Money from ticket sales

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Money from ticket sales

Postby Big Red » Wed Dec 28, 2011 7:49 pm

Wondering where the nearly $19million in ticket sales annually is used???? Does it really cost that much to produce this event?
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Re: Money from ticket sales

Postby Rice » Wed Dec 28, 2011 8:03 pm

Big Red wrote:Wondering where the nearly $19million in ticket sales annually is used???? Does it really cost that much to produce this event?

Well, yes it does. http://afterburn.burningman.com/10/financial_chart.html
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Re: Money from ticket sales

Postby Sham » Wed Dec 28, 2011 8:31 pm

When you build an entire city on a vacant 7 square mile plot, it takes lots of money to make it happen. Rather than using the multiply button to figure how much it is, just look at the cost of the single ticket and figure if that is worth it to you. If you take the tact that you did, try to figure Disney World at $100 per ticket times 500,000 people a day during the peak holiday season, times 7 days.
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Re: Money from ticket sales

Postby Big Red » Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:34 pm

But we're not talking about Disney Land - we're talking about something that says it is about building a self-sustaining, VOLUNTEER based (as apposed to the thousands employed by Disney Land), gift giving participant based community that is not supposed to be about money. I would love to come to this event, but the price of the tickets put me out of the market. I can go to Disney Land for it's intended purpose for about $50 as apposed to the nearly $400 per person this would cost me. Unfortunately added to the lost money from being away from my business that feeds my children and pays my rent, the cost is quite high. I just wondered why the cost is so much when it is NOT supposed to be about money to the founders. I think it is a valid question and I really am just seeking to understand.
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Re: Money from ticket sales

Postby ygmir » Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:53 pm

I'd suggest, some critical thinking,
some research, like reading "after burn" reports, regarding accounting,
some real world experience with doing things, especially on a large scale
reading the terms and conditions of the BLM permit
and losing the resentment, that, you can go to Disneyland for 50 bucks (I think you're way off for a day at DL),
but, you have to pay 40 bucks per day (8 day event x 40 bucks, is closer to the ticket price, depending on the level you get).

A little footwork, on your part, would help you not look such the troll.................
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Re: Money from ticket sales

Postby Savannah » Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:56 pm

All the volunteerism and gift-giving in the world doesn't pay for the usage fees, rental equipment, physical infrastructure, toilets, artist honoraria, law enforcement, medical services, pyrotechnics, fire safety, printing, small equipment, fuel, ticketing, year round employees, etc, etc, that stretch80 linked above.

I know I can't afford to pay for any of those things outright. So a group of fellow nutters & I shell out between $160 and $390 per year to build a city that we get to live in for a week. (And if I break my arm while I'm there, they'll set the bone for free.)

If this is unacceptable, or you're not convinced, don't spend money on the Burn. Don't line the pockets of something you don't trust. There is now more demand for tickets than supply, so no one is going to try to convince you this is all on the up-&-up more than a little bit . . . because darn it, we love it, and we all want tickets.
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Re: Money from ticket sales

Postby knowmad » Thu Dec 29, 2011 1:41 am

It would take at least $400 dollars worth of hookers and blow to put Disneyland on the same level as TTITD.
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Re: Money from ticket sales

Postby Eric » Thu Dec 29, 2011 2:52 am

Big Red wrote:Wondering where the nearly $19million in ticket sales annually is used???? Does it really cost that much to produce this event?


Here's the link to the Afterburn reports from 2001-2010 (the 2011 one isn't done yet, probably won't be for months) showing expenses.

I honestly wouldn't know what to tell you if that's not good enough for you- none of us get paid to work for the event (even though quite a few here are volunteers in varying capacities on the playa; as an FYI all us Mods for the ePlaya are volunteers as well ), I seriously doubt many, if any, of us have access to more information than that. It's plenty of info for me personally, though YMMV.

It's really not up to any of us to convince you, it's up to you to decide where you want to spend your money. If you think your +/- $390 ticket isn't worth the ticket for the week I certainly wouldn't recommend spending it.
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Re: Money from ticket sales

Postby AntiM » Thu Dec 29, 2011 6:18 am

Here's the gate prices for Disneytickets:

http://www.mousesavers.com/dlticketprices.html

You can also buy passes at Costco for the Disney parks, We aren't there yet, are we?
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Re: Money from ticket sales

Postby trilobyte » Thu Dec 29, 2011 7:04 am

Ignorance is not always bliss. From your posts, it appears you really haven't done much reading about the event to learn about the background, or the costs (which as others have mentioned, are detailed in the AfterBurn report). Further, as others have pointed out, you're not even up on your Disney - not only does that theme park carry a higher cost per day, but the costs don't include accommodations. Don't get me wrong, DisneyLand can be a lot of fun and is the perfect vacation if that's the sort of thing you're looking for.
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Re: Money from ticket sales

Postby 5280MeV » Thu Dec 29, 2011 7:26 am

Savannah wrote:All the volunteerism and gift-giving in the world doesn't pay for the usage fees, rental equipment, physical infrastructure, toilets, artist honoraria, law enforcement, medical services, pyrotechnics, fire safety, printing, small equipment, fuel, ticketing, year round employees, etc, etc, that stretch80 linked above.


The toilets alone keep me from complaining about ticket prices. Seriously, at an average ticket price of approx $327, assuming 5k low income tickets, or $47 per day assuming 7 days, I would gladly pay $47 per day to simply not deal with the outright horror of watching 50,000 people at various stages of radical self-reliance trying to pack out their poo while camping at a proximity matching urban population density levels. Hell, I would pay $47 per day to not have to pack out my own poo while on my major vacation for the year.

Aside from toilets, $47 per day does not add up to much.

If I want to go camping at one of my local state parks, say the Smoky Mountains, that is at least $14 per day. If I want to go to the local art museum, that is $10 per day. So there is $24 just for the campsite w/ toilets and art grants to put the sculptures in the playa.

The burns are kind of like shows, so assuming a burn every other day that is essentially logistically provided by the city (CORE, Man, Temple), I could equate this with something like a small $10 show, or $5 per day for burns. Now I am up to $29 dollars.

Riding around on the bus in town costs $5 per day for an all day pass, and even though the city doesn't provide the cars themselves, there is a pretty massive effort to plan and maintain roads, license vehicles, and such, so tack on $5 for safe transport and the cost is up to $34.

Then there is the massive safety, first aid, and mediation infrastructure. Is it worth a remaining $14 per day? Hell yes.

Tickets are still cheap in comparison to the cost of getting across the country to a remote area and setting up even a minimally reasonable camp with food, fun, art/costumes/individualism, and booze.
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Re: Money from ticket sales

Postby jkisha » Thu Dec 29, 2011 8:49 am

Isn't this a sticky? If not it should be. It's been asked and answered adnauseum. :roll:
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Re: Money from ticket sales

Postby ygmir » Thu Dec 29, 2011 8:56 am

jkisha wrote:Isn't this a sticky? If not it should be. It's been asked and answered adnauseum. :roll:


haha, good point.
It amazes me, how people at times feel "entitled" to know, how a private company, makes or handles their profits.
Mostly, no one is compelled, to do business (attend) anywhere.
It's not a "free service" from the government, so, profit is part of the equation.
No one is altruistic enough, to put on something this big, "for the love".
They gotta get paid. They gotta pay others.

What's, so bad about that?
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Re: Money from ticket sales

Postby JayBobBoy » Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:05 am

Wow...the regulars have sure ganged up here.

$400 worth of blow and hookers to last 8 days...don't think so.

4 days at the most. My hookers are really hot, dusty, and hungry. They require upkeep in the desert. Oh wait...was the blow for the hookers, or me?
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Re: Money from ticket sales

Postby Dr. Pyro » Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:06 am

Big Red, let me put it to you in this context: Do not think of it as spending $320 for a party. Think of it as spending $1 for 320 parties. I'll bet you could afford that.
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Re: Money from ticket sales

Postby 48_love » Thu Dec 29, 2011 10:23 am

From what I understand, that Stetson is not cheap ... so, there is that!
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Re: Money from ticket sales

Postby Sassy Britches » Thu Dec 29, 2011 10:45 am

Big Red, I personally don't care what it costs for BMORG to put on the event. As with anything else I have the choice to spend my money on, I look at the price and decide whether it's worth the price for me to buy. In the case of tickets for BM 2012, the answer, for my husband and me, is unequivicallyy YES!
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Re: Money from ticket sales

Postby remi » Thu Dec 29, 2011 10:55 am

Big Red wrote:Wondering where the nearly $19million in ticket sales annually is used???? Does it really cost that much to produce this event?


The answer your looking for is "Yes... yes it does."
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Re: Money from ticket sales

Postby Big Red » Thu Dec 29, 2011 11:22 am

Look people, I am not a troll nor do I expect a detailed accounting of money. I have not been to this event - only talked to some that have and that recommend it. As I have looked into it and from what I understand, the ticket is just the beginning of the expense. I may never get to experience this event because when one is self employed, if one does not work, one does not get paid. my estimation is that it will cost me several thousand dollars to attend this event. Perhaps I was just looking for a way to save a few hundred dollars. Furthermore, don't kid yourself into thinking that the bottom line does not at least partially drive this event. On the reports more than 7 million is spent on salaries - to very few people. They can do what they want - I don't give a fuck, they can make as much money as they want - again, don't give a fuck. However I do believe that the price of the tickets is definitely profit based. And furthermore, I think you are kidding yourself if you don't think the founders are pocketing millions annually.

BTW - based on your responses, you really sound like a bunch of accepting, nice folks that I'd want to spend a week with. Only problem is I'd be worried about a knife in the back or getting murdered in my sleep if I said the wrong thing or asked what you deem to be - the wrong question.

Edited to correct grammar and spelling
Last edited by Big Red on Thu Dec 29, 2011 11:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Money from ticket sales

Postby BBadger » Thu Dec 29, 2011 11:26 am

Big Red wrote:But we're not talking about Disney Land - we're talking about something that says it is about building a self-sustaining, VOLUNTEER based (as apposed to the thousands employed by Disney Land), gift giving participant based community that is not supposed to be about money. I would love to come to this event, but the price of the tickets put me out of the market. I can go to Disney Land for it's intended purpose for about $50 as apposed to the nearly $400 per person this would cost me. Unfortunately added to the lost money from being away from my business that feeds my children and pays my rent, the cost is quite high. I just wondered why the cost is so much when it is NOT supposed to be about money to the founders. I think it is a valid question and I really am just seeking to understand.


Cry. Me. A. Fucking. River.

Fifty dollars to attend Disneyland? Yeah, for a single day and only just to get past the gates to spend 1/3rd of your time waiting in lines. Try spending a whole fucking week at Disneyland and tell me if it is only $50. It's roughly $220 per person for the tickets alone at Disneyland--if you buy a whole week-block at a time. Add $2500 for hotel fees for your family of four. Now factor in travel, food, incidentals, etc. and you're looking at over a thousand bucks per person. The cost of airfare alone will probably cost you more than the ticket to BM.

Burning Man is cheap. Try pricing in terms of the entire trip cost--you know, what grown ups do for their vacations? Do the math. How much would you spend anywhere to stay at the shittiest of motels? About $60/night. Wow, the same price per day for the ticket to BM at $400/ticket. After that, everything you spend is purely to enhance your own experience, and you can live on very little.

Each time I came back from BM I was floored by just how fucking cheap the trip was. I wasn't even trying to be a cheap-ass; it was just fucking cheap to camp out with friends, enjoy the sights, go to a hundred parties--for a fucking week. It cost me less than staying in some damn dorm room for a week when attending a workshop at a university. It was $600 to fly over three states to get there. FUCK THAT. Guess where I would've rather have been? I'm ruined. Every other vacation seems so inferior by comparison.

But hey, if $400 for a week vacation is too much, maybe you should just stay home. The timing, the preconceived impressions, the cost... these are great riff-raff filters. I welcome them all.
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Re: Money from ticket sales

Postby Big Red » Thu Dec 29, 2011 11:28 am

It amazes me, how people at times feel "entitled" to know, how a private company, makes or handles their profits.



I did not ask either of these questions - nor did I imply entitlement to anything. Just asked why the ticket price is so high and if it really costs that much to produce the event.
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Re: Money from ticket sales

Postby Savannah » Thu Dec 29, 2011 11:39 am

No matter where you take a vacation, Big Red, you're going to be away from your business, and if you don't have employees--or anyone able to run it as well as you do, when you go--yes, you would lose a money per day you are gone. This is not unique to the Burner experience. A number of my friends take unpaid time off to Burn. And between travel, ticket and gear, it does indeed usually start at about $1,000-1,200 for the whole experience. No one figures their lost wages into this figure; that's extra. Three of my Burns have used unpaid leave. I was "lucky" to do it; no mortgage, no dependents, no business. On the downside: I have no house, no dependents, and no business. :)

I think you do give a fuck about this, or all your posts wouldn't be on this very topic. I hope you've actually looked at the information supplied, though I don't think that's going to make you feel okay about the whole thing, because ultimately it sounds like the real problem is that: 1) you want to Burn, but 2) it's very inconvenient for your current life. Believe it or not, many of us have been there.

It's okay to be sad about the Burn being expensive, but don't make a conspiracy out of it. A lot of us are pretty much okay with the person who invented Burning Man having money and living a comfortable life. Frankly, I would like him (and his crew) to continue. Larry Harvey's not robbing us blind.

(Airline baggage fees are robbing us blind.)
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Re: Money from ticket sales

Postby ygmir » Thu Dec 29, 2011 11:40 am

Big Red wrote:It amazes me, how people at times feel "entitled" to know, how a private company, makes or handles their profits.



I did not ask either of these questions - nor did I imply entitlement to anything. Just asked why the ticket price is so high and if it really costs that much to produce the event.



how, is that different?
Semantics, only, IMHO.

and, this is in no way, an attack on you, as a person.
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Re: Money from ticket sales

Postby unjonharley » Thu Dec 29, 2011 11:41 am

I do not understand people..

There is only one Burning Man take it or leave it..
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Re: Money from ticket sales

Postby Rice » Thu Dec 29, 2011 11:49 am

Big Red wrote:Look people, I am not a troll nor do I expect a detailed accounting of money. I have not been to this event - only talked to some that have and that recommend it. As I have looked into it and from what I understand, the ticket is just the beginning of the expense. I may never get to experience this event because when one is self employed, if one does not work, one does not get paid. my estimation is that it will cost me several thousand dollars to attend this event. Perhaps I was just looking for a way to save a few hundred dollars. Furthermore, don't kid yourself into thinking that the bottom line does not at least partially drive this event. On the reports more than 7 million is spent on salaries - to very few people. They can do what that want - I don't give a fuck, they can make as much money as they want - again, don't give a fuck. However I do believe that the price of the tickets is definitely profit based. And furthermore, I think you are kidding yourself if you don't think the founders are pocketing millions annually.

BTW - based on your responses, you really sound like a bunch of accepting, nice folks that I'd want to spend a week with. Only problem is I'd be worried about a knife in the back or getting murdered in my sleep if I said the wrong thing or asked what you deem to be - the wrong question.


Big Red, you asked a question that dozens have already asked. So, the regulars here who "responded/reacted" to your question might be beyond politely replying... You are certainly welcome to complain about the ticket costs. or how much you think Larry makes.

Burning Man is not a cheap event to attend. My ticket costs are but a small percentage of my actual costs. Hell, my travel costs alone are between $800-$1200. On average I spend slightly less than $3K per burn.

I have been self-employed for the 5 burns I have attended. I work my ass off to save enough to attend. Let my clients know that I am gone for 3 weeks, pay all my bills and go. Yes, to me, it is worth it.

(ePlaya is not the playa, it is easier to be an asshole on the internet) So, don't let your eplaya experience deter you. There is a lot of good info on ePlaya. google: "eplaya Shade structure" to get some good ideas on what works, what failed, and an idea of cost. After all, one of the principles of Burning Man is Radical SELF-RELIANCE...
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Re: Money from ticket sales

Postby Big Red » Thu Dec 29, 2011 11:54 am

I think you do give a fuck about this, or all your posts wouldn't be on this very topic.


I only signed up yesterday and have only made one post and one comment. So to describe me as ONLY being about this is ridiculous.

I have been reading about structures and other things needed to attend and unfortunately, since I am new and not 'part of a community' I don't think it is feasible for me to attend at this time. I DO have children - 5 of them and I have no husband, I DO have a mortgage, I DO have a business, and I don't have all the necessary gear to go.

However, on the positive side, if I did attend and went 'missing' I have a healthy life insurance policy for my kids.
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Re: Money from ticket sales

Postby Savannah » Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:02 pm

It's not too late to start an introduce yourself thread in the right forum, Big Red. You're welcome to discuss money-saving techniques with us, or otherwise geek out on the Burning Man experience--which some folks do a year or three before they finally attend--but just know that you came in here with guns-a-blazin', with no introduction, criticizing something you have no first-hand experience with, and placing us all on the defensive about something we love. I hope you're not surprised that we didn't care for it. No one called you names, but they felt free to disagree with you, and to show you why.

This is indeed just the internet, and a tiny segment of the Burner population, to boot. It's nothing like the playa, or we would just stay home and save our money. But if you continue demonizing us, it'll probably make you feel better that you're currently not attending, so there's that.


ETA: I have edited your post, so that your quote of me will work. Should you like to stick around, you can turn on your BBCode--so quotes and other tags work--by going into your User Control Panel at the top left, then to "Board Preferences", next to "Posting Defaults", and selecting "Yes" next to "Enable BBcode, and submit.

After that, all you need to do is click "Quote" at the top right of someone's post to quote them and reply to them specifically.

I only signed up yesterday and have only made one post and one comment. So to describe me as ONLY being about this is ridiculous.


It's what you've led with, and the only thing you've talked to us about. So branch out. People would listen to you--& perhaps give a damn--if you tell us about yourself. We know each other here. We fight and we squabble, but we also care about each other, and many of us meet on the playa.
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Re: Money from ticket sales

Postby theCryptofishist » Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:05 pm

stretch80 wrote:Big Red, you asked a question that dozens have already asked. So, the regulars here who "responded/reacted" to your question might be beyond politely replying... You are certainly welcome to complain about the ticket costs. or how much you think Larry makes.

Just irriterating this.
Also, the question ususally come packaged in a whole lot of bs about worth and fairness and are more often than not asked by trolls or in a trollish manner. Too bad you plugged into that energy.
And. I don't know how big pay roll is, but that $7,000,000 isn't just the llc members by a long shot.
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Re: Money from ticket sales

Postby Dr. Pyro » Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:15 pm

I would have bet big money that Big Red was a male. My bad.
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