well it looks like it failed.

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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby leeloo » Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:01 pm

I think that there might be a simple solution/combination of what others have suggested! That 1. people who are registered to buy tickets already and who will not have gotten tickets will be the only people who can buy tickets with the STEP system for a given period of time before other people who have not tried yet have an opportunity and 2. the tickets will have to be picked up at will call by the new owners of the tickets, that way it will be more difficult for scalpers to sell them on the open market. This might still be a cluster-f#$% however it won't be as many tickets as if you had all of the tickets being sold with names on them/will call.
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby Raymaker » Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:12 pm

trilobyte wrote:@biketotheburn - last year's server meltdown was unfortunate. But even when you're dealing with the evil big-boys (Ticketmaster, LiveNation) they experience server issues, kickouts, and occasionally crashes during first-day on-sales when the demand exceeds around 10K transactions. But handling first day capacity wasn't the primary problem - scarcity is. Sure, tickets didn't sell out until July, but half sold in under 48 hours (and that's with that server meltdown). The goal was never to sell the event out as quickly as possible. The ticket team and other key members of Burning Man reviewed those events and a multitude of other events, as well as had great conversations about what works and what doesn't with other event production companies. We'll see how this system works out in the weeks ahead. And hey, welcome to ePlaya!


I really don't get this point, the only reason burning man didn't sell out this year was because BM held tickets back. Last year only half the tickets available at that time, sold out, this year every ticket available at this time, sold out. So on that basis alone the system last year was better/fairer. It is the changes made to ticket sales this year that has fuelled this panic.

The opinion about scalpers is based on Professional Scalpers, but I am certain that there are many amateur/opportunist 'scalpers' out there that are happy to pay up front for a 200%+ return in such a short time, for anyone with money to spare such a guaranteed return is greater than any interest you can make in a deposit bank over the same period, even making just $50 is a better return. June isn't that far away.

A hole was dug before Christmas when the 'cool hip burners' who frequent the forums, slated anyone who pointed out possible problems such a system would have, and the same frequent posters are doing it now, the hole may get deeper, then all the defense on this will just start to look like tired worn out failed propaganda. People should have the privilege to be angry, they should be afforded the privilege state it on this forum, they do not need the 'I an holier than you, condensing replies they are getting from some of the regulars in here.

Even if I am lucky enough to get the two tickets my partner applied for, I am now not so looking forward to going back to BM like I was last year.
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby lemur » Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:24 pm

Raymaker wrote:
A hole was dug before Christmas when the 'cool hip burners' who frequent the forums, slated anyone who pointed out possible problems such a system would have, and the same frequent posters are doing it now, the hole may get deeper, then all the defense on this will just start to look like tired worn out failed propaganda. People should have the privilege to be angry, they should be afforded the privilege state it on this forum, they do not need the 'I an holier than you, condensing replies they are getting from some of the regulars in here.




YOUR CONDESCENDING HOLIER THAN THOU POST IS AN ATTEMPT TO SILENCE MY 100% VALID ANGER AGAINST PEOPLE WHO TRY TO STIFLE THE VERY VALID AND 100% LEGITIMATE CONCERNS I HAVE WITH PEOPLE WHO THINK THAT THE TICKET SITUTATION IS FUCKED UP.

edit:
(it goes both ways ya know.. this is called open discourse.. if you dont want people disagreeing with you: GET A BLOG)
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby Raymaker » Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:32 pm

lemur wrote:

YOUR CONDESCENDING HOLIER THAN THOU POST IS AN ATTEMPT TO SILENCE MY 100% VALID ANGER AGAINST PEOPLE WHO TRY TO STIFLE THE VERY VALID AND 100% LEGITIMATE CONCERNS I HAVE WITH PEOPLE WHO THINK THAT THE TICKET SITUTATION IS FUCKED UP.

edit:
(it goes both ways ya know.. this is called open discourse.. if you dont want people disagreeing with you: GET A BLOG)


I am very privileged in my life, people have been good to me far more than I deserve. All I can say is that in my experience everyone I have dealt with in my 53 years with your attitude are the ones who have invariably made life for other people harder, more difficult, unbearable. It doesn't matter to me that you have 'status' on this forum, it's hollow.
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby lemur » Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:35 pm

i have no status on this forum, ..i post,you post.. we all post. i am not a moderator.
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby Eric » Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:44 pm

Raymaker wrote:
lemur wrote:

YOUR CONDESCENDING HOLIER THAN THOU POST IS AN ATTEMPT TO SILENCE MY 100% VALID ANGER AGAINST PEOPLE WHO TRY TO STIFLE THE VERY VALID AND 100% LEGITIMATE CONCERNS I HAVE WITH PEOPLE WHO THINK THAT THE TICKET SITUTATION IS FUCKED UP.

edit:
(it goes both ways ya know.. this is called open discourse.. if you dont want people disagreeing with you: GET A BLOG)


I am very privileged in my life, people have been good to me far more than I deserve. All I can say is that in my experience everyone I have dealt with in my 53 years with your attitude are the ones who have invariably made life for other people harder, more difficult, unbearable. It doesn't matter to me that you have 'status' on this forum, it's hollow.


Raymaker- I think you missed his point. He basically just restated your quoted post, but coming from the other side. There is a lot of division in the community being caused by the drawing, Lemur was just pointing out that both sides have a right to speak, in a not-too-subtle sort of way. (unless anyone who disagrees with you makes your life more difficult, and I don't think that's what you meant)

lemur wrote:i have no status on this forum, ..i post,you post.. we all post. i am not a moderator.


We don't have status either- we just whack spam & try to control the fires.
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby lemur » Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:49 pm

oh ok.. i didnt mean to imply moderators had a higher status..oops.

you have a job to do, you arent any dif from the rest of us, of course..


some people might think you guys get some sort of preferential 'borg' treatment but that surely isnt the case..
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby vapor » Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:57 pm

" 2. the tickets will have to be picked up at will call by the new owners of the tickets, that way it will be more difficult for scalpers to sell them on the open market."

Since physical tickets don't get sent until June, nobody really "owns" a ticket until then, they have paid for something to be delivered when it is "manufactured". Seems like the ideal solution is for the org to refund money to those who have too many, then sell them within the existing registered list. That does however take away the penalty of over registering, getting too many tickets, and having to sit on that cash before selling in June. But I think the benefits of early redistribution outweigh that cost. Also would provide some useful research data as to how many real people are wanting to buy a ticket now.

I honestly doubt there will be too much of a scalpers market before physical tickets are available, how many people will pay now for a ticket not delivered for 5 months to someone they don't know ? A "between friends" market, sure, same as every year.
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby Sham » Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:10 pm

lemur wrote:
some people might think you guys get some sort of preferential 'borg' treatment but that surely isnt the case..

No preferential treatment whatsoever. I have my ticket entry in, and waiting to see what happens.
As a 12 year member of this community, I only want to see people stay cool headed through the process. I always order 2 tickets, and I will either have none, or 1 extra to offer up to a camp mate.
I hope things are successful, and this success depends on the attitude of everyone involved---especially me! :roll:
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby Saguache » Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:18 pm

ben-no wrote:Well it look like there system didn't work.


I'm not certain we can come to this conclusion. The system was designed to distribute a fixed number of tickets. This lottery will end up distributing 40K tickets. The capped number just happens to be low enough that many people felt compelled to hoard tickets in an effort to avert the possibility that they might not get theirs.

Perception of supply availability is a far more potent motivating agent than actual supply. In my estimation BMORG is doing themselves a disservice by not making this information available. A really easy way to resolve this would be to publish the actual availability of tickets as a ratio compared to the number of people demanding them. A sliding (or expanding) population cap would help as well, but who knows how likely that might be?

Incidentally the above would help mitigate two problems. An abundance of tickets would reduce or eliminate the formation of secondary markets (why buy from a scalper or hoarder if BMORG is still selling what you want at a reduced price?) and an abundance by definition would eliminate the motivation to hoard tickets.
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby theCryptofishist » Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:55 pm

matt_kicks wrote:Having people apply for their tickets seems exponentially more feasible than having names printed on tickets. Spend 30 minutes filling out an application about what the event means to you or what you'll bring to the event if you're a first timer. Have a team of volunteer mods to read and review the applications to weed out the people who made no effort and scrub scammers/scalpers. Issue tickets until they are sold out.

Oh yeah. Let's get the English majors in. Leaving out the car mechanics and machine shop operators. (In a very crude sketch. We all know that there are mechanics and machinists whose command of the language is very impressive.) Oh, what about the Japanese, Norwegians, and South Africans? There are a lot of people with a lot to contribute, who can't put it in a written application. And do we really need any more bad prose than Larry's. His keeps me quite satisfied. And then there are the people who will hire someone to write his/her answers. Those are "real burners"...

And it will be expensive. You don't get people reading all those tens of thousands of essays for free. And you have to keep rotating...it'll burn out anyone with a soul...

Oh well.
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby MisaBlue » Sat Jan 28, 2012 6:03 pm

I am going to FUCK thread.
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby theCryptofishist » Sat Jan 28, 2012 6:07 pm

(((Misa)))
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby Nipple » Sat Jan 28, 2012 6:12 pm

weather man wrote:
Shambala wrote:It's clear that this has happened, but who would be so stupid as to post it? I know who! :roll:

Radical Self Reliance. I put in for two and my wife put in for two.
If we get extras, that's two that are not in the hands of brokers and will go back into the community.


Oh sure, your neighbors will get tickets... but by all means, make sure you get yours first.
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby MisaBlue » Sat Jan 28, 2012 6:16 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:(((Misa)))


I don't know why I visit the ticket threads...I MUST BE REALLY DUMB!!!
It just makes me sad how are some people behaving. They complain and complain, call people who work their asses of to organize BM by bad names.
No thank you, no respect, but what is worst...mostly no common sense.

It is easier to call BMORG pigs than think about the self moral status of cheating the ticket process.
OK, I have to stop again or I will be rude...


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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby theCryptofishist » Sat Jan 28, 2012 6:25 pm

Spacibo...

edited to add: Dekuji. (forgive my spelling...)
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby Just_Joe » Sat Jan 28, 2012 6:41 pm

MisaBlue wrote:It is easier to call BMORG pigs than think about the self moral status of cheating the ticket process.

In the 60's/70's police were commonly called pigs- The poster said pigs" (Police) don't have to buy tickets.
He wasn't calling BMORG pigs.
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby Mofessor » Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:11 pm

so if putting a name on the ticket is a problem because it (supposedly) slows down entry to the event, why not go entirely to will call tickets, but instead of people picking them up on the playa, have them pick them up at a Reno location starting three days before the burn/early entry/whatever. Specifically:

1. BMORG could rent out a Reno location (I suppose you could do Fernley as well, if that worked better).
2. Location should be at the university, somewhere in downtown Reno, or out by the Nugget in Sparks so there would be plenty of parking accommodations.
3. Burners would not be able to pick up tickets until three days (or whatever) before the event to help prevent scalping.
4. You would need to show ID to pick up your tickets. Multiple registrations under the same name would not be allowed.

Positives:
A) it would somewhat discourage people from doing multiple entries under family and friends names, although it would not completely discourage people from hoarding
B) it would still allow gifting of tickets
C) it would discourage people registering for multiple tickets believing they would make their money back, one way or the other, on the resale market
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby lemur » Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:26 pm

dont cross post !!!!
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby Mofessor » Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:33 pm

lemur wrote:dont cross post !!!!


Trying to get feedback, deal with it.
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby serpentine » Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:55 pm

This lottery system is stupid and has already failed. It is only rewarding procrastinators that did not apply early through this ridiculous "redistribution" scheme. How is this either good or fair?
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby alt12 » Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:05 pm

AntiM wrote:Excuse me, but did you read the burning blog post? THERE WILL BE AN OFFICIAL RESALE THROUGH THE BMORG. Called STEP, yes? Details TBA after the main sale.

http://blog.burningman.com/2012/01/news ... main-sale/



Who gives a shit? Do you think scalpers are going to be using STEP??? give me a fucking break man. The temptation to sell the ticket over fare value with no consequences whatsoever will be high. The incentive to use another bureaucratic piece of shit process that bmorg set-up to band-aid their shitty bureaucratic lottery process is low.... Here quick check, how many of you use the official burning man rideshare system? Give me a break....
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby alt12 » Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:21 pm

serpentine wrote:This lottery system is stupid and has already failed. It is only rewarding procrastinators that did not apply early through this ridiculous "redistribution" scheme. How is this either good or fair?


It is what it is. Good to start sharpening your negotiating skills now as it will be a full-contact ticket scramble once the lottery results are announced. I can't say this is all the organization's fault as once tickets sell out for a yearly event, it changes the whole playing field going forward. We are entering a new era here. They did the best they could to try to address it (even if you think they fucked it up.)

Personally, I think just having flat-price tickets would have been a much better move this year. It would reduce a significant amount of the pressure. Really, the opening day ticket sale scramble has always been 100% a function incentivized by the pricing tiers. Take away the pricing tiers and you eliminate a significant amount of pressure to buy tickets immedeately. I realize that this means some people who can't afford a higher ticket will get priced out, but lets be honest here, we're talking maybe $100. that's probably less than the average participants drug/booz budget for the week....

I wish they were simply selling 50,000 tickets at $320 a piece starting on day X and ending until sells out.... Oh well....
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby lemur » Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:23 pm

alt12 wrote: give me a fucking break man... Give me a break....


OK OK OK OK.. SHEEESH..

I GOT ONE RIGHT HERE.. hold yer horses

Image


even if the BORG wasnt a buncha money grubbing beurocratic nazis.. (who probably eat babies)

i would still want a kit kat.

they are just sooooo good
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby Saguache » Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:49 pm

serpentine wrote:This lottery system is stupid and has already failed. It is only rewarding procrastinators that did not apply early through this ridiculous "redistribution" scheme. How is this either good or fair?


Welcome to ePlaya

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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby CornMan » Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:04 pm

alt12 wrote:
serpentine wrote:This lottery system is stupid and has already failed. It is only rewarding procrastinators that did not apply early through this ridiculous "redistribution" scheme. How is this either good or fair?


It is what it is. Good to start sharpening your negotiating skills now as it will be a full-contact ticket scramble once the lottery results are announced. I can't say this is all the organization's fault as once tickets sell out for a yearly event, it changes the whole playing field going forward. We are entering a new era here. They did the best they could to try to address it (even if you think they fucked it up.)


Um, no. If it were to come to that, it will be apparent that an era has passed, and there's no use trying to resurrect it. If I don't get a ticket by August, I'll let the members of my camp know that I'm emptying my garage of EMT conduit, tarps, fittings, carport, firepit, shower stall, ect, and I'll put it on the lawn so they can pick it up en route to BRC. Anything not picked up will go on craigslist for free. It will be what it will be, and I'll be able to park my truck in my garage again.
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby curiousgnate » Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:27 am

i disagree a 100% just do random ticket/id checks and the line will be fine they already do random searches attach an id check and it would take about 15 secs longer. and the cost can easily be absorbed by the org. they are already making money. take it out of their pay checks! a name on a ticket is not cost prohibitive, it is profit prohibitive. suck it the fuck up! i am so glad that i am not in this cluster fuck of pure chaos. the ticket verifiying process alone is going to be a nightmare when it comes to re-selling tickets. has anyone tried to do it in the past? it takes forever for them to get back to you if they do at all. quite frankly this is the biggest mess they have caused yet. if you want to be in denial and believe that things will be handled correctly for the rest of the process, go ahead denile isn't just a river in egypt! enjoy! i for one am not being a part of this craziness! I would rather deal with scalpers 4 months after tickets went on sale then this crap!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby engineer2012 » Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:36 am

Uncle wrote:
- run a simple Dutch auction that automatically clears the number of tickets available at a market determined price
?


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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby engineer2012 » Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:43 am

vapor wrote:
I would suggest keeping the STEP program "private" for a period of time to only those who registered for the lottery and did not win.


Agreed!!!
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby engineer2012 » Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:31 am

Simon of the Playa wrote:


this one is OLD i want a FRESHIE!!!


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