The Solution

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Re: The Solution

Postby CornMan » Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:49 pm

$199 operating permit for each generator. The placard must be displayed. Honda EU1000-3000 are exempted.
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Re: The Solution

Postby Jackass » Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:13 pm

oneeyeddick wrote:Personally, I think tents are a noisy, intrusive eyesore to the main camping areas.

Some of the larger tent camps are even so embarassed of them that they attempt to cover their entire camp in Camo netting.

Most of them provide nothing but personal shade and a horrible place to sleep in.

Plus spiders can get in there.

*shudders*

All tent dwellers should be forced to camp in the walk-in camping area in order to make way for more efficient (and attractive) rows of RVs.

Also, it would make things a lot easier for those late comers when they are looking for somewhere to park on Friday and Saturday.


I agree, rv or walk-in. Which will it be?
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Re: The Solution

Postby liz-lemon » Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:17 pm

Seems like everyone is a weeeee bit testy about their comfy cozy RVs…. I think that if you have the means you should try to find and artistic solution to your dwelling. They are so many… other than tents people!!!! Like a yurts and tipis.. one of my friends had a yurt pimped out with an air cooling system…. Pretty great! I feel like if you have been going for years…a dwelling made for the event should be way up there on the priority list..

Wealthy non-contributors are defiantly going to be living in these RVs and party buses…. Are you one of them? That’s who we are targeting with this anti-scalping issues... right… who is buying those scalped tickets???? We are not going to stop the scalping till we tie a name with an ID… period.


Still I never said ban RV’s all together, just limit the number…. Just like the regulation of low income tickets… Say why you need it and how your contributing with it. If you can’t get the permit, but need your cozy so bad and don’t have the time to really pimp it out.. Maybe you can get some neat fabric, cover your RV so it takes on a new form.

How can we comfortably get the most sharing and creativity possible????!!!!
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Re: The Solution

Postby ragabashpup » Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:21 pm

The idea of limiting the number of RVs seems ridiculous to me. Not only do you have artists etc that camp in RVs but also families with small children, people with medical conditions and people that can just afford it. If someone wants the luxury that is their burn not yours. Why impose more rules if it doesn't actually help the event in any way.

I do not camp in an RV but that is a personal choice. I am a tent camper and enjoy it that way.
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Re: The Solution

Postby Jackass » Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:13 am

I stay in a pop-up tent trailer. Where do I get to set up camp, with the RVs or walk-in? Does this mean that I don't contribute, do I add to "the cool burning man vibe"? Painting with a broad brush...
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Re: The Solution

Postby pink » Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:34 am

Where does my 1989 van conversion fit in? It's a lot more comfy than a tent (and I have a bathroom!!!), but it's rusty and I've been trying to figure out how to paint it, but I'm just not really creative. So I just keep on putting stickers & stuff on it and let it evolve. And it doesn't even have a generator!

So am I a rich, entitled, non-contributing asshole, because I have a mobile housing unit that is undeniably more comfy than a tent (unless you have a really big tent with an airmattress and room to stand up, and furniture, and a swamp cooler and....), or just someone who owns a beat-up, but paid for, mostly reliable vehicle that I can bring to the playa?

And the last time I checked, a hexayurt wouldn't fit into my Honda. So I guess all "real burners" must own pickup trucks?
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Re: The Solution

Postby CornMan » Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:39 am

Coachella considers these vehicles as being prohibited in the camping area at their festival. I'm not advocating their rules as strictly.
http://www.coachella.com/travel-lodging/on-site-camping
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These vehicles are allowed in the coachella camping area.
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Re: The Solution

Postby Igneouss » Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:38 am

The idea of associating a name with a ticket and requiring matching ID at the gate has been floated for a while. As I watch the current sale devolve in to chaos I think the name/ID option may be the only way to go.

The BMorg stated (somewhere) that it did not like the idea of requiring burners to have ID at the gate. That's a noble concept. But then the BMorg developed a system that requires burners to obtain some sort of credit card for ticket purchases...

So the trade-off for acting like a commercial organization (which they are) and requiring ID would be a few people that have trouble producing ID at the gate? ID vs scalpers? In this day and age ID is really not much of an issue.

- each ticket purchase is associated with a name.
- only the BMorg can change the name fostering a resale system.
- this is very similar to the current will-call system demonstrating that the BMorg already has functional systems in place.
- various types of tickets can be controlled effectively (scholarship, conclave, etc).
- scalping is eliminated.
- uncertainty is reduced.
Basic b/e analysis:
2005 $243K
06 $855K
07 $1.0M
08 $1.1M
09 $0
10 $1.1M
11 $1.2M
12 $1.2M
That’s $6.8M that thousands of volunteers deserve to know about. Capitalism is alive at BM. Tickets are the commodity. Others have estimated higher profits.
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Re: The Solution

Postby lemur » Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:17 am

Igneouss wrote:The idea of associating a name with a ticket and requiring matching ID at the gate has been floated for a while. As I watch the current sale devolve in to chaos I think the name/ID option may be the only way to go.

The BMorg stated (somewhere) that it did not like the idea of requiring burners to have ID at the gate. That's a noble concept. But then the BMorg developed a system that requires burners to obtain some sort of credit card for ticket purchases...

So the trade-off for acting like a commercial organization (which they are) and requiring ID would be a few people that have trouble producing ID at the gate? ID vs scalpers? In this day and age ID is really not much of an issue.

- each ticket purchase is associated with a name.
- only the BMorg can change the name fostering a resale system.
- this is very similar to the current will-call system demonstrating that the BMorg already has functional systems in place.
- various types of tickets can be controlled effectively (scholarship, conclave, etc).
- scalping is eliminated.
- uncertainty is reduced.


As i see it, from my ignorant non gate experienced point of view.. You surely may know more than i..

the only ones that matter to the vast majority of people out there...are the last two things.. eliminating scalping and reducing uncertainty..

In your experience in the gate (i think i remember you somewhere mentioning working it?). would checking ID's (and whatever that means logistically) be "worth it" to solve those things ?

do you think that there is more benefit to names on tickets than just eliminating scalping and reducing uncertainty ?

(edit: maybe im confusing you for someone else.. added stuff to point that out))
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Re: The Solution

Postby Igneouss » Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:37 am

Hi Lemur,
I'm not a gate person.
My feeling is that it would stop scalping. Perceptions about uncertainty are much harder to limit. BM is bumping up against the BLM permit limits which can cause this problem to continue. My personal and non-quantitative opinion is that there are enough tickets this year. Unfortunately, BMorg did not anticipate the quantity of hedging this year and that only adds to the perceptions of uncertainty...

It will be very interesting to see all this plays out.

One lesson is that the BMorg has virtually no credibility on the issue. They published lots of info that basically said 'relax, use the new system, everything will be fine'. Unfortunately, they were caught flat footed by the response (many many people finding ways to order extra tickets in an attempt to limit uncertainty).
Basic b/e analysis:
2005 $243K
06 $855K
07 $1.0M
08 $1.1M
09 $0
10 $1.1M
11 $1.2M
12 $1.2M
That’s $6.8M that thousands of volunteers deserve to know about. Capitalism is alive at BM. Tickets are the commodity. Others have estimated higher profits.
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Re: The Solution

Postby Sham » Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:35 am

This is my first post weighing in on the idea of having names on tickets and having to show an ID at the gate.

Imagine getting to the gate with a valid ticket that someone spent $400 dollars for and having a greeter turn you back home because the name didn't match. These lovable volunteer ticket takers would be assaulted, maimed and probably murdered right where their dusty little bodies are standing.

It would be a full time job for an entire staff to be changing the names on half the tickets sold. Think of the logical fuck-fest that it might create.

There is a steady list of reasons why people can't attend at the last minute, and they want or need to sell their ticket. If the 4 week window to change the name has passed (because everyone who could possibly make the change is now out on the playa) then the poor person would be stuck with a $400 ticket that they can't unload.

The list of cons could go on forever, but simply looking at the complex logistics should be reason enough to drop any thought of customized tickets.
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Re: The Solution

Postby AntiM » Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:00 am

The low income tickets will be customized, as they are noon-transferable. Perhaps a separate lottery for a low tier, non-transferrable except through the BMORG, and if you can't fully commit, you eat the ticket. If you are iffy, or need gift tickets you go into a higher priced tier, in a separate drawing. Sure, someone would get stuck, but not for as much, and not nearly as likely.
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Re: The Solution

Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:56 am

Shambala wrote:Imagine getting to the gate with a valid ticket that someone spent $400 dollars for and having a greeter turn you back home because the name didn't match. These lovable volunteer ticket takers would be assaulted, maimed and probably murdered right where their dusty little bodies are standing.

You're confusing greeters and gate.

(Why is this so common?)
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Re: The Solution

Postby Leo » Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:56 pm

The ultimate solution is for each purchaser of tickets to write a 400 word essay on "Why I deserve to go to Burning Man". This would weed out the scalpers immediately, as this would be too much effort on their part. While the essay would be a major hoop to jump through, people that truly want to go to Burning Man would take this step. The essays would be graded on creativity, spelling, and punctuation.
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Re: The Solution

Postby BBadger » Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:05 pm

Leo wrote:The ultimate solution is for each purchaser of tickets to write a 400 word essay on "Why I deserve to go to Burning Man". This would weed out the scalpers immediately, as this would be too much effort on their part. While the essay would be a major hoop to jump through, people that truly want to go to Burning Man would take this step. The essays would be graded on creativity, spelling, and punctuation.


That sounded like the "graduate seminar" I had to attend in college where we'd sit through some guest speakers talking about stuff in engineering. To make sure we paid attention, the teacher required us to write some two-page response about what the seminar was about, what we learned, what was interesting (that was hardest), etc.

The worst part, however, was that the essays were graded by some schmuck PhD student in Communications from the humanities side of campus who could not really evaluate any of the content in the essays other than spelling and grammar. Our essays would get dinged, not on the content, but on stupid technicalities that had nothing to do with the seminars. In one of the weeks I wrote some response where all I did was rant about how much I hated listening to the inept speaker who had a spelling mistake in his title slide, and how the graduate seminar class sucked, and I ended up getting a better grade on that than most of the more well-thought-out ones.

So I think, yeah, that would be an AWESOME way to weed out burners, especially if we're graded on the spelling and grammar more than the content. We could even use the awesome scorekeeping system from last year.
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Re: The Solution

Postby lemur » Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:08 pm

Leo wrote:The essays would be graded on creativity, spelling, and punctuation.


do you really want THIS GUY:

Image

grading your essay ?
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Re: The Solution

Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:31 pm

No. His essays have always seemed literally sophomoric to me. (Pretty much exactly the pretension level of a college sophomore.) It embarrasses me to read them, in fact, because I don't like being reminded of who I was at age 20. Besides, as I've said elsewhere, I think there are plenty of people who contribute, but who cannot write a winning 400 essay. In English. I think of the Zen master who did the tea ceremony, and the others who came with him from Japan who helped to set up the tea house. Everyone I know who participated in that ceremony who's said anything on the matter has insisted that it was a very focused and special experience.
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Re: The Solution

Postby ygmir » Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:45 pm

Leo wrote:The ultimate solution is for each purchaser of tickets to write a 400 word essay on "Why I deserve to go to Burning Man". This would weed out the scalpers immediately, as this would be too much effort on their part. While the essay would be a major hoop to jump through, people that truly want to go to Burning Man would take this step. The essays would be graded on creativity, spelling, and punctuation.


maybe try this out on your own?
you could set up and entry booth at a KOA and see who'll write an essay to camp?
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Re: The Solution

Postby The CO » Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:21 am

Liz, I think you should get off the RV hate. Your attitude makes me want to go buy one just for the burn and name it 'Liz L.'
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Re: The Solution

Postby oneeyeddick » Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:27 am

She is just sour because no one has let her shower in their RV yet.

that, plus she is a lemon.
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Re: The Solution

Postby The CO » Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:32 am

oneeyeddick wrote:that, plus she is a lemon.


<belly laughter>
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Re: The Solution

Postby lemur » Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:32 am

Image

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Re: The Solution

Postby AntiM » Tue Jan 31, 2012 6:15 am

Leo wrote:The ultimate solution is for each purchaser of tickets to write a 400 word essay on "Why I deserve to go to Burning Man". This would weed out the scalpers immediately, as this would be too much effort on their part. While the essay would be a major hoop to jump through, people that truly want to go to Burning Man would take this step. The essays would be graded on creativity, spelling, and punctuation.



No, you're doing it wrong. The essay should be entitled, "Why I deserve to go to Burning Man more than you deserve the privilege".
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Re: The Solution

Postby Leo » Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:29 am

My previous post about the 400 word essay was written "tongue-in-cheek" while drinking some cheap Cabernet. My oldest son is applying for admission to colleges, and writing an essay appears to be an integral part of the admission process.
With the demand for tickets exceeding the supply, the Org could require some silly requirements to get a ticket, and I would probably go along with the program.
Wear a pink tutu and green wig in downtown Seattle at noon? Done.
Write a 400 word essay? No problem.
Bribe the Org with a bottle of Jack Daniels or a case of PBR? Why not!
Since we are going through the lottery system this year, why not make it fun with a few "off-the-wall" requirements required for the price of admission?
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Re: The Solution

Postby AntiM » Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:56 am

My tongue is usually firmly in someone's cheek.

I think number of tutus owned may be a huge factor next year.
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Re: The Solution

Postby A Jester » Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:20 am

AntiM wrote:My tongue is usually firmly in someone's cheek.

I think number of tutus owned may be a huge factor next year.


Must find AntiM on playa.
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Re: The Solution

Postby Leo » Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:28 am

[quote="A Jester"][quote="AntiM"][b]My tongue is usually firmly in someone's cheek.[/b]

X 2

Must find AntiM on playa.[/quote]
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Re: The Solution

Postby AntiM » Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:39 am

A Jester wrote:
AntiM wrote:My tongue is usually firmly in someone's cheek.

I think number of tutus owned may be a huge factor next year.


Must find AntiM on playa.



I'm easy, we have a sign.

(Anti M's Home For Wayward Art will be residing in BDC&WB this year)
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Re: The Solution

Postby A Jester » Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:50 am

AntiM wrote:
A Jester wrote:
AntiM wrote:My tongue is usually firmly in someone's cheek.

I think number of tutus owned may be a huge factor next year.


Must find AntiM on playa.



I'm easy, we have a sign.

(Anti M's Home For Wayward Art will be residing in BDC&WB this year)


Must learn how to read so I can find AntiM on the playa.
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Re: The Solution

Postby theCryptofishist » Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:30 pm

A Jester is sharp as a tack!
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