2011 MOOP Map Live

Talk about your camp or project's LNT plans (and MOOP problems) here. Ask questions or share ideas on what works and what doesn't.

Re: 2011 MOOP Map Live

Postby jkisha » Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:09 pm

trilobyte wrote:Not in my mind, especially seeing how green that map was as it filled in, and seeing how great a job the restoration crew was doing. Thank goodness they did, otherwise we would have failed it based on the Bass Camp site (one of the sample sites the BLM inspected) alone.

I have to say, I really enjoyed The Hun's posts. Did a great job documenting what was going on, as well as informing us about best practices and different kinds of MOOPy problems. Even though our camp scored well again this year, I feel like I learned a lot and will have to try and remember to come back and re-read in the spring.


Totally agree. Seeing the progress along with the tips made it more interesting than past years and also gave you reasons a camp might have gotten less than a perfect score. Also, if you can grab an earth guardian out there, they are happy to go over your camp with you and explain all the things that need to be done too. Quite the education.
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Re: 2011 MOOP Map Live

Postby junglesmacks » Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:09 am

This picture of the final haul gives me chills. Check out all of the chemical glowsticks in there..

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Re: 2011 MOOP Map Live

Postby lemur » Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:26 am

i figured most of that glowstick looking moop was surveying flags..

tons of those end up in yer moop bucket if yer cleaning up a bigger camp
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Re: 2011 MOOP Map Live

Postby junglesmacks » Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:32 am

It just stuck with me since I saw it thinking about the metric tons of unrecyclable glowsticks that are trashed as a byproduct of the event each year. There has to be a way to cut back on that.. has to.

I vote next year we find a way to get at very least a notice sent out via JRS asking people to please NOT bring any type of chemical glowstick this year, with help on what else to bring.. ie LED light sticks, etc.

I know that's like pissing on a bonfire and expecting to put it out, but at least it's something. It just kills me..
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Re: 2011 MOOP Map Live

Postby MOOP_Czar » Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:43 am

AHEM...

If it is added to the same official list as feathers, then chemical glow sticks could supplent boas as enemy number one.

Nah, I hate Boas too much..

But they would make a close second.
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Re: 2011 MOOP Map Live

Postby trilobyte » Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:52 am

Metric tons? I don't think glows ticks are as big a problem out there as you think. From what DA said at Decom last weekend, wood chips and sawdust were a much, much bigger problem. Granted, >any< trace is less than ideal, but if there's a big drive for awareness next year I suspect that wood will be the focus.
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Re: 2011 MOOP Map Live

Postby junglesmacks » Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:55 am

Nah I know.. not metric tons. I'm being dramatic.

..but seriously.. if we had to guess the displacement of all the chemical glowsticks used at TTITD in one year.. what would you put it at? I would venture to say.. easily about 6-7 pickup truck bedfulls.

Maybe more?


I'm not talking about the MOOPed glowsticks, I'm talking all combined. Notwithstanding where there go, it just sucks that even in a landfill we have to fill that much more of our earth with them and can't do anything about it.
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Re: 2011 MOOP Map Live

Postby MOOP_Czar » Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:01 am

I think I am going to drop $50 on 50 of these things to use as a way to gather as many of the chemical ones as I can. If there are even 500 left on the playa and you figure that each perrson has multiple glow sticks due to the duration of the reaction, maybe "trading" 50 LED units will help put a dent in that? I found a site where these LED jobbies are only marginally more expensive than their chemical bretheren and last 10x longer per battery set. At $1 each - I am willing to try.

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Re: 2011 MOOP Map Live

Postby Bob » Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:15 am

trilobyte wrote:Metric tons? I don't think glows ticks are as big a problem out there as you think. From what DA said at Decom last weekend, wood chips and sawdust were a much, much bigger problem. Granted, >any< trace is less than ideal, but if there's a big drive for awareness next year I suspect that wood will be the focus.


Shirley, by "problem" he means whatever takes more time to clean up. Tiny bits like wood waste, glass shards, foam board shavings, bark, leaves, etc. take much more time than wads of glow sticks, and the crew is less likely to catch every last scrap.

If the problem they're flagging is sawdust, I'm guessing most gets deposited during the early-entry period, so maybe it's those people they need to hit over the head.
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Re: 2011 MOOP Map Live

Postby junglesmacks » Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:59 am

MOOP_Czar wrote:I think I am going to drop $50 on 50 of these things to use as a way to gather as many of the chemical ones as I can. If there are even 500 left on the playa and you figure that each perrson has multiple glow sticks due to the duration of the reaction, maybe "trading" 50 LED units will help put a dent in that? I found a site where these LED jobbies are only marginally more expensive than their chemical bretheren and last 10x longer per battery set. At $1 each - I am willing to try.


Exactamaly. The cheapest I've found on those sticks is here.

I brought about 20 of this this year and gifted them away to darkwads on the way by. The problem with convincing people to use those instead of the chemical ones is that the long, skinny glowsticks are bendable and more "playful" to some people. Hell.. I remember this last year seeing one lady at the beginning of a night that had literally like 50 of them bent into little rings looped all over her clothes and bag. I remember thinking.. FML.. those things are going to pop off one by one all..over..the..playa as she parties. My first year.. I was a sinner, it's true. I brought those godforsaken things and looped them on my backpack for attempted non-darkwad status, and sure enough.. by morning time a couple were gone. MOOP.

I hang my head in shame, but have since changed my MOOPy ways. I will accept 20 cyber lashes.
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Re: 2011 MOOP Map Live

Postby BBadger » Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:13 am

Forgive me MOOP Czar, but I have a show-trial confession to make...

I bought about 10 of these, and while I still think they're cool, they have no power switch. So to save "power" (and to relieve my eyes from their annoying blink) I would unscrew the light from the battery compartment ever so slightly to shut it off.

Well, in the course of walking, riding, etc. the bottom half would fall off, leaving MOOP on the playa, and not just the diffuser part, but those tiny AG3 batteries that powered the damn thing.

Happened many times.

I'm still going to buy them, but I'll be affixing some electrical tape on them so they don't pop off.

For buying LED sticks, make sure you choose them with higher quality straps. Some are just awful and will fall off. The one you depicted there have really annoying thin ribbon strings. Ones like these are better, with a more "shoelace" variety. The ones I mentioned before that would fall off are actually quite well constructed except for lacking a power button.

All in all, I'm not sure if these sticks will really help. I was giving people lights during the week (until about Thursday when the bulk of DARKTARDOM arrived), but was later wondering if those people who thought to not bring lights in the first place would have the responsibility to properly dispose of their sticks or finger lights.

Perhaps a better method would be to walk up to people with glow sticks or glow tubes and ask them if they'd like to trade their faded pieces of shit for a new light, instruct them about how shitty those glow sticks and things are, and then tell them that if they run out of batteries to go by your camp to trade old batteries for some new ones (I bought some odd 100 spares from Amazon). Might be a nice way to go.

Oh yeah, a good anti-MOOPy, less annoying blink system is to put the blinking light inside the backpack or pocket, so that it blinks, but isn't super bright and has no place to fall if it breaks off. Helps with people who are wearing such things though.
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Re: 2011 MOOP Map Live

Postby MOOP_Czar » Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:04 am

The ones I posted the video to are actually $1 a pop and have switches.

If you would like the link, pm me and I will get it to you!!
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Re: 2011 MOOP Map Live

Postby BBadger » Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:28 pm

MOOP_Czar wrote:The ones I posted the video to are actually $1 a pop and have switches.

If you would like the link, pm me and I will get it to you!!


Oh I could get them cheap at Extremeglow, but like I said, the ribbon-strings on that particular model suck ass. I'd get the other glow-sticks instead because they're better built, roughly the same size, and cost the same.
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Re: 2011 MOOP Map Live

Postby MOOP_Czar » Fri Oct 14, 2011 3:11 pm

Got it - misunderstood what you meant by ribbons.

I like the link and will likely be going for those.

Appreciate it!
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Thoughts on this moop thread

Postby Igneouss » Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:47 am

Moop team: WELL DONE! You save our collective bacon yet again.

Sound camps/BLACK/etc: I saw some posts that seemed to imply that the red and black sound camps should not be held to the same standard as other camps. That's some whiney bullshit if I ever heard any. If you are not prepared to clean up your mess then find another game to play. Clear? You are in a line of work that attracts the least ethical burners in larger numbers. You know that going in. Cope. Sheesh and shame on you.

Wood chips/sawdust: We can't ban cutting/drilling on the playa but we sure can police it better. I imagine some strong advice comming out of the BMorg prior to 2012 on this issue. This stuff is virtually impossible to clean up. Planners need a 100% effective plan in place prior to construction. No hope after the fact.

Crawdads/gumbo: Eesh! Somebody had to see that comming. Invisible moop...

Moop after the fact: Serveral folks commented that they left camps clean only to get dinged for moop that was likely deposited after they left. I know some of these people and trust their word. What to do? I'd consider spending a few minutes photo documenting mooping efforts and a clean site. Obviously this won't protect for every eventuallity but it can't hurt to be able to show the BMorg a small slideshow of one's efforts in the event you find yourself on the wrong side of the placement team.

LESSONS (for me anyway)

Somebody has absolutely got to critique all camp plans in advance with moop in mind. Will lumber be cut? Are you serving thousands of playa colored shrimp at night? Will your camp attract thousands of less-moop-sensitve ravers? Will moop likely be sread beyond you camp footprint? Are your exhausted campers prepared to de-moop the place before leaving town? Will the hair stay on all those Barbies? (add your camp's specific moop issues here).

It seems like the negative highlights of this year's moop map can all be put down to lack of rational advance planning and follow-through.
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Re: 2011 MOOP Map Live

Postby jkisha » Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:20 am

I like the idea of photo documenting how your camp looked when you left. We got dinged one year when someone left two garbage bags full of trash in our space after we left.
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Re: 2011 MOOP Map Live

Postby trilobyte » Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:47 am

@Igneouss - several camps did complain about getting dinged for other people's MOOP, but that's just their guess (or denial). I've talked to DA (head of playa restoration, the team doing that work and making the MOOP map), and had asked him about camps that get penalized for another camp's MOOP by mistake. It would take another camp coming to their site and setting up a heavily used workshop or intentionally using their site as a dumping ground for that to happen. Random blown bits aren't enough to affect a camp's score. As for the call to critique all camp plans, like most 'somebody should do something' suggestions, I think it's an impractical amount of bureaucracy. The placement team reviews camp plans (including LNT plans) for the registered theme camps, and it takes months. However that makes up much less than half of the camps on the playa, most of which have no plans. Trying to require LNT plans of all camps would probably require more manpower and time than goes into the task of raising awareness and cleaning up the playa (both of which appear to be working - things have been improving steadily since they began).

@jkisha - having stayed until Tuesday or even Wednesday on a few occasions, the behavior I see happening isn't someone taking bags of garbage or debris and putting them at someone else's camp, but people getting a case of 'fuckits' and just abandoning the site without finishing the job or taking it all with them. Campmates taking pics on a cleanup crew can be a great idea, both to show the job got done and for the people sticking around to document some of the 'wtf' moments they encounter (particularly with a larger camp). I think the LNT teams did photo document their finds this year, but I think that was for their own internal purposes and I'm not sure if those pictures will get posted publicly at some point.
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Re: 2011 MOOP Map Live

Postby lemur » Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:11 am

dunno if its still done but i remember seeing a interactive dpw map that had photos of all the hotspots and big items..

maybe 2008 ?
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Re: 2011 MOOP Map Live

Postby scorcher » Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:29 pm

Does anybody know where the 2011 final moop map was posted? You know, the hi-res version that lets you zoom in to see your camp?

Someone posted a mediafire link for an unofficial version but that link is dead. I've scoured the site looking for the official map and I can't find it.

A little help?

Thanks!
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Re: 2011 MOOP Map Live

Postby lemur » Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:44 pm

here scorcher:

http://burningblog.s3.amazonaws.com/wp- ... Y-NINE.gif


(fyi this was result #3 on a google search for "2011 final moop map" (without quotes) just if youre wondering how i got it)
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Re: 2011 MOOP Map Live

Postby Just_Joe » Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:51 pm

scorcher wrote:Does anybody know where the 2011 final moop map was posted? You know, the hi-res version that lets you zoom in to see your camp?
Someone posted a mediafire link for an unofficial version but that link is dead. I've scoured the site looking for the official map and I can't find it.
A little help?
Thanks!

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Re: 2011 MOOP Map Live

Postby Canoe » Sat Feb 11, 2012 12:22 am

Monday cleanup saw many people making delivery after delivery of wood out in front of center camp for several hours, getting burned (wood to Habitat For Humanity?) on the playa .
How does that get cleaned up.
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Re: 2011 MOOP Map Live

Postby lemur » Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:18 am

former man base and former temple base may end up being used as a public burn pyre in some cases in some years (if it is safe to do so and the fires remain contained)

there are also many many metal/constructed public burn pyres that get going on sunday..

i think burning man encourages people to take ashes home.. but i dont see that happening while the fires are-a-raging..
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Re: 2011 MOOP Map Live

Postby trilobyte » Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:33 am

We stayed late and visited each of the locations. The man-pyre becomes something of a public burn site (especially since most burn platforms reached capacity by Monday), but the same rules apply. We didn't pedal out to the temple pyre until Monday evening, but by then the fire had reduced to a minimum and the temple crew were busy with magnetic rakes and shovels. Burners without borders can only take certain kinds of wood. After we finished our disassembly (and removed any screws) we took our untreated/unpainted wood out to the dropoff point at 9 o'clock (though I'm sure there are others) and were able to give them about half of what we had. The rest went to the man-pyre.
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Re: 2011 MOOP Map Live

Postby Fiver » Sat Feb 11, 2012 2:29 pm

scorcher wrote:Does anybody know where the 2011 final moop map was posted? You know, the hi-res version that lets you zoom in to see your camp?

Someone posted a mediafire link for an unofficial version but that link is dead. I've scoured the site looking for the official map and I can't find it.

A little help?

Thanks!



I'll repost the mega giant .tiff I created Monday. It's on my work machine.
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Re: 2011 MOOP Map Live

Postby Fiver » Sat Feb 11, 2012 3:21 pm

Three cheers for remote computing! Here's the final super sized moop map overlay.

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?9gb9hbub01bdq17
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Re: 2011 MOOP Map Live

Postby scorcher » Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:17 am

Awesome! Thanks!
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Re: 2011 MOOP Map Live

Postby scorcher » Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:23 am

lemur wrote:here scorcher:

http://burningblog.s3.amazonaws.com/wp- ... Y-NINE.gif


(fyi this was result #3 on a google search for "2011 final moop map" (without quotes) just if youre wondering how i got it)


Thanks, lemur. I found that as well. Fiver hooked me up with the hi-res version I was searching for. The image you linked to didn't allow me to really see our camp's area in detail to know how we did in the final analysis.
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Re: 2011 MOOP Map Live

Postby Canoe » Sun Feb 12, 2012 8:45 pm

I do love the overlay. Shows the types of areas around a camp that are vulnerable. And the discussion following along with the live updates was invaluable in understanding how to lower MOOP. Thanks!
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Re: 2011 MOOP Map Live

Postby Fiver » Mon Feb 13, 2012 12:47 am

Next year maybe a crowd sourced "Street View" option in the high res map along with the moop map overlay. Just drive all the streets on Saturday with a home made 360 degree camera and stitching software.
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