type "should" but thanks for pointing it out, ignoring everything else and referring me to some corporate website in a snarky and otherwise content-free reply. The world needs more of that. By the way, in your initial post you misspelled "beauty," "adolescents," and "eternally", "20-somethingers" isn't a word, and you don't need to capitalize "sad." Do you see your mistake? Wanna see another one?

"is wasted on the young and everyone thinks a played out middle age hipster trying to be eternaly 20-somethingers are just Sad and pathetic."

I recommend the AP Stylebook, The Transitive Vampire by Karen Elizabeth Gordon, or "Elements of Style" by Strunk & White. You can probably find them at any independent, locally-owned bookstore. ;>
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Re: Is 2012 the end of the world for Burning Man?

Postby ZaphodBurner » Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:46 am

Eric wrote:Depending on where the rifts tear, it may be ocean bottom property. The whole Basin & Range is where the continent is tearing itself apart, and eventually the Gulf of California will break through.


That's pretty scary. Lake Lohantan is high desert at about 4100 feet above sea level so it should be alright, but, you're not going to be able to buy gas in Alturas so it's totally unfair to west coast burners.

Don't worry, the borg will fix it!

(It'll be part of the 13th principle: Dehippification)
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Re: Is 2012 the end of the world for Burning Man?

Postby Lassen Forge » Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:02 pm

Since we're recycling themes... The Floating World 2.0. Got Boats?
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Re: Is 2012 the end of the world for Burning Man?

Postby Marscrumbs » Sat Mar 24, 2012 1:19 am

All the real burners have raptured and won't be there this year on the playa.
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Re: Is 2012 the end of the world for Burning Man?

Postby Stephendragonfly » Sat Mar 24, 2012 1:28 am

Is it true that the Ten Principles will be fighting to the death in the Thunderdome? First up Decommodification Vrs Radical Inclusion (for Pay to Play Camps).
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Re: Is 2012 the end of the world for Burning Man?

Postby ZaphodBurner » Sun Mar 25, 2012 3:44 pm

Stephendragonfly wrote:Is it true that the Ten Principles will be fighting to the death in the Thunderdome?


This is already happening, friend.

You may have also heard about the e-playa conscription act. To Arms! To Arms! Volunteer now and avoid the draft!
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