Lottery System Feedback

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Re: Lottery System Feedback

Postby trilobyte » Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:22 pm

I don't see it as unsportsmanlike or gloating. People posted have posted about getting through or getting tickets during on-sale events in years past, and after tickets sold out those who were able to get tickets sometimes posted about it. I think the intention wasn't to go "nya-nyah I got something you didn't" so much as it was just elation over having gotten the ticket sorted.

We might want to make a single catch-all sticky thread for posting about getting tix, that way it's just a single thread to avoid if hearing other peoples' good news is tough to bear while you're still in limbo.
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Re: Lottery System Feedback

Postby BBadger » Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:14 pm

I picture the gloating like this:

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Re: Lottery System Feedback

Postby Nipple » Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:18 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:I believe that Savannah was not talking about her own ticket(s) but about seeing other regulars get theirs.


I'm always excited to see someone "get theirs".
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Re: Lottery System Feedback

Postby Savannah » Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:01 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:I believe that Savannah was not talking about her own ticket(s) but about seeing other regulars get theirs.


Yes, indeed--for it won't be me. (I didn't register for holiday tickets.)
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Re: Lottery System Feedback

Postby MyDearFriend » Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:41 pm

Savannah wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:I believe that Savannah was not talking about her own ticket(s) but about seeing other regulars get theirs.


Yes, indeed--for it won't be me. (I didn't register for holiday tickets.)


Well I wasn't thinking about other people's behavior :oops: just, damn. How can I happily say, "Oooh I got a ticket!" if my friend didn't?

Did you never hide a good grade when the tests were handed back, geez...

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Re: Lottery System Feedback

Postby BBadger » Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:24 pm

MyDearFriend wrote:Did you never hide a good grade when the tests were handed back, geez...

I know, I know, it's not like we're in kindergarten, where you can't eat a cookie unless you brought enough for everyone...


Me thinks those kids needed to grow some thicker skin.
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Re: Lottery System Feedback

Postby trilobyte » Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:42 pm

What Bbadger said. Your choice whether you'd want to post anything (one way or the other), just as it was in years past (some people can't afford to go if they don't get a low-tier ticket, and those have always been in short supply, plus there was that whole sell out last summer). Again, my advice for anyone who'd be feeling a little 'sour grapes' over it would be to avoid reading the thread (once it's created).
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Re: Lottery System Feedback

Postby Sassy Britches » Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:44 pm

Will be happy for anybody who gets tickets, and I can't think of any friends of ours that would feel like they were being gloated at by any of us jumping for joy with confirmation in hand - rather, they'll be happy too. None of us are too worried about whether we'll get tickets or not, we are confident that if we don't get tickets from the "lotteries" that we are entering, there will be opportunity to get tickets come March. Some of us decided to enter the pre-sale, others didn't. All of us have had such issues to deal with in our lives (daughter with cancer, ill or dying parents, you name it) that we are able to take things like whether we'll get a ticket to BM in stride... and when we start getting wrapped up in the drama, just take a deep breath and smell the bacon :wink:
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Re: Lottery System Feedback

Postby H216scrf » Sat Dec 24, 2011 12:33 am

I'm as anxious as the next person who can't afford the top tier, but I really wish there wasn't such a cost gap between tier 1 and tier 2.

I have been making the pilgrimage to BRC since 2004, but back then it was just me and I lived in northern California. This year my husband and I moved to the east coast, which more than doubles our costs to attend, making it impossible for us to pay for the top tier. We can be able to pay a little more than the Tier 1 price, but the $160 difference for us between tier 1 and 2 is too much on top of transportation of gear and self costs. My feedback would be to have a additional tiers for us people who can and are willing to pay a little more, but just can't quite swing the large price jumps.

Ex. for main sale:
Tier 1 $240 10,000 tickets
Tier 2 $280 8,000 tickets
Tier 3 $320 8,000 tickets
Tier 4 $390 7,000 tickets
Tier 5 $420 7,000 tickets

Anyhow, just my 2 cents on the system chosen this year. I don't really like it, but it is what it is. Just wishing to the Heavens to win a pair of those golden tier 1 tickets and honeymoon in the desert with you all.

Also, and this doesn't apply to me, but it might be nice to have the option to apply for 2 tickets in tier one, or, if you are not awarded any, 1 ticket in tier 2 as a second choice. I think part of the frustration comes from feeling like you're in chance limbo without decision making control at your fingertips. But I digress....
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Re: Lottery System Feedback

Postby trilobyte » Sat Dec 24, 2011 5:17 am

You guys may want to reach out and connect with your regional group, or others in your area. People have been dealing with the costs and logistical issues of coming to the event from the east coast for a lot longer than you've been going to Burning Man, they may be able to help you guys with planning. Good luck!
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Re: Lottery System Feedback

Postby Lassen Forge » Sat Dec 24, 2011 7:58 am

I still like the old way better - this is too damn complicated for us who actually have things going on. Sure, it was a stampede on opening ticket day - get over it. It was part of the tradition - like a Festivus without a pole, or a Christmas without a tree... this is still too damn confusing and IMO a little... I can't think of the word - Controlling, like "You can buy the naming rights to the ticket, we're gonna charge your card on some unannounced date (ha ha ha) and then you don't get the ticket until we say so, on another arbitrary date way off in the future...

I guess if I were raised as a nanny state liberalist who is so bad she only deserves what crumbs the mighty hand down, I'd just shut up and accept those crumbs, and grovel at the feet of the board (who don't worry about these things, as they KNOW they're going)... problem is, while I do work for the man, so to speak, I don't do nanny state liberalist with a guilt/undeserving complex well.

Now I have to make sure I go on to register for the overdraft-my-account lottery (who has an extra grand they can just leave in the bank in this era?) during the specified week, not knowing which tier I got nor when I will get said papers I purchased all those months ago... It also takes the fun and camaderie of waiting for opening, waiting for your turn to come up, andknowing you had a ticket and knowing when the $$$ came out of your account. It's like deciding the man will be made of recycled aluminum instead, and burn alcohol sprayed from jets, and you can pick up your official 3.2 ounce bag of ash from the ash desk at where the man was disassembled the night before - sorry, only one per customer, so everyone gets some. Oh yeah, to make environmentalists happy, the ash has been recycled from local power plants that are being shelved...

Sorry...
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Re: Lottery System Feedback

Postby EspressoDude » Sat Dec 24, 2011 9:24 am

:( does this mean we won't see you in the desert this year? :(
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Re: Lottery System Feedback

Postby BBadger » Sun Dec 25, 2011 6:12 am

H216scrf wrote:We can be able to pay a little more than the Tier 1 price, but the $160 difference for us between tier 1 and 2 is too much on top of transportation of gear and self costs.


... being "too much" implies that you should not attend BM at all in the first place, because it is a luxury vacation that your hand-to-mouth financials cannot--not should-not--tolerate.

Bay Bridge Sue wrote:Now I have to make sure I go on to register for the overdraft-my-account lottery (who has an extra grand they can just leave in the bank in this era?) during the specified week, not knowing which tier I got nor when I will get said papers I purchased all those months ago...


Why would your account be overdrafted if you're paying with a credit card? Or are you using a debit card, which has no benefit over a credit card?

Don't get me wrong, I liked the old way better too! It conferred me more advantages in ticket tiers.
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Re: Lottery System Feedback

Postby Zhust » Sun Dec 25, 2011 4:13 pm

I don't like how the tiers work, and I did some analysis and presented an alternative in another thread.

The way it worked out — based on the way triolobyte explained it is that you are nearly guaranteed a ticket if you are willing to pay at the highest tier.

If there are fewer than 10,000 orders for tickets in the lottery, then ordering at Tier 1 would guarantee a ticket (everybody will get a Tier 1 ticket regardless of the maximum tier they specified), and if fewer than 25,000 orders, then ordering up to Tier 2 would guarantee a ticket. If it's between 25,000 and 40,000 tickets ordered in the lottery, then ordering up to Tier 3 would guarantee a ticket.

I don't have access to the distribution of when people try to buy their tickets, but I seem to remember about 2/3 get sold early and the remaining 1/3 over the rest of the year. If that holds and, say, 50,000 people want tickets, that's 33,000 tickets sold during the lottery, so ordering at Tier 3 would guarantee a ticket. By my analysis, if you ordered at Tier 2, your odds would be at least 75% (the more orders at Tier 1, the better your odds).

If, though, 50,000 tickets are ordered, your odds of getting a ticket are 20% if you order at Tier 1, 50%-57% at Tier 2, and 80%-100% at Tier 3.

So my advice is for everyone to order tickets at Tier 1 so I'm guaranteed of getting a ticket. Thanks for your assistance in this matter.
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Re: Lottery System Feedback

Postby BBadger » Mon Dec 26, 2011 2:45 am

I have no worries about actually getting a ticket. I just want a cheaper ticket so I can allocate funds more on the burn and less on the ticket.
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Re: Lottery System Feedback

Postby Mosquitopilate » Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:17 pm

Listen I know to some of this is a hassle or a bit high $ priced but if I had to pick a place on this planet to pay around 400 $ and play the waiting game
the place is BurningMan...My God People Sometimes change is good. I know one thing I will be there lottery or not I will find a ticket if I am not picked.
Enjoy this great place and take advantage of meeting really awesome people,cause someday the default world will try to take it away or try anyways
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Re: Lottery System Feedback

Postby Theres Always One » Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:33 pm

ChefDave wrote:I'm not quite clear on who BMORG is trying to provide an "equal opportunity" for to buy tickets, maybe someone could clue me in....

I see problems with the roulette approach to hitting credit/debit accounts for lots and lots of people out there. In case BMORG hasn't noticed, things are tough in the economy. I know people who live hand to mouth and struggle to get money together to buy tickets, then do it again to actually get to the event. The proposed system places undue financial stress on those who simply do not have the ability to keep money in the bank until they find out how much tickets are actually going to cost them. Even the relatively short period from Jan 22 to Feb 1 may preclude many long time Burners from getting tickets that they can afford.


When someone enters the lottery, they have the option to choose the highest price ticket they are willing to pay. Everyone who enters the lottery knows that their credit card will be charged between Jan 22 - Feb 3. In your world, if someone enters the lottery on Jan 9 and then they don't budget to have the funds available on Jan 22, it is not their fault but the BMORGs. Think about this: The very same person buys a ticket to Burning Man in a regular on sale on Jan 10th. They have now purchased their ticket and the money is gone. What do they do if they have an unexpected expense and now they don't have the money because they bought a burning man ticket? hmm?

ChefDave wrote:I believe that I create my "equal opportunity" to buy tickets because on "sale day", I'm sitting in front of my computer ready to hit the "buy now" button to get those cheap tickets AND I know how much money I have to spend on that given day as opposed to an "on or before Feb 1 award". Now lets suppose that another charge hits my debit card 5 minutes before BMORG decides to "award" me tickets and I end up being $5 short of their charge and my greedy financial institution denies the charge. I'm kinda screwed, no? I may have to wait until March to see if I get tickets. I would rather put in my time, get in the queue and wait it out for that immediate gratification of buying my tickets that day.


Then wait until March. That is what its there for.

ChefDave wrote: No matter what anyone thinks, the scalpers are going to be in on the game from the get go and will be taking as many tickets as they can in anticipation of the event selling out. A professional scalper will gave several credit/debit cards and several different mailing addresses to send those tickets to. What professional scalpers DON't have is the ability to sit in front of the computer all day (if that's what it takes) until the queue gets to them. The way to stop scalpers is to appeal to the Burner community to do the right thing and not support the scalpers, or sell their extra tickets for face value thereby enforcing the ideals of the community which in turn makes Burningman a successful venture for all.


" the scalpers are going to be in on the game from the get go and will be taking as many tickets as they can in anticipation of the event selling out"
You don't know this.

ChefDave wrote:I do not see that the proposed system offers any particular benefit to the long time citizens of Black Rock City, but I DO see unnecessary stress and inconvenience to many who have supported the event with their participation over the years. If people want to attend the event, let them buy tickets early and not procrastinate. When the event sells out, it is sold out, sorry, that's just the way things work. If I can put in the time and effort to get my ticket early, then I should reap the benefits of that effort and not be subjected to the additional stress and expense caused by those who cannot put forth a similar effort.


You putting in your time and effort to get tickets early through a regular on sale is subject to just as much "chance" as a lottery. Because in your world, "the scalpers are going to be in on the game from the get go and will be taking as many tickets as they can in anticipation of the event selling out" which means the ticket selling site will be completely overwhelmed. You've got your act together and you "get there" early and then you wait in line for 9 hours for a ticket. The site says, "there are 100 people in front of you" and you think "I'm next! Yay!" Then your internet connection goes down, or your power goes out. And you lost your place in line and now its sold out. What do you do then?

Look, I go to many high profile concerts per year. Many of them sell out in seconds. And many of them are subject to scalping, ticket bots, and the such. I know its frustrating. But, I doubt many burners are familiar with the cold harsh world of scalping and high profile events. The lottery is the best solution for us. Learn it, love it, live it.
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