Playa Tested Greywater Evaporator

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Re: Playa Tested Greywater Evaporator

Postby trilobyte » Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:29 pm

It's your choice. You can either haul out all your waste water (which could get messy and cumbersome), or you look for ways to reduce the volume that you have to transport off the playa.
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Re: Playa Tested Greywater Evaporator

Postby JDCookMS » Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:31 pm

trilobyte wrote:It's your choice. You can either haul out all your waste water (which could get messy and cumbersome), or you look for ways to reduce the volume that you have to transport off the playa.


I gotcha...so, in that case, I guess the question is... how can I turn an evaporator into some kind of steampunk? haha (Or is that not exactly feasible? ...I think that grey water could be get of....funky.)
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Re: Playa Tested Greywater Evaporator

Postby Elliot » Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:55 pm

Steampunk? Well, a couple of years ago I saw an evaporator that looked like a metal chimney. It was attached to the side of his bus for support. The owner said it worked fine.
I don't remember much about it, but I think the concept is that a black metal chimney would absorb a lot of heat, and then you introduce the gray water inside that heat, and the vapor rises out the top.

That said, I've always felt that evaporating waste water might be a great way to spread germs.
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Re: Playa Tested Greywater Evaporator

Postby Zhust » Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:22 am

Elliot wrote:That said, I've always felt that evaporating waste water might be a great way to spread germs.


Atomizing it for sure. Evaporating it, probably not. Unfortunately the fountain-style evaporator is sort-of an atomizer in the wind which is, as you may have noticed, common.
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Re: Playa Tested Greywater Evaporator

Postby trilobyte » Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:27 am

@JDCookMS - put on your thinking cap and get creative! There are some awesome ideas on the site for things that work, you just need to figure out what you would like to (and can manage to) do in order to give it the look and feel you like.
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Re: Playa Tested Greywater Evaporator

Postby Raymaker » Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:56 am

for two people we just used an inflatable childs paddling pool, it worked for us.
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Re: Playa Tested Greywater Evaporator

Postby Canoe » Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:59 pm

illy dilly wrote:...
Wicking really seems to be the key word to a succesful evap pond, with out motors and pumps and stuff.
I'm thinking, I'm gonna building a sorta frame that will sit over the evap pond, to hang fabric too. One end of the fabric will sit in the water, while the other end is hung so that wind will blow across it...


Gardening capillary mat will wick water upwards, but is supposedly limited to a 1" lift. I've used it to lift up to 3".
As water evaporates off the mat, it wicks more to replace it. Don't know what rate of flow it will produce. Although not black, it is medium grey in colour.

Some sort of support (wire mesh, wood lattice, plastic rod, etc.) which allows the mat to sit flat 2" above the water such that you have air flow both above and below the mat, may work well. With some ends dangling in the water it will wick water out of the pond and across the mat. This support can float on top of the pond so its function is not dependent on the pond's water level. Should collect a lot of dust in the mat, but you can occasionally wash that off. You could add additional pieces of matting:
> below the flat mat such that it wicks water out of the tray at multiple points, while these are also in the air flow for enhanced evaporation
> sticking up above the flat mat for more surface area and to catch more air for evaporation

I have not built this so I have no idea what would/may be optimal or available for water flow vs. evaporation rate.
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Re: Playa Tested Greywater Evaporator

Postby asr9754 » Sun Jun 30, 2013 11:28 pm

My camp built on of these evaporators tonight, using a 500 gph Rule-brand sump pump connected to black irrigation line

When we turn in on, it pumps great for 10 or 15 seconds, but then slows down to a trickle by about 30 seconds. If we disconnect it for a second and reconnect, it starts up great again, then slows down again. We can't get a good consistent flow of water from the pump. Anyone else have this problem? What kind of pumps have been successful? Am I missing something? Thank you!

FYI Our flying saucer is 42" high. The pump is rated 500 gph, 12v, and the paperwork says it should be able to pump to 180 gph at 2 meters. I know we're connected properly red and black. It's clean water from the hose. ?? Help? Cheers! We're having a moscow mule party at our camp and will save one for you!
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Re: Playa Tested Greywater Evaporator

Postby Canoe » Mon Jul 01, 2013 3:06 pm

Power source?
Photos?
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Re: Playa Tested Greywater Evaporator

Postby Zhust » Mon Jul 01, 2013 3:54 pm

asr9754 wrote:When we turn in on, it pumps great for 10 or 15 seconds, but then slows down to a trickle by about 30 seconds. If we disconnect it for a second and reconnect, it starts up great again, then slows down again.


Guess #1: It sounds like you're getting air in. Are you sure the pump is sunk deep enough so it is submerged as far as it is supposed to be? If it sucks air it might lock up since the output hose would have water pressure fighting the pump which is now trying to pump out its air bubble and a little water.

Guess #2: You need a check valve in the output line. This prevents water from flowing back down the line; it'll help with that vapor-lock problem above.

Guess #3: It's a bad pump.
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Re: Playa Tested Greywater Evaporator

Postby asr9754 » Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:31 am

Thank you,
#1) The airlock sounds likely, we have an elbow joint in the line that may be catching a bubble. Will remove the elbow and just use a single piece of curved tubing.

#2) the pump manufacturer does not recommend using check valves with these pumps, I guess the check valve can get stuck closed and burn out the pump or the pump loses too much power trying to push it open and water flow suffers.

#3) These pumps seem shoddy, disposable construction. Will definitely take a spare to the playa. Not just the Rule brand, but Attwood, Shureflo all have poor reviews for longevity and these are the market leaders. ANyone know of a good 12V low amp bilge pump alternative? Thanks all.
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Re: Playa Tested Greywater Evaporator

Postby theCryptofishist » Tue Jul 02, 2013 6:08 pm

Is it possible that all those pumps are made in the same factory and have different names on them?
Just curious, sorry for the drift.
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Re: Playa Tested Greywater Evaporator

Postby asr9754 » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:58 pm

We got rid of the elbow joint and now just have a single piece of tubing from the pump running to the top of the disk. Performance is improved, the pump runs well for 3-5 minutes, but then again the water flow starts to slow and around 6 minutes becomes just a trickle. Suspect it must still be catching a bit of air somewhere and bubble is forming in the line or inside the pump itself.

We rigged our pump with a timer switch that will run 3 minutes on/3 minutes off in order to save power, so I think it will work out OK. The pump will run for 3 minutes, soak the wire mesh, then turn off to let the sun and wind do their job, then repeat the cycle.

We're considering wrapping the 1/4" wire mesh with another layer of window screen to increase surface area and water holding capacity--Has anyone tried this? Tips?
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Re: Playa Tested Greywater Evaporator

Postby AzJames » Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:41 pm

You could try cheese cloth or burlap, that will retain the water better and maybe even wick some water up from the pool when the pump is off. On the other hand it could also act as a sail in the winds. :roll:
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Re: Playa Tested Greywater Evaporator

Postby BeeWeeDee » Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:06 pm

This may be a good place to post this - or not. But....for the burner with a small grey water footprint.....

Last year I rigged a set of 3 hanging baskets that had the coconut fiber inserts for making real hanging baskets. Instead of potting soil, I filled each basket with some spun felt material I had on hand that was pretty absorbent.

If the first basket dripped it dripped onto the 2nd basket and so on. Then it was just a matter of charging it with the grey water each morning and hanging it in a somewhat protected sunny spot. It took care of all my evap needs to the tune of about a gallon a day. Note that I did not have a big kitchen nor a shower to contend with.

After the burn.... the top basket felt material was gross but dry and it went into the trash. The rest of the baskets collapsed and nested together for this years burn. People asked if I was trying to grow petunias.
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Re: Playa Tested Greywater Evaporator

Postby Schtev » Sat Aug 10, 2013 10:10 am

small group + no rinse body soap + spray bottle + small gasoline container + funnel + cheese cloth = fuck evaporators
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Re: Playa Tested Greywater Evaporator

Postby delle » Sat Aug 10, 2013 10:35 am

We can make our own Human Carcass (low water, no rinse, etc. etc.) wash.

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Re: Playa Tested Greywater Evaporator

Postby Schtev » Sat Aug 10, 2013 10:38 am

delle wrote:We can make our own Human Carcass (low water, no rinse, etc. etc.) wash.

Got yer back, buddy!


Mind you, this plan is ENTIRELY HYPOTHETICAL. I won't know how well it actually works until I get there and try it (science!). I've got a guy who's gonna grab some of the rinseless soap and shampoo from an Ontario medical supplies place for me.
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Re: Playa Tested Greywater Evaporator

Postby delle » Sat Aug 10, 2013 10:44 am

How bad can it be? Nothing a little spritz-rinse couldn't clear up if it's residuey.

I'll let you know if you get streaky or anything....
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Re: Playa Tested Greywater Evaporator

Postby FIGJAM » Sat Aug 10, 2013 10:44 am

Practicing at home IS playa prep!!! 8)
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Re: Playa Tested Greywater Evaporator

Postby Schtev » Sat Aug 10, 2013 10:47 am

Good camp mates let each other know when they're getting kinda streaky. :P
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Re: Playa Tested Greywater Evaporator

Postby Lonesomebri » Sat Aug 10, 2013 10:49 am

Got yer back, buddy!


This has always been my fear about the carcass washes....

Set a folding chair up on a tarp and take a sponge bath. What are people cleaning up for anyway?
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Re: Playa Tested Greywater Evaporator

Postby Schtev » Sat Aug 10, 2013 10:50 am

Lonesomebri wrote:
Got yer back, buddy!


This has always been my fear about the carcass washes....

Set a folding chair up on a tarp and take a sponge bath. What are people cleaning up for anyway?


Yeah, I thought of that too. I'm probably gonna bring a cheap ass blue tarp so I can try things like that too and see what works best. Plus having a cheapo tarp while camping is never a bad idea.
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Re: Playa Tested Greywater Evaporator

Postby Captain Goddammit » Sat Aug 10, 2013 11:27 am

I say it every year.... WTF are you all fucking around with pain-in-the-ass evap ponds for? So you have to carry even more materials? So you can have muddy messes? So you can enjoy taking the thing apart at the end and packing it up again?

The standard rule is "Pack It In, Pack It Out". I just bring plastic barrels to dump grey water into, and carry it back out. What? Too heavy? You carried it in!! Is this too simple, easy, and trouble-free?

You're all making this harder than it needs to be.
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Re: Playa Tested Greywater Evaporator

Postby Schtev » Sat Aug 10, 2013 11:31 am

Captain Goddammit wrote:I say it every year.... WTF are you all fucking around with pain-in-the-ass evap ponds for? So you have to carry even more materials? So you can have muddy messes? So you can enjoy taking the thing apart at the end and packing it up again?

The standard rule is "Pack It In, Pack It Out". I just bring plastic barrels to dump grey water into, and carry it back out. What? Too heavy? You carried it in!! Is this too simple, easy, and trouble-free?

You're all making this harder than it needs to be.


Even BMORG is now officially telling people to NOT use evap ponds due to their ineffectiveness. However, their proposed replacement system is a bit..."involved".
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Re: Playa Tested Greywater Evaporator

Postby Captain Goddammit » Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:23 pm

Well no, they give several good options, one of them being exactly what I'm saying.
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Re: Playa Tested Greywater Evaporator

Postby Schtev » Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:31 pm

Captain Goddammit wrote:Well no, they give several good options, one of them being exactly what I'm saying.


The alternative I was referring to was within the evaporation category. Not the other stuff like hauling it out or getting it sucked up or whatever.
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Re: Playa Tested Greywater Evaporator

Postby Schtev » Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:35 pm

Hauling it out and getting it sucked. Hur hur hur. Duuuuuuuuuuur. :mrgreen:
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Re: Playa Tested Greywater Evaporator

Postby GreyCoyote » Sat Aug 10, 2013 1:13 pm

I am REALLY hoping Mulch posts his solution to this problem. Very techie, and very cool. Of course, the playa may not be quite ready for it, but WTF, eh? :) The guys on the ISS would understand!
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Re: Playa Tested Greywater Evaporator

Postby mulch » Sat Aug 10, 2013 3:11 pm

So GreyCoyote is alluding to our camps crazy shower that has a very complicated and robust water purification system that lets us recirculate for an infinate hot sterilized shower. I don't have time to post it now and answer questions and absorb snark, maybe after the burn when it's playa tested.

I'm not sure how much grey water we are going to generate with filter backwashes so I'm bringing some pond liner and wood for a standard setup, but I'm hoping that this does it with a small footprint.

The whole thing fits in the tote. Cheap shelves, sump pump with inline filter, black towel sheets they call them, an interval timer cause the towels get soaked in just a minute or two, and a fan so that the inside surface is an evaporative surface.

Total of 30 square feet and if you get surface area inside and out, x 2
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